2021-2022 Astros Offseason Thread

[HtownHorn 14,672]

1 hour ago, UTexasFight said:

Not matching 3/ 105 with opt outs is

Why would you want any part of this drama for the next 3 offseaons? Correa is never going to be satisfied with anything less than his 10 year deal that no MLB franchise wants to give him because he has major injury issues attached to him.

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

Just now, HtownHorn said:

What doesn't make sense to you? That the Astros are spending money on their pitching staff over 1 position player that they were able to replace with McCormick and Meyers last year for pennies on the dollar? That's how the Astros have been to 5 straight ALCS. They make smart financial decisions. 

No- that the Astros are spending money on fungible players that are easily replaced by guys within the organization as opposed to championship tested talent that has performed under the brightest of lights. 
I’m the Lone Ranger on this. Ok. Cool. Hook ‘Em. I will check back in to giveaway about $4000 worth of seats this year regular season. Hopefully we go to the World Series again and I can give away another $5k worth of tickets like last year. Watch for that coming up. 
Enjoy. 
I’m in wait and see mode. Hope I’m in eat crow mode and not told you so mode at the end of 2024. 

[tx 3 putt 76,880]

5 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

What doesn't make sense to you? That the Astros are spending money on their pitching staff over 1 position player that they were able to replace with McCormick and Meyers last year for pennies on the dollar? That's how the Astros have been to 5 straight ALCS. They make smart financial decisions. Keep your trolling shit on clutchfans.

with LMJ's status up in the air, the odorizzi insurance signing is looking good 

[David Dennison 18,851]

 

[Ojo Rojo 1,959]

This hurts, no doubt.  I loved CC.  Thought he was really tough and a good leader.  He stuck up for the team during the sign stealing scandal and I'll always respect him for that.  I'll also always love him for the homer against the bitch Joe Kelly.

My takeaway is this:  Carlos did what he wanted under the circumstances.  Obviously no team offered him the 10/350 deal he wanted. My theory on why that offer never came is the risk due to injury history. So he kept his powder dry and his options open.  He's betting on himself. Can't fault the guy for that. The numbers should have been very doable for the Astros, but the opt outs were a bridge too far, I'm guessing.  I honestly don't blame the team.  I wouldn't want to be playing that guessing game every year.  How can you possibly plan for the future that way?

[HtownHorn 14,672]

12 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

with LMJ's status up in the air, the odorizzi insurance signing is looking good 

Exactly, despite Wulaw's consternation over Odorizzi, he was a good signing. If he pitches towards his career norms with a complete ST to gear up for the season, it's a dynamite signing.

[David Dennison 18,851]

So, who do we want?

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/starting-pitcher/available/

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

So, who do we want?

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/starting-pitcher/available/

Javier. Or Brown. Or Forest. Or Bielak. Or some combination of all of the above. 

[David Dennison 18,851]

Yeah, I think we're done with starting pitching until the deadline.

[David Dennison 18,851]

Let's move to hitters.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/batters/available/

[tx 3 putt 76,880]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Yeah, I think we're done with starting pitching until the deadline.

 

we have arms that need to be figured out. starting rotation is anchored down.

[Scraps 13,561]

Lets just top off this great weekend by signing Brett Gardner

Who is with me???

[David Dennison 18,851]

7 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

we have arms that need to be figured out. starting rotation is anchored down.

JV, Framber, Urquidy, Garcia, ????

[Starfleet Command 441]

21 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Exactly, despite Wulaw's consternation over Odorizzi, he was a good signing. If he pitches towards his career norms with a complete ST to gear up for the season, it's a dynamite signing.

He was terrible for most of last year and had a contract where we couldn’t afford to pitch him.  Had it not been for Lance’s issues they probably would have been forced to shop him by eating some of his salary or adding a prospect. 

[HtownHorn 14,672]

2 minutes ago, Starfleet Command said:

He was terrible for most of last year and had a contract where we couldn’t afford to pitch him.  Had it not been for Lance’s issues they probably would have been forced to shop him by eating some of his salary or adding a prospect. 

Terrible? He pitched to 1.1 WAR for $10M dollars. And that's with him missing almost the entire spring training. You have a weird definition of terrible.

[Hank Chinaski 6,314]

18 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Let's move to hitters.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/batters/available/

I like Conforto as a hitter but not sure he fits with this roster. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

19 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

JV, Framber, Urquidy, Garcia, ????

Javier would be my preference. Absent him Odo. Bielak or Brown or one of the other AAA guys could probably give you replacement level or a little better. Whitley should be ready by end of May and he still has star upside. There are lots of options for a 5th guy beyond signing a “proven veteran” off the scrap heap. 
 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Wulaw Horn

[HtownHorn 14,672]

20 minutes ago, Hank Chinaski said:

I like Conforto as a hitter but not sure he fits with this roster. 

Him or Soler. Soler with the Braves would be awesome. Power and walks. Tucker can play CF for a season.

[Hank Chinaski 6,314]

1 minute ago, HtownHorn said:

Him or Soler. Soler with the Braves would be awesome. Power and walks. Tucker can play CF for a season.

I think so. A Brantley/Tucker/Conforto OF would be pretty bad defensively. But maybe not disastrous. And I imagine he could be had for a 1 or 2 year deal, which the Astros like. 

[htown85 159]

Soler

[HtownHorn 14,672]

I wonder when the Astros are going to play their regular players. Outside of Verlander, as any projected 26 man rostered player appeared in a ST game so far?

[OB3 3,608]

3 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

I wonder when the Astros are going to play their regular players. Outside of Verlander, as any projected 26 man rostered player appeared in a ST game so far?

I think they said Tuesday

[clapclapclap 9,000]

Tuesday is when we beat the birds.

Edited March 19, 2022 by clapclapclap
Oops, Cards are Wed, Tue is the Mets. Idiot scheduler.

[HtownHorn 14,672]

3 minutes ago, OB3 said:

I think they said Tuesday

Thank you. Big ST for Pena.

Edited March 19, 2022 by HtownHorn

[Macklemore 2,876]

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Lunhow drafted Lance and Correa when that wasn’t obvious (very shrewdly and sort of pioneered how to get the deal done for 1/1 under value and then get a bonus hard to sign guy out of it), traded for JV, traded for Greinke, signed Morton, extended Altuve for peanuts, traded for Yordan, raped Minny in the Presley deal and oversaw just an incredible talent development program that tuned 5 figure Latin American afterthought signees into important pieces that extended our championship window. He was awesome. 

To your point this is really the first year we will see Clicks imprint on the team in a big way. It’s his decisions now that inform over half the roster (extending LMJ, re-signing Brantley, most of the bullpen, re-signing JV, Odorizzi, re-doing Maldonado, giving the job to kids in CF and SS) etc, keeping powder dry for whatever he’s going to do at the trade deadline. 

The jury is completely out on him and he’s certainly working from a vastly different starting point than Lunhow was. What Lunow did was absolutely remarkable. Click has a different set of circumstances no doubt. He also inherited a team with a ton of talent and not a single bad contract though, so it’s not like he’s been handicapped in some way. It’s becoming his to own. 

Fire Click and bring Luhnow back. What is Manfred going to do with Cora managing the Red Sox. Get the architect of greatness back.

[HtownHorn 14,672]

4 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Fire Click and bring Luhnow back. What is Manfred going to do with Cora managing the Red Sox. Get the architect of greatness back.

Crane ain't bringing him back after he sued MLB. Click has been the GM for 2 seasons and the Astros have been to game 7 of the ALCS and game 6 of the WS. Throwing away money on Springer and Correa is not how you keep competing for pennants.

Edited March 19, 2022 by HtownHorn

[Murfdogg21 4,412]

12 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

Tuesday is when we beat the birds.

[tx 3 putt 76,880]

31 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Thank you. Big ST for Pena.

[Macklemore 2,876]

I’m going to be sick

[Js1 85,299]

Your knock off jersey is too tight. Cutting off oxygen to your brain 

[Macklemore 2,876]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Your knock off jersey is too tight. Cutting off oxygen to your brain 

Schwab confirmed it

 

[texashorne 1,177]

2 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

I’m going to be sick

I'd pause before believing this shit. the media knew nothing through this whole process.. For months, the Twins never came up, and 3 year contract certainly never came up. 

If you ask me this is a just another media guy punishing the Astros FO for not giving him any information, so now the smear campaign is on. 

 

[LCHorn 2,615]

3 hours ago, texashorne said:

 

The sky isn't falling. We are the Kansas City Chiefs of the MLB. Were going to be good for a damn long time.  

Haha, now you’ve truly doomed us!

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

3 hours ago, texashorne said:

I think you need to have more faith in Jim Crane. Maybe we have an owner, finally, who isn't a "window" guy. Maybe our window is always open like the Yankees. We all grew up on lifetime Astros Biggio and Bagwell and I think we long for that lifetime player devotion that we learned from them. In reality, baseball isn't like that anymore. 

We now have Jim Crane who wants to win and knows how to structure a winning organization. Also, there 12 teams making the playoffs from now on. The hottest team out of that 12 come October will win it all. He has done nothing to make me believe he won't put a winner out there. 

The sky isn't falling. We are the Kansas City Chiefs of the MLB. Were going to be good for a damn long time.  

This. This talk of "windows" is seeming less and less applicable, esp with our Cuban signings and minor league development program. We are excelling at making major leaguers out of unheralded prospects. We are over that draft pick hump. And is there any reason there might not be a Beltran / Big Unit level rental at the deadline this year? 

13 minutes ago, texashorne said:

I'd pause before believing this shit. the media knew nothing through this whole process.. For months, the Twins never came up, and 3 year contract certainly never came up. 

If you ask me this is a just another media guy punishing the Astros FO for not giving him any information, so now the smear campaign is on. 

 

Yeah, this reeks of bullshit. What would be the point? 

[LCHorn 2,615]

I think the message here is that they’d far rather have Pena at the major league minimum and in 2023 and 2024.  It’s hard to judge passing on Correa without seeing how that money gets spent elsewhere during that period (it would be interesting to see who is slated to be a free agent after the season).

[tx 3 putt 76,880]

8 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

esp with our Cuban signings and minor league development program.

 

sign as many cubans as possible and keep funding the minor league program to the max

[HtownHorn 14,672]

27 minutes ago, texashorne said:

I'd pause before believing this shit. the media knew nothing through this whole process.. For months, the Twins never came up, and 3 year contract certainly never came up. 

If you ask me this is a just another media guy punishing the Astros FO for not giving him any information, so now the smear campaign is on. 

 

How is this punishing the FO? They had moved on and rightfully so, Correa turned down $32M to play for a WS contending team.

[David Dennison 18,851]

At least the Astros are up front about their philosophy. I like that.

[Beau Vine 54,209]

Why did Pena play so few games last season?

[Snake Diggity 4,620]

10 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Why did Pena play so few games last season?

He got hurt.  Hand/wrist if I recall.

[Snake Diggity 4,620]

Too many unknowns to really judge Correa or the front office.  In the absence of details, I’m inclined to give Crane the benefit of the doubt; he’s earned that.

Astros project to a 86% chance of winning their division and they have ~$30M under the tax threshold.  They’re in good shape.

[Beau Vine 54,209]

4 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

He got hurt.  Hand/wrist if I recall.

AAA numbers are really good if they're after the wrist injury, since those tend to linger.

[DallasGatr 216]

the back end of that springer contract is going to be ugly 

The front end hasn’t looked too hot so far…..

[HtownHorn 14,672]

5 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

AAA numbers are really good if they're after the wrist injury, since those tend to linger.

They are, and continued to play well in the DWL. If he can be somewhere between AAA and DWL offensively, he's going to be a very good MLB player because his defense is supposed to be excellent.

[Ojo Rojo 1,959]

13 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

Too many unknowns to really judge Correa or the front office.  In the absence of details, I’m inclined to give Crane the benefit of the doubt; he’s earned that.

Astros project to a 86% chance of winning their division and they have ~$30M under the tax threshold.  They’re in good shape.

Do you think it was the injury history that prevented Correa from getting the deal he wanted?  Is playing another year or two or three for Minnesota going to change the view of his injury history?

What do they do with that $30M? Use it now (and on what)? Save it for the trade deadline to stack a contending team? Don't spend it, period? Hookers and blow?

[Snake Diggity 4,620]

5 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

Do you think it was the injury history that prevented Correa from getting the deal he wanted?  Is playing another year or two or three for Minnesota going to change the view of his injury history?

What do they do with that $30M? Use it now (and on what)? Save it for the trade deadline to stack a contending team? Don't spend it, period? Hookers and blow?

I think Correa’s injury history was certainly a factor in his inability to get the contract he really wanted, and Houston likely knew more about his health than anyone else.  Each season he avoid injury (especially back injuries) will help him a lot, although the fact that he is aging will offset that.  But if Correa puts up another healthy MVP caliber season I would predict he will opt out and secure $200M+.  We have no way of knowing what other offers he had but my opinion is if he was offered $200M+ over any length he should have taken it.

Hard to say what Houston should do with their payroll flexibility.  In terms of current free agents, I would check the price on Story, Conforto, Pham, and Soler.  Exploring extensions with Alvarez, Tucker, and Pena is probably worthwhile although I wouldn’t expect Alvarez or Tucker to accept anything that makes sense for the Astros.  The trade market doesn’t appear to be all that ripe so Houston’s best bet might be to sit tight until the deadline.  And of course, hookers and blow.

[Snake Diggity 4,620]

Looking at teams who appear to be rebuilding, here are the players Houston might want to try to trade for:

SP: Means, Montas, Manaea

OF: Mullins, Laureano, Reynolds 

[TonyTexas 10,508]

Just because they have room under the CBT, it doesn’t mean they will spend it. The Astros payroll isn’t going to perpetually bump up against the CBT levels or even always be in the top quartile of MLB payrolls. Crane will do it but only if it seems a good investment.. And he’s a pretty conservative investor.  That’s why he doesn’t like long term contracts but is aggressive at the trade deadline.  Less guesswork. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

2 hours ago, LCHorn said:

I think the message here is that they’d far rather have Pena at the major league minimum and in 2023 and 2024.  It’s hard to judge passing on Correa without seeing how that money gets spent elsewhere during that period (it would be interesting to see who is slated to be a free agent after the season).

The FA class this upcoming season is low key terrible. That’s probably part of why Correa wants back in to FA. That also, combined with expanded playoffs might make for slim pickings at the deadline. 
 

best 3 bats are Judge, Jose Ramirez and Xander. I guess you could throw Dansby Swanson in if you are of a mind. Can’t imagine Judge doesn’t end up with the Yankees. I think there’s like 6 total position players in their 20’s is all. 
 

As far as arms can I interest you in a Trever Bauer?  You think there is any chance Kershaw or DeGrom would answer our call if we bothered to call?  I don’t see anyone that screams out- Astros. Aaron Nola is up. Honestly though- I’m not worried about arms. I really think we are good there. 

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Wulaw Horn

[Planet Houston 4,930]

I just can’t believe that rumor about the Stros ghosting Correa. If that’s true then they would have already lost this locker room, or at least a few leaders. 

This sucks.