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2021-2022 Astros Offseason Thread

Planet Houston

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Planet Houston
Planet Houston

Fuck the haters. We will be back again next year. Discuss. 

Jshep34
Jshep34

Lilshep collecting more hardware. All american games. Compete against kids from all over country. He went 5 for 6. 2 walks. Stole 8 bases. Played error free defense. Possibly selected for national t

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

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TonyTexas

TonyTexas 10482

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7 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

mlb isnt passing up vegas

Agreed. I still think the A’s could end up there. While some progress had been made towards building a new stadium in Oakland, it’s a complicated deal that still has a long way to go. California and taxpayer subsidies for private enterprise don’t mix well and it seems like ownership really wants to move to the desert. 

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Guadaloopy

Guadaloopy 10926

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19 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Bleacher Report has us signing Andleton Simmons to a 1yr/$7.5m deal as a stopgap to Pena. Makes some sense. Good D, Bad O. 
 

They have CC going to Detroit for 10/$350m. Seager  to the Yanks and Story to the Rangers. 

The Office No GIF
Baseball skills aside, I cannot watch 140+ games of Simmons on TV. 

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tx 3 putt

tx 3 putt 76399

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45 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Bleacher Report has us signing Andleton Simmons to a 1yr/$7.5m deal as a stopgap to Pena. Makes some sense. Good D, Bad O. 
 

They have CC going to Detroit for 10/$350m. Seager  to the Yanks and Story to the Rangers. 


I’d rather play a young prospect 

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Storm the Field

Storm the Field 5273

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Chandler Rome article for Chron today has Click throwing cold water on any talk of moving Bregman to SS. Made it sound not unlikely that we either just start Diaz or sign a stopgap to a 1-year deal until Pena is ready. Simmons and Villar were mentioned as possibilities, which doesn't excite anyone.

If that's even remotely the plan, then better be spending a fuckton on pitching and sign somebody with some RH power that can get AB's spread between DH and other positions.

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kevwun

kevwun 15653

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Who are they willing to spend money on?  Can't sign this guy because he wants too many years.  Can't sign this guy because we have a guy in the minors at his position.  There's a nice logical argument against signing every impact free agent it seems.

Edited by kevwun
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TonyTexas

TonyTexas 10482

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9 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Who are they willing to spend money on?  Can't sign this guy because he wants too many years.  Can't sign this guy because we have a guy in the minors at his position.  There's a nice logical argument against signing every impact free agent it seems.

Robbie Ray would be a nice start. 

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Smax

Smax 3800

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22 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

During the playoffs, Carlos acknowledged that he understood the impact of state and city income taxes. The Astros 5/$160 offer could be equivalent to $184 with NYY or Angels, or $168 in Detroit. Obviously Arlington, Miami, and Seattle have the same benefit, but I don’t see Miami getting in on it. If there were any truth to that 6 year/$210 rumor, that is equivalent to $241 in NY or CA. 

 

 

I didn't check your math but you do know players are taxed on where each game is played, so Astros players only have half their games ( home games) plus vs arlington at Texas no income tax rate. Yes they same some in taxes but its not a zero state taxes on their entire salary

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Storm the Field

Storm the Field 5273

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23 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Who are they willing to spend money on?  Can't sign this guy because he wants too many years.  Can't sign this guy because we have a guy in the minors at his position.  There's a nice logical argument against signing every impact free agent it seems.

I mean it can be frustrating, but it's pretty clear the way this organization operates. Not opposed to having a Top 5 payroll, but much more willing to get there by spending $$ on locking up young stars to extensions and occasionally taking on the last year or two of a high-priced veteran contract than signing any emerging FA's to 10-year mega deals.

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LCHorn

LCHorn 2585

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1 hour ago, TonyTexas said:

Bleacher Report has us signing Andleton Simmons to a 1yr/$7.5m deal as a stopgap to Pena. Makes some sense. Good D, Bad O. 
 

They have CC going to Detroit for 10/$350m. Seager  to the Yanks and Story to the Rangers. 

Is Bleacher Report considered more reliable than some random person on Facebook?  
 

I read all goddamn 25 pages of the Clutchfans off-season thread (several posters on here notably among the contributors) last night about 2 am and I’m probably more up to speed than Bleacher Report (and I know nothing).  
 

It seems like “Nook”, who is basically the Clutchfans CTJ thinks the Astros are looking for a discounted vet at SS as a back-up plan (or first option) to pair with rolling with Pena, presuming they don’t have to surrender him in trade for a starter.  
 

I still think I’d tell Carlos I’ll match his best offer (even at 10-350).  

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kevwun

kevwun 15653

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8 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

I mean it can be frustrating, but it's pretty clear the way this organization operates. Not opposed to having a Top 5 payroll, but much more willing to get there by spending $$ on locking up young stars to extensions and occasionally taking on the last year or two of a high-priced veteran contract than signing any emerging FA's to 10-year mega deals.

I think the high payroll comments are lip service and the Astros are letting the payroll whittle itself down while not acknowledging that's what is happening.  I don't want that to be the case, but I have a bad feeling it is.  We'll know for sure in the next few months.

Edited by kevwun
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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18981

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48 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

Chandler Rome article for Chron today has Click throwing cold water on any talk of moving Bregman to SS. Made it sound not unlikely that we either just start Diaz or sign a stopgap to a 1-year deal until Pena is ready. Simmons and Villar were mentioned as possibilities, which doesn't excite anyone.

If that's even remotely the plan, then better be spending a fuckton on pitching and sign somebody with some RH power that can get AB's spread between DH and other positions.

So the off-season starts out with my nightmare fuel and it looks like click is more interested in winning the dollar per win title than building a ducking juggernaught. Cool cool. Loads the gun and cocks the hammer and points at his temple. 

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Js1

Js1 85110

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12 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I think the high payroll comments are lip service and the Astros are letting the payroll whittle itself down while not acknowledging that's what is happening.  I don't want that to be the case, but I have a bad feeling it is.  We'll know for sure in the next few months.

Cheap.  It's not a surprise. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18981

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12 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I think the high payroll comments are lip service and the Astros are letting the payroll whittle itself down while not acknowledging that's what is happening.  I don't want that to be the case, but I have a bad feeling it is.  We'll know for sure in the next few months.

I’ve long suspected that’s what this off-season will be about. It pisses me off. If that’s the play 2022 will be my last year as a season ticket holder. 
Baseball will never be this good again here in all likelihood. You do everything you can to extend out this good run. 

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Murfdogg21

Murfdogg21 4412

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23 minutes ago, Smax said:

 

 

I didn't check your math but you do know players are taxed on where each game is played, so Astros players only have half their games ( home games) plus vs arlington at Texas no income tax rate. Yes they same some in taxes but its not a zero state taxes on their entire salary

You are right, the differences aren’t as large as I stated, probably 60-70%. 
 

If I was a player, I’d think about structuring a contract with periodic bonuses (when I’m in my non-tax home state) and lower per game salary to further minimize bullshit tax burden to states I visit 10 days a year. 

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TonyTexas

TonyTexas 10482

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I’ve long suspected that’s what this off-season will be about. It pisses me off. If that’s the play 2022 will be my last year as a season ticket holder. 
Baseball will never be this good again here in all likelihood. You do everything you can to extend out this good run. 

Edited by TonyTexas
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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18981

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11 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I've been worried about this off-season since last year.

Me too.  This was always going to be the year he went cheap if he was going to go cheap.

8 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Yeah. I deleted my post. Who am I to tell you how to feel?  Fret away. 

I repped your post.  There was no offense taken. I'm probably way more emotionally invested in the Astros than I should be. I love baseball. I love this team. 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29177

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1 hour ago, Storm the Field said:

Chandler Rome article for Chron today has Click throwing cold water on any talk of moving Bregman to SS. Made it sound not unlikely that we either just start Diaz or sign a stopgap to a 1-year deal until Pena is ready. Simmons and Villar were mentioned as possibilities, which doesn't excite anyone.

If that's even remotely the plan, then better be spending a fuckton on pitching and sign somebody with some RH power that can get AB's spread between DH and other positions.

maybe i only know this from fantasy baseball, but simmons and villar are polar opposites at ss.  simmons is a defensive guy all the way.  he has 3 homers in his last 600ab and an ops under .600 so yeah, defensive stopgap.  i would rather roll with pena (i don't know pena, but typically milb infielders are ready with the glove before the bat).

villar on the other hand can actually hit the ball, but definitely isn't the defender simmons is.  he can get you 18-24 homers and also steal you 12-18 bases.  if you hit him in the right part of the order (1st?) then i think he would be productive, at least offensively.

i only point this out to say that if those are the 2 names mentioned, then whomever wrote it has no fucking idea what our "strategy" is.  as don draper put it, "that's not a strategy, that's two strategies separated by the word 'and'."

i'm of the opinion that machete is here to handle the staff and call the games.  without him, we don't get plus results from our 3 inexperienced latin starters, and that's worth more than any offense can bring.  and that's without even mentioning his cannon and framing.  all that is to say - we're allowed to have one black hole offensively in an al lineup.  not two.  if you're going to fill ss with a "cheap stopgap", that stopgap better be able to hit.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29177

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10 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Yeah. I deleted my post. Who am I to tell you how to feel?  Fret away. 

i was fine with your post too.  whenever my wife walks by me bitching about the horns or astros or whomever, she'll often say something like, "why do you watch this if it's just going to upset you?"  my response it always something like, "this is part of it."

freaking out about the offseason is part of the offseason.  it's like a brainstorming session.  there are no bad ideas or unnecessary freakouts.  this is a safe space.

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22600

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Can someone explain the overwhelming negativity towards Click?

If any of Lance getting hurt/Greinke getting COVID/all of our reliable bats falling off a cliff don't happen, then we are likely WS Champs.

His bullpen additions performed far superior in the playoffs to anything Luhnow ever brought in.  His decision to trade Straw (which I was PISSED about at the time) was the right move.  Bringing back Machete for $5M is an easy call.

I'm not saying we need to crown him yet and it's going to be a nightmare to watch Correa put on a new jersey, but the doom and gloom for the future of this team seems insane to me.

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tx 3 putt

tx 3 putt 76399

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1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I’ve long suspected that’s what this off-season will be about. It pisses me off. If that’s the play 2022 will be my last year as a season ticket holder. 
Baseball will never be this good again here in all likelihood. You do everything you can to extend out this good run. 


if only we had kept toro !

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LCHorn

LCHorn 2585

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3 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Can someone explain the overwhelming negativity towards Click?

If any of Lance getting hurt/Greinke getting COVID/all of our reliable bats falling off a cliff don't happen, then we are likely WS Champs.

His bullpen additions performed far superior in the playoffs to anything Luhnow ever brought in.  His decision to trade Straw (which I was PISSED about at the time) was the right move.  Bringing back Machete for $5M is an easy call.

I'm not saying we need to crown him yet and it's going to be a nightmare to watch Correa put on a new jersey, but the doom and gloom for the future of this team seems insane to me.

What overwhelming negativity towards Click?  I think most fans are either a) still in wait and see or b) who?

it does seem Goldstein feels like he wasn’t appreciated enough and maybe he right but I’m not carrying water for him, are you?

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WBT

WBT 20422

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Can someone explain the overwhelming negativity towards Click?

The biggest part of it to me is the dumb contracts given to Odorizzi and Baez.  And Baez was a medical miss, not necessarily performance.  But I wouldn't say I'm overwhelmingly negative to him.  The bullpen moves at the deadline didn't look great through the end of the regular season but they all performed well in the playoffs.  Building a bullpen is the easy part though.

Mostly I'd say he hasn't done enough yet to have a strong opinion either way.  And that comes with inheriting a great roster where he didn't need to do much.  But as we continue to have people leave we'll need to do something for replacements.  And I'll readily admit that for this to be sustainable a lot of that will need to involve bringing guys up through the farm.

This offseason will help to fill in more of the picture.  My worry is that he'll act like he's still with the Rays and only shop in the bargain bin but we'll see.

 

Edited by WBT
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Texas St. Armadillos

Texas St. Armadillos 1381

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7 minutes ago, kevwun said:

My problem with Click is that the Astros get a little worse every off-season.  Springer got replaced by Straw and it looks like Correa will get replaced by a jag or a rookie.

You lose Springer, but Tucker improved greatly (4.7 offensive WAR, .917 OPS).  Jury is still out on the decline of missing Correa, but he's a free agent with injury history.  Do you want the Astros to offer 10 years 320-350?

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kevwun

kevwun 15653

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No, I want them to sign a good replacement and not count on a rookie to take up Correa's slack.  You can replace a great player with a good one and still be fine.  They are going to run out of fingers to plug the dike eventually if this is their long term strategy.

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TonyTexas

TonyTexas 10482

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34 minutes ago, kevwun said:

My problem with Click is that the Astros get a little worse every off-season.  Springer got replaced by Straw and it looks like Correa will get replaced by a jag or a rookie.

That was going to be the case regardless of who was GM with Springer and Correa reaching free agency, Greinke declining and Verlander getting hurt. The key phrase in your post is “a little worse”. That’s much better than “a lot worse”

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14488

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41 minutes ago, WBT said:

The biggest part of it to me is the dumb contracts given to Odorizzi and Baez.  And Baez was a medical miss, not necessarily performance.  But I wouldn't say I'm overwhelmingly negative to him.  The bullpen moves at the deadline didn't look great through the end of the regular season but they all performed well in the playoffs.  Building a bullpen is the easy part though.

Mostly I'd say he hasn't done enough yet to have a strong opinion either way.  And that comes with inheriting a great roster where he didn't need to do much.  But as we continue to have people leave we'll need to do something for replacements.  And I'll readily admit that for this to be sustainable a lot of that will need to involve bringing guys up through the farm.

This offseason will help to fill in more of the picture.  My worry is that he'll act like he's still with the Rays and only shop in the bargain bin but we'll see.

 

Odorizzi had 16 good to great starts, he had 7 bad ones mostly at the start of the season when he didn't have a complete spring training. He made one bad pitch against Boston after coming in from the bullpen, and was great against Atlanta, still thought he should have started game 6.

You need to get over the signing. It wasn't a horrible decision or addition considering the context when the signing was made.

Edited by HtownHorn
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