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Mass casualty event Astroworldfest. Multiple dead. Hundreds injured

FartingMonk

By FartingMonk
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Scraps

Scraps 13561

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So every city is different of course, but just shedding some light on how our event permitting goes where I am.  I obviously have never dealt with an event on this scale, but we do end up having some pretty decent sized crowds at some of our stuff.  

I am the direct approver of any outdoor exhibition (concerts, carnivals, etc.).  We require numerous things from the applicant, insurance/bond/site plan/waste agreement/property owner permission.  

Once all this is submitted to us we then will send over the "packet" to Fire Marshals, PD, Building Dept, Traffic control for their review and approval.  They are all responsible to review and look at any items they deem necessary.  If they all come back to me with the approval, then the event gets approved.  

 

 

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Herbie Hancock

Herbie Hancock 7347

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So every city is different of course, but just shedding some light on how our event permitting goes where I am.  I obviously have never dealt with an event on this scale, but we do end up having some pretty decent sized crowds at some of our stuff.  
I am the direct approver of any outdoor exhibition (concerts, carnivals, etc.).  We require numerous things from the applicant, insurance/bond/site plan/waste agreement/property owner permission.  
Once all this is submitted to us we then will send over the "packet" to Fire Marshals, PD, Building Dept, Traffic control for their review and approval.  They are all responsible to review and look at any items they deem necessary.  If they all come back to me with the approval, then the event gets approved.  
 
 

This. On top of all that foresight, there is oversight before, during, and after the event to ensure they are continually meeting all of their obligations. The promoters are in it for one reason and that is to make money. We cut in to their profit margin significantly by making them follow the rules. If we aren’t there constantly making sure they’re following the rules, then shit like this is exactly what happens. How anyone can say this isn’t squarely on the CoH is beyond me.
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Scraps

Scraps 13561

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17 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:


This. On top of all that foresight, there is oversight before, during, and after the event to ensure they are continually meeting all of their obligations. The promoters are in it for one reason and that is to make money. We cut in to their profit margin significantly by making them follow the rules. If we aren’t there constantly making sure they’re following the rules, then shit like this is exactly what happens. How anyone can say this isn’t squarely on the CoH is beyond me.

yes....I was going to add this to my previous post but you kind of beat me to it:

Being someone who is directly involved in this kind of stuff.....yes the City is one of the people at fault here.  Event organizers are going to try their hardest to cut every corner and save any money they can on stuff.  It is the responsibility of the City and departments that are reviewing the event to step in and force event organizers to protect the public.

Unfortunately sometimes things are unknown, but you have to do your best to prevent those scenarios from happening.  Whoever reviewed from a Fire Marshal/PD standpoint for City of Houston probably needs to reevaluate what they are reviewing for 

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Herbie Hancock

Herbie Hancock 7347

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yes....I was going to add this to my previous post but you kind of beat me to it:
Being someone who is directly involved in this kind of stuff.....yes the City is one of the people at fault here.  Event organizers are going to try their hardest to cut every corner and save any money they can on stuff.  It is the responsibility of the City and departments that are reviewing the event to step in and force event organizers to protect the public.
Unfortunately sometimes things are unknown, but you have to do your best to prevent those scenarios from happening.  Whoever reviewed from a Fire Marshal/PD standpoint for City of Houston probably needs to reevaluate what they are reviewing for 

Agreed. And I could word it a little better. I don’t believe CoH is the only party at fault here, but it absolutely starts with them and they should get the majority of blame. Promoters will do as much as you let them get away with. This wasn’t the first time they or another promoter pulled some shit like this, it’s just the first time things went really really bad. I can tell your firsthand that HFD is a colossal shit show, and the chief is nothing more than Sylvester Turner’s puppet so not much surprises me these days when it comes to them
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Hate

Hate 20108

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Ultimately don't the people at the show also bare some responsibility here?  I've been to many many festival type events and never encountered anything like that.  Yes, the organizers are to blame.  Yes, Scott has blame for encouraging the gate crashing.  But this wouldn't have happened had people at that show collectively used their one or two functioning brain cells to see that things were getting out of control. 

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HouTex

HouTex 1867

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Ultimately don't the people at the show also bare some responsibility here?  I've been to many many festival type events and never encountered anything like that.  Yes, the organizers are to blame.  Yes, Scott has blame for encouraging the gate crashing.  But this wouldn't have happened had people at that show collectively used their one or two functioning brain cells to see that things were getting out of control. 

I agree, but the city officials need to assume people are dumb fucks.
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Deej

Deej 76776

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1 hour ago, Hook1997 said:

It’s Houston, if you don’t get murdered or car jacked on the way to the show you now have a chance of getting killed at the concert…..    

If the cops don't storm your house and shoot you before you leave for the show. 

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Hate said:

Ultimately don't the people at the show also bare some responsibility here?  I've been to many many festival type events and never encountered anything like that.  Yes, the organizers are to blame.  Yes, Scott has blame for encouraging the gate crashing.  But this wouldn't have happened had people at that show collectively used their one or two functioning brain cells to see that things were getting out of control. 

Are you advocating for people, en masse, to take personal responsibility for the well-being of those around them?

Edited by DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt
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TexasEd

TexasEd 8067

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On 11/8/2021 at 9:49 AM, Hate said:

Ultimately don't the people at the show also bare some responsibility here?  I've been to many many festival type events and never encountered anything like that.  Yes, the organizers are to blame.  Yes, Scott has blame for encouraging the gate crashing.  But this wouldn't have happened had people at that show collectively used their one or two functioning brain cells to see that things were getting out of control. 

So the crowd was supposed to get naked to prevent this from happening?

 

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Harrison Bergeron

Harrison Bergeron 1798

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On 11/8/2021 at 9:49 AM, Hate said:

Ultimately don't the people at the show also bare some responsibility here?  I've been to many many festival type events and never encountered anything like that.  Yes, the organizers are to blame.  Yes, Scott has blame for encouraging the gate crashing.  But this wouldn't have happened had people at that show collectively used their one or two functioning brain cells to see that things were getting out of control. 

Yes, but the concertgoers do not have large insurance coverage. The city and LiveNation should have responsibility to provide a reasonably safe environment (not a legal argument but a moral on), and of course Scott bears much of the blame for encouraging his fans to disregard reasonable security precautions. I would assume legally the question will be whether the city and LiveNation met their legal obligations in terms of security and safety. Not sure how true it is, but news reported that people were crashing the gates before the concert, i.e. the crowd likely exceeded capacity ... feels like that was the venue's responsibility to ensure capacity was not exceeded to unsafe levels.

Terrible tragedy.

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TexasEd

TexasEd 8067

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On 11/7/2021 at 7:12 AM, Trey3216 said:

They put more people on stage to make it a “show of power/confidence” when in reality the more people there are, the more clueless they are about the situation.   

mayor gets asked a question - ok let me direct that one to Pete, Pete will you come up here

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High Plains Drifter

High Plains Drifter 11049

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On 11/6/2021 at 6:13 PM, Newdoc said:

Until the guard has a positive opioid tox screen that wasn’t his own habit (so likely need hair sample too) then Narcan administration and regaining consciousness is correlation and not causation. 

 

I used to think correlation implied causation, but then I took a stats class, and I now understand that correlation does not imply causation.

Sounds like the class helped.

Goddamnit, I just said correlation does not imply causation.

 

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Elvis

Elvis 3371

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Unrelated, but being the halls of a packed Superdome shortly after reopening post Katrina was terrifying.  Low ceilings and super claustrophobic. A small panic could have lead to horrible stampede and death.  Only time I’ve felt really scared for my safety.  

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Bob Lives!

Bob Lives! 912

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Yep. Yet parents will walk away with a hefty settlement for their complete irresponsibility in something to which they and they alone subjected their child.

Parents won’t walk away with any settlement at all, if their kid lives. The most they’ll get is their medical bills back. The setttlement money will go into a trust or annuity for the kid and he won’t collect until he’s 18 other than any amounts needed to provide directly-related medical care.


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smuggs

smuggs 9353

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1 hour ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Other than the lyrical content being age appropriate and costs of a ticket, I wouldn't think twice about taking my kid to a concert.  I'm assuming the parental judgment is because Scott's music isn't age appropriate and not some sort of ridiculous notion that they should have foreseen this disaster. 

Neither would I, but I'm definitely not taking my 9 year old anywhere remotely close to the stage at a general admin outdoor event. I doubt this kid got trampled into a coma while watching from a blanket or a fold up chair at a safe distance from the main mass of the audience.

 

 

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Bob Lives!

Bob Lives! 912

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I don’t disagree w/ the posts about the failure of oversight by local authorities, but I did want to throw in some info. Those failures are not likely to create any legal liability on the part of Houston or Harris County because of sovereign immunity and the limitation of their liability under the Texas Tort Claims Act. Even if those claims were viable, the all-in maximum exposure for all claimants combined is $500k for Houston and $300k for Harris County.


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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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Other than the lyrical content being age appropriate and costs of a ticket, I wouldn't think twice about taking my kid to a concert.  I'm assuming the parental judgment is because Scott's music isn't age appropriate and not some sort of ridiculous notion that they should have foreseen this disaster. 

Agree but a lot of the problems here stem from the fact that Scott and his team have deliberately promoted and targeted young kids. McDonald’s had a Travis Scott themed Happy Meal and Minecraft did a collaboration with him.

It’s gross.
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Tex48

Tex48 840

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54 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:


Agree but a lot of the problems here stem from the fact that Scott and his team have deliberately promoted and targeted young kids. McDonald’s had a Travis Scott themed Happy Meal and Fortnite did a collaboration with him.

It’s gross.

Travis isn't cool enough for Minecraft.  

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Firemans4Horn

Firemans4Horn 18048

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15 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

lol sorry I got my computer games mixed up. #notanerd

Also -
 


fuck TMZ

and fuck this clown police chief for running this victim blaming ridiculous story from the outset. 
 

you know why people where in cardiac arrest? BECAUSE THEY WERE TRAMPLED AND CRUSHED UNTIL THEIR HEART GAVE OUT. Not some Dexter serial killer running around with a needle injecting people. 

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