It’s coaching vs we need new players thread

[Rockethorn1978 6154]

This is argued about in multiple threads so let’s lay it all out in one main thread.

I have and always will be someone that believes your team reflects it’s leadership. I know we need new talent on the 40 but the ones we have are not 1 and 2 star guys, that’s Baylor who just beat us and they have a coach that is helping that lower end talent develop and play about their “star” rankings. 
 

Beyond just star ranking how about our poor second half performances and the apparent no adjustments at all? One game? Ok maybe it’s just the ou meltdown but no it’s been 4 straight games of wtf second half meltdowns. How anyone thinks that’s just the players is beyond me. 
 

but let’s hear the arguments from both sides, and just saying “we need 5 star studs” isn’t a argument and it’s lazy tbh. Great coaches have the ability to at the least have his team improving week to week and maybe it won’t mean we win games but it does mean if we are getting better we will probably win some games as I think we should have done. 

[RaysBoomBoomRoom 5742]

Easiest thing to do is simply ask yourself who on our team would start at UGA,BAMA, or Ohio State? Pretty simple

[Ultimate Failure 61]

2 minutes ago, RaysBoomBoomRoom said:

Easiest thing to do is simply ask yourself who on our team would start at UGA,BAMA, or Ohio State? Pretty simple

No, it's not that simple.  How do you explain our perennial top-10-rated recruiting classes?

Furthermore... Why should we need UGA, Bama or Ohio State's roster to beat Baylor?

Edited November 7, 2021 by Ultimate Failure

[Rockethorn1978 6154]

5 minutes ago, RaysBoomBoomRoom said:

Easiest thing to do is simply ask yourself who on our team would start at UGA,BAMA, or Ohio State? Pretty simple

Have you seen our recruiting classes the last 5 years? We aren’t ranked 75th. 

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2645]

2 minutes ago, Ultimate Failure said:

No, it's not that simple.  How do you explain our perennial top-10-rated recruiting classes?

Furthermore... Why should we need UGA, Bama or Ohio State's roster to beat Baylor?

This. 

[GringoSalado 1652]

3 minutes ago, Ultimate Failure said:

No, it's not that simple.  How do you explain our perennial top-10-rated recruiting classes?

It's never the same explanation, but go peruse the names in those classes. Other posters on other threads have posted the attrition. I don't know how we compare to other schools but there are massive holes (and lots of busts) all through these classes.

[RaysBoomBoomRoom 5742]

4 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Have you seen our recruiting classes the last 5 years? We aren’t ranked 75th. 

Yes ive seen most of our blue chip guys end up as duds or leaving the program. Relying on the rankings is lazy, thats why I suggested judging what you see every saturday and asking yourself if these are good players or not. this roster is bad

Edited November 7, 2021 by RaysBoomBoomRoom

[CowtownHorn 5126]

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by CowtownHorn

[Rockethorn1978 6154]

Just now, RaysBoomBoomRoom said:

Yes ive seen most of our blue chip guys end up as duds or leaving the program. Relying on the rankings is lazy, thats why I said suggested judging what you see every saturday and asking yourself if these are good players or not. this roster is bad

Yea who’s job is it to make talent better  when they are on campus? You think guys just walk on the field as 5 star 18 year olds everywhere else and leave nfl studs on their own?

[Tex Pete 21051]

We do need some new players at various positions, but going from being 3 scores up on OU to whatever last night was highlights  much bigger problems than just players. We need leadership from the AD, leadership from the HC, all position coaches and within the team itself. We need people working hard to get our NIL program humming. We need resources funneled into everything that supports winning football.
 

This is bigger than Jimmys and Joes or Xs and Os. 

[RaysBoomBoomRoom 5742]

Just now, Rockethorn1978 said:

Yea who’s job is it to make talent better  when they are on campus? You think guys just walk on the field as 5 star 18 year olds everywhere else and leave nfl studs on their own?

coaches are good until they come to Texas then they just magically suck all of a sudden. The consensus was that this was an elite staff 6 months ago. Don't change the narrative to fit your agenda now. People don't just forget how to coach, this roster is ass.

[ClubWhatever 12178]

It’s both.  We are talent deficient in key areas but the talent that’s there isn’t being maximized.   We are weak and slow up front.  That’s problem number 1 and is mainly talent  The scheme is built for a team that’s strong up front.  So that’s 1a.  Number 2 is our QBs are jags.  2a is they are being asked to be Mac Jones when they are just not pocket passers.   3, our safeties are awful.  Just atrocious players.  And that started before the current staff got here.  But I refuse to believe there aren’t better options on the roster that could have been developed instead of what we trot out there.  That’s all coaching and it’s a disaster in a scheme that requires the safeties to be able to reliably clean up mistakes.  4 is we have a walkon starting at LB and another getting significant snaps.  The options behind them either need more snaps or left the team.  5 our starting TE is a jag in an offense that wants to utilize the TE.  6. We have one good WR and a bunch of jags.  

[Rockethorn1978 6154]

3 minutes ago, RaysBoomBoomRoom said:

coaches are good until they come to Texas then they just magically suck all of a sudden. The consensus was that this was an elite staff 6 months ago. Don't change the narrative to fit your agenda now. People don't just forget how to coach, this roster is ass.

Lol I’ve never changed my narrative, I’ve said we have good classes and our coaching blows hence the 4 game losing streak. Second half collapses and no halftime adjustments is all coaching. Make your team better and help them improve. That’s not happening.

[Hook1997 5435]

Just look at the oline and receivers, need players bad!   The ghost of Tom Lombardi couldn’t coach these players to a ten win season this year.  

[bullet 1610]

9 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

We do need some new players at various positions, but going from being 3 scores up on OU to whatever last night was highlights  much bigger problems than just players. We need leadership from the AD, leadership from the HC, all position coaches and within the team itself. We need people working hard to get our NIL program humming. We need resources funneled into everything that supports winning football.
 

This is bigger than Jimmys and Joes or Xs and Os. 

Yes.  We whipped OU, Oklahoma St. and Baylor for 3 quarters.  Players are important, but the coaching needs to pull them over the hump.

[bullet 1610]

9 minutes ago, RaysBoomBoomRoom said:

coaches are good until they come to Texas then they just magically suck all of a sudden. The consensus was that this was an elite staff 6 months ago. Don't change the narrative to fit your agenda now. People don't just forget how to coach, this roster is ass.

The Kool-Aid consensus was that this was an elite staff.  Some of us saw that Sark was an unproven commodity.  He was a 7 win coach elsewhere.  There was no telling what he would do sober.

[Tex Pete 21051]

8 minutes ago, RaysBoomBoomRoom said:

coaches are good until they come to Texas then they just magically suck all of a sudden. The consensus was that this was an elite staff 6 months ago. Don't change the narrative to fit your agenda now. People don't just forget how to coach, this roster is ass.

The consensus was never that this was an elite head coach. I’ve seen nothing at all to convince me that my first reaction upon hearing we had hired a drunk loser was the wrong one. I would love to be wrong. 

[Blotto 23755]

1 minute ago, Ultimate Failure said:

No, it's not that simple.  How do you explain our perennial top-10-rated recruiting classes?

our losses this year are to Ark, OU, OSU, and Baylor, not UGA OSU or Bama (although they would rape us as well)

247 team rankings
	Tex	Ark	OU	OSU	Baylor
2021	15	25	10	30	41
2020	8	29	12	40	50
2019	3	23	6	38	35
2018	3	45	9	34	29
2017	25	27	8	38	40
Average	10.8	29.8	9	36	39

 

2 minutes ago, RaysBoomBoomRoom said:

coaches are good until they come to Texas then they just magically suck all of a sudden. The consensus was that this was an elite staff 6 months ago. Don't change the narrative to fit your agenda now. People don't just forget how to coach, this roster is ass.

That consensus was largely acheived on UT message boards, and means exactly jack shit with zero games coached. 

[bullet 1610]

3 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

Just look at the oline and receivers, need players bad!   The ghost of Tom Lombardi couldn’t coach these players to a ten win season this year.  

Look at Alabama's receivers.  They drop passes too.  Baylor's and OSU's receivers were dropping passes.  Our receivers aren't elite, but they are adequate.

[Goredho 17519]

Cross posting.  Neg away if that shit bothers you.

There are talent deficiencies here, sure.  But we’re really dealing with a psychological deficiency more than anything.  This team gets a bad break and they don’t get mad.  They don’t fight back with renewed vigor. They buckle and get rolled by teams with no more athletic talent than they possess.

When you aren’t passionate, when your heart isn’t in it anymore — whatever the endeavor — your floor becomes your ceiling.  That’s what I see out of these players right now.  They should be competitors full of an unshakeable enthusiasm to play football.  The majority of the players last night looked like they would rather be ANYWHERE other than playing football.  That’s on them, and it’s on the coaches.  that’s why they are 4-5 star recruits that never develop and often regress.  

That is the most alarming pattern that I’ve seen recur through all the different recruiting classes and coaching changes.  Every fucking time it seems to catch the new coach completely off guard.  So heads up next coach!  Your biggest challenge at Texas will be changing the environment and culture that, for whatever reason, erodes your player’s competitive spirit and love of the game.

[dcar00 14631]

3 minutes ago, RaysBoomBoomRoom said:

coaches are good until they come to Texas then they just magically suck all of a sudden. The consensus was that this was an elite staff 6 months ago. Don't change the narrative to fit your agenda now. People don't just forget how to coach, this roster is ass.

huh? Sark isn't even an elite head coach.  Davis is the only true elite recruiter IMO.   Banks is supposed to be elite, we'll see.

Flood seems to have a decent resume. I'm not sure he's elite but because we got him from bama where he was there for 2 years he's considered "elite"? 

Choate and PK should be pretty good but not seeing it.

Gideon/JAG at this point, Coleman/JAG

Joseph was supposed to be kind of a coup, seems like a JAG

I would say B but better than Charlie's D staff and Herman's C G5/Houston staff in theory.  until otherwise shown, they are what their record says they are at Texas.

 

[taybo20 2976]

It is both. When you have elite talent it’s easy to see…Bijan and Xavier. The rest aren’t and it’s easy to see on the field. 

but being stupid as fuck in run fits on defense, or running in to each other on the oline…that’s coaching. And it’s clear that maybe some of this is just too much, too fast for a lot of these guys. 
 

so when you have decent athletes that have no clue what they are doing fundamentally, of course they get beat by lesser talented, harder working guys. 
 

we need better talent and we need simplified coaching to get these guys at the very least executing something other than there winning chances

[dcar00 14631]

12 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

Just look at the oline and receivers, need players bad!   The ghost of Tom Lombardi couldn’t coach these players to a ten win season this year.  

Fuck Tom Lombardi in his ass...wait, what?  doesn't he run the local Deli in Queens?

[taybo20 2976]

5 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Cross posting.  Neg away if that shit bothers you.

 

There are talent deficiencies here, sure.  But we’re really dealing with a psychological deficiency more than anything.  This team gets a bad break and they don’t get mad.  They don’t fight back with renewed vigor. They buckle and get rolled by teams with no more athletic talent than they possess.

When you aren’t passionate, when your heart isn’t in it anymore — whatever the endeavor — your floor becomes your ceiling.  That’s what I see out of these players right now.  They should be competitors full of an unshakeable enthusiasm to play football.  The majority of the players last night looked like they would rather be ANYWHERE other than playing football.  That’s on them, and it’s on the coaches.  that’s why they are 4-5 star recruits that never develop and often regress.  

That is the most alarming pattern that I’ve seen recur through all the different recruiting classes and coaching changes.  Every fucking time it seems to catch the new coach completely off guard.  So heads up next coach!  Your biggest challenge at Texas will be changing the environment and culture that, for whatever reason, erodes your player’s competitive spirit and love of the game.

I also agree with this. You can see this purely in blocking and tackling. You have to have the passion and desire to hit someone and dominate them. We dont show that and it’s a big reason why we suck at both.

[MrBig 5511]

For the OL, it’s the players. You can’t teach someone without arms how to drive. But Sark needs to coach better and get in touch with the best prosthetic arms dealer he can find. 

[hobbes2702 13171]

21 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

Just look at the oline and receivers, need players bad!   The ghost of Tom Lombardi couldn’t coach these players to a ten win season this year.  

I bet he could coach them to more than 4 wins though.

[Codaxx 5991]

21 minutes ago, Blotto said:

our losses this year are to Ark, OU, OSU, and Baylor, not UGA OSU or Bama (although they would rape us as well)

247 team rankings
	Tex	Ark	OU	OSU	Baylor
2021	15	25	10	30	41
2020	8	29	12	40	50
2019	3	23	6	38	35
2018	3	45	9	34	29
2017	25	27	8	38	40
Average	10.8	29.8	9	36	39

 

That consensus was largely acheived on UT message boards, and means exactly jack shit with zero games coached. 

Those are so worthless. 2018 class has had 1/3 leave for NFL or transfer, so you mostly have jags left. 2019 class was an abortion. 13 players are already gone. 5 of the top 7 are gone and the 2 left are T Johnson and JWhitt. 

[WBT 20776]

39 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Yea who’s job is it to make talent better  when they are on campus? You think guys just walk on the field as 5 star 18 year olds everywhere else and leave nfl studs on their own?

Mostly, yeah

[ApocalypseTexas 312]

The players play uninspired and appear lazy and entitled.  It does not appear that the coaches hold the players responsible for their play and therefor they contribute and encourage the level uninspired and lazy play that we continue to see.  
 

This will continue until the right coaches make the hard decision to hold the players accountable and start cutting players that do not meet the standard.

 

I would hope it would be this staff but I doubt it happens.  The staff is just as comfortable and lazy as the players.

 

[Codaxx 5991]

15 minutes ago, taybo20 said:

It is both. When you have elite talent it’s easy to see…Bijan and Xavier. The rest aren’t and it’s easy to see on the field. 

but being stupid as fuck in run fits on defense, or running in to each other on the oline…that’s coaching. And it’s clear that maybe some of this is just too much, too fast for a lot of these guys. 
 

so when you have decent athletes that have no clue what they are doing fundamentally, of course they get beat by lesser talented, harder working guys. 
 

we need better talent and we need simplified coaching to get these guys at the very least executing something other than there winning chances

100% agree. The team doesn’t have conference championship type talent, but it isn’t 4-5 talent either. The roster has holes and coaches have made mistakes. Defense brings my biggest issue

[softlynow 1852]

This roster is good enough to have gone 8-4. 

This debate will end on 9/17/22. When UTSA beats us one week after Bama throttles us by 50, the only question will be when we pull plug. 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

When you are this bad it's both. Players and coaching are both shitty.

[Herpa Derpa 6168]

[bschoolprof 6281]

We don't have the talent to be elite, but we certainly have enough talent to beat Baylor, OSU, ISU, etc.  The reason we didn't beat those teams is due to coaching, on both sides of the ball. Which means even if we upgrade our talent, we're never going to consistently contend for anything meaningful with this crew - Sark has clearly demonstrated that at his other stops.  Which means these chucklefucks we are paying millions of dollars are never going to convince a significant amount of elite talent to come here in the first place.  Which means if you are arguing that we just need to upgrade the roster and things will be fine, you should be placed on ignore.  So, from an efficiency standpoint, thanks to the OP for starting this thread.  

[HtownHorn 14981]

4 minutes ago, softlynow said:

This roster is good enough to have gone 8-4. 

This debate will end on 9/17/22. When UTSA beats us one week after Bama throttles us by 50, the only question will be when we pull plug. 

In what way is the roster good enough to go 8-4? You have 2 players out of the entire 85 that are all conference type performers, but most importantly we have two really shitty QBs, who are only better than the QB at KU. When you have shitty talent and really shitty QB play, this is what you get. Welcome to Michigan State and Baylor last year.

[LTtxfan 49456]

27 minutes ago, taybo20 said:

It is both. When you have elite talent it’s easy to see…Bijan and Xavier. The rest aren’t and it’s easy to see on the field.  but being stupid as fuck in run fits on defense, or running in to each other on the oline…that’s coaching. And it’s clear that maybe some of this is just too much, too fast for a lot of these guys.   so when you have decent athletes that have no clue what they are doing fundamentally, of course they get beat by lesser talented, harder working guys.   we need better talent and we need simplified coaching to get these guys at the very least executing something other than there winning chances

Great post.  Current Roster is shit and coaches have to do a lot better going forward.

Whoever is handling player evaluation for portal and recruiting, needs to really step up right now.  This current Roster is almost a total rebuild !!!

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by LTtxfan
typo

[Funk Doctor Spock 12833]

We definitely need new players, no doubt about it. What we have trotting out there isn't gonna get it done even in C-USA. A moron HC can look like a genius when he has great players. 

[Publiushorn 113]

1 hour ago, Ultimate Failure said:

No, it's not that simple.  How do you explain our perennial top-10-rated recruiting classes?

Furthermore... Why should we need UGA, Bama or Ohio State's roster to beat Baylor?

A better question might be "how many of our players would start for Baylor?"

 

I'm sure they would take a few of our players (more than UGA or Ohio State), but it wouldn't be the amount that the recruiting rankings would indicate. I always remember watching LSU under Les Miles and it seemed like their talent won a lot of games in spite of their coaching. You can't say that about Texas much over the last 10 years. [Edit: that's not to say coaching hasn't been a major problem either]

 

With all that being said, I think a lot of the talent that we've acquired doesn't always fit what our coaches are trying to do schematically. That's also a coaching problem--you can't force a square peg in a round hole. Strong, Herman, and Sark have been guilty of that. On top of that, we don't develop talent once it gets on campus.

 

Sometimes I think we should commit to the College Football equivalent of a rebuild the Astros did under Luhnow. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Publiushorn

[alphahorn 1637]

1 hour ago, Ultimate Failure said:

No, it's not that simple.  How do you explain our perennial top-10-rated recruiting classes?

Furthermore... Why should we need UGA, Bama or Ohio State's roster to beat Baylor?

$9.95, and out of our 25 signees in 2019, we have 6 left on the roster

[alphahorn 1637]

Seabiscuit.  That's how I see UT Football and Sark. UT Football is Seabiscuit and Sark is Red.  We've both been broken down and left out to pasture. No one left to give either of us a chance.  But hopefully the right fit for a joint comeback / rise to the top.  But then, I'm an eternal optimist. 

[GringoSalado 1652]

Alydar

[softlynow 1852]

23 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

In what way is the roster good enough to go 8-4? You have 2 players out of the entire 85 that are all conference type performers, but most importantly we have two really shitty QBs, who are only better than the QB at KU. When you have shitty talent and really shitty QB play, this is what you get. Welcome to Michigan State and Baylor last year.

Same roster that built a huge lead against the league’s clear leader, and a sizable one against the next 2 couldn’t go 8-4 under better management? Sure. Moronic take. 

[closetohumping 17575]

What will it be Deion, 15, 20 million?

[closetohumping 17575]

1 hour ago, Ultimate Failure said:

No, it's not that simple.  How do you explain our perennial top-10-rated recruiting classes?

Furthermore... Why should we need UGA, Bama or Ohio State's roster to beat Baylor?

Good point.  Now pull up Tom Herman's 2019 class.

[Helobious 9516]

We have shitty players getting shitty coaching.

[Landomatic 3813]

1 hour ago, RaysBoomBoomRoom said:

Easiest thing to do is simply ask yourself who on our team would start at UGA,BAMA, or Ohio State? Pretty simple

None of our coaches would, that’s for damn sure

[Ignatius 4086]

Maybe we’re overrating talent based on where they play in HS. I’m too lazy to look it up, but how many O lineman drafted in the 1st round in the last 15 years played high school in Texas?

[Ignatius 4086]

5 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

None of our coaches would, that’s for damn sure

Well yeah, they’re a bunch of old slow white guys, so of course they wouldn’t start there…

[VirginiaLonghorn 4827]

19 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

Alydar

… or Ruffian

[Bigbend1812 12978]

1 hour ago, RaysBoomBoomRoom said:

Easiest thing to do is simply ask yourself who on our team would start at UGA,BAMA, or Ohio State? Pretty simple