It’s coaching vs we need new players thread

[Blotto 23,584]

5 minutes ago, Ignatius said:

First round, not total. Who was the last elite offensive lineman who played high school football in Texas?

well in last years draft, I see Rashawn Slater went in the first round, and Cosmi and Walker Little in the second round. So thats 3 fairly highly drafted OL guys right there. Pretty sure Little was a top 20 high school recruit type, so I would say he panned out. I suspect thats typical, but I dont care enough to look any further.  

[alphahorn 1,637]

Bobby Burton just said something on his latest Youtube segment that really makes a lot of sense. And that is, Tom Herman wanted to build a roster that was capable of competing in a phone booth. In contrast, Sark wants a roster that can compete in space.  He and Nahlin also commented that on defense they are insistent on teaching these guys how to play their scheme and instilling that know how even though their scheme requires high IQ and athletic LB which we don't have.  I'm ok with a longer term build. For better or worse, I really hope this staff succeeds. I'd like to have a coach I like and respect and for me that's Sark.  I hated Herman and although I liked Charlie, he clearly wasn't the right fit.  Our roster sucks, there are no 2 ways about it. We need a reboot and between the portal and recruiting I think we'll get it.

[troph 24,913]

13 minutes ago, alphahorn said:

Bobby Burton just said something on his latest Youtube segment that really makes a lot of sense. And that is, Tom Herman wanted to build a roster that was capable of competing in a phone booth. In contrast, Sark wants a roster that can compete in space.  He and Nahlin also commented that on defense they are insistent on teaching these guys how to play their scheme and instilling that know how even though their scheme requires high IQ and athletic LB which we don't have.  I'm ok with a longer term build. For better or worse, I really hope this staff succeeds. I'd like to have a coach I like and respect and for me that's Sark.  I hated Herman and although I liked Charlie, he clearly wasn't the right fit.  Our roster sucks, there are no 2 ways about it. We need a reboot and between the portal and recruiting I think we'll get it.

In my last post I alluded to what I/we know and what I/we don’t know. When it’s time to make a decision with complex variables, it takes time and you have to isolate variables and figure out what we know are problems and see if those can be solved for. Talent isn’t there, that’s known. We think we have good recruiters. We need to tease that out. Scheme is brand new, we think it’s good but we know 5 months of practice isn’t enough to fully install, so we tease that out too. It’s not rocket science, yeah sark was a bad drunk. But the wild cards of sobriety and Saban are huge and we really don’t know who he is as a head coach, we can’t fire him because he “sucked” at USC. We can focus on recruiting and developing players which take way more time than we’ve given him so far. I think good decision making takes us to that point - giving him time to recruit and time to develop players. He might fail but I think it’s well known it hasn’t been long enough to conclude he will. 

Edited November 8, 2021 by troph

[927 E. 41st 1,124]

SIAP but, we are seeing the fruits of the "three/four year coaching spiral", poor no, EXTREMELY POOR player development and to some degree poor evaluation and mismatch of talent and scheme.

There is plenty of overlap between these problems. For example, the instability (while necessary) has put a huge hole in player development. The bad news has been none of it is a quick fix. The good news is, this is the first coach in the last 3 to hire a competent staff.

Can you imagine haveing 3-4 position coaches, basically a new one every year to 18 months and trying to make sense of yet another new scheme? That's what some of our players have been through. How in the hell can you develop players when you are constantly changing their coaches and in some cases changing their position. 

[bullet 1,599]

28 minutes ago, alphahorn said:

Bobby Burton just said something on his latest Youtube segment that really makes a lot of sense. And that is, Tom Herman wanted to build a roster that was capable of competing in a phone booth. In contrast, Sark wants a roster that can compete in space.  He and Nahlin also commented that on defense they are insistent on teaching these guys how to play their scheme and instilling that know how even though their scheme requires high IQ and athletic LB which we don't have.  I'm ok with a longer term build. For better or worse, I really hope this staff succeeds. I'd like to have a coach I like and respect and for me that's Sark.  I hated Herman and although I liked Charlie, he clearly wasn't the right fit.  Our roster sucks, there are no 2 ways about it. We need a reboot and between the portal and recruiting I think we'll get it.

Sounds like Manny Diaz.  He had a defense that worked fine the first year with NFL caliber linebackers.  It was awful the next year without them.  But it only took Greg Robinson 2 games to turn them into a solid defense.  You need flexible coaches who can win with what they have.  Sark strikes me as pretty inflexible.

[Nueces River Rat 5,539]

6 hours ago, alphahorn said:

$9.95, and out of our 25 signees in 2019, we have 6 left on the roster

And here is our problem.   I’d like to see what the numbers are going back to the last few years under Mack.   Want to say we had a couple of classes that were similar.  

[Nueces River Rat 5,539]

6 hours ago, alphahorn said:

$9.95, and out of our 25 signees in 2019, we have 6 left on the roster

And here is our problem.   I’d like to see what the numbers are going back to the last few years under Mack.   Want to say we had a couple of classes that were similar.  

[bullet 1,599]

And you people keep saying we're behind in talent, but we had 7 drafted last year, OU 6, OSU 5 and the rest of the conference 16.

The idea that we don't have skill enough to compete in the Big 12 is just fiction.  We aren't Alabama, Ohio St. or Georgia.  So what?  At this point we're trying to win a conference title before getting to the playoffs.

And Alabama had SIX rushing yards vs. LSU on 26 carries with more talent than anybody in the country.  If you've watched them, they miss tackles and drop passes too.  Just not the entire 2nd half like Texas.

[bullet 1,599]

6 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

And here is our problem.   I’d like to see what the numbers are going back to the last few years under Mack.   Want to say we had a couple of classes that were similar.  

I remember the one class Charlie had that was rated really highly depended on several guys from Florida.  One never came.  One left after a week and the other was a receiver who didn't even start by his senior year and was a big disappointment.

[texasstrong12 4,668]

Herman’s recruiting classes ended up being huge busts all in all. 

None of his classes ended up being substantially better than the transition class in ‘17. 

When you look at the busts, transfers, injuries, etc……talent evaluation and recruiting was a much bigger problem than people realized. 

[GTX Horn 1,710]

Both but I think S&C is playing a big role too. Becton was a poor hire.

[texasstrong12 4,668]

4 minutes ago, bullet said:

And you people keep saying we're behind in talent, but we had 7 drafted last year, OU 6, OSU 5 and the rest of the conference 16.

The idea that we don't have skill enough to compete in the Big 12 is just fiction.  We aren't Alabama, Ohio St. or Georgia.  So what?  At this point we're trying to win a conference title before getting to the playoffs.

And Alabama had SIX rushing yards vs. LSU on 26 carries with more talent than anybody in the country.  If you've watched them, they miss tackles and drop passes too.  Just not the entire 2nd half like Texas.

That has nothing to do with the current roster and is a straw man.

When Texas has 2 or 3 players drafted in the next two years what do those previous draft numbers mean? 

Tell me which players are getting drafted in the next 2 years at Texas vs what other rosters had in terms of talent. This roster is more talent deficient than previous rosters and that will be obvious in the next two drafts. 

[Texas Flood 1,356]

8 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Have you seen our recruiting classes the last 5 years? We aren’t ranked 75th. 

"Tell me you don't follow recruiting without telling me you don't follow recruiting"

[Had Enough 2,088]

And you people keep saying we're behind in talent, but we had 7 drafted last year, OU 6, OSU 5 and the rest of the conference 16.
The idea that we don't have skill enough to compete in the Big 12 is just fiction.  We aren't Alabama, Ohio St. or Georgia.  So what?  At this point we're trying to win a conference title before getting to the playoffs.
And Alabama had SIX rushing yards vs. LSU on 26 carries with more talent than anybody in the country.  If you've watched them, they miss tackles and drop passes too.  Just not the entire 2nd half like Texas.

They ultimately lost to A&M in large part due to an uncontested dropped pass. It was low but very catchable. It would have been a first down to keep a late drive alive.

[Had Enough 2,088]

they didn't change jack shit, I'm not one of the guys coming up with all these make believe changes teams are making. Did you respond to the wrong person?

Overall, you are likely correct but didn’t they use a trick play for a 50 yard TD in the second half? Sometimes you need a perfectly timed play call.

And the Breece Hall TD run was a pretty great call. No idea whether they’d run that previously. It should have been stopped for 10 yards though.

After that, we were broken. That was more likely to happen easier after the last 3 games. The offense wasn’t doing Jack then the defense wilted.

[squeegeedegg 723]

1 hour ago, bullet said:

I remember the one class Charlie had that was rated really highly depended on several guys from Florida.  One never came.  One left after a week and the other was a receiver who didn't even start by his senior year and was a big disappointment.

I think you're mixing up a few classes.  The Florida guys were in his transition class and not really highly rated, Cherry was the flake but we got a few solid years out of Davante Davis, his run support from the corner spot was something Herman should thank Charlie for.  Regardless, the 2016 errrbody signing day flurry madness class was the highlight of Strong recruiting.  Brandon Jones, Dev Duv, LJH, Collin Johnson, Chris Brown, Malcolm Roach... Shack (I guess he counts too)  all those guys willed out wins at various points despite Herman.  What Herman himself brought in and signed absolutely pales in comparison (both under his tutelage and now)  The alarm bells for me started ringing in 2018, away at OSU.  They punch us in the mouth and slowly the team inches back with Ehlinger throwing dimes to Ingram on a wheel route and a neat pop pass to Beck.  Then OSU drives down into the red zone.  A good season and a good record on the road, controlling one's own destiny, top 10 ranking, conference championship nearly in sight.  Then Gundy gets Taylor "Corndog" Cornelius on a design run and we've got our "5 star DB" 1 on 1 with him, and the result is... absolutely pathetic.  Piss poor effort is what hits you first, but then I had the realization that actual functional athleticism wasn't there either.  Corndog was the better athlete on that play.  Corndog.

I can't even think about that play for too long before my blood boils.  I said, oh fuck, this is what Herman thought was good... And here we are.

On the coaching front, both of these schemes on O and D are low floor/high ceiling schemes obviously.  Many many coaches could get better results this year but I want a chicken salad that tastes like chicken with tarragon rather than a chicken shit salad sprinkled with parsley. The development discussion will frankly take a few years to judge properly, regardless of who is doing the coaching 

 

Correction Dev Duv fell in Charlie's lap and probably shouldn't be credited as his achievement but I think the greater point still stands

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by squeegeedegg
Correction

[squeegeedegg 723]

1 hour ago, GTX Horn said:

Both but I think S&C is playing a big role too. Becton was a poor hire.

Agreed here, S&C is something that can be judged in many ways relatively quickly, and our guys fail the eye test just in general physique and in strength upon contact, pretty much across the board

[C-Man 27,285]

2 hours ago, troph said:

In my last post I alluded to what I/we know and what I/we don’t know. When it’s time to make a decision with complex variables, it takes time and you have to isolate variables and figure out what we know are problems and see if those can be solved for. Talent isn’t there, that’s known. We think we have good recruiters. We need to tease that out. Scheme is brand new, we think it’s good but we know 5 months of practice isn’t enough to fully install, so we tease that out too. It’s not rocket science, yeah sark was a bad drunk. But the wild cards of sobriety and Saban are huge and we really don’t know who he is as a head coach, we can’t fire him because he “sucked” at USC. We can focus on recruiting and developing players which take way more time than we’ve given him so far. I think good decision making takes us to that point - giving him time to recruit and time to develop players. He might fail but I think it’s well known it hasn’t been long enough to conclude he will. 

Sarkisian didn't suck at USC. He went 9-4 in his first year and was 3-2 in Year 2 when he was fired for his booze problem.

[956 Worldwide 34,794]

2 hours ago, Ignatius said:

First round, not total. Who was the last elite offensive lineman who played high school football in Texas?

Erik McCoy has been nicked a bit this year but is one of the league’s best centers. Dan Moore is starting at OT this year as a rookie. Sam Cosmi and Walker Little are on rosters and very promising players. Kenyon Green is going to be probably one of the top 2 IOL drafted this year. 
 

There are good players out there. To your point, I do think that having most Texas P5 schools in the Big XII leads to OL that are a bit light in the pants and not prepared for the NFL game. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

HS player rankings suck. Yes, they are good at pointing the elite 5-star guys, but after that it's just a jumble. 

Look at an NFL roster. You'd think most of it would be guys from a few elite schools, and every team's roster is studded with dudes from Bama and Ohio State and such.

But then look at any NFL roster. That is not the case. At least half of every roster is made up of dudes who went to second- or third-tier FBS schools or played FCS or even lower. You'd have to assume the vast majority of those guys were not wanted by the bigger schools coming out HS, and there might have been good reasons for that. 18 year-olds are still developing as athletes and humans. That probably about half of all NFL rosters are composed of dudes who went to places like Humboldt State, UAB, Temple, and Boston College, the MAC, and a slew of Florida Directionals, shows us how far the recruiting rankings are from predicting eventual success.

 

The services should be held accountable. It would be interesting to see five-year-reviews of their ratings and include people they didn't rate at all. I am not sure if any of them is better than the next.

 

[D3zii 3,732]

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

Sarkisian didn't suck at USC. He went 9-4 in his first year and was 3-2 in Year 2 when he was fired for his booze problem.

People that keep saying Fire Sark are dumb and don’t watch the game. 
 

Sark schemed up TDs yesterday . The QBs missed the WR

The WRs dropped the passes

The O-Line missed the blocks

 

I mean idk what y’all expect. The man can only put them in so many positions to succeed…I kinda do think the players gave up and that’s fine but I hope Sark remembers that this off-Season when he’s looking for new players 

[DigglerontheHoof 21,255]

14 hours ago, RaysBoomBoomRoom said:

Easiest thing to do is simply ask yourself who on our team would start at UGA,BAMA, or Ohio State? Pretty simple

And we will never get that kind of talent around here until the BMDs start playing the SEC game and opening up their check books.

Until then, we're fucking Cal. 

[troph 24,913]

5 hours ago, C-Man said:

Sarkisian didn't suck at USC. He went 9-4 in his first year and was 3-2 in Year 2 when he was fired for his booze problem.

Nobody here is settling for that. 

[troph 24,913]

3 hours ago, D3zii said:

People that keep saying Fire Sark are dumb and don’t watch the game. 
 

Sark schemed up TDs yesterday . The QBs missed the WR

The WRs dropped the passes

The O-Line missed the blocks

 

I mean idk what y’all expect. The man can only put them in so many positions to succeed…I kinda do think the players gave up and that’s fine but I hope Sark remembers that this off-Season when he’s looking for new players 

He was nitpicking my post, I didn’t say fire him, I said we don’t know if he’s a better coach yet, but we do know talent is horribad and development takes more time than he’s had.

[VaLonghorn99 341]

While we had high hopes for the team this year like every year, the reality is that we fired our coach last year and our senior QB also graduated. So it is possible that the teams we lost are better than us this year.

[Horn Draoi 256]

4 hours ago, D3zii said:

People that keep saying Fire Sark are dumb and don’t watch the game. 
 

Sark schemed up TDs yesterday . The QBs missed the WR

The WRs dropped the passes

The O-Line missed the blocks

 

I mean idk what y’all expect. The man can only put them in so many positions to succeed…I kinda do think the players gave up and that’s fine but I hope Sark remembers that this off-Season when he’s looking for new players 

This!  I thought our quarterbacks were solid and talent in the wide receivers room………………

[stork642 4,500]

16 hours ago, Ultimate Failure said:

No, it's not that simple.  How do you explain our perennial top-10-rated recruiting classes?

Furthermore... Why should we need UGA, Bama or Ohio State's roster to beat Baylor?

I’ll try.  Texas takes a lot of guys who are “rated” high by the recruiting services but aren’t really good at football.  They can run fast, jump high, have great measurables but when they get in a college game with a higher level of talent their lack of football instincts are exposed.  In high school they can get away with not being instinctively good football players because the are so much faster, bigger, etc.   

Edited November 8, 2021 by stork642

[WinningIsHard 4,116]

10 hours ago, troph said:

Sark has had 5 months of practice. That’s virtually nothing if you are looking for talent development. Getting better takes many, many more reps and it starts with fundamentals that don’t even have much of anything to do with strategy and playing the defense as called or the offense as called. The kind of repetition it takes to develop as a player takes 1-2 years, easily. It’s why freshmen rarely play in an established program. 
 

folks talking about talent, are you not listening? The top of the 2018 class is gone. We don’t have 4 and 5 star players as seniors. 2019 class was trashed too. We are playing walk-ons at The University of Texas for crying out loud.  Our talent is 3 star, at best. That’s Iowa State *at best* EXCEPT the ISU program has continuity. 
 

I don’t know about the second half problems. I don’t know if Sark became a different coach getting sober and coaching for Saban. 
 

but the first two points - it takes a shit ton of time to develop players and 5 months isn’t enough and our talent is shit are things I do know. 

I’m willing to take a wait and see on Sark as a coach based on what I do know and recognizing what I don’t know. 

I'm quoting this because people need to read it all again, maybe two more times. You don't change habits in 5 months, it just isn't possible. Tackling, catching, blocking are not things you fix during a fucking season. Matt Rhule handed Aranda a locker room full of positive, well coached football players. Matt Campbell has been at Iowa State building his culture for a long fucking time now. Gundy has tough, resilient football teams because he's been there building it for a decade. Riley took over a program from the second best coach oklahoma has ever had, it was a well oiled machine. Sark and his staff took over a roster full of guys who herman destroyed either mentally, physically or both. He ruined whittington and foster with the over bulking nonsense and that awful tackling we taught killed fosters shoulders. Why didn't we recruit LB's? How do we have a walk on playing 95% of our snaps every game? Why was Colling so fucking lazy at first? How in the actual fuck does Jamison not understand basic special teams play yet? Herb Hand didn't teach our OL a single fucking thing that was useful. I've followed college football for a while now and I only remember a handful of times that a roster hated their coaching staff so bad that they actively pushed recruits away from the program. This was a toxic fucking locker room that Sark took over. If we don't pull some solid kids from the portal then next year will be a rough year also. We need a new WR coach in a bad way, and maybe a better DB coach. 

[stork642 4,500]

59 minutes ago, VaLonghorn99 said:

While we had high hopes for the team this year like every year, the reality is that we fired our coach last year and our senior QB also graduated. So it is possible that the teams we lost are better than us this year.

This.  Always makes me laugh when the last coach sucks so bad at coaching or recruiting that he was fired but the 1st year coach better beat better teams his 1st year or he sucks.  Herman made it look like there was more talent at Texas than there really is by beating a shitty Colorado team with Casey.  Reality is this team probably shouldn’t have even been close with OU, or OSU.  ISU was a really bad match up and I knew that game was going to be bad.  I’m not saying Sark is perfect but at least give him a QB that can complete passes to WIDE open receivers and let’s see if Texas can win some of these games.  The oline is an abortion but I guess Sark was supposed to fix that year 1?  Sure.  

[bad_teammate 13,225]

Do we need better players? Definitely.

Do we need better coaches? Probably.

I have a lot of track record on our coaching staff (not just Sark), and it's really good.

I have some track record on our players, and it's mostly bad.

[Xcalibur 546]

I think it’s the personnel.  I’m firmly in the “give Sark more time” camp.  He’s proven an ability to scheme touchdowns against superior teams, even with our current lackluster roster.  The problem is when our superior opponents make adjustments and the schemes stop working, our players are currently unable to close the deal.

We need better players, period.  I have high hopes for Sark, and It’s far too early to write him off.  Only thing we should be writing off right now is the rest of this season.

[Codaxx 5,884]

10 hours ago, alphahorn said:

Bobby Burton just said something on his latest Youtube segment that really makes a lot of sense. And that is, Tom Herman wanted to build a roster that was capable of competing in a phone booth. In contrast, Sark wants a roster that can compete in space.  He and Nahlin also commented that on defense they are insistent on teaching these guys how to play their scheme and instilling that know how even though their scheme requires high IQ and athletic LB which we don't have.  I'm ok with a longer term build. For better or worse, I really hope this staff succeeds. I'd like to have a coach I like and respect and for me that's Sark.  I hated Herman and although I liked Charlie, he clearly wasn't the right fit.  Our roster sucks, there are no 2 ways about it. We need a reboot and between the portal and recruiting I think we'll get it.

There is a bit of a disconnect with Nahlin. He continues to say the LBs are fast and finesse players that need to be kept clean to run and make plays. At the same time he rails against the DL for 2 gapping and holding up blockers, which he said is necessary for the LBs to play well.  Texas has at least one very athletic LB and he claims that Brock was clocked at the highest MPH amongst the LBs, so I am not sure why he is saying the LBs are unathletic at this point. They are just bad at LB play. They dont read their keys. Bare minimum for any defender is protecting your gap. You can be a very good defense if every player just gets a C and protects his gap. They dont even do that. Ovie is a train wreck on setting the edge. On any given play I will bet that Ovie gets hooked and pinned inside or is 5 yards up the field opening up a huge gap for the RB. 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Codaxx

[Fastbreak 3,996]

I was just watching some of the Gators and LSU podcasts. They were all saying “we need to hit the portal hard to fix our shit.” Every underperforming (non stacked) team is basically saying this.

To think we are going to get enough guys to fix us year 2 is a fallacy. We might get 2-3 guys in the portal and have another few freshman play, but this team is what it is next year also.

[CurlyDumps 4,485]

Jeff Howe did the best deep dive on the “talent” debate I have heard/read. It started on his podcast during the bye week IIRC, and continued that week on his radio show. He examined bust rates going back to Mack’s last few classes, and really broke down the ‘18 and ‘19 classes in particular.  The amount of actual production this team is getting from Herman’s “best” classes, who should be running the show on the field right now, is staggeringly pathetic. He also used Okafor as an example of how much coaching turnover these players have dealt with. Okafor has literally had 5 O-line coaches in 6 years (Wickline, Mattox, Warehime, Hand, Flood) with an idiotic position change wedged in.

None of this is the players’ fault, but it’s not the current staff’s fault either. I’m not a “blame the players” guy. In college especially I believe that even when it’s the players’ fault, it’s the coaches’ fault, since they’re the guys ultimately responsible - and handsomely compensated - for the product on the field. But Howe really opened my eyes to the “talent” issue (which includes coaching and development).
 

I think Herman was headed toward a 2010-like bottoming out season more than I ever realized. Sam, Ossai, and the 4-5 other NFL guys made up for some serious deficiencies on a team that still only finished in 4th place.

[C-Man 27,285]

3 hours ago, troph said:

Nobody here is settling for that. 

Nor will I. I'm just trying to set the record straight that Sark was just getting his USC program going when he got sideways due to the booze. He was not fired for his on-the-field performance. He will need to win at a better clip than 12-6 for sure here. Under Sark's tutelage, Cody Kessler threw for 3800 yards and a 39/5 TD/INT ratio in 2014.

[troph 24,913]

12 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Nor will I. I'm just trying to set the record straight that Sark was just getting his USC program going when he got sideways due to the booze. He was not fired for his on-the-field performance. He will need to win at a better clip than 12-6 for sure here. Under Sark's tutelage, Cody Kessler threw for 3800 yards and a 39/5 TD/INT ratio in 2014.

I’m saying give him time.

[C-Man 27,285]

1 minute ago, troph said:

I’m saying give him time.

Then we are on the same page.

[troph 24,913]

15 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Then we are on the same page.

Maybe read my whole post next time. 😉

[irishtexan 11,522]

11 hours ago, texasstrong12 said:

That has nothing to do with the current roster and is a straw man.

When Texas has 2 or 3 players drafted in the next two years what do those previous draft numbers mean? 

Tell me which players are getting drafted in the next 2 years at Texas vs what other rosters had in terms of talent. This roster is more talent deficient than previous rosters and that will be obvious in the next two drafts. 

I think we'll have more than 2-3 players drafted in the next two years, but I think they'll be late-round picks based on athletic potential rather than production. I could see the following players drafted who would be draft eligible in the next two years. I do not believe all these dudes will get drafted. In fact, most won't. I just think it's possible:

• BJ Foster
• Anthony Cook
• Cade Brewer (Swaim got drafted and I think they're pretty comparable. Noticed Swaim didn't rep UT last night in the Sunday Night Football intro)
• Josh Thompson
• D'Shawn Jamison
• Overshown
• Coburn
• Ojomo
• Bijan
• Alfred Collins

Regardless, you're correct. We don't have a ton of talent on this roster. 

 

[WinningIsHard 4,116]

Has anybody watched Clemson play this year? Without Watson or Lawrence to just dominate the game for long stretches they look like a poorly coached team. Offense is pedestrian and the defense which stays on the field for way to fucking long gets tired and breaks down. They threw 2 interceptions against South Carolina State and their QB has looked awful overall. They have 290 more yards passing than rushing this year. If Clemson can look like shit with poor QB play then I don't know what we expect here lol. 

[C-Man 27,285]

15 minutes ago, WinningIsHard said:

Has anybody watched Clemson play this year? Without Watson or Lawrence to just dominate the game for long stretches they look like a poorly coached team. Offense is pedestrian and the defense which stays on the field for way to fucking long gets tired and breaks down. They threw 2 interceptions against South Carolina State and their QB has looked awful overall. They have 290 more yards passing than rushing this year. If Clemson can look like shit with poor QB play then I don't know what we expect here lol. 

My wife is a Clemson alum and we've watched most of the games -- some have been on concurrently with Texas so I haven't seen every play like I would normally. It seems the common thought is despite all of the talent Dabo has recruited in the last 5+ years Clemson has not done a good job on the OL (sound familiar?). The line is a big problem for Clemson this year. Another thing Clemson has had since we met in 2012 is fantastic quarterbacking in Tajh Boyd, Deshaun Watson and Trevor Lawrence. There was one year where they played Cole Staudt -- and he wasn't very good. Watson soon took over full-time and went on to play for two national championships, winning one. I'm not sure if DJ Uiangaleilei (not even gonna look up the spelling) has "it" but he's looked very, very average this year. But DJ did throw for 400+ yards as a true frosh in last year's regular-season loss to Notre Dame when Lawrence was out with COVID. The Tigers also miss Travis Etienne dearly.

The defense is fucking salty and the only reason Clemson is 6-3. What is admirable is this clearly is Dabo's worst team in quite a few years and they've kept the wheels from falling off.

[pacman 7,371]

You don't get blown out 102 to 27, in the second half of 4 straight comeback losses, due to your players.

Edited November 8, 2021 by pacman

[TwiceHorn 31,562]

30 minutes ago, WinningIsHard said:

Has anybody watched Clemson play this year? Without Watson or Lawrence to just dominate the game for long stretches they look like a poorly coached team. Offense is pedestrian and the defense which stays on the field for way to fucking long gets tired and breaks down. They threw 2 interceptions against South Carolina State and their QB has looked awful overall. They have 290 more yards passing than rushing this year. If Clemson can look like shit with poor QB play then I don't know what we expect here lol. 

And, they most assuredly have better talent, by recruiting ranking and actual developed talent, except at QB, apparently, than their ACC competition.

Is someone going to contend that Dabo is now a fuckup?

[RaysBoomBoomRoom 5,742]

"Our Coaches Suck"

 

[Texaspython 231]

19 minutes ago, pacman said:

You don't get blown out 102 to 27, in the second half of 4 straight comeback losses, due to your players.

Yes, you can.

[Texaspython 231]

10 minutes ago, RaysBoomBoomRoom said:

"Our Coaches Suck"

 

This, watching our defense be in the right spots on alignment then run themselves out of position or get mauled has been terrible. It’s not on the coaches yet.

[texasstrong12 4,668]

2 minutes ago, Texaspython said:

This, watching our defense be in the right spots on alignment then run themselves out of position or get mauled has been terrible. It’s not on the coaches yet.

The 2nd half of the OU game was missed tackles and 50/50 balls we didn't make plays on in the secondary. They were in position most of the time. 

That Ian Boyd clip above is the entire 2nd half against OU. 

The coaches need to do a better job but the players are just bad. It is what it is. 

 

[C-Man 27,285]

2 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

I was just watching some of the Gators and LSU podcasts. They were all saying “we need to hit the portal hard to fix our shit.” Every underperforming (non stacked) team is basically saying this.

To think we are going to get enough guys to fix us year 2 is a fallacy. We might get 2-3 guys in the portal and have another few freshman play, but this team is what it is next year also.

 

1 hour ago, CurlyDumps said:

Jeff Howe did the best deep dive on the “talent” debate I have heard/read. It started on his podcast during the bye week IIRC, and continued that week on his radio show. He examined bust rates going back to Mack’s last few classes, and really broke down the ‘18 and ‘19 classes in particular.  The amount of actual production this team is getting from Herman’s “best” classes, who should be running the show on the field right now, is staggeringly pathetic. He also used Okafor as an example of how much coaching turnover these players have dealt with. Okafor has literally had 5 O-line coaches in 6 years (Wickline, Mattox, Warehime, Hand, Flood) with an idiotic position change wedged in.

None of this is the players’ fault, but it’s not the current staff’s fault either. I’m not a “blame the players” guy. In college especially I believe that even when it’s the players’ fault, it’s the coaches’ fault, since they’re the guys ultimately responsible - and handsomely compensated - for the product on the field. But Howe really opened my eyes to the “talent” issue (which includes coaching and development).
 

I think Herman was headed toward a 2010-like bottoming out season more than I ever realized. Sam, Ossai, and the 4-5 other NFL guys made up for some serious deficiencies on a team that still only finished in 4th place.

We need a QB we can ride-or-die with and that's most likely coming from the portal. I don't think we're in on any 2022 QB's that can step right in as a true frosh and contribute. It won't solve all of our ills but it will help. Let's say this season ends 6-6 (wishful thinking, I know). Get a better QB than Thompson/Card and we creep to 8 wins next year and we're making strides. We will know by Year 3 whether Sark is going to be here awhile or not.

[WinningIsHard 4,116]

28 minutes ago, RaysBoomBoomRoom said:

"Our Coaches Suck"

 

Is that alfred collins that gets pushed inside by a smaller less athletic white kid? LOLLLLLLLL. Bo davis must blow 

[mdmost 43,056]

31 minutes ago, RaysBoomBoomRoom said:

"Our Coaches Suck"

 

What exactly is 25 doing there? Throwing his entire body at Breece Hall to try to stop him?