2021-22 MLB Offseason Thread

[Scraps 13,570]

Welp looks like we are going to hit the stalemate that was feared. MLB giving one last "take it or leave it" offer by 5pm ET. Sounds like shit has fallen apart today.

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

sounds like it was never close and MLB was using the false 'we're close' to put blame on mlbpa

 

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

 

[Scraps 13,570]

I mean they had made strides, but it was still far apart....and like castles made of sand they fall into the sea eventually.

Maybe by june 1st lol

[Firemans4Horn 18,119]

Fuck the owners. 
 

this is 100% me:

 

 

[TonyTexas 10,524]

13 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

Fuck the owners. 
 

this is 100% me:

 

 

The game needs more lifelong fans like you. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by TonyTexas

[Wulaw Horn 19,147]

1 hour ago, Scraps said:

I mean they had made strides, but it was still far apart....and like castles made of sand they fall into the sea eventually.

Maybe by june 1st lol

Agreement?  Or start time? 

I just got hit my last installment on my season tickets for $1600 or something like that. Which is awesome b/c if they really do stay out and start late not only will they jerk with me about getting my money I'm sure, but that will make the value of the product I bought less valuable.  Good times. Good times.  

 

[Jameslaw121 4,448]

21 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Agreement?  Or start time? 

I just got hit my last installment on my season tickets for $1600 or something like that. Which is awesome b/c if they really do stay out and start late not only will they jerk with me about getting my money I'm sure, but that will make the value of the product I bought less valuable.  Good times. Good times.  

 

yeah -  for the first time in I don't know how many years, I cancelled my mlb.tv league pass (or whatever it's called) for this season.

[David Dennison 18,946]

First two series of the season officially cancelled.

[The Ace of Aces 5,194]

Fuck mlb owners. Why does that Pirates owner even care about the CBT - it’s not like they are trying wi tin games.  .

[Wulaw Horn 19,147]

11 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

First two series of the season officially cancelled.

That's not too terribly bad right now. I had thought they were cancelling an entire month.  If they keep it at 2 series they might actually be able to do 162. 

Hell- maybe this is their nefarious plan- cancel regular season b/c the post season pays the bills.  That would be so penny wise and pound foolish.  

Bad look for everyone.  The media is slurping off the players but they were the ones who demanded a great change from the status quo (I get why), and decided marginal improvement wasn't good enough.  64% of players earn the league minimum.  MLB was ready to go to $700k in minimum salary, which is a 20% raise I think, plus throw bonus pool money at those guys and do some other stuff to make things better.  They decided that wasn't enough. I'm sure this is about the CBT tax and the like. That's protection of the stars money more than anything.  Baseball's upper class wasn't exactly doing bad in this last deal.

None of this is me saying that I'm taking the owners side.  They clearly didn't negotiate until the very end. Which sucks.  $700k really could have been $750k or $800k or hell, even $1,000,000.00.  They could have thrown in a floor at $100,000,000.00 on payroll.  The teams with $30,000,000 payrolls are gross. If your market can't afford 100 million then sell the team to someone who can, or move it somewhere will that will work.  The owners are duplicitous shit bags that have to be pulled kicking and screaming into being the protectors of the game.  My suggestion on the floor (combined with the draft lottery and incentives not to manipulate service time) would make the game better.  They should do that.  

Hope it's a week.  Or at least less than a month.  Have no interest in another bullshit 60 game season.  Baseball might as well have not existed for me that year. 

[Jshep34 2,320]

Amazes me how a sport can constantly shot themselves in the foot in every way possible

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[cabowabo 4,514]

Another asterisk season and championship. Fuck the ass holes on both sides.

[TonyTexas 10,524]

It’s amazing how terrible Manfred is as a spokesman for the game. He does or says something stupid every time he’s behind a mike. Here he is yucking  it up while he’s bringing down the hammer on baseball

 

[The Ace of Aces 5,194]

10 minutes ago, cabowabo said:

Another asterisk season and championship. Fuck the ass holes on both sides.

Only one side locked out players, didn’t negotiate, then did and lied, then walked away - all without even attempting to make any concessions. This is 100% the fault of owners.  A lockout was not even necessarily. 

[Guadaloopy 11,012]

16 minutes ago, The Ace of Aces said:

Only one side locked out players, didn’t negotiate, then did and lied, then walked away - all without even attempting to make any concessions. This is 100% the fault of owners.  A lockout was not even necessarily. 

This is horseshit.  The players share just as much blame.  Ownership moved a lot towards players in the negotiations.  Players wouldn’t budge hardly at all from their entering arguments.  It’s the players who don’t want to negotiate.   And everything - everything - the players want is slanted towards a few mega contracts getting bigger.  The average player is getting screwed over by the big names.   

[The Ace of Aces 5,194]

1 minute ago, Guadaloopy said:

This is horseshit.  The players share just as much blame.  Ownership moved a lot towards players in the negotiations.  Players wouldn’t budge hardly at all from their entering arguments.  It’s the players who don’t want to negotiate.   And everything - everything - the players want is slanted towards a few mega contracts getting bigger.  The average player is getting screwed over by the big names.   

This is wrong but I don’t have the time or energy to argue. All I’ll say is it took MLB more than 40 days to make its first offer after its lockout. The MLBPA offered to play under the existing CBA initially and crickets. 

MLBPA asked for reasonable luxury tax figures of 238M, 244, 250, 256 and 263. MLB offered 220M, 220, 220, 224 and 230. A total joke,

[Dbeasy 15,086]

On the backs of Covid and Ukraine, hey tone deaf, spoiled brat mlb players and billionaire owners..

[Had Enough 2,088]

I was looking forward to Opening Day versus the Yanks.

At least my tickets are still good for opening day, whenever that happens.

[TonyTexas 10,524]

1 hour ago, The Ace of Aces said:

MLBPA asked for reasonable luxury tax figures of 238M, 244, 250, 256 and 263. MLB offered 220M, 220, 220, 224 and 230

Reasonable to whom? To me, a big raise in the CBT levels was the least defensible of the players asks. All it would accomplish is allow even bigger contracts for the MLB 1%.  And it certainly wasn’t going to help the competitive balance of the league. For the most part, only big market teams approach it. 
 

The bigger issues are those that allow younger players to make more sooner, whether that comes from higher minimum salaries, minimum payrolls or shortened club control. That affects way more players in a meaningful way. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by TonyTexas

[Wulaw Horn 19,147]

1 hour ago, TonyTexas said:

Reasonable to whom? To me, a big raise in the CBT levels was the least defensible of the players asks. All it would accomplish is allow even bigger contracts for the MLB 1%.  And it certainly wasn’t going to help the competitive balance of the league. For the most part, only big market teams approach it. 
 

The bigger issues are those that allow younger players to make more sooner, whether that comes from higher minimum salaries, minimum payrolls or shortened club control. That affects way more players in a meaningful way. 

Yep. And raising the minimum salary from 550 to 700 and the bonus pool was a good way to get more money to the majority of the union. 
again- 63% of players make the minimum. I bet the owners would have gone a little higher than that at the expense of the CBT. 

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

Fuck Manfred.  Fuck the owners.  That is all.

[Steamboat1874 4,085]

So since MLB has taken control of the minor leagues how does it affect their season?

[Scraps 13,570]

Business as usual I think 

[Beau Vine 54,395]

13 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Fuck Manfred.  Fuck the owners.  That is all.

I'd like to apologize to Gary Bettman for previously suggesting that he was the worst commissioner in the history of organized sports.

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

5 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

I'd like to apologize to Gary Bettman for previously suggesting that he was the worst commissioner in the history of organized sports.

Oh hey, while you're here...I let my athletic sub expire.  Just didn't read it enough.

If you still have your sub could you post this one for me?

https://theathletic.com/3158171/2022/03/02/rosenthal-mlbs-owners-had-every-advantage-and-still-it-wasnt-enough-for-them/

 

TIA

 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11,669]

17 hours ago, Guadaloopy said:

.   And everything - everything - the players want is slanted towards a few mega contracts getting bigger.  The average player is getting screwed over by the big names.   

Players wanted to build in about a 40% pay raise to the minimum salary.

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by MC Fresh Breath

[Guadaloopy 11,012]

1 hour ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Players wanted to build in about a 40% pay raise to the minimum salary.

And the owners offered about a 30% increase.   But that is not the major sticking point for the MLBPA.   They want to raise the luxury tax threshold.  That’s all about getting bigger contracts for the big names.   Mid-level and below players won’t see commensurate raises with a higher CBT.  That will all be eaten up by the big fish.  

[Beau Vine 54,395]

1 hour ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Oh hey, while you're here...I let my athletic sub expire.  Just didn't read it enough.

If you still have your sub could you post this one for me?

https://theathletic.com/3158171/2022/03/02/rosenthal-mlbs-owners-had-every-advantage-and-still-it-wasnt-enough-for-them/

 

TIA

 

Quote

How dare they. That’s all I keep thinking. How dare commissioner Rob Manfred and the baseball owners treat their players and their fans like this. Don’t they recognize the impact of canceling games, the damage it will do to the sport, the idea that baseball is more than simply an industry, bigger than anyone lucky enough to be a part of it?

Oh, Manfred and the owners will object to that very premise, tell you all about their love for the game and how the other side is more to blame. Manfred said it himself Tuesday, “If it was solely within my ability or the ability of the clubs to get an agreement, we’d have an agreement.” Yep, if not for those damn players that fans pay to see — if only Manfred and Co. could remove them from these negotiations the way they scrubbed them from the league’s website — then everything would be all right.

Manfred and Co. think the fans will come back, because they always come back. They think the players ultimately will break, and in fact that might be the league’s goal. The owners initiated a lockout three months ago, then made a belated, strategic bull rush toward the players on Monday and Tuesday. Naturally, their last-minute pressure backfired, just as everything in this relationship backfires. As Manfred listed all of the wonders in the league’s “best and final” offer, it was as if he could not believe the players’ ingratitude.

The players, of course, took a slightly different view of the league’s supposed generosity, and now the first two series of the season are canceled, with possibly more to come. Manfred said weeks ago that losing games would be a disastrous outcome. In the end, that outcome was practically a foregone conclusion, a train wreck everyone saw coming, yet still could not be avoided.

Signs of trouble were obvious since at least the summer of 2020, when the players and owners could not agree on the terms of the pandemic-shortened season. Or, go back to Nov. 30, 2016, when both club officials and player agents identified a freshly minted collective-bargaining agreement as too favorable to the owners faster than you could say “CBT.”

The parties fought over almost everything, from a universal DH to expanded playoffs to the owners’ proposal for a shortened 2021 season because of lingering COVID-19 concerns. See the forest for the trees? The players and owners could not even get through the weeds. So, no one should be surprised that, in the final hours before the sport’s collapse, they disagreed about whether they had even been close to a deal.

They were not, despite the league’s propaganda to the contrary. And now, even though Manfred and the owners are responsible for the lockout, the deadlines and yes, the false hope, both sides must face the consequences. And, as the owners are well aware, those consequences for the players are likely to be worse.

This is not to suggest the players should have caved and accepted an offer they viewed as inadequate. The luxury-tax thresholds in the owners’ final offer were not high enough. The size of their proposed pre-arbitration bonus pool was too low. But you’re tired of reading about all that. I’m tired of writing about it. The aspect that is truly unconscionable is the almost blithe, even reckless approach by Manfred and the owners.

It’s not simply that Manfred at times smiled during his news conference Tuesday when he should have been more solemn; by now, his inadequacies as a public speaker are well-established. The bigger problem is that he and the owners have been unable to build a functional relationship with the players, and are unapologetic about it.

The players, in turn, view Manfred and Co. with contempt, a sentiment that helped unify them, but now will result in lost paychecks. Union negotiator Bruce Meyer said the players will fight for back pay and/or the rescheduling of canceled games, introducing yet another layer of conflict to this dispute. But the ramifications for players run deeper. For starters, the owners can outlast them.

April is typically a month of low attendance and revenue for many clubs, particularly those in colder climates. Local television contracts generally do not require clubs to issue rebates to their networks until about 25 games are missed, according to a source with knowledge of such deals. And the big money in the league’s national-television contracts comes from the postseason.

Players, on the other hand, are still recovering from the shortened 2020 season when they received only 37 percent of their pay. The union, drawing on its reserves, has authorized a monthly stipend of $15,000 for April, and its executive board will determine the next steps for future months if necessary. But if Meyer fails to restore the players’ full pay and service time, they will collectively lose $20.5 million for each day removed from the 186-day regular-season schedule. Once 15 days are missed, the free-agent eligibility of star players such as Shohei Ohtani and Pete Alonso could be delayed by one year, and the service time of hundreds of others will be affected as well.

The players have talked about striking back by refusing to approve expanded playoffs, an item the owners greatly desire, for at least 2022. The owners, though, can exact perhaps an even greater toll, reacting to their loss of revenue by clamping down on the free-agent market for all but superstars such as Carlos Correa and Freddie Freeman, and maybe even those players as well.

For the union, how exactly is this going to end well? It would be one thing if players were missing games to significantly disrupt the status quo, but they withdrew requests for major changes to the game’s economic system — a shorter time to free agency, expanded eligibility for salary arbitration, reductions in revenue shared between high- and low-revenue teams.

The remaining points of contention were in areas such as the luxury tax, pre-arbitration bonus pool and minimum salary. Any gains the players ultimately achieve, if they achieve them at all, figure to be incremental, singles instead of home runs. And, if the lockout lasts long enough, the players could be looking at a net loss.

The owners know all this, and still they couldn’t help themselves, couldn’t resist going for the throat. They, too, could end up net losers, depending upon how much the sport’s place in the entertainment landscape is diminished. But they seemingly would rather take that risk than satisfy the players who pitch and hit and make teams so valuable.

Which is the true shame in all this. The owners had the advantage. The owners, even if they had yielded to every one of the union’s last requests, were always going to have the advantage. The fallacy of the nearly $500 million they offered young players in additional compensation is that it might have amounted to little more than a redistribution. By paying mid-level veterans less, the owners could have kept payrolls roughly the same.

From the start, then, the players lacked leverage, were climbing uphill, had the odds stacked against them. The pandemic made their challenge that much more difficult, reducing club revenues in the past two seasons. The owners base their payrolls on those revenues, not the resale values of their franchises.

Perhaps the players should have asked for a one-year extension of the previous CBA, delaying the negotiations until a time when revenues had more fully recovered. But the players believed they could no longer wait for change, and it’s not as if the owners were guaranteed to be in a more giving mood. Before the pandemic hit, the clubs were delighting in their triumphs in the previous two CBAs, exploiting their terms to the fullest.

“The game has suffered damage for a while now. The game has changed. The game has been manipulated,” said Tony Clark, head of the players’ union. “The value inherent, and how players are respected and viewed, has changed. Players have been commoditized in a way that is really hard to explain in the grand scheme of things.”

It’s actually not that hard to explain, if you view baseball strictly as a business and understand the nature of capitalism. But baseball became the national pastime because it occupied a special place in the national consciousness. Manfred and the owners are messing with something dear to their players, dear to their fans, dear to so many people not just in this country, but also around the world.

The owners wanted to win in another rout. Now everyone loses.

 

[Beau Vine 54,395]

11 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

And the owners offered about a 30% increase.   But that is not the major sticking point for the MLBPA.   They want to raise the luxury tax threshold.  That’s all about getting bigger contracts for the big names.   Mid-level and below players won’t see commensurate raises with a higher CBT.  That will all be eaten up by the big fish.  

This is nonsense.  Any player that qualifies for free agency would benefit from higher CBT thresholds.

 

[Wulaw Horn 19,147]

1 hour ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Players wanted to build in about a 40% pay raise to the minimum salary.

Didn't they get a 27% increase in minimum agreed to (something like 550 to 700K). My bet is they could have gotten even more with agreeing to the 220 tax threshold. 

63% of them make the minimum. I believe the number of guys that ever make it to FA is something like 20% of the league, and a lot of those guys are on the downside of their careers.  Less than 10% of guys make the 10 years in the league for a full pension- that's an incredible accomplishment making it that far in the game. 

If the players collectively were about the rank and file they wouldn't have given up on service time manipulation and an age based FA so quickly. They never argued it. If they wanted to go to war over that I would have understood them wanting to burn it down. But they didn't.  

The average rank and file member would have seen improvements in this deal vs the last deal.  Enough improvements even to matter.  The CBT tax line is the owners thing that they care about the most.  The less that gets messed with the more they are fine with raising minimum salaries and all that stuff.  

The mega stars are coopting the rank and file guys.  Cool. No problem. I guess the rank and file guys just figure they are going to get theirs some day even though it's statistically unlikely that they will.  

Edited March 2, 2022 by Wulaw Horn

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

11 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

 

Thanks, friend.

[WBT 20,658]

47 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

And the owners offered about a 30% increase.   But that is not the major sticking point for the MLBPA.   They want to raise the luxury tax threshold.  That’s all about getting bigger contracts for the big names.   Mid-level and below players won’t see commensurate raises with a higher CBT.  That will all be eaten up by the big fish.  

Why shouldn't the CBT thresholds raise commensurate with revenue?  Why should it be an either/or?  I agree that pre-arb players should make more (I'd shoot for a minimum of 1MM) but the CBT amounts also need to go up.

[Wulaw Horn 19,147]

There's two competing things here that I don't get/think is pretty gross.

Owners could do better with their money elsewhere- I don't doubt that.  The benefit of being an owner is it makes you visible, maybe popular etc.  Why they would flush that away I don't get.

Players just didn't have any real greater working principle here.  They agreed to a structure that is pretty inherently unfair and sold the kids down the road as they do at every turn.  If it's going to be that way and you aren't going to fight over principle then just take your increase and move on.  

Sucks- b/c I think they are likely harming the game. I will be there (probably) whenever opening day is b/c I'm pot committed, but I'm less likely to be angry than the common fan and any wins that the players could get with a slightly better deal or the owners can get with a slightly better deal probably don't override whatever harm they are doing to their product.  If they miss a week no big deal. I don't see how it will be less than a month- but 2 months seems even more likely.  And that will be a big problem for them.   Both.  

 

 

[Wulaw Horn 19,147]

13 minutes ago, WBT said:

Why shouldn't the CBT thresholds raise commensurate with revenue?  Why should it be an either/or?  I agree that pre-arb players should make more (I'd shoot for a minimum of 1MM) but the CBT amounts also need to go up.

$1,000,000 is what I think is probably the best/fairest number around. The CBT thresholds were ready to go up- just at 3%. Could they have gotten 5%? Maybe. Their initial ask was 15% and that was never going to happen, especially with lost revenue the past 2 years due to COVID- I can't imagine MLB is flush with that crappy 2020 and then plenty of places not being fully operational in 2021.  

[clapclapclap 9,000]

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by clapclapclap
Honk if you hate Manfred

[Scraps 13,570]

Jesus christ losers 

And yes I know who Frank the Tank is 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Scraps

[Beau Vine 54,395]

3 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

If the players collectively were about the rank and file they wouldn't have given up on service time manipulation and an age based FA so quickly. They never argued it. If they wanted to go to war over that I would have understood them wanting to burn it down. But they didn't.  

The owners made it clear very early on that they were not willing to negotiate that stuff, so the PA pulled it off the table.

[Wulaw Horn 19,147]

1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

The owners made it clear very early on that they were not willing to negotiate that stuff, so the PA pulled it off the table.

Oh, I'm aware of that completely.  What I'm saying is that if they were going to give in to that, which is a matter of principle and might actually be worth arguing over as to actual fairness, then they should have just taken whatever the best deal on the table was that they were going to get- because chasing an extra $5,000,000 in the CBT tax would be less valuable than, you know, just taking the deal on the table, not losing wages, and not destroying good will.  

FA would have been worth drawing a line in the sand over and fighting as a matter of principle. Instead they took a pass on that and argued over dimes (CBT increase) while giving up dollars (their actual wages). 

[TonyTexas 10,524]

3 hours ago, WBT said:

Why shouldn't the CBT thresholds raise commensurate with revenue?  Why should it be an either/or?  I agree that pre-arb players should make more (I'd shoot for a minimum of 1MM) but the CBT amounts also need to go up.

There were only 8 teams within 10% of CBT levels in 2021.  All big market or superstar heavy.  All 4 L.A. and NY teams, Boston, SD, Philly and Houston. Only the Dodgers was over. They could take the CBT level to $300M and the only result would be the usual suspects would widen the upper end talent disparity at the expense of competitive balance. 

[UTexasFight 9,527]

Shamelessly stolen from the twitters…. (NSIAP)

 

Bobby Bonilla might be the highest paid player in baseball this year 

[Wulaw Horn 19,147]

Put another way- the NBA players- in a league where ownership and the union trust each other on the books, took a pretty massive fucking hair cut with everything going on COVID wise, right?  Because the revenue just wasn't there.

People are talking like revenue keeps going up but baseball is more dependent on gate as a percentage of revenue than any other sport.  2020 their gate was essentially zero. 2021 it was way down.  25% capacity in April. 50% capacity in May.  Some places never got back to 100% capacity I didn't think.  This was a really bad time for everyone for this agreement to be up.  They should have kicked the can down the road a year and played under the old agreement and see how everyone felt with all of the country being open for business 100%, no mask mandates, etc., and see how that dealt with attendance/revenue rebounding. 

[Beau Vine 54,395]

1 hour ago, TonyTexas said:

There were only 8 teams within 10% of CBT levels in 2021.  All big market or superstar heavy.  All 4 L.A. and NY teams, Boston, SD, Philly and Houston. Only the Dodgers was over. They could take the CBT level to $300M and the only result would be the usual suspects would widen the upper end talent disparity at the expense of competitive balance. 

Why are you harping on competitive balance repeatedly?  MLB has less issue with competitive balance than any other league in this country, and the owners don't seem to care about it, because they proposed absolute bupkis to stop the tanking.

[UTexasFight 9,527]

57 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Put another way- the NBA players- in a league where ownership and the union trust each other on the books, took a pretty massive fucking hair cut with everything going on COVID wise, right?  Because the revenue just wasn't there.

People are talking like revenue keeps going up but baseball is more dependent on gate as a percentage of revenue than any other sport.  2020 their gate was essentially zero. 2021 it was way down.  25% capacity in April. 50% capacity in May.  Some places never got back to 100% capacity I didn't think.  This was a really bad time for everyone for this agreement to be up.  They should have kicked the can down the road a year and played under the old agreement and see how everyone felt with all of the country being open for business 100%, no mask mandates, etc., and see how that dealt with attendance/revenue rebounding. 

I hear ya…

except the players had been looking forward to Dec 1, 2021 since about December 1, 2017.

[HtownHorn 14,763]

On 3/1/2022 at 5:25 PM, The Ace of Aces said:

MLBPA asked for reasonable luxury tax figures of 238M, 244, 250, 256 and 263. MLB offered 220M, 220, 220, 224 and 230. A total joke,

Don't get caught up in the PA's negotiating tactics of complete bullshit starting points and then come down a little to say, "See we are negotiating in good faith."

Edited March 3, 2022 by HtownHorn

[Wulaw Horn 19,147]

Also, major pet peeve of mine- stop taking about asset prices appreciation. That has nothing to do with a year over year business plan. I’d you told a homeowner he should love his rent by 10% and operate at a loss (or earn less profit) because his house went up in value 20% he would mock and ridicule you, rightfully so. The “oh your asset has appreciated you owe me more money in an operating sense is nonsense. If sports journalists weren’t moron who don’t understand the way the world works they wouldn’t say stuff like that (maybe they would- some of them a disingenuous cunts) because it’s illogical in talking about a CBA. 
I’m not mad. I’m irritated about the dipshitedness all the way around. 

[TonyTexas 10,524]

2 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Why are you harping on competitive balance repeatedly?  MLB has less issue with competitive balance than any other league in this country, and the owners don't seem to care about it, because they proposed absolute bupkis to stop the tanking.

I just think that the players made a mistake prioritizing CBT levels. It guarantees no additional money. And you’re wrong about the absence of anti-tanking discussions. The owners proposed a draft lottery. 

[Texas Wahoo 3,403]

8 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Also, major pet peeve of mine- stop taking about asset prices appreciation. That has nothing to do with a year over year business plan. I’d you told a homeowner he should love his rent by 10% and operate at a loss (or earn less profit) because his house went up in value 20% he would mock and ridicule you, rightfully so. The “oh your asset has appreciated you owe me more money in an operating sense is nonsense. If sports journalists weren’t moron who don’t understand the way the world works they wouldn’t say stuff like that (maybe they would- some of them a disingenuous cunts) because it’s illogical in talking about a CBA. 
I’m not mad. I’m irritated about the dipshitedness all the way around. 

Maybe people would stop talking about the value of teams if they provided any information about the operating profits. Since they do not (other than the Braves), all anyone can talk about is their skyrocketing team values. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,147]

2 hours ago, Texas Wahoo said:

Maybe people would stop talking about the value of teams if they provided any information about the operating profits. Since they do not (other than the Braves), all anyone can talk about is their skyrocketing team values. 

I mean, the industry spends something like 57% of its revenue on salaries, more than any other sports league, and with 162 games the operating costs aren’t exactly small. Do they lose money like they claim?  Some of them probably do. None of them are making huge dollars (except maybe the Yankees now that they’ve decided not to spend as much as they could). 
I’d be pretty surprised if anyone was doing much better than 10-20% profit margin. There just aren’t huge margins in pro sports. Even the appreciation is overstated a bit. If those guys would have stuck their money in an index fund they probably would have done pretty similar throughout most periods of time of the market. 
people don’t own baseball teams because it’s a great investment. They own them as a means of telling the world that they are made men.  That doesn’t mean that they should be compelled to treat the players as a special class Of labor that’s paid out according to asset appreciation. That’s literally absurd.