Energy Transition

[FartingMonk 3606]

Carbon credits are the devil

[CHEF DIESEL 126]

Small community of Dike, Texas east of Dallas is going to be destroyed by huge solar farms owned by foreign corporations. Solar ain't all that green.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/a-battle-of-green-against-green-in-this-texas-community/2021/07/30/836a6e4c-eaf7-11eb-ba5d-55d3b5ffcaf1_story.html

[billfromlaketravis 11352]

I’ve reluctantly accepted nuclear as the best way to fix the holes in the Texas power grid. It’s cheap, extremely reliable, and clean if operated correctly. 

 

[YChang 3430]

Small community of Dike, Texas east of Dallas is going to be destroyed by huge solar farms owned by foreign corporations. Solar ain't all that green.
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/a-battle-of-green-against-green-in-this-texas-community/2021/07/30/836a6e4c-eaf7-11eb-ba5d-55d3b5ffcaf1_story.html

So big solar is able to screw over people toward profit just as well as fossil fuel companies. Green energy is catching up!

[Dahobbs 17420]

4 hours ago, CHEF DIESEL said:

Small community of Dike, Texas east of Dallas is going to be destroyed by huge solar farms owned by foreign corporations. Solar ain't all that green.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/a-battle-of-green-against-green-in-this-texas-community/2021/07/30/836a6e4c-eaf7-11eb-ba5d-55d3b5ffcaf1_story.html

Despite the title, the issues in this article having nothing to do with greenness except to the extent that money is green. 

[Guest]

On 11/8/2021 at 2:06 PM, Grimas said:

Watch this (posted on another thread) - it's a bit slow at first but sets the foundation for their conclusions...

 

I posted that on the Oil Barons thread. I’m an oil and gas guy. I’ll get caught up on this thread later. GoRozen is the best research group out there, and today at lunch I’ll be seeing a guy from Wood Mackenzie where this topic (among others) will be broached. 

[YChang 3430]

Just watched that video. Holy hell, didn't quite need the History Channel portion but let's do it, we need a healthy mix of sources while transitioning away from fossil fuel. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by YChang

[sunset87 240]

This is a good video done by Scott Tinker, the Director of the BEG in Austin.

[Orale 1087]

This seems like a cool idea. 

 

[Biff Tannen 45477]

On 12/2/2021 at 11:41 AM, sunset87 said:

This is a good video done by Scott Tinker, the Director of the BEG in Austin.

This was posted in another thread somewhere and he has been debunked as an oil company shill.  He's not 100% wrong, but he twists the truth in a lot of ways.  

[Biff Tannen 45477]

6 hours ago, Orale said:

This seems like a cool idea. 

 

It's fucking amazing how advanced Europe is in terms of at least THINKING about alternative energy and how to implement it, while we sit here like a bunch of putzes.  

[TwiceHorn 31184]

10 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

It's fucking amazing how advanced Europe is in terms of at least THINKING about alternative energy and how to implement it, while we sit here like a bunch of putzes.  

Probably because most of Europe has no fossil fuel reserves, or a dwindling or dwindled supply of coal.

Edited January 10, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[FartingMonk 3606]

The whole necessity is the mother of innovation.

[sunset87 240]

51 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This was posted in another thread somewhere and he has been debunked as an oil company shill.  He's not 100% wrong, but he twists the truth in a lot of ways.  

Well Tinker is the director of the BEG which is the oldest research unit of UT. It’s the state geological survey of Texas. He worked for O&G in the past. But to say he’s is an “oil company shill” and the referenced presentation he did has been “debunked”, is flat out wrong. I’d love to hear about all this “debunking “ supposedly done.

The guy has a pretty impeccable reputation and was asked to be the Assistant Secretary of Energy under Chu in the first term of the Obama administration. Not sure that would happen for an “oil company shill”.

[BabaYaga 15202]

20 hours ago, Orale said:

This seems like a cool idea. 

 

So.....refurbish and repurpose College Station?

[Humble Beast 258]

If we’re supposed to be serious about the energy transition then proponents need to set aside Nimbyism. 
 

Raw materials and processing need to be brought onshore asap. 
 

This guy is a European. It makes sense  for them to switch from Russian NG to Chinese renewables. For a largely energy self sufficient country like ours, it makes much less. 
 

 

[Humble Beast 258]

🤔 

[Biff Tannen 45477]

Someone is going to pump billions into the Salton Sea and solve this for the US.

[Humble Beast 258]

 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10134]

Lithium batteries are on the clock. Solid state alternatives are already in testing.

[Captainant 27310]

12 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Lithium batteries are on the clock. Solid state alternatives are already in testing.

Super capacitors are another interesting angle on this too. Much faster charge/discharge cycles, and graphine/graphite are a hell of a lot easier to source than lithium

[tomahawk dunk 318]

It's time to go all in on AMYZF.

[Biff Tannen 45477]

On 9/29/2022 at 6:18 AM, Captainant said:

Super capacitors are another interesting angle on this too. Much faster charge/discharge cycles, and graphine/graphite are a hell of a lot easier to source than lithium

This is something I've been waiting for.  Game changer if we can get it done.

[troph 24547]

On 1/9/2022 at 9:08 PM, Biff Tannen said:

This was posted in another thread somewhere and he has been debunked as an oil company shill.  He's not 100% wrong, but he twists the truth in a lot of ways.  

His comments about advancing economies as the number one predictor of local environmental cleanliness is very compelling. His comments about climate change and how the best we can hope for is a natural gas economy not so much. 

[Humble Beast 258]

Record high coal demand. 

Going to need hydrocarbons, net zero/Greta nonsense notwithstanding.  If we don’t pull out enough clean burning ones, then governments will go to coal. Need to adjust course. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Humble Beast

[Humble Beast 258]

$114T?  That’s a big number. 
 

I guess if $3.8T moves the needle 1% away from fossil fuels, then a linear projection would put $114T moving it 30%. 
 

 

[Humble Beast 258]

 

[Dahobbs 17420]

On 10/7/2022 at 9:46 AM, Humble Beast said:

$114T?  That’s a big number. 
 

I guess if $3.8T moves the needle 1% away from fossil fuels, then a linear projection would put $114T moving it 30%. 
 

 

Well that is a load of misleading bullshit. 1) Comparing percentages as opposed to value, 2) comparing all primary energy consumption as if that is where the investment has been as opposed to electrical generation where the investment has actually been, 3) failing to clarify that he is talking about global numbers (which, duh, of course those are going to be big), and 4) and failing to account for the offset caused by reduction in use nuclear energy.

If you focus on the change in renewables (other than nuclear), the return on investment we are supposedly tracking here, you'll see that globally they increase 31% over that 10 year period. And their percentage of total primary energy consumption goes from 16% to 19%. You also appear to embrace the false assumption that getting to net-zero means moving away entirely from fossil fuel in terms of total primary energy production. But it doesn't. The goal is net-zero, not zero. All the studies I have seen still have fossil fuel use making up a good percentage of total primary energy, even up to 64% of total primary energy in a net-zero environment.  

Also, the actual numbers for the US are that fossil fuels in 2012 were 82% of primary energy consumption vs 79% in 2021. Overall energy consumption went up by 3% during that period. Globally, total energy consumption was up nearly 12% over the same period. 

You can find the US numbers here: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/

[Biff Tannen 45477]

On 10/27/2022 at 10:59 AM, Dahobbs said:

Well that is a load of misleading bullshit. 1) Comparing percentages as opposed to value, 2) comparing all primary energy consumption as if that is where the investment has been as opposed to electrical generation where the investment has actually been, 3) failing to clarify that he is talking about global numbers (which, duh, of course those are going to be big), and 4) and failing to account for the offset caused by reduction in use nuclear energy.

If you focus on the change in renewables (other than nuclear), the return on investment we are supposedly tracking here, you'll see that globally they increase 31% over that 10 year period. And their percentage of total primary energy consumption goes from 16% to 19%. You also appear to embrace the false assumption that getting to net-zero means moving away entirely from fossil fuel in terms of total primary energy production. But it doesn't. The goal is net-zero, not zero. All the studies I have seen still have fossil fuel use making up a good percentage of total primary energy, even up to 64% of total primary energy in a net-zero environment.  

Also, the actual numbers for the US are that fossil fuels in 2012 were 82% of primary energy consumption vs 79% in 2021. Overall energy consumption went up by 3% during that period. Globally, total energy consumption was up nearly 12% over the same period. 

You can find the US numbers here: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/

You're talking to someone who is not presenting information in good faith.  I mean, good effort, but it's going to be wasted.

[Humble Beast 258]

Cow fart reduction plans forthcoming 

 

 

[Guest]

On 1/9/2022 at 9:08 PM, Biff Tannen said:

This was posted in another thread somewhere and he has been debunked as an oil company shill.  He's not 100% wrong, but he twists the truth in a lot of ways.  

Tinker?  Lulz. 

[Humble Beast 258]

 

[Captainant 27310]

On 11/20/2021 at 3:20 PM, Goofyboy said:

The NuScale / Fluor SMR plants are getting ramped up. Neat and new technology.

https://www.nuscalepower.com

Bump. They actually just got their 50MW SMR design certified for construction and use in the US! (AP Reporting) Also in the article is that NuScale is looking at certifying a 77MW module. Really smart, passively cooled design. The heat of the reactor core heats and pushes water up to the steam generator where it's cooled, and then gravity pulls the cold water back down into the core for more heat transfer.

Passive safety that doesn't need standby generators is what's going to help us decarbonize our energy

Edited January 21, 2023 by Captainant

[Post Oak 20182]

2 hours ago, Captainant said:

Bump. They actually just got their 50MW SMR design certified for construction and use in the US! (AP Reporting) Also in the article is that NuScale is looking at certifying a 77MW module. Really smart, passively cooled design. The heat of the reactor core heats and pushes water up to the steam generator where it's cooled, and then gravity pulls the cold water back down into the core for more heat transfer.

Passive safety that doesn't need standby generators is what's going to help us decarbonize our energy

This is really interesting. Thanks for posting

[Gatorubet 30064]

On 1/9/2022 at 10:21 PM, FartingMonk said:

The whole necessity is the mother of innovation.

Or maybe better phrased, the absence of powerful lobbyists paid by exorbitantly wealthy corporations controlling the legislature let you try things the US can’t try. 

[Parliament 14112]

On 11/24/2021 at 8:01 AM, CHEF DIESEL said:

Small community of Dike, Texas east of Dallas is going to be destroyed by huge solar farms owned by foreign corporations. Solar ain't all that green.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/a-battle-of-green-against-green-in-this-texas-community/2021/07/30/836a6e4c-eaf7-11eb-ba5d-55d3b5ffcaf1_story.html

In Ohio, there are solar farm permits applications in the system that would take up to 90,000 acres of farmland out of production.  For perspective, that land would produces enough corn and soybeans to raise enough hogs to make 40,000 tons of finished pork every year.  I've seen how these solar farms are built.  With as much dirt moving, concrete and underground electrical wire going in, I don't see how that land could ever be reconverted to crop production.

I'm not universally against green energy, but the land use issue needs to be discussed.  These are permanent decisions.

[bolverk 29360]

28 minutes ago, Parliament said:

In Ohio, there are solar farm permits applications in the system that would take up to 90,000 acres of farmland out of production.  For perspective, that land would produces enough corn and soybeans to raise enough hogs to make 40,000 tons of finished pork every year.  I've seen how these solar farms are built.  With as much dirt moving, concrete and underground electrical wire going in, I don't see how that land could ever be reconverted to crop production.

I'm not universally against green energy, but the land use issue needs to be discussed.  These are permanent decisions.

I dunno shit about fuck when it comes to farming, but your comment brings to mind a story I heard on NPR (linked below) that discussed ways that farmers are growing crops in conjunction with having solar panels on their land. So, yeah, I get the concern, and we should definitely be focused on not losing agriculturally productive lands. But some innovative folk are trying to find solutions.

https://www.npr.org/2021/11/14/1054942590/solar-energy-colorado-garden-farm-land

[Parliament 14112]

They're grazing sheep under them in places too.  

Just like housing and industrial development, it's cheaper to buy prime, flat, well-drained farm ground and build there, instead of hilly, poor ground.  Seems the former coal mines in Appalachia would be good for solar farms.  Put that strip mine dirt back in a way that sets the panels facing the sun.  The dirt work wouldn't cost much different, and the land is free.  Same for mature landfills.  Can't build houses or plant trees up there; just put solar.  Both would also be good PR. 

[drt 637]

I don’t know that adding a bit of concrete for the footers and some wire buried under solar panels in conduit renders it fallow in the future either. They’re both in straight lines at regular intervals. Pretty easy to rip that out. 
 

The case study I saw was remarkably similar to what bolverk posted, only I think it was strawberries and might have been Europe.  Same thing, had to be able to drive the tractor between panel rows, the evaporation cooled the panels increasing electric production, and the intermittent shade increased yields on the produce. Seems like a no brainer. 
 

The other interesting solar project I’ve seen is floating solar to slow evaporation and capitalize on that unused real estate. 

[PTINS 3442]

On 1/21/2023 at 3:23 PM, Captainant said:

Bump. They actually just got their 50MW SMR design certified for construction and use in the US! (AP Reporting) Also in the article is that NuScale is looking at certifying a 77MW module. Really smart, passively cooled design. The heat of the reactor core heats and pushes water up to the steam generator where it's cooled, and then gravity pulls the cold water back down into the core for more heat transfer.

Passive safety that doesn't need standby generators is what's going to help us decarbonize our energy

Passive safety and nuclear reactions sounds like a great idea!

[Captainant 27310]

8 hours ago, PTINS said:

Passive safety and nuclear reactions sounds like a great idea!

It is! We wouldn't have had a Fukushima meltdown if they were passively safe. When the reactors lost their backup power and active cooling they became unsafe. Unless gravity turns off, the NuScale reactors (theoretically) should remain safe and by design return to a no power state when unsupervised.

With passive safety, it's letting the physics of the reactor design and it's thermodynamic interaction with it's working fluid (water) throttle the reaction itself. I haven't been able to find confirmation yet, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that these SMR's also have a negative temperature coefficient and reduce in reactivity as they get hotter, which also contributes to passive safety 

[Biff Tannen 45477]

https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2023/02/solv-energy-breaks-ground-solar-peaker-plant-california/

 

Quote

SOLV Energy breaks ground on unique solar peaker plant in California

Spoiler

Arevon Energy and San Diego Community Power broke ground on the Vikings Energy Farm, a solar + storage power plant in Holtville, California. The project was first announced in May 2021.

The Vikings Energy Farm is among the first solar peaker plants in the United States. The facility’s unique 1:1 configuration — 137 MW of solar, coupled with 150 MW/600 MWh of battery energy storage — will allow it to shift daytime solar production to late afternoon and evening hours, providing on-peak energy whenever necessary. The Vikings Energy Farm will feature the Tesla Megapack for battery energy storage and First Solar thin-film solar modules.

Vikings Energy Farm is being constructed by SOLV Energy, which has done work throughout the Imperial Valley. Work will be performed by union labor from Operating Engineers Local 12, the Southwest Regional Council of Carpenters, Southern California District Council of Laborers and its affiliated Local Union 1184, IBEW Local 569 and Ironworkers Local 229. When completed, the project will power tens of thousands of homes.

“Arevon is proud to bring the Vikings Energy Farm to Imperial Valley. We’re especially excited about the unique design, which provides a storage component that is as powerful as our ability to generate solar energy,” said Justin Johnson, Arevon’s chief operating officer. “This unique design, an extension of our on-going commitment to leading-edge technologies, will allow the facility to provide energy whenever necessary, helping to stabilize the grid, and benefiting everyone in this community, and across the state of California.”

Among Arevon’s commitments to the local community are: annual scholarships awarded to Holtville High School students pursuing higher education; sponsorship of the 2023 Holtville Carrot Festival; and a commitment to using local union labor for construction. The Vikings Energy Farm is contracted to provide resource adequacy and renewable energy to San Diego Community Power, helping to meet peak summer demand and support grid reliability.