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Dion Sanders Prime Candidate for Frogs Gig

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Landomatic

Landomatic 3,813

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2 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

The new version of the Big 12 currently has five teams (42% of the league) ranked in the top 25, including two in the top 10.

No offense, but good luck with Kansas this week.

Yeah and 2 of those five (40 % of them) are currently G5, so you'll fit right in.

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Your Mom

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3 hours ago, Landomatic said:

He just signed the highest rated FCS class in history at Grambling Mississippi Christian State or whatever. And has them 8-1 right now (they were 3-8, 5-5 and 4-8 the 3 years before he got there). So, yeah, he may have some chops.

No shit?  I had no idea. I don’t follow recruiting and I hadn’t paid any attention to him other than noticing his theatrics when he first got hired.  Learned something new. 

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TwiceHorn

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1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

I can't stand this asshole. Jones bringing in him and Switzer to Dallas made it pretty easy to let go of pro football with the Oilers moving to Tennessee. No regrets.

I wanted to, too.  But, I too have heard reports that apart from personae, he's a pretty solid dude.

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oSuJeff97

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2 hours ago, Landomatic said:

Yeah and 2 of those five (40 % of them) are currently G5, so you'll fit right in.

Happy to “fit in” with a league where nearly half the teams are ranked and two are in the top 10.

I guess it could worse. We could be in a situation where we would be a middling team in said G5 league.

Good luck against Kansas. 

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Landomatic

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10 hours ago, Snacks said:

Why do people think Deion can't coach? 

 

9 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

Why do people think he can?

 

1 hour ago, Tommy Shelby said:

His record?

He's got Jackson State at 8-1 which is nice and all, but his relatively limited body of work in actual coaching would be the main concern there. He's only been coaching at any level since 2017, so he's on year 5 total, but he was Offensive Coordinator at a Texas HS for 3 of those years (excluding whatever joke of a shit show that whole Prime Prep Academy thing was - he did that for 5 years). So, he's been a college coach for a total of not even 2 whole years.

So, yeah...the actual "coaching" part of the job of Head Coach at TCU is definitely his biggest question mark. That said, he'd score good to great in just about every other conceivable category when it comes to wearing the many hats of a Head Coach at that level (recruiting, marketing, fund raising, energy, relating to kids these days, Texas/DFW connections, media relations, glad-handing boosters, skins on the wall, etc). And some of it would be off the charts great. Hell, in this transfer portal, NIL world we're living in now, hiring a guy like him and what he'd bring to the table in those regards, may be really progressive thinking.

Doubtful it will really even come close to happening, but I can see why TCU would at least give him a look. Hiring Deion would kind of be like going for 2 to win the Super Bowl when kicking an extra point would tie it and take you to overtime. If it works and you win, it look like the ballsiest, most genius call ever. If it doesn't work, it looks like the dumbest call on earth.

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HoustonHorn

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Uh, I used to live a couple of houses down from him while he was with the Falcons.
You get him out of the bullshit Prime Time persona, and he is a good guy. Participated in all the neighborhood bullshit and was generous with his time. Kids loved him.
But, coach at a large university? Man, I got to see that. He still has a lot of kid in him. You will never confuse him for Morgan Freeman. 
Katfid would.
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Blotto

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2 hours ago, Landomatic said:

 

 

He's got Jackson State at 8-1 which is nice and all, but his relatively limited body of work in actual coaching would be the main concern there. He's only been coaching at any level since 2017, so he's on year 5 total, but he was Offensive Coordinator at a Texas HS for 3 of those years (excluding whatever joke of a shit show that whole Prime Prep Academy thing was - he did that for 5 years). So, he's been a college coach for a total of not even 2 whole years.

So, yeah...the actual "coaching" part of the job of Head Coach at TCU is definitely his biggest question mark. That said, he'd score good to great in just about every other conceivable category when it comes to wearing the many hats of a Head Coach at that level (recruiting, marketing, fund raising, energy, relating to kids these days, Texas/DFW connections, media relations, glad-handing boosters, skins on the wall, etc). And some of it would be off the charts great. Hell, in this transfer portal, NIL world we're living in now, hiring a guy like him and what he'd bring to the table in those regards, may be really progressive thinking.

Doubtful it will really even come close to happening, but I can see why TCU would at least give him a look. Hiring Deion would kind of be like going for 2 to win the Super Bowl when kicking an extra point would tie it and take you to overtime. If it works and you win, it look like the ballsiest, most genius call ever. If it doesn't work, it looks like the dumbest call on earth.

I agree completely. A’Dam Psycho mentioned people would get tired of Deion's antics after going 5-7 or 6-6- every year, but its more likely to be 10-2 or 2-10. High risk, high reward. Deion leaves more charisma in the toilet every morning than Sarkisian and Jimbo have combined. A bunch of brash cocky high school athletes will relate to that when he comes knocking on the recruiting trail. All else being equal, Deion would murder UT and A&M on the recruiting trail. But of course, all else isnt equal and thats the risk.

I see a lot of people on this site defending our current woes because we dont have the right "jimmy's and  joe's" on campus. If talent is the key differentiator, you gotta at least consider what Deion can do. He might be a terrible fucking coach (I have no idea), but if he is actually serious about coaching at the FBS Level and will devote the requisite amount of time to the job, its an intriguing concept. Plus I think he's a big jesus guy, so Baylor and TCU can stay on brand. Freeze may change jobs one of these years, so Liberty could make a run at him, lulz. 

Saw this clip the other day and it cracked me up. 

would I want him at Texas? Fuck no.

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Landomatic

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2 hours ago, Blotto said:

I agree completely. A’Dam Psycho mentioned people would get tired of Deion's antics after going 5-7 or 6-6- every year, but its more likely to be 10-2 or 2-10. High risk, high reward. Deion leaves more charisma in the toilet every morning than Sarkisian and Jimbo have combined. A bunch of brash cocky high school athletes will relate to that when he comes knocking on the recruiting trail. All else being equal, Deion would murder UT and A&M on the recruiting trail. But of course, all else isnt equal and thats the risk.

I see a lot of people on this site defending our current woes because we dont have the right "jimmy's and  joe's" on campus. If talent is the key differentiator, you gotta at least consider what Deion can do. He might be a terrible fucking coach (I have no idea), but if he is actually serious about coaching at the FBS Level and will devote the requisite amount of time to the job, its an intriguing concept. Plus I think he's a big jesus guy, so Baylor and TCU can stay on brand. Freeze may change jobs one of these years, so Liberty could make a run at him, lulz. 

Saw this clip the other day and it cracked me up. 

would I want him at Texas? Fuck no.

I think Deion knows how and when to turn things off and on with his persona. He could be like the Drake of college football. Is Drake the best rapper ever? No, probably not even close. But he can switch from being the whitest Jew in a room full of stiff executives to the most thug brother on the streets with his music, seemingly fairly effortlessly...and damn that dude's successful across a ton of different platforms. Deion, best actual football coach ever? No, probably not even close. But I think he could kill it at a ton of other coaching shit necessary to be really successful.

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NTVTXN

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3 hours ago, HoustonHorn said:
19 hours ago, Scooter Monzingo said:
Uh, I used to live a couple of houses down from him while he was with the Falcons.
You get him out of the bullshit Prime Time persona, and he is a good guy. Participated in all the neighborhood bullshit and was generous with his time. Kids loved him.
But, coach at a large university? Man, I got to see that. He still has a lot of kid in him. You will never confuse him for Morgan Freeman. 

Katfid would.

Cmon people! This is not getting enough love! 
 

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bad_teammate

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6 hours ago, Landomatic said:

I think Deion knows how and when to turn things off and on with his persona. He could be like the Drake of college football. Is Drake the best rapper ever? No, probably not even close. But he can switch from being the whitest Jew in a room full of stiff executives to the most thug brother on the streets with his music, seemingly fairly effortlessly...and damn that dude's successful across a ton of different platforms. Deion, best actual football coach ever? No, probably not even close. But I think he could kill it at a ton of other coaching shit necessary to be really successful.

I'm down. Give him 3 years at TCU to get him ready.

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Deej

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11 minutes ago, lemonandaturd said:

Let's see if SMU will let their nuts hang and take the gamble. 

 

27 minutes ago, Pancho said:

He’s brought lots of exposure to JSU and HBCUs in general. 

Let's see if he can bring exposure to a HWCU.

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boilerhorn

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22 hours ago, Snacks said:

Why do people think Deion can't coach? 

 

21 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:


Why do people think he can?


He was OC at Trinity Christian from 2017-2020.  He did it to coach his sons.  It is important to note they were in TAPPS (Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools) at the time.

Their record:

2016: 4-6
2017: 12-1
2018: 14-0
2019: 13-1
2020: 10-1
2021: 3-5

While he and his kids were there, they went 49-3.  They beat Regents School of Austin 3 years in a row to win state (2017-2019).  They were punted from TAPPS after 2019 for various violations.  My suspicion: recruiting and winning too many games.  It's happened in the past w/ TAPPS.  When TAPPS formed, Dallas Jesuit and Strake Jesuit were not invited and joined UIL

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boilerhorn

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12 minutes ago, ztejas said:

How good were his kids, though? 

His oldest son wasn't any good but he was out of high school a few years before that. 

They were pretty good, esp. for TAPPS.  One played for South Carolina for 2 years then transferred to...  Jackson State.  The younger plays for... Jackson State.

They won quite a few games and had a handful of guys there who do not play there if Deion is not on the staff.  That said, top TAPPS teams would get mauled by decent 6A teams.

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oSuJeff97

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13 hours ago, Landomatic said:

 

 

He's got Jackson State at 8-1 which is nice and all, but his relatively limited body of work in actual coaching would be the main concern there. He's only been coaching at any level since 2017, so he's on year 5 total, but he was Offensive Coordinator at a Texas HS for 3 of those years (excluding whatever joke of a shit show that whole Prime Prep Academy thing was - he did that for 5 years). So, he's been a college coach for a total of not even 2 whole years.

So, yeah...the actual "coaching" part of the job of Head Coach at TCU is definitely his biggest question mark. That said, he'd score good to great in just about every other conceivable category when it comes to wearing the many hats of a Head Coach at that level (recruiting, marketing, fund raising, energy, relating to kids these days, Texas/DFW connections, media relations, glad-handing boosters, skins on the wall, etc). And some of it would be off the charts great. Hell, in this transfer portal, NIL world we're living in now, hiring a guy like him and what he'd bring to the table in those regards, may be really progressive thinking.

Doubtful it will really even come close to happening, but I can see why TCU would at least give him a look. Hiring Deion would kind of be like going for 2 to win the Super Bowl when kicking an extra point would tie it and take you to overtime. If it works and you win, it look like the ballsiest, most genius call ever. If it doesn't work, it looks like the dumbest call on earth.

Re: the assumed recruting advantage he would give TCU…

I have a feeling that he would be able to corner the market on the best recruits from the pool of talent that goes to SWAC schools and become really good in pretty short order. I imagine the marginal return from getting the best recruiting class in that league is quite high.

It’s a different story at TCU and the schools he’ll be competing against. At the FBS level, there is a high marginal return on getting elite (top 10ish) recruiting classes.  After that, there is not much difference through about the 30s and 40s. Once you get past elite status, it’s about who develops players the best and who has the best schemes and Game Day coaching.  This is the area where coaches like Gundy, Matt Campbell and Gary Patterson (in the past at least), among others have made their success.

Would Deion raise the level of TCU’s recruiting? Probably. Would he raise it to the point that they are getting top 10 national classes every year? I seriously doubt it. I don’t care how famous he is, he’s not beating OU, Texas, Texas A&M, Alabama, etc., for the most elite recruits in Texas. That means he’s down in that same pool of recruits as OSU, Texas Tech, Iowa State, Baylor, etc., and it becomes about player development, schemes, putting together a great staff and game day coaching.

Can Deion excel at all of those things at TCU? Possibly, but I wouldn’t count on it.

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CTC2

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If TCU hires him it will be admitting, just like Tech through their hire, that they are coming to grips with their new standing based on conference affiliation.  What I mean by that is they have totally given up on the idea of being able to hire a proven winner or true up and comer.  

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Landomatic

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10 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Re: the assumed recruting advantage he would give TCU…

I have a feeling that he would be able to corner the market on the best recruits from the pool of talent that goes to SWAC schools and become really good in pretty short order. I imagine the marginal return from getting the best recruiting class in that league is quite high.

It’s a different story at TCU and the schools he’ll be competing against. At the FBS level, there is a high marginal return on getting elite (top 10ish) recruiting classes.  After that, there is not much difference through about the 30s and 40s. Once you get past elite status, it’s about who develops players the best and who has the best schemes and Game Day coaching.  This is the area where coaches like Gundy, Matt Campbell and Gary Patterson (in the past at least), among others have made their success.

Would Deion raise the level of TCU’s recruiting? Probably. Would he raise it to the point that they are getting top 10 national classes every year? I seriously doubt it. I don’t care how famous he is, he’s not beating OU, Texas, Texas A&M, Alabama, etc., for the most elite recruits in Texas. That means he’s down in that same pool of recruits as OSU, Texas Tech, Iowa State, Baylor, etc., and it becomes about player development, schemes, putting together a great staff and game day coaching.

Can Deion excel at all of those things at TCU? Possibly, but I wouldn’t count on it.

I think you're diminishing him with thinking his recruiting edge would be all about how famous he is. Sure, his fame is great and all, and it would get him in just about every door in the country (including elite recruits who are considering Texas, Alabama, tOSU, etc), not just in the state of Texas. But, his true recruiting advantages would be much bigger than that.

First, there's the whole NIL thing. There's nobody in all of football who's better at marking himself than Deion. He's as good as it gets at self-promotion, endorsements, etc. He pretty much wrote the book on all that shit. Like it or not, getting to "the league" (hell he played in the NFL and MLB) and having success after that, all of it largely through endorsement deals, will become the name of the game in college football going forward. He would sell the shit outa' that when it comes to recruiting.

Then there's his personality. That dude's energy and confidence are infectious. He may rub some people wrong, but I think on the whole, most people who are around him for even a little bit, find him really hard not to like. Some of his antics in the past may have come off as a bit of a clown show, but as mentioned earlier, I think he knows his audience. He's worked in stiff white corporate America (at least the sports version of it) when he was on air and with various endorsements, so he can undoubtedly turn it off and on when he needs to. Plus he's 54 years old now, so he's probably outgrown some of that. He seems like the kind of guy guy who can own the room regardless of whatever room he's in. He would sell the shit outa' that when it comes to recruiting.

Then there's the parents. Deion is a huge mentoring kids guy and has dedicated a lot of his life to it. He's really big on family and family values. He's had great success after his playing career ended. He's a huge Jesus guy. He's never been in any kind of real trouble off the field that I can remember. A lot of parents would eat that shit up, particularly parents in a large portion of the market he'd be recruiting. He would sell the shit outa' that when it comes to recruiting.

Then there's the DFW market. Deion has chosen to make his life here. He's raised his family here, he's made connections here, he knows high schools here, he's made a ton of local media appearances here, he's done charity work here. He didn't chose to go back to Florida where he's from. Even through all of his TV years, he lived here. Plus he's a Dallas Cowboy (he doesn't identify as a Falcon, a 49er, a Redskin or a Raven) and he doesn't call any of those places home, despite playing at all of them before or after Dallas. And whether you're a fan of the Dallas Cowboys or not, they are the #1 franchise in the WORLD in all of sports when it comes to brand value and marketability. There's a reason damn near every national sports broadcast has a heavy emphasis on the Cowboys and a large portion of the on-air talent are former Cowboys. He and the Jones family still have a great relationship and he'd have unprecedented access, at least to a certain extent, to all of it, including several famous former Cowboy players. He would sell the shit outa' that when it comes to recruiting.

Again, I don't think there's any way in hell this happens, but if you think Deion's recruiting edge at TCU would simply be because he's famous, I think you're selling him incredibly short. He isn't a Gruden (cringe) type situation where people said, "oh all the kids will recognize him because he's on TV so I bet he could recruit." He's got a ton more going for him, especially for TCU, than that.

That said, you're 100% right on the rest of it. Having to actually develop players, scheme, put a great staff together (although by all accounts he's done great at this at JSU), game day coach, etc. are all things that are huge question marks, which is exactly why I don't think there's any way in hell this even comes close to happening. I know we were busting each other's balls earlier, but coaching at TCU is a whole other level than the coaching resume he's got so far.

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oSuJeff97

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1 hour ago, Landomatic said:

I think you're diminishing him with thinking his recruiting edge would be all about how famous he is. Sure, his fame is great and all, and it would get him in just about every door in the country (including elite recruits who are considering Texas, Alabama, tOSU, etc), not just in the state of Texas. But, his true recruiting advantages would be much bigger than that.

First, there's the whole NIL thing. There's nobody in all of football who's better at marking himself than Deion. He's as good as it gets at self-promotion, endorsements, etc. He pretty much wrote the book on all that shit. Like it or not, getting to "the league" (hell he played in the NFL and MLB) and having success after that, all of it largely through endorsement deals, will become the name of the game in college football going forward. He would sell the shit outa' that when it comes to recruiting.

Then there's his personality. That dude's energy and confidence are infectious. He may rub some people wrong, but I think on the whole, most people who are around him for even a little bit, find him really hard not to like. Some of his antics in the past may have come off as a bit of a clown show, but as mentioned earlier, I think he knows his audience. He's worked in stiff white corporate America (at least the sports version of it) when he was on air and with various endorsements, so he can undoubtedly turn it off and on when he needs to. Plus he's 54 years old now, so he's probably outgrown some of that. He seems like the kind of guy guy who can own the room regardless of whatever room he's in. He would sell the shit outa' that when it comes to recruiting.

Then there's the parents. Deion is a huge mentoring kids guy and has dedicated a lot of his life to it. He's really big on family and family values. He's had great success after his playing career ended. He's a huge Jesus guy. He's never been in any kind of real trouble off the field that I can remember. A lot of parents would eat that shit up, particularly parents in a large portion of the market he'd be recruiting. He would sell the shit outa' that when it comes to recruiting.

Then there's the DFW market. Deion has chosen to make his life here. He's raised his family here, he's made connections here, he knows high schools here, he's made a ton of local media appearances here, he's done charity work here. He didn't chose to go back to Florida where he's from. Even through all of his TV years, he lived here. Plus he's a Dallas Cowboy (he doesn't identify as a Falcon, a 49er, a Redskin or a Raven) and he doesn't call any of those places home, despite playing at all of them before or after Dallas. And whether you're a fan of the Dallas Cowboys or not, they are the #1 franchise in the WORLD in all of sports when it comes to brand value and marketability. There's a reason damn near every national sports broadcast has a heavy emphasis on the Cowboys and a large portion of the on-air talent are former Cowboys. He and the Jones family still have a great relationship and he'd have unprecedented access, at least to a certain extent, to all of it, including several famous former Cowboy players. He would sell the shit outa' that when it comes to recruiting.

Again, I don't think there's any way in hell this happens, but if you think Deion's recruiting edge at TCU would simply be because he's famous, I think you're selling him incredibly short. He isn't a Gruden (cringe) type situation where people said, "oh all the kids will recognize him because he's on TV so I bet he could recruit." He's got a ton more going for him, especially for TCU, than that.

That said, you're 100% right on the rest of it. Having to actually develop players, scheme, put a great staff together (although by all accounts he's done great at this at JSU), game day coach, etc. are all things that are huge question marks, which is exactly why I don't think there's any way in hell this even comes close to happening. I know we were busting each other's balls earlier, but coaching at TCU is a whole other level than the coaching resume he's got so far.

Agreed.

And just to clarify, my point wasn't that he would have a recruiting edge only because he was famous. He may have a recruiting edge for all of the reasons you pointed out above, but my main point was that edge may provide a huge marginal value at a SWAC school, but it may not at a non-elite P5 (or G5 ;) )  program like TCU; because at the major FBS level, you need to be pulling ELITE classes (top 10ish) every year to get a big marginal advantage from recruiting.  

Otherwise, you're pulling top 20ish-top 40ish classes, and (IMO) there is no real material difference in overall talent in those classes -- the teams that recruit in that zone are more or less successful based on player development, staff quality, schemes, game day coaching, etc.

So the question is, do we think that Deion's fame/prominence in Texas/personality/etc., etc., will translate into TCU pulling ELITE recruiting classes, along the lines of what OU, Texas, or other bluebloods recruiting the state will get?  If the answer is "no", then we're back to the notion that those other qualities outlined above are far more important for him to achieve sustained success at TCU, rather than his recruiting chops.

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Landomatic

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42 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Agreed.

And just to clarify, my point wasn't that he would have a recruiting edge only because he was famous. He may have a recruiting edge for all of the reasons you pointed out above, but my main point was that edge may provide a huge marginal value at a SWAC school, but it may not at a non-elite P5 (or G5 ;) )  program like TCU; because at the major FBS level, you need to be pulling ELITE classes (top 10ish) every year to get a big marginal advantage from recruiting.  

Otherwise, you're pulling top 20ish-top 40ish classes, and (IMO) there is no real material difference in overall talent in those classes -- the teams that recruit in that zone are more or less successful based on player development, staff quality, schemes, game day coaching, etc.

So the question is, do we think that Deion's fame/prominence in Texas/personality/etc., etc., will translate into TCU pulling ELITE recruiting classes, along the lines of what OU, Texas, or other bluebloods recruiting the state will get?  If the answer is "no", then we're back to the notion that those other qualities outlined above are far more important for him to achieve sustained success at TCU, rather than his recruiting chops.

You're missing a pretty big gap in there between top 10ish classes and top 20ish-top 40ish classes. TCU recruiting has averaged ranked around 25th the last 5 years without him. I think Deion immediately improves that number and maybe fairly substantially. I think he could consistently recruit around the bottom of the elite/bluebloods and the top of the next tier, so somewhere in the top 20ish range, in pretty short order. Which, let's be honest, is probably about all TCU could ever hope for.

Now, that doesn't change your overall premise, which I think you're spot on about. But it does make it less of a factor for sure. If he could recruit at a top 20ish level and assemble a good to great staff at TCU, he'd win enough in the Big 12 to keep a job for quite a while. Plus add a ton of other intangibles that would excite the fanbase/boosters/etc (assuming he ran a clean program).

Hell, the more I think about it, he could be right in TCU's wheelhouse. Won't happen, but it would be fun to watch.

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