Shooter reported at Santa Fe, Texas school

[staboner 4973]

4 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I hope the national media makes fun of our stupid politicians...because they are stupid. 

they are, and have been doing nothing but holding us back. decades. rinse and repeat. stop voting for them. the ability for our government to do just about any problem solving is 0. nada. not possible. 

that vid is depressing. kids are shell shocked. shit i am shell shocked. sick of this shit. 

[crash_davis 23113]

18 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

We're fucked as a society.  Politicians won't do anything to fix the problem except give the victims their thoughts and prayers.  It's not their fault!

I have absolutely zero faith in any political figure to do anything.  Status quo won't change.  We're fucked.

this is what happens when government is sold to the highest bidder.

[jimmyjazz 45960]

31 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Every teenager doesn’t have the same level of mental health, for one thing. 

It's not necessarily a mental health issue in the traditional sense.  Research seems to be showing that there isn't so much a correlation with bipolar, schizophrenia, or depression disorders as much as unresolved anger issues.  You might argue that those are mental health issues themselves, but from what I've read, it's not really the same thing.

[Capn81 372]

I hope the national media makes fun of our stupid politicians...because they are stupid. 

Unfortunately, the National Media is stupid as well.

[MissingInAction 25081]

If you haven't seen the Safety First episode of Elecric Dreams, you should.

[Doc Holliday 199]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's not necessarily a mental health issue in the traditional sense.  Research seems to be showing that there isn't so much a correlation with bipolar, schizophrenia, or depression disorders as much as unresolved anger issues.  You might argue that those are mental health issues themselves, but from what I've read, it's not really the same thing.

I would agree and also, the ability of self-control or lack thereof.

[jimmyjazz 45960]

Watching these surviving kids interviewed is absolutely gut-wrenching.  Fuck me, if that was my kid I would just want to hug them forever.

Yes, by all means, let's throw up our hands and do nothing.  

I agree with whoever posted it above -- the gun lobby and gun zealots' refusal to give an inch is going to result in the rest of us taking a mile, and I'm getting real close to not even caring if that happens.  

[PilotsError 2287]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

Watching these surviving kids interviewed is absolutely gut-wrenching.  Fuck me, if that was my kid I would just want to hug them forever.

Yes, by all means, let's throw up our hands and do nothing.  

I agree with whoever posted it above -- the gun lobby and gun zealots' refusal to give an inch is going to result in the rest of us taking a mile, and I'm getting real close to not even caring if that happens.  

That's because you're a piece of shit.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

13 minutes ago, Hate said:

VA Tech shooter used handguns to kill 32 and wound 17 others.

 

Killeen Luby’s shooter used handguns to kill 23 and wound 27 others.

Both these shooters used Glock 9mms with 33 round magazines 

[MillerEP 30455]

Heard back from one of my nieces, she was there and made it out fine. I have a couple of my cousin's kids there and haven't heard back yet, but so far no news is good news. I was attending Santa Fe High School when Columbine happened, and I vaguely remember the after-effects of that.  The shitty thing is they're just a week or two away from Summer break.

[Capn81 372]

Read something after one of the other shootings how white male entitlement could be a factor. Why is it usually white males?

I would say that it is the group that is being the most left behind.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

What do you want to do?  I am serious.  Tell me specific ideas.  Because if they could work, I would consider supporting them.  I would not support something that has no chance to work and just burdens law abiding gun owners.

There are some things we can do that will help.  I am not convinced in a nation of 300 million we can do much to stop random mass shootings.  But my ears are open.

[MissingInAction 25081]

Mandatory psych evaluations for everyone. Turn Oklahoma into a prison territory and ship all the psychos there. Have weekly battle royales and televise it.

[MillerEP 30455]

Suspect's name is Dimitrios Pagourtzis, don't know that family (it's a small town, everybody knows everybody). Greek family.

 

Edit: Lives in Alvin along the border, which might be why.

Edited May 18, 2018 by MillerEP

[jimmyjazz 45960]

5 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

That's because you're a piece of shit.

I can't say I feel any differently about you.  Yay!

[SubliminalHorn 6797]

6 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

That's because you're a piece of shit.

You sound triggered. But more and more people are ready for some drastic things to happen. Sorry if that hurts your fee fees

[Goofyboy 3293]

Why not lock down schools? One way in?

[PilotsError 2287]

Time to make another substantial donation the NRA.

[Brisketexan 105147]

What do you want to do?  I am serious.  Tell me specific ideas.  Because if they could work, I would consider supporting them.  I would not support something that has no chance to work and just burdens law abiding gun owners.
There are some things we can do that will help.  I am not convinced in a nation of 300 million we can do much to stop random mass shootings.  But my ears are open.

The Parkland crew proposed 5 measures. I agree with all but one (a ban on “assault weapons.”).

He other 4 provisions make sense, and yes, would increase some restrictions on gun purchases and the like.

And all four are 100% DOA before every legislative body that matters.

So proposing solutions is meaningless. We have chosen our path, damn the body count.

[Capn81 372]

Why not lock down schools? One way in?

Liability issues, I am sure somehow.

[BigHorn'13 3363]

Anymore news about the second person "detained" and the IEDs?

[Big_kat 334]

First, there is absolutely zero reason for civilians to own any kind of assault rifle.  Second, no handgun needs 30+ round clips.  Take those two away and you would be on a good start.  I am an avid shooter and gun owner, but there is just no reason to have that kind of firepower available to the public.

 

I understand that you cannot take the guns away from everyone.  A bad guy is not going to care about gun laws and you would be taking the weapons from the good guys only.  We need to look more into arming the personnel at the schools.  The best police response time is not good enough when it only takes seconds.  Schools need to look at how the setup of their front allows for access.  Maybe deactivate the fire alarm pulls that are in the foyer area that anyone has access to.

 

Just a few thoughts  

 

[freyguy 4273]

3 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Why not lock down schools? One way in, one way out?

Going to have to.  State and Federal inaction leaves it up to the districts to figure this out.  Will tie back to district funding to close up all access points.  If I were head administrator for a district, I would use all high school football revenue (booster and otherwise) as an emergency source to fund all this.  What else can you do?  Sit on your ass and wait for government $'s to never come in?

Edited May 18, 2018 by freyguy

[jimmyjazz 45960]

2 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

Time to make another substantial donation the NRA.

Talk about a piece of shit.  Fuck you.  Lay those weapons out on your living room floor, pick the one that looks most like your HS football coach's junk, and go to town.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

One way in and one way out?  So you have a line of people waiting to get in, queued up at a metal detector I presume (otherwise what is the point)?  Creates a very easy target for a mass shooter.

[Pato del Muerto 52501]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

The Parkland crew proposed 5 measures. I agree with all but one (a ban on “assault weapons.”).

He other 4 provisions make sense, and yes, would increase some restrictions on gun purchases and the like.

And all four are 100% DOA before every legislative body that matters.

So proposing solutions is meaningless. We have chosen our path, damn the body count.

The long game would be to find politicians that are for legislation, fund them well enough to not feel the need to take nra money, as well as be able to take on a nra funded opponent, and over a few cycles get enough people in congress to make the changes. 

[NIUHuskies 504]

7 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Mandatory psych evaluations for everyone. Turn Oklahoma into a prison territory and ship all the psychos there. Have weekly battle royales and televise it.

George Carlin was a head of you:
 

 

[fattyflattie 4639]

12 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

refusal to give an inch is going to result in the rest of us taking a mile, and I'm getting real close to not even caring if that happens.  

This is exactly why neither side will give an inch. Because the other can't be trusted not to sell their souls to fuck the other.  This goes for pretty much every divided issue.  I'm far from Brisket levels of depression, but something we need to fix or everything is going to continue down the shitter. 

I hope the people affected can eventually find some peace.  

[jimmyjazz 45960]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

One way in and one way out?  So you have a line of people waiting to get in, queued up at a metal detector I presume (otherwise what is the point)?  Creates a very easy target for a mass shooter.

I honestly think there is no perfect solution.  Like most real-world problems, especially here in the US where liberty is so firmly entrenched as a fundamental right, the "answer" is going to be a balance of complex, competing factors.  If we can't have legitimate, in depth discussions where everything is considered then we're not likely to get very far.

[ABSR 5315]

1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

Its not valid.  Its complete bullshit.  He's attempting to conflate overall gun homocides with schoolground gun homocides.  Overall gun homocides, like all violent crimes, have decreased significantly.  School shootings are much higher, however.  Pre-Columbine, school shootings were a rarity.  Gang violence was higher, but typically occurred outside of school.

I would ask the same question of you...can you please show where you are getting the statistics to support your assumptions.  Not challengings you, but wanting to know the stistical base of your assumptions for discussion purposes.

From other posters it appears that the 3X number was a comparison of two distinct 1-2 year periods several decades apart, so we would really need better continuous data to vet the 3X number as this could be (or is) just cherry picking two data points.

[Jacob McCandles 202]

31 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's not necessarily a mental health issue in the traditional sense.  Research seems to be showing that there isn't so much a correlation with bipolar, schizophrenia, or depression disorders as much as unresolved anger issues.  You might argue that those are mental health issues themselves, but from what I've read, it's not really the same thing.

It is a mental health issue of some sort, but you may be correct that it something "new" -- some combination of unresolved anger; unrealistic/unrealized expectations. I don't know how to classify it. But the symptoms seem to be a male student who is marginalized to some degree; with few friends; who acts out in school to receive some attention (e.g. wears a trenchcoat), even if it is negative attention; who believes that he is not getting the attention/respect/whatever he is entitled to according to what he has seen/heard in GTA-type video games and/or movies and/or songs. Ultimately, he "snaps" and decides to do something about it.

20-30 years ago, he "did something about it" but starting a fight at school, because that is what he had/seen heard. Today, he picks up a gun or makes a bomb.

The problem is entirely too complex to lay the blame on any one entity:

-- Politicians (both parties) are to blame for not acting.

-- Mental health industry is to blame for not acting and for thinking all problems can be solved with a pill and without counseling (or confinement).

-- Parents'/Society's "snowflake" attitude is to blame for thinking that anything and everything is acceptable for a child (your child wearing trenchcoats to school doesn't make him hip, quirky or cool - he is emulating the Columbine killers).

-- Gun lobby is to blame for not yielding on assault rifles and automatic weapons (I am a hunter and I've never had a need for anything other than a 30-06, 12/20 gauge).

-- Entertainment industry is to blame for glorifying violent lifestyles in movies and video games.

-- News industry is to blame for over-reporting these events.

  

Edited May 18, 2018 by Jacob McCandles
typos

[Big_kat 334]

5 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Why not lock down schools? One way in?

That is how most schools are set up.  I have been teaching for over 10 years and have never been in a school that is accessible from any point but the front.  Most schools will have a front door that is unlocked and feeds only into the office.  The office will then unlock the door to let them in once they have checked in. 

[BigHorn'13 3363]

Just played audio from dispatch of the shooting on CNN. Definitely shotgun.

Edited May 18, 2018 by BigHorn'13

[Smax 3800]

9 minutes ago, Big_kat said:

First, there is absolutely zero reason for civilians to own any kind of assault rifle.  Second, no handgun needs 30+ round clips.  Take those two away and you would be on a good start.  I am an avid shooter and gun owner, but there is just no reason to have that kind of firepower available to the public.

 

I understand that you cannot take the guns away from everyone.  A bad guy is not going to care about gun laws and you would be taking the weapons from the good guys only.  We need to look more into arming the personnel at the schools.  The best police response time is not good enough when it only takes seconds.  Schools need to look at how the setup of their front allows for access.  Maybe deactivate the fire alarm pulls that are in the foyer area that anyone has access to.

 

Just a few thoughts  

 

 

 

Define assault rifle

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

What do you want to do?  I am serious.  Tell me specific ideas.  Because if they could work, I would consider supporting them.  I would not support something that has no chance to work and just burdens law abiding gun owners.
There are some things we can do that will help.  I am not convinced in a nation of 300 million we can do much to stop random mass shootings.  But my ears are open.

Taxing the gun? Passing multiple background checks 365 days apart before being able to acquire one? If a stolen gun is used in a mass shooting like this, trace the gun back to the last taxed owner and fuck him over? Don't make getting guns as easy as getting a car.. i dunno, any of those work?

[Pato del Muerto 52501]

1 minute ago, Big_kat said:

That is how most schools are set up.  I have been teaching for over 10 years and have never been in a school that is accessible from any point but the front.  Most schools will have a front door that is unlocked and feeds only into the office.  The office will then unlock the door to let them in once they have checked in. 

Doesn’t do much to prevent someone who is supposed to be in the building, like a student, from getting in the building.  Do we need security screening for all entrants at every school?

[Big_kat 334]

Just now, Smax said:

any rifle made to mimic or act like a weapon used by law enforcement or military.  AR-10, AR-15, SCAR, etc.  You dont use them to hunt, if you are serious, and are good for one thing.  High capacity mags with plenty of weapon for mass shootings.

 

 

Define assault rifle

1

 

[HornPhD 1368]

10 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Why not lock down schools? One way in?

Fire code regulations require multiple exit doors. Having alarmed doors for every exit, except for the main access door, would help; however, it's expensive and many schools have more than one building or an open campus.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

4 minutes ago, Big_kat said:

That is how most schools are set up.  I have been teaching for over 10 years and have never been in a school that is accessible from any point but the front.  Most schools will have a front door that is unlocked and feeds only into the office.  The office will then unlock the door to let them in once they have checked in. 

Fucking sad you can’t tell much difference between our public schools and our prisons.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

I honestly think there is no perfect solution.  Like most real-world problems, especially here in the US where liberty is so firmly entrenched as a fundamental right, the "answer" is going to be a balance of complex, competing factors.  If we can't have legitimate, in depth discussions where everything is considered then we're not likely to get very far.

I'd be glad to consider anything.  I just believe metal detectors and one way in/one way out will do a damn thing to stop a school mass shooting.  Hell, the shooter could plug the cop running the metal detector first and then start shooting.

I would support cutting down magazine capacity.  In my view, it makes it easier to kill more people in a mass shooting.

I think school employees who are licensed should be free to conceal carry with firearms, tazers or pepper spray.  Like they do at pretty much any public place in 2018.

I support education on proper gun storage/security and tougher laws against those who do not take steps to secure their guns.  My guns are all in a safe in my closet.  Except for one of my pistols I keep in a console safe in my truck.  Anyone who has minors should be strongly encouraged to do the same.  Carrot and stick for gun storage.

I am fine with a universal background check.  It needs to be free though.  There should be no charge for accessing the database, which should give the seller a thumbs up or down.

[Smax 3800]

1 minute ago, Big_kat said:

 

 

 

I hunt with my AR so I guess Im good then

[Pato del Muerto 52501]

12 minutes ago, Big_kat said:

First, there is absolutely zero reason for civilians to own any kind of assault rifle.  Second, no handgun needs 30+ round clips.  Take those two away and you would be on a good start.  I am an avid shooter and gun owner, but there is just no reason to have that kind of firepower available to the public.

 

I understand that you cannot take the guns away from everyone.  A bad guy is not going to care about gun laws and you would be taking the weapons from the good guys only.  We need to look more into arming the personnel at the schools.  The best police response time is not good enough when it only takes seconds.  Schools need to look at how the setup of their front allows for access.  Maybe deactivate the fire alarm pulls that are in the foyer area that anyone has access to.

 

Just a few thoughts  

 

What’s the practical difference between a 15 round pistol and a 15 round ar15?

id argue the pistol is more deadly since I can have one in each hand and several more on my person. 

[HornPhD 1368]

2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Doesn’t do much to prevent someone who is supposed to be in the building, like a student, from getting in the building.  Do we need security screening for all entrants at every school?

Also doesn't prevent someone opening a door from the inside

[Hate 20108]

22 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Both these shooters used Glock 9mms with 33 round magazines 

According to Wikipedia the Va Tech shooter did not use 33 round magazines and I can't find any information on the magazine size for the Luby's shooter, although there were multiple references to the Luby's shooter reloading several times which would indicate smaller than 33 round capacities.  

 

And nowhere did I suggest doing nothing for you "ban all gun" retards.  

[FondrenRoad 4378]

47 minutes ago, WBT said:

James Alan Fox is one of the preeminent criminologists in the country with a focus on juvenile crime.  We were citing his stuff when juvenile crime was the national CX debate topic back in the late 90s.  I don't see any reason or indication that he has the motive you are attributing to him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Alan_Fox

He didn't make those graphs, nor did he write that webpage.  His data was manipulated to make them.  From what I can see, he doesn't have much to say on the rise in random killings, and considers a targeted killing and a random killing the same statistic.  They aren't the same thing.  Even Fox wouldn't dispute that people who join gangs up their chance of being killed by gang violence significantly.  The vast majority of those 92 and 93 single murder incidents involved victims who took actions that increased their likelihood of being murdered.  So you were, in fact, safer in the 90s if you didn't start shit. 

I also see that Harvard criminologists dispute his mass shooting claims, but that dispute is about mass shootings everywhere, not only schools.    But much of that dispute comes from the fact that mass shootings are getting deadlier, even if they occur at nearly the same rate.

[Lurch 5930]

[Big_kat 334]

2 minutes ago, Smax said:

 

 

I hunt with my AR so I guess Im good then

To each his own I suppose.  I guess I am a good enough shot that the 4 rounds my .308 holds is enough for me.  

[Smax 3800]

5 minutes ago, Big_kat said:

To each his own I suppose.  I guess I am a good enough shot that the 4 rounds my .308 holds is enough for me.  

 

yeah youre a stud shot but cant define what an assault rifle is

Edited May 18, 2018 by Smax

[FondrenRoad 4378]

18 minutes ago, ABSR said:

I would ask the same question of you...can you please show where you are getting the statistics to support your assumptions.  Not challengings you, but wanting to know the stistical base of your assumptions for discussion purposes.

From other posters it appears that the 3X number was a comparison of two distinct 1-2 year periods several decades apart, so we would really need better continuous data to vet the 3X number as this could be (or is) just cherry picking two data points.

He did cherry pick two data points, taking the highest year from the 90s and the lowest from the last 10 years to come up with 3x, and he used incident rate rather than total deaths.  But he also neatly excluded colleges, as did his link, because his "low" sample year included either the VT shooting or the Norther Illinois shooting.  However, this school year is the highest ever in both total incidents and in total death count, and the last 2 school years were higher than the last available year from his link.  Looks like its time for that webpage to be updated.

Edited May 18, 2018 by FondrenRoad

[GlenFromTheMailRoom 1612]

Not being able to define the source of the issue is the ultimate issue.  Can't solve the problem if you can't define what the problem is.

2 minutes ago, Smax said:

 

yeah youre a stud shot but cant define what an assault rifle is

He never tried too.