Shooter reported at Santa Fe, Texas school

[Hate 20,146]

10 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

What’s the practical difference between a 15 round pistol and a 15 round ar15?

id argue the pistol is more deadly since I can have one in each hand and several more on my person. 

You must be some sort of murder loving gun nut if you can't tell the difference between being killed by an assault rife and being killed by a handgun.  Don't you get it?  Which looks scarier?  A little handgun or an AR-15?  You are definitely more dead if you've been killed by an AR-15 and even more dead if the bullet came from a high capacity magazine.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

9 minutes ago, Hate said:

According to Wikipedia the Va Tech shooter did not use 33 round magazines and I can't find any information on the magazine size for the Luby's shooter, although there were multiple references to the Luby's shooter reloading several times which would indicate smaller than 33 round capacities.  

My mistake on the VA tech shooter... I know the luby’s shooter inspired some legislation (it failed) to reduce magazine capacity.  Nevertheless, they both use weapons that take 15+ round (high capacity) magazines.

 

[Pato del Muerto 52,619]

I’ve never understood the civilian need for high cap mags, other than convenience. 

Why not pick a number like 6-12 and that’s the limit?

if suppressor purchases are highly scrutinized, why not high cap mags too?

[Brisketexan 105,448]

Noting that Santa Fe was the focus of a definitive case on school prayer, do we have some comments out there on the point of “this is because we took Jesus out of the school!”? I’m confident it’s just a matter of time.

[SubliminalHorn 6,811]

29 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

Time to make another substantial donation the NRA.

You’re really cool, man!

Cant wait until the day comes when the tide is too much and you can’t stop the coming backlash against guns. You’ll be crying with the other snowflake, small dicked gun nuts. All because you gloated and refused to compromise. 

[Sbbruin 21,898]

39 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

That's because you're a piece of shit.

[Goofyboy 3,298]

Noting that Santa Fe was the focus of a definitive case on school prayer, do we have some comments out there on the point of “this is because we took Jesus out of the school!”? I’m confident it’s just a matter of time.

I’ve already seen it on Facebook.

[Mole 4,333]

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

I know you didn't cherry pick, which is why I quoted the article.  And possibly the writer didn't cherry pick either and had good reason to use those two years, which is why I said "seemingly random."  But that data doesn't seem to persuasively support the notion that we're in an era of fewer school shootings.  I'd like to see more.

 

I appreciate the use of "data" as a plural, but in this case, it doesn't read very well.

Assuming that these types of random shootings have increased (not necessarily school shootings as a whole), what has changed culturally for Millenials and the new generation? Even if we're on the whole less violent, this type of violence is a sign of something broken. The Columbine kids were born in the early 80s, so what is different about GenX high school life and Millenial and post-Millenial high school life?  Data on the number of in-school fights? Fewer opportunities to resolve frustrations physically? Something about the digital age? Impulse control? The way we raise and teach boys? Something else?

I'm perfectly happy with common sense gun laws that can decrease the body count, but something deeper is going on that goes beyond "mental health."

[Stella Link 534]

 

[Smax 3,800]

5 minutes ago, GlenFromTheMailRoom said:

Not being able to define the source of the issue is the ultimate issue.  Can't solve the problem if you can't define what the problem is.

He never tried too.   

 

 

post 287, he just botched the formatting

[Alvin89 108]

In Alvin about 10-15 minutes from the school. We use to do some work with SF High School a few years back and it's pretty much like every other small town high school in Texas. Awful Awful Day

[Tailleur17 361]

1 minute ago, Mole said:

I appreciate the use of "data" as a plural, but in this case, it doesn't read very well.

Assuming that these types of random shootings have increased (not necessarily school shootings as a whole), what has changed culturally for Millenials and the new generation? Even if we're on the whole less violent, this type of violence is a sign of something broken. The Columbine kids were born in the early 80s, so what is different about GenX high school life and Millenial and post-Millenial high school life?  Data on the number of in-school fights? Fewer opportunities to resolve frustrations physically? Something about the digital age? Impulse control? The way we raise and teach boys? Something else?

I'm perfectly happy with common sense gun laws that can decrease the body count, but something deeper is going on that goes beyond "mental health."

Lack of parenting.

[Hate 20,146]

3 minutes ago, Mole said:

I'm perfectly happy with common sense gun laws that can decrease the body count, but something deeper is going on that goes beyond "mental health."

exactly.

[Mole 4,333]

4 minutes ago, Tailleur17 said:

Lack of parenting.

If that's the case, and it very well might be, surely it wouldn't be hard for a researcher to whip of data on home life of the kids who have done this.

I have no idea, are schools different? Parenting is obviously huge. Why does it always seem to be white males?

Edited May 18, 2018 by Mole

[Ldogg53 514]

Suspect's name is Dimitrios Pagourtzis, don't know that family (it's a small town, everybody knows everybody). Greek family.
 
Edit: Lives in Alvin along the border, which might be why.

Oh shit. I know the family.

[David Dennison 18,951]

43 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

What do you want to do?  I am serious.  Tell me specific ideas.  Because if they could work, I would consider supporting them.  I would not support something that has no chance to work and just burdens law abiding gun owners.

There are some things we can do that will help.  I am not convinced in a nation of 300 million we can do much to stop random mass shootings.  But my ears are open.

What are some things that will help?

[Leeroy Jenkins 2,416]

In the about section of the kids FB page says “Your favorite local shooter”

 

He also has the NRA website listed. 

 

That at may be a fake page per some new comments 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Leeroy Jenkins

[High Plains Drifter 11,052]

 

45 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

What do you want to do?  I am serious.  Tell me specific ideas.  Because if they could work, I would consider supporting them.  I would not support something that has no chance to work and just burdens law abiding gun owners.

There are some things we can do that will help.  I am not convinced in a nation of 300 million we can do much to stop random mass shootings.  But my ears are open.

Every gun owner is a law abiding gun owner, until they shoot up a school.

What you are really saying is "Anything you propose, I'm not going to support."

Ten years ago, I felt different. Now, I'm pretty much in the "ban em all" camp. And its assholes like you and pilot and smax that have pushed me there.

Keep it up bro. In two or four years, you are going to have a Dem president, Dem House, and Dem Senate. I suggest you make some proposals now, push your reps to implement them, while you still can. Because in two or four years, you law abiding gun owners are going to get bent the fuck over. And I'm not going to give a shit. 

[Helobious 9,467]

4 minutes ago, Mole said:

I appreciate the use of "data" as a plural, but in this case, it doesn't read very well.

Assuming that these types of random shootings have increased (not necessarily school shootings as a whole), what has changed culturally for Millenials and the new generation? Even if we're on the whole less violent, this type of violence is a sign of something broken. The Columbine kids were born in the early 80s, so what is different about GenX high school life and Millenial and post-Millenial high school life?  Data on the number of in-school fights? Fewer opportunities to resolve frustrations physically? Something about the digital age? Impulse control? The way we raise and teach boys? Something else?

I'm perfectly happy with common sense gun laws that can decrease the body count, but something deeper is going on that goes beyond "mental health."

I graduated high school less than 10 years ago. I don’t know how it was “back in the day” but I know in my middle/high school fights were severely punished. If you were involved in a fight, no matter how or why, you’d be handcuffed by campus police and marched to the office, and then issued a citation. With a court date and everything. The fine for it could be over $200 sometimes. You’d be suspended as well, either sentenced to ISS or alternative school depending on the circumstance. So if you were bullied in school or had problems with someone, you could either fight and deal with all the legal trouble, tell a teacher and be labeled a snitch, or just do nothing and internalize all your anger and frustration. Zero tolerance.

[Brisketexan 105,448]

Oh shit. I know the family.

There’s already a fake page up with a Hillary cap shopped onto his head, and the antifa logo as well.

Perfect.

[High Plains Drifter 11,052]

16 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I’ve never understood the civilian need for high cap mags, other than convenience. 

Why not pick a number like 6-12 and that’s the limit?

if suppressor purchases are highly scrutinized, why not high cap mags too?

Because that would "burden lawful gun owners."

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

11 minutes ago, Mole said:

I appreciate the use of "data" as a plural, but in this case, it doesn't read very well.

Assuming that these types of random shootings have increased (not necessarily school shootings as a whole), what has changed culturally for Millenials and the new generation? Even if we're on the whole less violent, this type of violence is a sign of something broken. The Columbine kids were born in the early 80s, so what is different about GenX high school life and Millenial and post-Millenial high school life?  Data on the number of in-school fights? Fewer opportunities to resolve frustrations physically? Something about the digital age? Impulse control? The way we raise and teach boys? Something else?

I'm perfectly happy with common sense gun laws that can decrease the body count, but something deeper is going on that goes beyond "mental health."

Social media is likely the big difference.  Part of it is that it allows bullying to occur 24/7, but the bigger part may simply be perception.  You see people posting happy times with friends and family on facebook, and you start to think your life sucks in comparison.  Even adults struggle with that, but adults have reached emotional maturity so the end result isn't the same.  In the 80s, the cheerleaders may have ignored a kid and the jocks may have fucked with a kid but it mostly ended at the school doors.

[Mole 4,333]

2 minutes ago, Helobious said:

So if you were bullied in school or had problems with someone, you could either fight and deal with all the legal trouble, tell a teacher and be labeled a snitch, or just do nothing and internalize all your anger and frustration. Zero tolerance.

 

I graduated the year before Columbine. I remember some fights in schools with relatively minor consequences (detention, maybe ISS). I really wonder if we need more minor violence such as fights in schools to let off some of the steam. I remember in middle school the bullied kids eventually getting fed up and fighting their bullies. It seemed to resolve most of the frustration. Does that happen anymore?

[Tailleur17 361]

14 minutes ago, Mole said:

If that's the case, and it very well might be, surely it wouldn't be hard for a researcher to whip of data on home life of the kids who have done this.

I have no idea, are schools different? Parenting is obviously huge. Why does it always seem to be white males?

Harder than you'd think. By nature, most parents/kids are very insular about their homelives and don't want anyone to know how good/bad things really are. 

Kids don't get enough love/affection/support from their parents, anger/resentment builds up over time in the kids- and when combined with any pre-existing mental issues, our "sit on your ass and do nothing" digital society, and the general societal discordance that this country is plagued with....and you get this.

Obviously it's more complicated than this but I do believe it starts with the parenting initially.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Tailleur17

[GlenFromTheMailRoom 1,613]

15 minutes ago, Hate said:

exactly.

The sad thing is, it's being used as an easy out to side step the issue.   There's simple no need for high capacity magazines to be owned by civilians.  Period.  That's an inarguable point.   Kids lives are more important than the inconvenience of having to load your gun twice instead of once.  That argument is stupid.

Edited May 18, 2018 by GlenFromTheMailRoom

[fattyflattie 4,638]

7 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

Every gun owner is a law abiding gun owner, until they shoot up a school.

What you are really saying is "Anything you propose, I'm not going to support."

Ten years ago, I felt different. Now, I'm pretty much in the "ban em all" camp. And its assholes like you and pilot and smax that have pushed me there.

Keep it up bro. In two or four years, you are going to have a Dem president, Dem House, and Dem Senate. I suggest you make some proposals now, push your reps to implement them, while you still can. Because in two or four years, you law abiding gun owners are going to get bent the fuck over. And I'm not going to give a shit. 

Lolol. Nope. 

[Mole 4,333]

3 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Social media is likely the big difference.  Part of it is that it allows bullying to occur 24/7, but the bigger part may simply be perception.  You see people posting happy times with friends and family on facebook, and you start to think your life sucks in comparison.  Even adults struggle with that, but adults have reached emotional maturity so the end result isn't the same.  In the 80s, the cheerleaders may have ignored a kid and the jocks may have fucked with a kid but it mostly ended at the school doors.

I'd agree that this magnifies things and is probably part of it, but if Columbine is the start of this, this uptick started before the explosion of social media. At most, Columbine kids had an email address.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Mole

[Tailleur17 361]

4 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Social media is likely the big difference.  Part of it is that it allows bullying to occur 24/7, but the bigger part may simply be perception.  You see people posting happy times with friends and family on facebook, and you start to think your life sucks in comparison.  Even adults struggle with that, but adults have reached emotional maturity so the end result isn't the same.  In the 80s, the cheerleaders may have ignored a kid and the jocks may have fucked with a kid but it mostly ended at the school doors.

Yup. Bullying these days is on a whole different level than it was even, say 10-15 years ago. That definitely plays a large role.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Tailleur17

[BigHorn'13 3,387]

Serious question to those who want to ban "high capacity" mags and even guns--where do they go and how are they to be collected? I heard awhile back (super reliable, I know) that there are more guns in the public than there are people. And no one has just one magazine. 

Just wondering what that process would look like and how you'd ensure everything is collected. 

[Moby Ric 2,058]

Q Anon followers are going full conspiracy today. This was his post yesterday.

 
May 17 2018 13:13:19 (EST)


>>1444682
What is the common theme when bad news is about to break (against them)?
Stay vigilant. 
Q

[Big_kat 334]

29 minutes ago, Smax said:

 

yeah youre a stud shot but cant define what an assault rifle is

From Merriam-Webster:

any of various intermediate-range, magazine-fed military rifles (such as the AK-47) that can be set for automatic or semiautomatic fire; also: a rifle that resembles a military assault rifle but is designed to allow only semiautomatic fire

 

 

How is that much different from what I said?  Sorry you got your panties in a wad because I insulted your shooting/ hunting skills.

[Helobious 9,467]

Just now, BigHorn'13 said:

Serious question to those who want to ban "high capacity" mags and even guns--where do they go and how are they to be collected? I heard awhile back (super reliable, I know) that there are more guns in the public than there are people. And no one has just one magazine. 

Just wondering what that process would look like and how you'd ensure everything is collected. 

Collect nothing, just ban new ones from being made and sold. They’ll be cheap and easy to find on the black market immediately. How cheap and easy will they be to get in 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

[Capn81 373]

I'd agree that this magnifies things and is probably part of it, but if Columbine is the start of this, this uptick started before the explosion of social media. At most, Columbine kids had an email address.

 

When did the uptick really start? I would say that Columbine was the first OMG moment, but I would argue that Social Media was in full effect when the real swing started.

[GringoSalado 1,652]

50 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

The long game would be to find politicians that are for legislation, fund them well enough to not feel the need to take nra money, as well as be able to take on a nra funded opponent, and over a few cycles get enough people in congress to make the changes. 

I don't understand this mentality. So what if they take the NRA's money, they are still free to enact gun control legislation. The Leg. doesn't want to pass gun control, not because they are afraid of the NRA, but because they are afraid their constituents will vote them out of office like the last time they tried this (and that law didn't do any good so it looks like a lose/lose situation from their perspective).

[fattyflattie 4,638]

1 minute ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Serious question to those who want to ban "high capacity" mags and even guns--where do they go and how are they to be collected? I heard awhile back (super reliable, I know) that there are more guns in the public than there are people. And no one has just one magazine. 

Just wondering what that process would look like and how you'd ensure everything is collected. 

You can’t. We can however tighten up the ability to get them, etc, which as an owner of 25+ guns, I am in favor of. 

[Big_kat 334]

3 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Serious question to those who want to ban "high capacity" mags and even guns--where do they go and how are they to be collected? I heard awhile back (super reliable, I know) that there are more guns in the public than there are people. And no one has just one magazine. 

Just wondering what that process would look like and how you'd ensure everything is collected. 

You ban the sale of new ones.  It would be impossible to track down all of those magazines.  

[GringoSalado 1,652]

44 minutes ago, Big_kat said:

 

Incorrect, Assault Rifle is a term of art describing a select-fire weapon (meaning capable of automatic fire).

[Hate 20,146]

Go ahead and ban assault rifles and high capacity magazines.  How would that have helped today if the early reports that he used a shotgun are accurate?  

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

2 minutes ago, Mole said:

I graduated the year before Columbine. I remember some fights in schools with relatively minor consequences (detention, maybe ISS). I really wonder if we need more minor violence such as fights in schools to let off some of the steam. I remember in middle school the bullied kids eventually getting fed up and fighting their bullies. It seemed to resolve most of the frustration. Does that happen anymore?

I graduated a few years before that.  There were a lot of fights between students off school grounds, but not too many at school itself, mostly just to avoid the repercussions of fighting at school.  However, from middle school up, most kids of all ages and social statuses would be outside after school instead of going straight home.  Kids now never seem to do anything outside of home or school unsupervised.  Where would they even have a fight to resolve that type of tension anymore?  

[Mole 4,333]

3 minutes ago, Capn81 said:

 

When did the uptick really start? I would argue that Columbine was the first OMG moment, but I would argue that Social Media was in full effect when the real swing started.

 

This is a valid question. VTech? Before? After? Facebook become open to everyone in 2006.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,528]

Just now, Hate said:

Go ahead and ban assault rifles and high capacity magazines.  How would that have helped today if the early reports that he used a shotgun are accurate?  

No one is saying that every measure would prevent every shooting.   If that is the bar, then we will continue to see as many or maybe more shootings.

[Capn81 373]

This is a valid question. VTech? Before? After? Facebook become open to everyone in 2006.

I think you might be right with Va Tech. It would be interesting to see a stat overlay with each type of social media launch.

[DDD Dad 14,352]

Pretty sure I posted this link on Shaggy after the Parkland shooting but it's worth a repost here.

The mental health issue isn't what most really think it is, and the NRA and those touting it as a mental health issue need to consider wholesale, extremely expensive, and questionably effective means if they truly intend to address this on those grounds.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/23/podcasts/the-daily/gun-access-mentally-ill.html

[GreenspointTexas 9,685]

2 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

I graduated a few years before that.  There were a lot of fights between students off school grounds, but not too many at school itself, mostly just to avoid the repercussions of fighting at school.  However, from middle school up, most kids of all ages and social statuses would be outside after school instead of going straight home.  Kids now never seem to do anything outside of home or school unsupervised.  Where would they even have a fight to resolve that type of tension anymore?  

 

[GlenFromTheMailRoom 1,613]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

No one is saying that every measure would prevent every shooting.   If that is the bar, then we will continue to see as many or maybe more shootings.

Something just needs to be done.  It doesn't need to be perfect.  Not everyone needs to be happy.  But something needs to be done.

[PW119 167]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The problem is what would make someone want to shoot up a school?  

Even if you removed all guns, these highly disturbed individuals would be in the population going untreated.

I’m for some gun legislation to reduce body counts but that’s still largely ignoring the underlying problem.

Hugo, I rarely agree with anything you say.  But you are spot-on here.

[huge 3,795]

You can’t. We can however tighten up the ability to get them, etc, which as an owner of 25+ guns, I am in favor of. 

 

Count me in the “multiple gun owner just fine with more regulations” camp

[PW119 167]

Just now, Hate said:

Go ahead and ban assault rifles and high capacity magazines.  How would that have helped today if the early reports that he used a shotgun are accurate?  

WTF?

OK, the ban wouldn't have effected today's events.  So?  Wait until a kid uses a high capacity magazine, then ban?

[Txzen 498]

9 minutes ago, Capn81 said:

 

When did the uptick really start? I would say that Columbine was the first OMG moment, but I would argue that Social Media was in full effect when the real swing started.

It's a great question. The hell of it that Congress has effectively limited the ability to research these questions by the CDC. Declare this a public health crisis, get the research started and see how we might impact this beyond just gun control (insights into teen social media, access to mental health and counseling, etc.). 

[jimmyjazz 46,245]

12 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Collect nothing, just ban new ones from being made and sold. They’ll be cheap and easy to find on the black market immediately. How cheap and easy will they be to get in 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

I'll suggest that the billionaire club, a not-tiny percentage of which seems to be of the opinion that it is their duty to spend most of their fortunes on philanthropy, could focus on buying up those magazines.  There's your philanthropy.

How much of the current float could be bought with $10B?