Shooter reported at Santa Fe, Texas school

[Modessit 5606]

Nah. We need more and smaller schools. Way too easy for kids to get lost in the shuffle. 1500 kids at Santa Fe. 3200 in Parkland.  4 30 kid classes per grade. Keep the classes together with the same kids through all core curriculum. Everyone should know everyone at their high school. Suburban schools are far too big and operate way too much like colleges.

I attended two High School's.  

I was bullied a lot at the first (9th and 10th) - total enrollment maybe 500. I grew up with almost all those kids from kindergarten on up. I was not happy. Nobody gave a shit. I wasn't bullied because I was ugly or small. I was bullied because I was a brain who always got the highest grades and because I didn't fight back so I was an easy target.

 

We moved to a different state.

 

I wasn't bullied at all at the second (11th and 12th) - total enrollment about 2700. Had friends from all groups - nerds, jocks, hot chicks, stoners, etc.

 

Smaller schools and familiarity don't mean better lives. You've heard "familiarity breeds contempt". Kids in small towns who are singled out and picked on in 3rd or 4th grade rarely get to high school without being the target of bigger bullies. The damage to the self esteem when young can linger for many years until you finally blow up at a Katy school board meeting.

 

It took going to the military to really boost my confidence level back up. And I still hold a grudge against certain bullies from my small town days. They wouldn't want to mess with me now. I don't sit and brood over it and let it control my happiness. I only think about it when stuff like this happens and I think about my days then.

 

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8822]

16 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Give him a Nobel Peace Prize. Fuck the haters. He’s an American hero.

https://twitter.com/markbermanfox26/status/997678868407386113?s=21

 

 

 

this world needs more JJ Watts

Edited May 19, 2018 by MNLonghornFUKM

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, Modessit said:

I attended two High School's.

I was bullied a lot at the first (9th and 10th) - total enrollment maybe 500. I grew up with almost all those kids from kindergarten on up. I was not happy. Nobody gave a shit.

We moved to a different state.

I wasn't bullied at all at the second (11th and 12th) - total enrollment about 2700. Had friends from all groups - nerds, jocks, hot chicks, stoners, etc.

Smaller schools and familiarity don't mean better lives. You've heard "familiarity breeds contempt". Kids in small towns who are singled out and picked on in 3rd or 4th grade rarely get to high school without being the target of bigger bullies. The damage to the self esteem when young can linger for many years until you finally blow up at a Katy school board meeting.

Nobody may have given a shit, but they all knew who you were. And if you were on the cusp of shooting up the place, people would have known.  I know it isnt a solution to bullying in itself, but it would limit shootings and other school engagement activities could temper bullying somewhat. 

Much is made of bullying and school shootings, but most of the actual bullying in those cases are minor. The bigger deal is that kids can avoid bullying by being friendless at large schools, and nobody notices or cares until they're giving an interview about how they kind of "knew of" the shooter but didnt really "know" him.  Meanwhile, he claims to hate all of them 

[Modessit 5606]

 

 

 

Nobody may have given a shit, but they all knew who you were. And if you were on the cusp of shooting up the place, people would have known.

 

Bullshit. Nobody knew but the kids doing the bullying or watching it but not doing anything to stop it. Not the teachers who don't see you getting tripped or punched in the hallway. Not the coach who ignores the "rough-housing" in the locker room after PE. Not my parents who I didn't want to admit my weakness to. To all of them - there was no problem. I still got good grades. I enjoyed my home life and my one good friend (who actually bullied my a little when we were about 8 but stopped). I actually thought about taking a knife to school so that I could stab the next kid who thought they could corner me and punch me where nobody could see. But I didn't. But I wanted to. Nobody knew. And I felt nobody cared.

 

The hardest thing for some kids to realize is that it's temporary. Because they are forced to go to school and forced to be around their bullies and forced to be in situations that lead to pain - they can't see that there is light at the end of the tunnel. They can't see that being smart, or dumb, or small, or gay, or "different" - it won't matter to most people after high school. I didn't. That's why I was happy to leave at 16 even though all my Grandparents, Aunts & Uncles, and lots of cousins would be left behind. I was ready to be me and not the image of me that everyone had formed over the years.

 

I dont want to keep dwelling on this subject, but don't think being in the same class for 10 years means you'll "know" that person. Only real friends and family will be close enough to notice if the signs are there. How many people have you worked with for years that you don't really know that well?

 

[Pato del Muerto 52619]

Gotta have big schools to pool the talent to have a good football team. 

[TexArcher 38078]

58 minutes ago, Modessit said:

After the Parkland one, someone on the radio said the only real way to stop school shootings is to stop going to school. Do it all online via teleconferencing.

Right.  We can either get rid of the guns or we can close schools.  So, obviously we should close the schools.  And the shopping malls.  And every other public place.  It's the only way.

    

[Michael Knight 12995]

Quote

he number of children killed by gunfire in the U.S. since the 2012 mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, surpasses the total of American soldiers killed in overseas combat since 9/11, according to a Department of Defense report.

The report accounts for total deaths in the five military operations since the war on terror began following the September 11, 2001 attacks through 10 a.m. EST Thursday, March 15. Over 17 years of combat, the U.S. has lost 6,929 soldiers. Including Department of Defense civilians killed overseas, that number grows to 6,950.

Quote

In the five years and three months since the December 14, 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook in Newtown, Connecticut, when 20-year-old Adam Lanza killed 20 first graders and six adults with an AR-15-style rifle, about 7,000 children have died by gunfire. Though the exact figure is unclear, it rivals the tally of U.S. military deaths overseas—in 11 fewer years. 

 

Maybe if we call every child a hero it will help

http://www.newsweek.com/gun-violence-children-killed-sandy-hook-military-soldiers-war-terror-911-848602

[Updawg 2286]

Social media makes the bullying even worse.

[Helobious 9467]

It’s being reported that the shooter spared several students he liked, and may have explicitly targeted several of his victims.

[bernorange 8367]

1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

Nah. We need more and smaller schools. Way too easy for kids to get lost in the shuffle. 1500 kids at Santa Fe. 3200 in Parkland.  4 30 kid classes per grade. Keep the classes together with the same kids through all core curriculum. Everyone should know everyone at their high school. Suburban schools are far too big and operate way too much like colleges.

Is hell freezing over? +rep to you. 

[cactusflinthead 27606]

I saw that too about targeting and sparing. 

I tried to reply to this at least three times today. I texted my daughter while she was in class. When I didn't  get a reply back as soon as I thought I should I sent another. 

dad, I am in class. what? I was the one that told her. utterly nonplussed

I love you.

Dammit. I don't know that ducking and covering from the tornado was any better, it is surely just as random. At least we have some radar for the twisters.

Y'all rail upon Brisket for his impressions of Cassandra. Maybe it is more like Amos. Or Jeremiah. So fucking what if he brings the room down. You, me and everybody got to contend with those things. These very very uncomfortable thoughts of rage and ignorance. That's where we live today people. Some dumb ass mfer showed up with his flag and hat and gun. While the bodies were still warm.

And that is completely normal

and the girl that couldn't look at the camera. where is she going to be in ten years? Whose kid is that? Goddammit, this shit gotta stop. 

even Johnny Sack is willing to listen. Props to you sir. I will rep you manana when I get some again, I wore it out earlier today around here.

[Capn81 373]

Are you still working the "they do it to be famous" angle?  

Are we sure that there is not something to this? Not saying to be famous, but a sense of not belonging leads to depression. Our “like” culture leads to wanting to be known. To be talked about. I do not think famous is the right word, but it seems horribly irresponsible to rule this out.

[fattyflattie 4638]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

That’s a big part of the reason I have maintained that gun owners MUST be part of the solution. If we don’t work together with the rest of society, we’ll eventually be completely marginalized and have no further voice.

Sure, there are some over-the-top solutions offered by people who don’t know any better. So, instead of telling them “fuck off, you ain’t touching my guns!”, I try to actually explain to them that there are good reasons why solutions like that aren’t practical or helpful, BUT, here’s an alternative that can help us achieve similar results.

For example, I have never favored an “assault weapons ban” because it’s meaningless: a semi auto is a semi auto. It’s rate of fire X available ammo that is problematic, so I support magazine size limits instead.

I am literally at a ranch right now, the boy and I are doing a work weekend to help get ready for hunting season. We’ll probably unwind tomorrow shooting skeet, then maybe varmint hunting after dark. Guns are an everyday part of our family...but where things stand right now is unacceptable. I believe that if we are intelligent and not just tribal, we can implement some actual improvements.

But I also know that won’t happen, because “gun nuts!” And “libtards!” And nobody will compromise. Not a single inch. The solutions are out there, in the middle, just waiting for sanity to allow us to pick them up. They’re going to wait forever.

Briskets back!!

I’m 100% with you. The “gun nuts” don’t want to give an inch, for fear of a mile taken. The “anti gun” folks literally couldn’t care less about guns as they don’t hold a place in their life, so explaining your ranch trip with jr to them falls on deaf ears. Who will move first? I’ve stated I’m for aggressive checks on the front end/during ownership. I also don’t see the need for anything further than what’s avail now to be legal. That said, limiting quantities etc is a non starter for me. Have fun on your trip. 

Edited May 19, 2018 by fattyflattie

[VivaNaranja 466]

I'm not buying the explanation that high schools are too big these days. Too many of these are in small rural towns like Italy Texas, Aztec New Mexico, and Benton Kentucky for that to be the cause

[cactusflinthead 27606]

weregild. might want to look that up

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4979]

I'm not arguing that maybe we shouldn't look at magazine size restrictions for centerfire rifles or universal free background checks (which is something many gun owners have asked for for years and oddly enough Democrats have opposed), but kids thirty or forty years ago had much more access to guns than they do now. We may have more guns now, but we also generally do a better job of securing them. Kids don't go to school with a shotgun in the gun rack of their truck so they can shoot dove after school or a rifle for deer or anything like that these days. Despite all that, we've seen an increase in shootings like this. I just don't see how a lot of extra gun control is going to fix this when the access to guns is lower yet school shootings are higher.

[Buzzrock 14949]

But I also know that won’t happen, because “gun nuts!” And “libtards!” And nobody will compromise. Not a single inch. The solutions are out there, in the middle, just waiting for sanity to allow us to pick them up. They’re going to wait forever.

It’s the same two completely unproductive arguments that are trotted out every time this happens. I don’t care what either of those groups has to say about this. Which is why securing the schools is the answer.

[Dahobbs 17700]

14 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 

It’s the same two completely unproductive arguments that are trotted out every time this happens. I don’t care what either of those groups has to say about this. Which is why securing the schools is the answer.

 

Turning schools into prisons seems like it might have some severe negative side effects. 

[Dark Horse 2291]

 

It’s the same two completely unproductive arguments that are trotted out every time this happens. I don’t care what either of those groups has to say about this. Which is why securing the schools is the answer.

So let’s pretend that we can somehow make schools 100% safe and no gun could possibly enter.

 

Does this prevent these kids from wanting to murder their classmates? Does it prevent psychopaths from getting their hands on .223 rifles with multiple 30 round clips?

 

Won’t they just choose another location to carry out their revenge on the world? Are they just going to throw up their hands and say, “well I was going to murder numerous innocent people, but it’s just too hard to get into my fortress of a school, maybe I’ll just call the whole thing off!”

 

 

 

[CooterBrown 18033]

Nah. We need more and smaller schools. Way too easy for kids to get lost in the shuffle. 1500 kids at Santa Fe. 3200 in Parkland.  4 30 kid classes per grade. Keep the classes together with the same kids through all core curriculum. Everyone should know everyone at their high school. Suburban schools are far too big and operate way too much like colleges.

I’ve always argued this to just improve school performance. Neighbor schools engage kids, families, and the community. That makes schools better and kids better.

But then there’s the sports assholes who just give a shit about a football pipeline.

[fattyflattie 4638]

5 minutes ago, Dark Horse said:

So let’s pretend that we can somehow make schools 100% safe and no gun could possibly enter.

 

Does this prevent these kids from wanting to murder their classmates? Does it prevent psychopaths from getting their hands on .223 rifles with multiple 30 round clips?

 

Won’t they just choose another location to carry out their revenge on the world? Are they just going to throw up their hands and say, “well I was going to murder numerous innocent people, but it’s just too hard to get into my fortress of a school, maybe I’ll just call the whole thing off!”

 

 

 

Of course it does not, but at that point a vehicle careening into a crowd is just as effective, and those incidents seem to happening more and more frequently.   Then it’s no longer just a gun issue, but a mental health, stopping a person who wants to mass murder issue. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4979]

I think stopping adults/terrorists from killing people with a van/truck, guns, airplanes, or whatever is kind of a separate issue from kids shooting up their schools. Related, but separate, especially when the motivation is political or religious terrorism. 

[fattyflattie 4638]

1 hour ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I think stopping adults/terrorists from killing people with a van/truck, guns, airplanes, or whatever is kind of a separate issue from kids shooting up their schools. Related, but separate, especially when the motivation is political or religious terrorism. 

I agree, but was replying to Dark Horse purely with regards to what’s next, should the schools become 100% safe.  As we all know, people intent on killing people will use whatever they can get. 

[Hank Kingsley 21060]

1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

 

It’s the same two completely unproductive arguments that are trotted out every time this happens. I don’t care what either of those groups has to say about this. Which is why securing the schools is the answer.

 

Think a bit more deeply about this.  Imagine the societal effect of the current and future generations attending school with high security.  Active shooter drills, metal detectors, bulletproof glass, clear backpacks, teachers with guns, etc. 10 year olds should not be mentally preparing for a possible bloody massacre in school, and this will have long term ramifications for American society. All because a bunch of people want to shoot certain firearms for sport with little to no restrictions.

Guns >>> children. That's America.

 

[staboner 4988]

8 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

weregild. might want to look that up

ugh. terrible. 

[jimmyjazz 46245]

10 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

I’m 100% with you. The “gun nuts” don’t want to give an inch, for fear of a mile taken. The “anti gun” folks literally couldn’t care less about guns as they don’t hold a place in their life, so explaining your ranch trip with jr to them falls on deaf ears. Who will move first? I’ve stated I’m for aggressive checks on the front end/during ownership. I also don’t see the need for anything further than what’s avail now to be legal. That said, limiting quantities etc is a non starter for me. Have fun on your trip. 

I don't think that's really true.  I've related that, outside of a Crosman C02 BB gun I owned as a boy, I've pulled a trigger twice in my life -- a 0.410 shotgun and a 0.22 rifle.  Once each gun.  They have just never been a part of my life.

BUT, I grew up in the rural midwest and I saw how much a part of others' lives they were.  I don't want to take them all away.  I want what I consider to be modest changes in the law that I believe will have a real effect in reducing these events.  That's it.  To say "I couldn't care less" is just wrong.  I want responsible people to be able to own most of what they can currently own.

[Bill Brasky 1465]

The last place society wants to look for a solution is in the mirror. It is much easier to blame guns or the government or whatever than to look at what kind of young adults are being put out into the world.  

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4979]

It'll be interesting to see what happens when the current generation finishing high school starts hitting the job market. I'd imagine we will see some of these same types of issues (not mass shootings, but the stuff that is making so many teens want to kill everyone) play out in the business world.

[Bullneck 19216]

"Are we sure that there is not something to this? Not saying to be famous, but a sense of not belonging leads to depression. Our “like” culture leads to wanting to be known. To be talked about. I do not think famous is the right word, but it seems horribly irresponsible to rule this out."

 

What difference does it make what the motivation is?  If people who shouldn't have guns can't get them they can't shoot people. 

(Edit: I screwed that up.  I meant to quote the "get famous" post.  Fixed now.)

 

Edited May 19, 2018 by Bullneck

[Bullneck 19216]

23 minutes ago, Bill Brasky said:

The last place society wants to look for a solution is in the mirror. It is much easier to blame guns or the government or whatever than to look at what kind of young adults are being put out into the world.  

Uh, yeah.  Want to know why?  Answer: people shoot people using guns.  

[Dark Horse 2291]

It'll be interesting to see what happens when the current generation finishing high school starts hitting the job market. I'd imagine we will see some of these same types of issues (not mass shootings, but the stuff that is making so many teens want to kill everyone) play out in the business world.

Columbine was almost 20 years ago. We’re already in the work place.

[Lurch 5931]

I'm not arguing that maybe we shouldn't look at magazine size restrictions for centerfire rifles or universal free background checks (which is something many gun owners have asked for for years and oddly enough Democrats have opposed), but kids thirty or forty years ago had much more access to guns than they do now. We may have more guns now, but we also generally do a better job of securing them. Kids don't go to school with a shotgun in the gun rack of their truck so they can shoot dove after school or a rifle for deer or anything like that these days. Despite all that, we've seen an increase in shootings like this. I just don't see how a lot of extra gun control is going to fix this when the access to guns is lower yet school shootings are higher.

Where in the world did you pick up that Democrats Oppose Free Background Check talking point?

[Hank Kingsley 21060]

1 hour ago, Bill Brasky said:

The last place society wants to look for a solution is in the mirror. It is much easier to blame guns or the government or whatever than to look at what kind of young adults are being put out into the world.  

Yes, people are the problem. Our society has failed. So it’s time to place strong restrictions on gun ownership. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4979]

28 minutes ago, Dark Horse said:

Columbine was almost 20 years ago. We’re already in the work place.
 

It seems to be happening much more frequently with this generation and I'm of the opinion that some of that is due to societal problems growing up such as socialization being driven by the internet instead of face to face contact and some of how we have zero tolerance policies that prevent kids from working their problems out on their own instead of letting it build up until the idea of shooting up a school seems reasonable to a kid.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4979]

14 minutes ago, Lurch said:

 

Where in the world did you pick up that Democrats Oppose Free Background Check talking point?

 

I seem to recall something about a background check bill that would have created a system where private transactions could use the NICS system without invading the privacy of potential buyers, but that it saw opposition from Democrats because they didn't feel it was strong enough so they opposed it while offering their own politically unworkable solution. I could easily be mistaken though, and the fix the NICS bill has polluted search results enough that it's tough to find anything on it. But like I said, I could easily be mistaken.

[Lurch 5931]

5 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I seem to recall something about a background check bill that would have created a system where private transactions could use the NICS system without invading the privacy of potential buyers, but that it saw opposition from Democrats because they didn't feel it was strong enough so they opposed it while offering their own politically unworkable solution. I could easily be mistaken though, and the fix the NICS bill has polluted search results enough that it's tough to find anything on it. But like I said, I could easily be mistaken.

I hope youve learned something from this.

[Ldogg53 514]

Yeah so I met the shooter about 18 months ago. Younger brother of one of my vendors. Ran into them at the Ren Fest. All I remember about him was that he seemed autistic or something. Hearing the interviews where people say he was bullied doesn’t surprise me at all.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

11 minutes ago, Ldogg53 said:

Yeah so I met the shooter about 18 months ago. Younger brother of one of my vendors. Ran into them at the Ren Fest. All I remember about him was that he seemed autistic or something. Hearing the interviews where people say he was bullied doesn’t surprise me at all.

Anyone who attends Ren Fest needs to be profiled. 

[Bill Brasky 1465]

4 hours ago, Bullneck said:

Uh, yeah.  Want to know why?  Answer: people shoot people using guns.  

Exactly.  People shoot the guns.  The guns don't shoot themselves.  

[Helobious 9467]

Guns don’t protect people, people protect people.

[Celery Man 21004]

Just as a whatever regarding the small schools vs big schools thing -  I think kids really need to be involved in something at big schools.  Probably at small schools too, but definitely big ones.  I was a band nerd.  I had a couple of other groups of friends - AP kids, people who also played in garage bands, kids I knew from intermediate/elementary/whatever, but it was a big school and band was my large group of HS friends and people I interacted with.  Not really much in the way of bullying kids like that because they were with their own self selected group and the stoners or jocks or whatever other group would have had to go out of their way if they wanted to do some bullying.  But I could imagine getting lost or feeling isolated if I wasn't part of any group in a school of that size.

 

Here's the thing about taking a look in the mirror and fixing our society, or addressing this as mental illness unrelated to guns - there are no fucking levers to pull.  We can't fix our society.  We could be doing way better with mental illness, but that's a code word for "a solution that doesn't effect me" and it falls apart when addressing mental illness in a real way does start to impact people.  We should work on those problems, and we have to do it on a micro level, but I think a large portion of the time that people say "this is a societal problem/it's about mental illness" they're trying to move the spotlight away from guns rather than actually talk about what could reduce the amount and severity of this.

[austingirl 2192]

Haven't read this whole thing. My college roommate's dad was the mayor of Santa Fe back in the late 90s-early aughts. Spent some time there with her. It's a sweet little town close to the Gulf, much like where I grew up. I'm so sad and tired of all this. I don't know what the answer is. I don't know what will fix it. I just know that whatever fixes it will be change. Something different from what we're doing/not doing now. I know this because we have yet to do anything that has helped. It's getting worse, not better. I'm sad and tired and sick that sending my kids to school and my husband to work makes me nervous.

As someone who has lived with depression for almost the last decade, and who has several family members being treated for it as well, I can say from experience (as can many of you) that treating mental health is terribly complex and treatment success varies wildly among individuals. Because of this, it seems like limiting access to firearms, or certain kinds of firearms, has a much better chance of bringing down the number of mass shootings in the short term. But what the fuck do I know. My love to everyone in Santa Fe.

[PRONG HORN 3161]

9 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Turning schools into prisons seems like it might have some severe negative side effects. 

 

What do you think they might be?

[Lurch 5931]

 
What do you think they might be?

It’s the money we’ll eventually use for the gun buyback. Let’s just start now.

[Dahobbs 17700]

1 hour ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

What do you think they might be?

The longterm pyschological effect of having our children growing up in prison? It was talked about earlier in the thread. If the thought doesnt seem depressing to you...

And that isnt to say increased security is itself bad. Just that if youre not willing to discuss anything but increased security in schools, then youre necessarilly forcing the creation of "maximum security" schools, which cannot be healthy for a society. Multi pronged approach that includes reasonable restrictions on guns seems the most reasonable and likely to succeed. 

[Bullneck 19216]

3 hours ago, Bill Brasky said:

Exactly.  People shoot the guns.  The guns don't shoot themselves.  

So if you don't want people to shoot each other and you can remove one of the two factors, which is it?  The people or the guns?

[Michael Knight 12995]

Guns don't kill people, entrances and exits kill people

[fattyflattie 4638]

7 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't think that's really true.  I've related that, outside of a Crosman C02 BB gun I owned as a boy, I've pulled a trigger twice in my life -- a 0.410 shotgun and a 0.22 rifle.  Once each gun.  They have just never been a part of my life.

BUT, I grew up in the rural midwest and I saw how much a part of others' lives they were.  I don't want to take them all away.  I want what I consider to be modest changes in the law that I believe will have a real effect in reducing these events.  That's it.  To say "I couldn't care less" is just wrong.  I want responsible people to be able to own most of what they can currently own.

Ok, I’ll take your post at face value, but I maintain there were many people who were making blanket statements of “no guns, no reason to have them, guns > kids murica, your hobbies arent worth the cost” etc.  I just don’t care to dig back thru shaggy to find it. Maybe it was becuase many were overrun with emotions at the time, that’s understandable, but I’m not lying.  

Of course your post leaves some of gray, with the “most of what’s available now”, but I have no issue with anything you posted.  

All I want is a dozen or so shotguns (mostly all O/U) and about 12-20 bolt action/double barrel/semi auto  (think BAR, not AR) rifles, and a few pistols (idgaf about handguns really) for home self defense.  I know that sounds like an arsenal, but really someone that hunts a range of animals and some shootings events, it isn’t.  If you account for the 8-10 that my grandfathers and great grandfathers passed down, some the only things they left us, it shrinks even faster. 

You aren’t going to find me advocating for 30 round magazines, bump stocks, automatic weapons etc.  I’ll be completely honest and tell you I don’t think the pro gun folks should give much ground, if any, on available weapons either. I don’t trust a politician as far as I could throw them and they take way more than they give. I would absolutely love both sides to come together and make access to arms much much harder. Background evals, psych evals, removal of arms after any criminal/psychological behavior, all that.  Studies the NRA has blocked, opened for studying, all that. 

What both sides needs to understand is everyone is tired of this shit. No one likes school insecurity. I have 3 girls under 6 ffs.  And I am going to raise them the same way I was, which includes shooting sports and hunting, responsibly.  Make no mistake it broke my heart trying to explain to my 5 yo why some people want to come into schools and shoot them (she asked after parkland sparked drills) 

This one hit me hard. Maybe because it is just down the street, maybe because parkland was so bad, and so recent, and those wounds have not yet healed.  But I think it goes so much deeper than even gun control. Added security, some type of mental health evals, and gun control. All freedoms that we will have to give a bit. That might slow this down. Nothing will stop it; too many sick people out there to ever stop it. 

One thing is for sure. It is an American problem, and it needs to be fixed. 

After parkland, on shag, I made the argument that a (12/20) shotgun would/could be even more disasterous than an AR. It wasn’t because I’m an AR guy (there are 0 in my safe) but to present truths to many “non-gun” types that can see ARs are choice for these events, but may not really understand guns in specific detail. Maybe that’s what makes me sick. Dude took a duck gun, and probably one of the most popular ever made (god knows how many are out there, I have several) and committed mass murder.  An 870 and a .38 revolver are polar opposites of an AR. 

Maybe the bulletproof pods I saw in the news are the answer. Man just mind draining. 

[jettrink 40]

Well said

[Michael Knight 12995]

10 years ago was the time for sensible gun laws , that fucking time has passed. Take them all away now, it's clear Americans can neither be trusted with them nor do they deserve them