2022 Hall of Fame

[Fastbreak 3948]

 

Yeah. But what is Ortiz’s obp if you turn all his outs into HRs? Case closed.

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2056]

just watched all 73 2001 homers in honor of this bullshit. Couldn’t help to notice how often Chan Ho Park showed up, and like cmon, those shouldn’t count. 

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

11 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

It’s a shame that all the people in charge of baseball seem to really dislike baseball.

These fucking sportswriters see themselves as the Gatekeepers of The Holy Shrine. 

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2056]

And here is baby faced rocket eating the Ms alive as a 23 year old  

 

 

 

 

[Scraps 13531]

Ortiz is about as hateable an athlete as they come.

Well you are wrong because him being the likeable goofy haha this is our fucking city etc. is probably 90% of the reason he got in 1st ballot

[Had Enough 2054]

just watched all 73 2001 homers in honor of this bullshit. Couldn’t help to notice how often Chan Ho Park showed up, and like cmon, those shouldn’t count. 

Looks like a lot of wind aided San Fran pop flys to me.

[WBT 20397]

Ah yes, the famously HR prone Pac Bell

[Mole 4318]

Bonds in particular is probably a victim of his own success. That drug-fueled early 2000s run was so absurd that is overshadows his pre-juice greatness. I get the argument that one of the small handful of most dominant players ever should be in the HOF, but it feels a bit icky to honor him, invite him to give a speech, etc. when his peak greatness was built on PEDs.

It’s not that he cheated more than some of his contemporaries who have made it in, but that his cheating briefly broke baseball and put him in the pantheon of greatest ever. A day honoring that seems strange, even if it’s irrational to specifically exclude him over other juicers who were less great. 

[Hank Chinaski 6310]

24 minutes ago, Mole said:

Bonds in particular is probably a victim of his own success. That drug-fueled early 2000s run was so absurd that is overshadows his pre-juice greatness. I get the argument that one of the small handful of most dominant players ever should be in the HOF, but it feels a bit icky to honor him, invite him to give a speech, etc. when his peak greatness was built on PEDs.

It’s not that he cheated more than some of his contemporaries who have made it in, but that his cheating briefly broke baseball and put him in the pantheon of greatest ever. A day honoring that seems strange, even if it’s irrational to specifically exclude him over other juicers who were less great. 

He was already in the “pantheon of greatest ever,” he was actually just underrated in the second half of the 90s with the emergence of Griffey and Thomas and then the McGwire/Sosa thing. He should have won 3 more MVPs in the 90s and he was a first-ballot HOFer if he retired after the 1998 season.

What happened from 01-04 was one of the great players of all time deciding “you know what, people want to see numbers, I’ll show you some fucking numbers.” In an era of widespread PED use in the late 90s, he was still the best player in the game. When he started using (leveling the playing field, you could say), he was the best hitter of all time. OPS+ measures how good he was relative to the league…from 01-04 he posted OPS+ of 259, 268, 231, 263. He was 150% better than league average - which accounts for lots and lots of PED users - over a 4-year span. Yes, PEDs boosted those totals. But relative to a league full of users, he was on a different planet altogether.

I get that all this is beside the point to a lot of people - “he cheated” is all they care about. That’s fine and all, but I think you have to consider that MLB did absolutely nothing to enforce the “rules” back then, half his peers were doing it and being rewarded for it, and baseball itself benefitted from it. The climate was just different in that era. So fine, he used PEDs the last few years of his career, discount his production in those years by however much you want - 50%, 75%, hell 100%….he’s still a HOFer.

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2056]

yeah, everyone called it the steroid era for a reason.  everyone was roiding.  now that memories of JAGs have faded, all the focus is on the standouts and people seem to have lost the understanding that it was the entire culture at that time.  no one bitches about ken caminiti, luis gonzalez, troy glaus and whatever other dude ballooned up and hit 40 blasts out of nowhere anymore because no one remembers those guys. no one remembers that nobody could keep an ERA under 3.50.  everyone suddenly had 4 guys in their lineup that looked like canseco.  that's what frustrates me.  all the moralizing is post hoc finger wagging when we were all laughing about it at the time. 

 

Here's an article from 1995.  https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-07-15-sp-24265-story.html

 

Quote

Just how prevalent is steroid use?

“I think 10% to 20%,” Smith said. “No one has any hard-core proof, but there’s a lot of guys you suspect.”

Said one American League general manager, “I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s closer to 30%, although most people will say it’s about 5% to 10%. We had one team in our league a few years ago that the entire lineup may have been on it.

lulz at this quote.

Quote

Bud Selig, acting commissioner, said the topic was last addressed by owners in a private meeting a year or 18 months ago. The conclusion was that no one had any evidence that steroid use should be a concern.

“If baseball has a problem, I must say candidly that we were not aware of it,” Selig said. “It certainly hasn’t been talked about much. But should we concern ourselves as an industry? I don’t know. Maybe it’s time to bring it up again.”

lulz at selig:  i personally don't think steroids even exist, at least so long as we are making a ton of money off them.  perhaps later we can pin it on someone after the checks have cleared and i'm dead.

[Jshep34 2303]

If writers truly wanted to go full character clause for election into the hall, bud Selig would have received 0 votes. He was commissioner during the ped era, it happened under his watch. He was ok with it cause it brought money into the game.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Blotto 23418]

1 hour ago, WBT said:

Ah yes, the famously HR prone Pac Bell

When I was poking around youtube last night, there was a video of all of his HR's into McCovey Cove, and they included the following info. Between 2000 and 2007 bonds hit 35. It was until 2016 when the total of 71 was passed. So Bonds did in 8 seasons, what it took all of the rest of MLB 17 seasons to achieve.

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Schilling not getting in for his political opinions is bullshit.  He is an easy yes for anyone with any sense.  Bonds in Clemens should be in.

Plenty of roiders are in.  Including two of my favorite Astros of all time.  Most everyone was doing them in the 90s.  And most everyone was doing untestable HGH for a period after they started testing for steroids.

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2056]

interesting stat.  bonds has more intentional walks than the rays.

[66BUFF 2544]

I have a bigger issue with his hinged arm guard

By Michael Witte

NEW YORK (Commentary) Beyond his alleged steroid use, Barry Bonds is guilty of the use of something that confers extraordinarily unfair mechanical advantage: the “armor” that he wears on his right elbow. Amid the press frenzy over Bonds’ unnatural bulk, the true role of the object on his right arm has simply gone unnoticed.

This is unfortunate, because by my estimate, Bonds’ front arm “armor” may have contributed no fewer than 75 to 100 home runs to his already steroid-questionable total.
Bonds tied Henry Aaron’s home run record of 755 on Saturday night and will go for the new standard this week back at home in San Francisco.

As a student of baseball – and currently a mechanics consultant to a major league baseball team — I believe I have insight into the Bonds “achievement.” I have studied his swing countless times on video and examined the mechanical gear closely through photographs.

For years, sportswriters remarked that his massive “protective” gear – unequaled in all of baseball — permits Bonds to lean over the plate without fear of being hit by a pitch. Thus situated, Bonds can handle the outside pitch (where most pitchers live) unusually well. This is unfair advantage enough, but no longer controversial. However, it is only one of at least seven (largely unexplored) advantages conferred by the apparatus.

The other six:

1) The apparatus is hinged at the elbow. It is a literal “hitting machine” that allows Bonds to release his front arm on the same plane during every swing. It largely accounts for the seemingly magical consistency of every Bonds stroke.

2) The apparatus locks at the elbow when the lead arm is fully elongated because of a small flap at the top of the bottom section that fits into a groove in the bottom of the top section. The locked arm forms a rigid front arm fulcrum that allows extraordinary, maximally efficient explosion of the levers of Bonds’ wrists. Bonds hands are quicker than those of average hitters because of his mechanical “assistant.”

3) When Bonds swings, the weight of the apparatus helps to seal his inner upper arm to his torso at impact. Thus “connected,” he automatically hits the ball with the weight of his entire body – not just his arms – as average hitters (“extending”) tend to do.

4) Bonds has performed less well in Home Run Derbies than one might expect because he has no excuse to wear a “protector” facing a batting practice pitcher. As he tires, his front arm elbow tends to lift and he swings under the ball, producing towering pop flies or topspin liners that stay in the park. When the apparatus is worn, its weight keeps his elbow down and he drives the ball with backspin.

5) Bonds enjoys quicker access to the inside pitch than average hitters because his “assistant” – counter-intuitively – allows him to turn more rapidly. Everyone understands that skaters accelerate their spins by pulling their arms into their torsos, closer to their axes of rotation. When Bonds is confronted with an inside pitch, he spins like a skater because his upper front arm is “assistant”-sealed tightly against the side of his chest.

6) At impact, Bonds has additional mass (the weight of his “assistant”) not available to the average hitter. The combined weight of “assistant” and bat is probably equal to the weight of the lumber wielded by Babe Ruth but with more manageable weight distribution.

At the moment, Bonds’ apparatus enjoys “grandfathered” status. Similar devices are presently denied to average major leaguers, who must present evidence of injury before receiving an exemption.

Bonds has worn some sort of front arm protection since 1992. In ’94, a one-piece forearm guard was replaced by a jointed, two piece elbow model. In ‘95 it got bigger and a small “cap” on the elbow was replaced by a “flap” that overlapped the upper piece and locked the two pieces together when the arm was elongated. In ’96, the “apparatus” grew even larger and so did the “flap.”

It seems to have remained relatively the same until — interestingly— 2001, the year of his record 73 home runs, when an advanced model appeared made (apparently) of a new material. It had softer edges and a groove for the flap to slip into automatically at full arm elongation. More important, the upper half of the machine was sculpted to conform more comfortably to the contours of Bonds’ upper arm. Since 2001, the apparatus seems to have remained relatively unchanged.

Several years back, baseball was rightfully scandalized by the revelation that Sammy Sosa had “corked” his bat. The advantages conferred by the Bonds “hitting machine,” however, far exceed anything supplied by cork. Ultimately, it appears the Bonds “achievement” must be regarded as partly the product of “double duplicity” — steroidal and mechanical

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2056]

3 minutes ago, 66BUFF said:

1) The apparatus is hinged at the elbow. It is a literal “hitting machine” that allows Bonds to release his front arm on the same plane during every swing. It largely accounts for the seemingly magical consistency of every Bonds stroke.

 

yeah, that's the secret behind bonds' swing.  the fact that he has no give in his flesh such that when a hinge is placed on it, the swing that he had for 30 years and 6 mvps is suddenly fixed in a perfect plane.

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2056]

7 minutes ago, 66BUFF said:

5) Bonds enjoys quicker access to the inside pitch than average hitters because his “assistant” – counter-intuitively – allows him to turn more rapidly. Everyone understands that skaters accelerate their spins by pulling their arms into their torsos, closer to their axes of rotation. When Bonds is confronted with an inside pitch, he spins like a skater because his upper front arm is “assistant”-sealed tightly against the side of his chest.

By Michael Witte, Who Has Very Little Understanding of Physics

[n64ra 1075]

Since everyone values my opinion, I'd vote Pettitte in along with the biggest names - Bonds, Clemens, Shilling, Sosa.

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2056]

Seriously though. The argument is that adding weight to your arms allows you to more quickly swing. 

"Everyone understands that skaters accelerate their spins by pulling their arms into their torsos, and this analogy works with Bonds because skaters also suddenly grow a third arm to actually increase mass much like the increased mass due to his arm guard, which makes them speed up, because everyone understands you should deny the very idea of moment of inertia (I=Integral of (r^2)dm) and that adding mass any distance away from the axis of rotation will by definition increase the moment of inertia.  This makes Bonds spin like a skater, because a skater isn't just repositioning his mass closer to the axis of rotation, but adding a third arm and thereby increasing the total amount of mass closer to the axis of rotation.  I have a lot of valuable insight to provide today."

[Helobious 9477]

46 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Schilling not getting in for his political opinions is bullshit.  He is an easy yes for anyone with any sense.  Bonds in Clemens should be in.

Plenty of roiders are in.  Including two of my favorite Astros of all time.  Most everyone was doing them in the 90s.  And most everyone was doing untestable HGH for a period after they started testing for steroids.

He’s been very politically outspoken for years and still almost got the 75% of votes last year. He asked to be removed from the ballot for this year. Obviously it’s not up to the player’s discretion so he was still on it, but it’s the biggest reason why he saw an almost 20% drop in votes from last year to this year. 

[66BUFF 2544]

23 minutes ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

Seriously though. The argument is that adding weight to your arms allows you to more quickly swing. 

"Everyone understands that skaters accelerate their spins by pulling their arms into their torsos, and this analogy works with Bonds because skaters also suddenly grow a third arm to actually increase mass much like the increased mass due to his arm guard, which makes them speed up, because everyone understands you should deny the very idea of moment of inertia (I=Integral of (r^2)dm) and that adding mass any distance away from the axis of rotation will by definition increase the moment of inertia.  This makes Bonds spin like a skater, because a skater isn't just repositioning his mass closer to the axis of rotation, but adding a third arm and thereby increasing the total amount of mass closer to the axis of rotation.  I have a lot of valuable insight to provide today."

Calm down Barry.

[The Dog 43771]

It's almost as if aggressively working to alienate the very voter base responsible for putting you into the hall of fame has consequences. 

Yes, both Bonds and Clemens deserve to be in (as does Schilling) but holy crap stop being such insufferable assholes for five freaking minutes. It's really not that hard. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by The Dog

[Beau Vine 53965]

1 hour ago, Jshep34 said:

If writers truly wanted to go full character clause for election into the hall, bud Selig would have received 0 votes. He was commissioner during the ped era, it happened under his watch. He was ok with it cause it brought money into the game.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

The writers didn't vote for Selig, dummy.

[Beau Vine 53965]

1 hour ago, 66BUFF said:

Several years back, baseball was rightfully scandalized by the revelation that Sammy Sosa had “corked” his bat. The advantages conferred by the Bonds “hitting machine,” however, far exceed anything supplied by cork. 

If that were true, every fucking hitter in the league would be wearing those things.

[66BUFF 2544]

Just now, Beau Vine said:

If that were true, every fucking hitter in the league would be wearing those things.

They were banned and Bonds was grandfathered in.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 hour ago, Helobious said:

He’s been very politically outspoken for years and still almost got the 75% of votes last year. He asked to be removed from the ballot for this year. Obviously it’s not up to the player’s discretion so he was still on it, but it’s the biggest reason why he saw an almost 20% drop in votes from last year to this year. 

His political opinions are what stopped him from getting in previous years.  His WAR is right between Bob Gibson and Tom Glavine and 25 above Mariano Rivera.

[Beau Vine 53965]

8 minutes ago, 66BUFF said:

They were banned and Bonds was grandfathered in.

They weren't banned -- they were limited to max 10" and required to be covered with nylon.  

[Beau Vine 53965]

https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/6557/barry-bonds-brace-orthotic-verisimilitude/

Quote

The brace that Bonds wears was first constructed in 1992. Bonds needed a brace to protect his arm after surgery, and Silva’s work with athletes was already well-known. Each year, Bonds comes into Silva’s workplace and has a mold made of his arm, which allows Silva to custom-build the brace. Silva explains that “it’s a pretty labor-intensive. I take a negative cast of the arm. Each year, I make a cast of Barry’s arm, a plaster mold. I cut the mold off, put a lead pipe down the center for strength, then strip off the negative cast, making a positive cast or a model to work with. I then sculpt it with plaster to build out areas we don’t want pressure applied to, and then choose the materials specific to the sport so they can function at the highest level.” The completely custom brace, which Silva estimates weighs between four and six ounces, is designed to “not be noticed” by the athlete. The straps are elastic and allow the arm to move within the brace during the swing, protecting the arm without restricting motion.

It’s the molds that bring forth the most interesting fact regarding Bonds since Game of Shadows was published. Silva states that because of the custom nature of the work, he’s been asked to make casts of Bonds each year. In the first couple of years, he went through the entire process, but due to his workload, he started checking Bonds with precision calipers each subsequent year. “If I made the same brace every year for 12 or more years,” Silva said, “it was because there was no size change in Barry’s arms.”

You read that correctly–the man who not only builds Bonds’ brace, but who has taken precision measurements of his arm since 1992, has not seen any increase in the size of Bonds’ arm. Point blank, Silva said “there’s been no significant change in the size of his arms.”

 

[Elmer_Fudd 22084]

9 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

His political opinions are what stopped him from getting in previous years.  His WAR is right between Bob Gibson and Tom Glavine and 25 above Mariano Rivera.

Schilling is one of four pitchers to strike out 300 batters in a season three times since 1900.  The other three?  Randy Johnson, Sandy Koufax, and Nolan Ryan.

Also saw he had one season with fewer walks than games started.

He's also right at the top (maybe at the top?)  for strikeout-to-walk ratio.  He absolutely should be in the HOF.

[dcar00 14023]

1 hour ago, 66BUFF said:

I have a bigger issue with his hinged arm guard

By Michael Witte

NEW YORK (Commentary) Beyond his alleged steroid use, Barry Bonds is guilty of the use of something that confers extraordinarily unfair mechanical advantage: the “armor” that he wears on his right elbow. Amid the press frenzy over Bonds’ unnatural bulk, the true role of the object on his right arm has simply gone unnoticed.

This is unfortunate, because by my estimate, Bonds’ front arm “armor” may have contributed no fewer than 75 to 100 home runs to his already steroid-questionable total.
Bonds tied Henry Aaron’s home run record of 755 on Saturday night and will go for the new standard this week back at home in San Francisco.

As a student of baseball – and currently a mechanics consultant to a major league baseball team — I believe I have insight into the Bonds “achievement.” I have studied his swing countless times on video and examined the mechanical gear closely through photographs.

For years, sportswriters remarked that his massive “protective” gear – unequaled in all of baseball — permits Bonds to lean over the plate without fear of being hit by a pitch. Thus situated, Bonds can handle the outside pitch (where most pitchers live) unusually well. This is unfair advantage enough, but no longer controversial. However, it is only one of at least seven (largely unexplored) advantages conferred by the apparatus.

The other six:

1) The apparatus is hinged at the elbow. It is a literal “hitting machine” that allows Bonds to release his front arm on the same plane during every swing. It largely accounts for the seemingly magical consistency of every Bonds stroke.

2) The apparatus locks at the elbow when the lead arm is fully elongated because of a small flap at the top of the bottom section that fits into a groove in the bottom of the top section. The locked arm forms a rigid front arm fulcrum that allows extraordinary, maximally efficient explosion of the levers of Bonds’ wrists. Bonds hands are quicker than those of average hitters because of his mechanical “assistant.”

3) When Bonds swings, the weight of the apparatus helps to seal his inner upper arm to his torso at impact. Thus “connected,” he automatically hits the ball with the weight of his entire body – not just his arms – as average hitters (“extending”) tend to do.

4) Bonds has performed less well in Home Run Derbies than one might expect because he has no excuse to wear a “protector” facing a batting practice pitcher. As he tires, his front arm elbow tends to lift and he swings under the ball, producing towering pop flies or topspin liners that stay in the park. When the apparatus is worn, its weight keeps his elbow down and he drives the ball with backspin.

5) Bonds enjoys quicker access to the inside pitch than average hitters because his “assistant” – counter-intuitively – allows him to turn more rapidly. Everyone understands that skaters accelerate their spins by pulling their arms into their torsos, closer to their axes of rotation. When Bonds is confronted with an inside pitch, he spins like a skater because his upper front arm is “assistant”-sealed tightly against the side of his chest.

6) At impact, Bonds has additional mass (the weight of his “assistant”) not available to the average hitter. The combined weight of “assistant” and bat is probably equal to the weight of the lumber wielded by Babe Ruth but with more manageable weight distribution.

At the moment, Bonds’ apparatus enjoys “grandfathered” status. Similar devices are presently denied to average major leaguers, who must present evidence of injury before receiving an exemption.

Bonds has worn some sort of front arm protection since 1992. In ’94, a one-piece forearm guard was replaced by a jointed, two piece elbow model. In ‘95 it got bigger and a small “cap” on the elbow was replaced by a “flap” that overlapped the upper piece and locked the two pieces together when the arm was elongated. In ’96, the “apparatus” grew even larger and so did the “flap.”

It seems to have remained relatively the same until — interestingly— 2001, the year of his record 73 home runs, when an advanced model appeared made (apparently) of a new material. It had softer edges and a groove for the flap to slip into automatically at full arm elongation. More important, the upper half of the machine was sculpted to conform more comfortably to the contours of Bonds’ upper arm. Since 2001, the apparatus seems to have remained relatively unchanged.

Several years back, baseball was rightfully scandalized by the revelation that Sammy Sosa had “corked” his bat. The advantages conferred by the Bonds “hitting machine,” however, far exceed anything supplied by cork. Ultimately, it appears the Bonds “achievement” must be regarded as partly the product of “double duplicity” — steroidal and mechanical

thats a lot words for Bonds has a ridiculous quick stroke and moved up on the plate  because he wasn't afraid of getting hit in the arm and missing AB's. he shrunk the zone because he could turn on a pitch like no one else and therefore can wait longer as well as generate more bat speed.   everyone could have worn one of those.

the roids turned his doubles into home runs. 

[66BUFF 2544]

5 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

They weren't banned -- they were limited to max 10" and required to be covered with nylon.  

They banned the metal hinge.

[Guest Lobo]

Howie came unhinged?  

 

 

[Beau Vine 53965]

26 minutes ago, 66BUFF said:

They banned the metal hinge.

Nope -- http://www.espn.com/mlb/news/2002/0314/1351277.html

[dcar00 14023]

there are plenty of things to say helped Barry Bonds hit tons of home runs without the conspiracy theory that a metal hinge is a hitting machine.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

17 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Howie came unhinged?  

No! Howie was a rock. The best tailgunner in the outfit. Buddy came unglued.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

All I know is that Barry Bonds is one of the top 5-10 baseball players of all time.  As is Roger Clemens.

[Guest Lobo]

Yes, yes they are.  

I'm glad Ortiz got in.  I've always liked him, I realize many don't.  Schilling is still a head-scratcher to me.  

Well on to the festive 2023 debate.  Huston Street's first on the ballot.  Not that he'll get in, but I hope he gets some respect and sticks on the ballot for awhile.  

I hope Rolen and Vizquel finally get their call.  Curious to see what happens with Beltran's first time on the ballot. 

[66BUFF 2544]

7 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Nope -- http://www.espn.com/mlb/news/2002/0314/1351277.html

Show me any current player wearing something like this.

[Beau Vine 53965]

54 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Yes, yes they are.  

I'm glad Ortiz got in.  I've always liked him, I realize many don't.  Schilling is still a head-scratcher to me.  

Well on to the festive 2023 debate.  Huston Street's first on the ballot.  Not that he'll get in, but I hope he gets some respect and sticks on the ballot for awhile.  

I hope Rolen and Vizquel finally get their call.  Curious to see what happens with Beltran's first time on the ballot. 

Street has about as much chance of getting 5% of the vote as Omar has of getting 75%.

[alincoln 2364]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

All I know is that Barry Bonds is one of the top 5-10 baseball players of all time.  As is Roger Clemens.

And arguably the best pitcher and player since integration.  

[Guest]

'Welcome to the Baseball Hall of Fame, where we showcase the best that have ever played the game.'

'Oh cool, can you show me the career hits leader?'

'That's complicated.'

'What about the all-time home run leader?'

'About that --'

'Guy with the most Cy Youngs?'

'Security.'

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

The Baseball Hall of Guys Who the Sportswriters Deem Worthy. 

[dcar00 14023]

1 hour ago, 66BUFF said:

Show me any current player wearing something like this.

is the motor, spring and gear hidden under the straps?  maybe it is pneumatic and there is a tube running from his helmet to his elbow.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

7 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

is the motor, spring and gear hidden under the straps?  maybe it is pneumatic and there is a tube running from his helmet to his elbow.

It's a nuclear power plant. 

[formermav43 4599]

19 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

Yeah, Bonds was a HOFer if he retired after the ‘98 season, before he juiced. Dude juiced just to show how much better he was than the juicers.   And he was 3 heads and 2 shoulders better than them.   He’s one of the 5 best ball players to ever play the game, and he’s not in the hall because a bunch slapdicks that don’t play and don’t have cushy desk jobs anymore (because their bankrupt industry can’t pay them like they used to) want to play coy with other people’s livelihoods.    Such a shitshow 

Coincidentally equivalent to 1 juiced Barry Bonds head.

[Trey3216 15325]

7 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

Coincidentally equivalent to 1 juiced Barry Bonds head.

Fair.   He was still better than anyone in the game at the point he started.    

[Jshep34 2303]

The writers didn't vote for Selig, dummy.

Correct but they were complacent in not ever saying a word about what was going on during ped era

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Beau Vine 53965]

Correct but they were complacent in not ever saying a word about what was going on during ped era

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Let me know when you've sunk your goal posts into concrete on this.

[Dutchrudder 11103]

It's the "Hall of Fame" not the "Hall of Infamy," they fucked around, and now they get to find out.   

 

[WBT 20397]

Except for Ortiz