Mass Shootings

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,515]

What can or should be done?  Do we just accept it as part of a free society?  Do we force everyone to walk thru a metal detector when entering a school/theatre/hotel/nightclub/whatever?  

Personally I'm for putting everything on the table for discussion because it's unfair for kids (or anyone) to be unsure if they will be the victims of the next shooting.    That doesn't mean we need a strict gun ban or control but I can't stand it when someone refuses to even calmly discuss it.  And that goes with both sides. 

[sugar 100]

Step 1: the NRA should be sued into bankruptcy, if not criminally charged.

Step 2: ban all assault weapons and assault kits

Step 3: NO GUNS ON ANY CAMPUS

That's a very good start.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

4 minutes ago, sugar said:

Step 1: the NRA should be sued into bankruptcy, if not criminally charged.

Step 2: ban all assault weapons and assault kits

Step 3: NO GUNS ON ANY CAMPUS

That's a very good start.

How's this one working out for you so far ? You figuring the wack jobs are going to heed this rule ?

[Anwar Namtut 344]

6 minutes ago, sugar said:

Step 1: the NRA should be sued into bankruptcy, if not criminally charged.

Step 2: ban all assault weapons and assault kits

Step 3: NO GUNS ON ANY CAMPUS

That's a very good start.

Completely ignores OP.

[David Dennison 18,938]

Vote for politicians who favor gun control laws. Vote against anyone the NRA supports.

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,515]

3 minutes ago, Anwar Namtut said:

Completely ignores OP.

Yeah.  It's an emotional issue so I don't fault someone for initially running in a direction.  But we need to continue to find some method to deal with these shootings.  My fear is that Sante Fe won't do much but rather add to the death count.

[Loch Ness Monster 3,533]

Stop making the shooters famous. How do you do that with a free press though. It gets lots of ratings and eyeballs. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,585]

How about we focus on areas of agreement. Since both sides generally agree mental health plays a role in these mass shootings, how about we all pull together and support a comprehensive national healthcare system that increases access to mental healthcare services instead of relying on the mentally ill to take personal responsibility for their mental health?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ohhh.....

[Hank Scorpio 17,729]

 

 

[ndawg 1,242]

A question worth answering, IMO: is the frequency and severity of mass shootings in this country an aberration relative to other countries?

If it is, then we can at least set out to uncover why we have a problem that other countries don't. I think the answer is very clearly "yes," but I'd rather hear from folks who think our mass shootings are more or less "normal."

[Royalfan5 2,354]

The culture of treating guns as some sort of great equalizer for perceived slights from society at large will have to change. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,585]

4 minutes ago, ndawg said:

A question worth answering, IMO: is the frequency and severity of mass shootings in this country an aberration relative to other countries?

If it is, then we can at least set out to uncover why we have a problem that other countries don't. I think the answer is very clearly "yes," but I'd rather hear from folks who think our mass shootings are more or less "normal."

Unfortunately, there's a certain lobbying organization that has successfully stymied the federal government from actually studying what seems to be a uniquely American problem. 

[David Dennison 18,938]

9 minutes ago, ndawg said:

A question worth answering, IMO: is the frequency and severity of mass shootings in this country an aberration relative to other countries?

If it is, then we can at least set out to uncover why we have a problem that other countries don't. I think the answer is very clearly "yes," but I'd rather hear from folks who think our mass shootings are more or less "normal."

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

2 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Unfortunately, there's a certain lobbying organization that has successfully stymied the federal government from actually studying what seems to be a uniquely American problem. 

And that's fucked up beyond belief if true.

Easy accessibility to guns is the answer though, so I just saved the taxpayers 10's of $$$ millions in the cost of a study to verify what is a known fact.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Vote for politicians who favor gun control laws. Vote against anyone the NRA supports.

 

Nah, won’t do that. Though I wonder when the GOP will start to criticize the NRA, or at least decouple from it. It’s past time. 

[Neonmoon 38,129]

24 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

What can or should be done?  Do we just accept it as part of a free society?  Do we force everyone to walk thru a metal detector when entering a school/theatre/hotel/nightclub/whatever?  

 

To answer the OP

1. What can be done? ----  Anything really. It's up to the will of the people. If you are asking what can be done considering the large "don't take my guns" part of the population right now and the NRA lobby? Probably not a lot. Change will take time for this issue. Eventually the kids growing up in this climate will be in control and the "don't take my guns' majority will be dead. Then more radical change will occur. Again, 50 years down the line stuff. 

2. What shold be done? ---- If you think kids getting murdered every week at school is just " a part of free society", then those people won't want anything done. But I do not think gun violence should be a part of free society. I think guns need to be highly regulated. Raise the age of a person to get a gun, have to get a license, and you have to take safety classes and education classes to get a license. That license must be renewed yearly and you must have continuing education credits. At the flip side, any person caught with a gun without a license should face severe consequences. 

3. Do we force everyone to walk through a metal detector when entering a school/theatre/hotel/nightclub/whatever?" ---- I think this might become a voluntary practice but I'm all for protecting schools. Don't think you can force a private business if they want to not have one. Up to customer to choose between the hazzel of the metal detector bar or the non metal detector bar. 

Quote

Personally I'm for putting everything on the table for discussion because it's unfair for kids (or anyone) to be unsure if they will be the victims of the next shooting.    That doesn't mean we need a strict gun ban or control but I can't stand it when someone refuses to even calmly discuss it.  And that goes with both sides.

I am also for putting everything on the table. At the same time, I recognize change just isn't likely right now because 1. Too many gun advocates are still alive, and as I previously states, I believe the generation growing up may have a different perception of gun rights (maybe they won't, I don't know, just a theory) 2. R's control WH & congress 3. NRA lobby. However I will say that even staunch gun advocates are realizing what a detriment the NRA is to their 2nd amendment rights. 

 

['stache 21,825]

T’s and P’s.

[sugar 100]

20 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

How about we focus on areas of agreement. Since both sides generally agree mental health plays a role in these mass shootings, how about we all pull together and support a comprehensive national healthcare system that increases access to mental healthcare services instead of relying on the mentally ill to take personal responsibility for their mental health?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ohhh.....

Completely agree.

[jimmyjazz 45,997]

30 minutes ago, Anwar Namtut said:

Completely ignores OP.

WTF does that mean?  OP asked "what can we do?"  He responded.  Thanks for helping the conversation along.

[sugar 100]

But you can't just blame "the mentally ill".

Killing a bunch of people is itself mental illness. So is criminal pathology. So is, IMO, owning an arsenal and indulging in paranoid revolutionary claptrap.

[sugar 100]

I think this redirection on mental health is a way of dividing things as good guy/bad guy "with a gun".

"With a gun" is what kills the other people. Not the "with a bipolar disorder".

Everybody has some form of mental issue anyway.

[jimmyjazz 45,997]

It's not seen by researchers as a mental health issue.  Not that I don't think we need more effective policy regarding mental health, but it might not change the frequency or severity of these events.

[ndawg 1,242]

17 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Unfortunately, there's a certain lobbying organization that has successfully stymied the federal government from actually studying what seems to be a uniquely American problem. 

Right. I've just never seen the 2nd amendment hard liners really offer any kind of explanation for this.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's not seen by researchers as a mental health issue.  Not that I don't think we need more effective policy regarding mental health, but it might not change the frequency or severity of these events.

Anyone know what % of mass shooters have had a history of mental health issues or multiple run ins with the law ?

[David Dennison 18,938]

2 minutes ago, ndawg said:

Right. I've just never seen the 2nd amendment hard liners really offer any kind of explanation for this.

Republican politicians are scared to death of getting primaried by the NRA, so they fall in line.

[shnsajax 3,591]

This is the shit they spew

 

 

[Fozzz 152]

The brilliant conservative intellectual Jordan Peterson believes the answer is "enforced" monogamy.  

Quote

Recently, a young man named Alek Minassian drove through Toronto trying to kill people with his van. Ten were killed, and he has been charged with first-degree murder for their deaths, and with attempted murder for 16 people who were injured. Mr. Minassian declared himself to be part of a misogynist group whose members call themselves incels. The term is short for “involuntary celibates,” though the group has evolved into a male supremacist movement made up of people — some celibate, some not — who believe that women should be treated as sexual objects with few rights. Some believe in forced “sexual redistribution,” in which a governing body would intervene in women’s lives to force them into sexual relationships.

Violent attacks are what happens when men do not have partners, Mr. Peterson says, and society needs to work to make sure those men are married.

“He was angry at God because women were rejecting him,” Mr. Peterson says of the Toronto killer. “The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/style/jordan-peterson-12-rules-for-life.html

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1,258]

Quote

What can or should be done?

Thoughts and prayers?

Edited May 18, 2018 by TheRealRonWeaver?

[Bill Brasky 1,449]

The media should never publish the name or mugshot of the shooter 

[jimmyjazz 45,997]

5 minutes ago, Bill Brasky said:

The media should never publish the name or mugshot of the shooter 

This is not the problem.

[HtownHorn 14,750]

1 hour ago, sugar said:

Step 1: the NRA should be sued into bankruptcy, if not criminally charged.

Step 2: ban all assault weapons and assault kits

Step 3: NO GUNS ON ANY CAMPUS

That's a very good start.

It only took 1 post to end the discussion. Bravo sir, fine job.

[HtownHorn 14,750]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

This is not the problem.

It sure as shit part of it.

[thrillhammer 684]

funny how even trump was for gun restrictions.   send me a bill and i'll sign it, is what he said.  that was until the nra sat him down and chewed his ass out.  he backed down real quick after that and has been all guns all the time ever since.

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2,679]

20 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Anyone know what % of mass shooters have had a history of mental health issues or multiple run ins with the law ?

It is well-established that the U.S. does not have a greater incidence of mental illness per capita than other countries.  That is not the reason for having so much more gun violence here. 

[Fozzz 152]

Even if the media did that, his face would still be all over social media anyway, which is a lot more meaningful for them than the fucking news.

[HtownHorn 14,750]

57 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Vote for politicians who favor gun control laws. Vote against anyone the NRA supports.

 

How's that working in Chicago? You do realize the NRA has over 5M members, but please make national elections about the 2nd amendment. The Dems should force a litmus test on their candidates to take on a platform of full 2A repeal or they get no campaign money.

[In10se 175]

Ironically, the answer is guns. Gun down the leadership of the NRA, and gun down all politicians who support/receive support from the NRA. 

That starts happening in masse and laws will change really quickly. They're all about guns that they can use to kill people. Not when guns are used to kill them. 

[HtownHorn 14,750]

2 minutes ago, In10se said:

Ironically, the answer is guns. Gun down the leadership of the NRA, and gun down all politicians who support/receive support from the NRA. 

That starts happening in masse and laws will change really quickly. They're all about guns that they can use to kill people. Not when guns are used to kill them. 

This is hilariously stupid.

[David Dennison 18,938]

5 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

How's that working in Chicago? You do realize the NRA has over 5M members, but please make national elections about the 2nd amendment. The Dems should force a litmus test on their candidates to take on a platform of full 2A repeal or they get no campaign money.

Fine with me. I favor repealing the Second Amendment.

[thrillhammer 684]

1 minute ago, In10se said:

Ironically, the answer is guns. Gun down the leadership of the NRA, and gun down all politicians who support/receive support from the NRA. 

That starts happening in masse and laws will change really quickly. They're all about guns that they can use to kill people. Not when guns are used to kill them. 

sadly i dont think the nra will let up until someone goes postal inside the nra.  some bereaved parent is going to do it one day, at a convention, meeting, headquarters, etc.

[Helobious 9,463]

Was waiting for a “but Chicago” to come up. Never mind that NY & LA, 2 larger cities also with very high numbers of poor people & people of color, and also run by liberals, don’t have nearly the murder problem Chicago does. 

[In10se 175]

Just now, HtownHorn said:

This is hilariously stupid.

I didnt say its the best or most beneficial for the country. That answer would be the citizenry educating themselves and stop falling for fear mongering and propoganda then supporting and electing officials who will make the change. Unfortunately, America is far last that being any kind of a realistic possibility. 

Therefore, the only other practical way to enact change is through violence. The history of mankind has shown this over and over again. It may not lead to good things but it will cause change. 

[6th Street 6,434]

7 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Was waiting for a “but Chicago” to come up. Never mind that NY & LA, 2 larger cities also with very high numbers of poor people & people of color, and also run by liberals, don’t have nearly the murder problem Chicago does. 

Well that and Indiana is only 25 minutes away from Chicago, and they have zero gun laws. 

[Hornius Emeritus 12,474]

9 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

This is hilariously stupid.

Not so hilariously stupid: the NRA did not allow guns to be brought into its convention last month. They had bag inspections, metal detectors, and pat downs.

 

[David Dennison 18,938]

3 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Well that and Indiana is only 25 minutes away from Chicago, and they have zero gun laws. 

This is a very important fact to remember.

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2,679]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-stricter-a-states-gun-laws-the-fewer-children-die-from-guns-study-finds/ar-AAwU2VB

 

Incidentally, while Chicago is subject to a lot of gun laws, the NYPD chief has said they aren't enforced consistently or efficiently. 

[HtownHorn 14,750]

10 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Not so hilariously stupid: the NRA did not allow guns to be brought into its convention last month. They had bag inspections, metal detectors, and pat downs.

 

You mean the Secret Service rule that the NRA abided by, amazingly NRA members follow laws and rules set in place. Criminals do not, but by all means lets take away a constituted right from millions, so that criminals will be the only ones with guns.

[deadshank 24,653]

1 hour ago, sugar said:

But you can't just blame "the mentally ill".

Killing a bunch of people is itself mental illness. So is criminal pathology. So is, IMO, owning an arsenal and indulging in paranoid revolutionary claptrap.

So is suggesting "someone should go shoot up the NRA."

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,585]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And that's fucked up beyond belief if true.

Easy accessibility to guns is the answer though, so I just saved the taxpayers 10's of $$$ millions in the cost of a study to verify what is a known fact.

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/05/599773911/how-the-nra-worked-to-stifle-gun-violence-research

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

33 minutes ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

It is well-established that the U.S. does not have a greater incidence of mental illness per capita than other countries.  That is not the reason for having so much more gun violence here. 

I didn't ask if we had more, I asked what % of shooters had mental health issues.