Mass Shootings

[fattyflattie 4636]

9 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Personally, I would like to see a reduction in the effectiveness as well as frequency of mass shootings.   I believe the former can be addressed by limiting magazine capacity and perhaps firing rate.  Whether that solution reduces the frequency of events, I don't know.

I absolutely support longer waiting periods, better reporting, and elimination of private sale loopholes.  While it appears that the statistics don't actually point to "mental illness" as a significant correlating factor with these events, I would sure like to see this country address mental health in a more positive manner.

I agree with all of this. Except maybe the firing rate? But anyhow, good post. 

[Brisketexan 104215]

I don’t think I’ve seen you weigh in on securing schools. In light of this post: what say you?

In short: reasonable measures. For example, I absolutely favor having an armed school resource officer. That saved lives in Santa Fe and Chicago recently.

I favor limited entry points. You have to deal with the existing architecture, but many schools have done this.

I favor hardening individual classrooms. Lock the door when class starts, and the doors should be of a character that they can’t be breached easily. If shooting starts, you should be safe behind a locked door.

I generally oppose metal detectors and a TSA type entry setup because the collective cost is outrageous, and the logistics are terrible. Imagine walking up to the airport security line with 1,000 people in front of you, and we have to get them all in and to class in 20 minutes. No way.

[Eskimohorn 5593]

again, we have a problem with mentally unstable people having much to easy access to guns. thems the words. stick to that. 
we need measures to:
- make gun ownership more of a responsibility
- make mental health a national crisis (IMO it is)
talking about the 2nd amendment is hot air, regardless of what side your hot air comes from.
if the first above treads on your liberty then so be it. your calcs are wrong and IMO you are failing to account for the mental anguish and anxiety this problem is causing all of our society
 

The 2nd amendment was designed to ensure that able-bodied men could secure their homes, as part of a well-regulated militia, without being wholly dependent on a central government. The intent was defense against natives, armed factions and foreign invaders. In turn, the Constitution gives the Feds the right to call upon those militias in case of “armed insurrections” and war.

The 2nd amendment is all about responsibility and making communities safer. If someone is not trained properly, in their right mind and health, and willing to lay their life on the line for their neighbors, they have no constitutional right to arms.

[atomheartbevo 89295]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

I generally oppose metal detectors and a TSA type entry setup because the collective cost is outrageous, and the logistics are terrible. Imagine walking up to the airport security line with 1,000 people in front of you, and we have to get them all in and to class in 20 minutes. No way.

That and it creates an extremely attractive chokepoint for a would-be killer.

The better doors on the classroom thing should be a given.  It's like locking cockpit doors after 9/11 (or pre-9/11 if you were El Al).

[Helobious 9459]

Serious question... did any of you go to a high school that DIDN'T have an armed district officer on campus? Both my middle and high school each had 2 armed officers. When I think about it I've really never heard of a high school not having at least one. Shit, there was even one at Columbine that briefly exchanged fire with Harris. I get confused when people talk about putting armed security at every campus, because I think that's already a thing. 

[XYZ 2154]

The Florida school had a cop, and that didn’t do any good.

[Dutchrudder 11082]

The Florida school had a cop, and that didn’t do any good.

Well it probably would have helped if he went into the school to find and stop the shooter, instead of being a pussy sitting outside listening to the gunfire like a coward.

[Bullneck 18920]

On 5/18/2018 at 12:57 PM, Onboard 2.0 said:

How's this one working out for you so far ? You figuring the wack jobs are going to heed this rule ?

So, anytime we don't think a whack job will follow the rules we just don't have rules?  Got it.

[TDunk 590]

Why not have an extensive background check that may take over month?  And ask one sincere question:  "Why do you want to purchase this gun?" 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 hours ago, Bullneck said:

So, anytime we don't think a whack job will follow the rules we just don't have rules?  Got it.

Yes combative statement for the sake of being combative.  Please read the guys rule again, and tell me how practical the rule is, and how it's going to actually do jack shit . Then come back and try to act like an adult instead of the child you often do when replying to my posts.

[Aqua Buddha 14463]

7 hours ago, TDunk said:

Why not have an extensive background check that may take over month?  And ask one sincere question:  "Why do you want to purchase this gun?" 

Make it like TSA Pre Check.  Have it where you can buy "normal" guns (however that's defined) any time under the current system.  However, have a system like TSA Pre Check where there's an extensive background check combined with an in person interview and if you're Pre-Check, it's valid for five years or so and you can buy any gun you want anytime.  A lot of these recent shooters are walking red flags yet they're buying AR-15's anytime they want.  We've literally had people on no fly lists and Secret Service watch lists with AR-15's.

[bernorange 8342]

In the last couple of weeks, I've read several reports of people arrested for making terroristic threats.  One including a kid in junior high and one including a disgruntled ex-HEB employee.  All were arrested and face Felony charges after people reported them to police.  Additionally, a couple of kids were apprehended on school grounds in possession of firearms.  Idiocy abounds.

Quote

A Katy man was arrested last week after he allegedly threatened "mass murder" at the H-E-B store from which he was previously fired, the Friendswood Police Department reports.

Jordon Eric Marsh, 25, remains in the Galveston County Jail on a charge of making a terrorist threat.

After Marsh was fired from the grocery store at 701 W. Parkwood Avenue in Friendswood, he allegedly posted a series of threats on Facebook on May 13, "threatening mass murder, talking about a hit list and promising bloodshed," the police department stated in its weekly blotter.

Police said the threats specifically mentioned the Friendswood store.

...

https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/friendswood/news/article/Friendswood-H-E-B-mass-murder-threat-12932034.php

Quote

...

A Friendswood Junior High eighth grader was taken into custody at 2:26 p.m. on May 21 and charged with making a Terroristic Threat, a third degree felony.

Peers of the suspect alerted the school resource officer about social media threats posted by the suspect. Following an investigation, the school resource officer took the suspect into custody.

...

https://mypearlandnews.com/2018/05/21/friendswood-jr-high-8th-grader-arrested-and-charged-with-making-a-terroristic-threat/

Quote

Three days after 10 people were shot and killed and 13 others injured at Santa Fe High School, five students were arrested on Monday in the Houston area for bringing weapons to school or making threats.

...

https://www.khou.com/article/news/crime/five-houston-area-students-arrested-on-monday-for-guns-threats/285-556755483

[Pescado_Rojo 19315]

25 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Make it like TSA Pre Check.  Have it where you can buy "normal" guns (however that's defined) any time under the current system.  However, have a system like TSA Pre Check where there's an extensive background check combined with an in person interview and if you're Pre-Check, it's valid for five years or so and you can buy any gun you want anytime.  A lot of these recent shooters are walking red flags yet they're buying AR-15's anytime they want.  We've literally had people on no fly lists and Secret Service watch lists with AR-15's.

Just roll it up into the concealed carry license. Make the CCL classes and testing standardized for all 50 states, and require a person that wants to own a "modern sporting rifle" to be a CCL holder.  

[Eskimohorn 5593]

Just roll it up into the concealed carry license. Make the CCL classes and testing standardized for all 50 states, and require a person that wants to own a "modern sporting rifle" to be a CCL holder.  

What you failed to realize is that this would slow the purchasing process and cut into the profits of businesses.

[Aqua Buddha 14463]

8 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

 

What you failed to realize is that this would slow the purchasing process and cut into the profits of businesses.

 

So what?  Why does that matter?

[XYZ 2154]

Time to re-write the second amendment?

[BabaYaga 15189]

1 minute ago, XYZ said:

Time to re-write the second amendment?

And there it is

[Lurch 5916]

It’s been here since the first page.

And, seconded.

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

 

What you failed to realize is that this would slow the purchasing process and cut into the profits of businesses.

 

When a company likes Remington is facing bankruptcy in this guns-for-all, pro-2nd amendment environment, how are gun companies going to survive a more regulated life?

[SmokeyBear1861 107]

https://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/27698

Middle school in Indiana

Thinking it's a false alarm.

[Chuckie Finster 22571]

23 minutes ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

When a company likes Remington is facing bankruptcy in this guns-for-all, pro-2nd amendment environment, how are gun companies going to survive a more regulated life?

After killing kids for decades, it would be ironic if the kids inspired changes that killed the gun companies.

[Buzzrock 14799]

In short: reasonable measures. For example, I absolutely favor having an armed school resource officer. That saved lives in Santa Fe and Chicago recently.

I favor limited entry points. You have to deal with the existing architecture, but many schools have done this.

I favor hardening individual classrooms. Lock the door when class starts, and the doors should be of a character that they can’t be breached easily. If shooting starts, you should be safe behind a locked door.

I generally oppose metal detectors and a TSA type entry setup because the collective cost is outrageous, and the logistics are terrible. Imagine walking up to the airport security line with 1,000 people in front of you, and we have to get them all in and to class in 20 minutes. No way.

TSA-like measures would be an issue, but we get people into concert and sporting events pretty efficiently.

I don’t think we necessarily need metal detectors for the kids. Just key cards or something. How many mass shooters have been currently-enrolled students?

[Buzzrock 14799]

Well it probably would have helped if he went into the school to find and stop the shooter, instead of being a pussy sitting outside listening to the gunfire like a coward.

Yeah Barney Fife surfing porn on his phone in his prowler in the parking lot is not what I’m envisioning.

[jimmyjazz 45370]

38 minutes ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

When a company likes Remington is facing bankruptcy in this guns-for-all, pro-2nd amendment environment, how are gun companies going to survive a more regulated life?

More to the point, who cares?

[Brisketexan 104215]

1 minute ago, Buzzrock said:

 

TSA-like measures would be an issue, but we get people into concert and sporting events pretty efficiently.

I don’t think we necessarily need metal detectors for the kids. Just key cards or something. How many mass shooters have been currently-enrolled students?

 

Actually, we don't get them in "pretty efficiently."  There are dozens of entry points.  People enter over the course of sometimes hours, as opposed to a single 15-20 minute period before school.

1500 people at a single entry point.  Screen them and their bag for weapons and get them through before class starts.  In order to make that work, you'd need surely, what, 8-10 individual "lines" and scanners?  Those each need to be manned, so let's say 16 people who are trained to (1) get people through an X-ray machine, and if they fail, pat them down, and (2) review an xray of bags to catch weapons.  Not to mention the expensive machinery to do that, times 8-10. 

I'm not saying it's not POSSIBLE -- anything is possible.  Give me $500 billion, and I can set up that system probably nationwide.  You got $500 billion laying around?  I mean, uh, I'd pay for it, but, man, I totally left my wallet at home today.

[SmokeyBear1861 107]

I agree with taking some preventive measures at the school, but the root cause is the kid or young adult. 

Long story short, if you want to prevent school shootings, you have to look into what is causing them. The disassociation disorder is caused when the social outcasts are fed drugs to solve their problems. Combine this with what activities replace their social activity... violent video games and movies. They have a chemical imbalance caused by being "left out" of normal social activity at school, instead of fixing that by teaching them ways to make friends and giving them things to do in the real world, they feed them drugs. Fucked up to try and solve mental problems with drugs instead of therapy and group activity. More fucked up to leave them alone to play violent video games with the drugs in their system, it trains them to disassociate from themselves and others even worse. 

https://www.cchrint.org/pdfs/violence-report.pdf

[Eskimohorn 5593]

So what?  Why does that matter?

It doesn’t. “what you fail to realize” is a prompt for sarcasm. As in “what you fail to realize is that Obama wore a tan suit” as another way of mocking “but Obama”

[BabaYaga 15189]

52 minutes ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

When a company likes Remington is facing bankruptcy in this guns-for-all, pro-2nd amendment environment, how are gun companies going to survive a more regulated life?

Stop.  Remington is facing BK because they are over-leveraged and bloated to the tune of roughly $700M - engendered through bad business decisions.  Not an under-regulated market.  They rested too long on the laurels of their venerated 700 system, failed to capitalize on the growing AR market, and failed miserably on their entry into the 1911 market.  Their shotguns are "ok".  Not even close to their Benelli/Beretta/Weatherby lines and up and coming CZ and other manufacturers.  Their rifle line is antiquated and performance inconsistent.  As an entry gun, you'd look at Ruger Ranch, Mossberg, or Savage Axis long before them.  Mid-tier, you have Tikka/Sako, Weatherby, Howa, Browning Hells Canyon, and a slue of others that simply perform better.  And at the high-end, you have droves upon droves of custom makers.  If anything, Remington would beg for tighter regulations as all large companies desire - to choke out smaller, more nimble, and faster to adapt firms that are causing them to suffer so much and eroding their market share. 

If anything, you can also look at Trump.  When he was elected, Rem's sales plummeted by more than 27% as fear of gun restrictions fell.  Then you layer on what Cerebus has done, divestments, and the mentioned borrowing.  They are fuked.  If they weather this, they will look nothing like the firm they are today.

[jimmyjazz 45370]

17 minutes ago, SmokeyBear1861 said:

I agree with taking some preventive measures at the school, but the root cause is the kid or young adult. 

Long story short, if you want to prevent school shootings, you have to look into what is causing them. The disassociation disorder is caused when the social outcasts are fed drugs to solve their problems. Combine this with what activities replace their social activity... violent video games and movies. They have a chemical imbalance caused by being "left out" of normal social activity at school, instead of fixing that by teaching them ways to make friends and giving them things to do in the real world, they feed them drugs. Fucked up to try and solve mental problems with drugs instead of therapy and group activity. More fucked up to leave them alone to play violent video games with the drugs in their system, it trains them to disassociate from themselves and others even worse. 

https://www.cchrint.org/pdfs/violence-report.pdf

Come on, man. Scientologists?  Troll harder.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

More to the point, who cares?

If you saw the post I was responding to, you might understand the point that was being made (in agreement).

[Gardner Barnes 1560]

https://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/27698
Middle school in Indiana
Thinking it's a false alarm.

Nope. From my inside sales rep. You gun assholes are going to lose this battle eventually.

[Neonmoon 38127]

I’m blaming video games for this one,  definitely video games

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, XYZ said:

Time to re-write the second amendment?

You aren;t going to get any amendments changed without a constitutional convention. Nobody got the balls for that anymore.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13386]

42 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Actually, we don't get them in "pretty efficiently."  There are dozens of entry points.  People enter over the course of sometimes hours, as opposed to a single 15-20 minute period before school.

1500 people at a single entry point.  Screen them and their bag for weapons and get them through before class starts.  In order to make that work, you'd need surely, what, 8-10 individual "lines" and scanners?  Those each need to be manned, so let's say 16 people who are trained to (1) get people through an X-ray machine, and if they fail, pat them down, and (2) review an xray of bags to catch weapons.  Not to mention the expensive machinery to do that, times 8-10. 

I'm not saying it's not POSSIBLE -- anything is possible.  Give me $500 billion, and I can set up that system probably nationwide.  You got $500 billion laying around?  I mean, uh, I'd pay for it, but, man, I totally left my wallet at home today.

Agree.  Its too simplistic to say that we get people into sporting events or thru TSA efficiently so why not with schools.   I don't know if I fully agree with the efficiently part but Ican go along for the sake of an argument.  In both of these instances, many are advised to arrive an hour early (or longer) to ensure that you can get to your flight/seat in time.   While we can start demanding kids arrive at school an hour before the start, that is a major schedule change.   

And while I think the TSA and airport lines are a decent comparison in terms of how you could manage security and kids getting into the school, the scale is not similar.   I think we have less than 2 million domestic flyers per day in the US.  There are over 50 million kids going to school.   Do we need to develop a system that is 25x larger than the TSA?   The TSA has over 50K employees.  

[SmokeyBear1861 107]

52 minutes ago, Gardner Barnes said:

 

 

Nope. From my inside sales rep. You gun assholes are going to lose this battle eventually.



 

 

 

I'm glad you admit you are delusional and anti-gun. Why don't you move to New York, I think it's a complete gun-free utopia. 

Funny how you think criminals and mentally unstable people are going be successfully used to take away right of self defense from law abiding people. Don't you realize that all police and ex-military live in the real world, and don't want a complete police state in the US like they have in Euroop?

I invite you to read a bit about the problems, do you have any solutions other than some looney gun confiscation from law abiding citizens?

Please read -

https://www.cchrint.org/pdfs/violence-report.pdf

Edited May 25, 2018 by SmokeyBear1861

[SmokeyBear1861 107]

44 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I’m blaming video games for this one,  definitely video games

 

You should go back and read what I posted. The main cause is dissociative disorders, which cause the person with psychological problems all drugged up on SSRIs to go nuts. The violent video games aren't the problem, but it's pretty obvious when someone with dissociative disorders replaces their normal social activity with violent video games where their mind goes during an psychotic episode.

[jimmyjazz 45370]

9 minutes ago, SmokeyBear1861 said:

I'm glad you admit you are delusional and anti-gun. Why don't you move to New York, I think it's a complete gun-free utopia. 

Funny how you think criminals and mentally unstable people are going be successfully used to take away right of self defense from law abiding people. Don't you realize that all police and ex-military live in the real world, and don't want a complete police state in the US like they have in Euroop?

I invite you to read a bit about the problems, do you have any solutions other than some looney gun confiscation from law abiding citizens?

Please read -

https://www.cchrint.org/pdfs/violence-report.pdf

Could you stop linking "studies" by the Church of Fucking Scientology?

[jimmyjazz 45370]

8 minutes ago, SmokeyBear1861 said:

You should go back and read what I posted. The main cause is dissociative disorders, which cause the person with psychological problems all drugged up on SSRIs to go nuts. The violent video games aren't the problem, but it's pretty obvious when someone with dissociative disorders replaces their normal social activity with violent video games where their mind goes during an psychotic episode.

You're a lunatic.  That is not the main cause despite what Ollie North wants you to believe, you fool.

[HoustonHorn 1059]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

You're a lunatic.  That is not the main cause despite what Ollie North wants you to believe, you fool. 

What is the main cause?

[SmokeyBear1861 107]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Could you stop linking "studies" by the Church of Fucking Scientology?

Citizens Commission on Human Rights International

Could you read the study and all the sourced facts in there instead of lying and attacking the source? Such a typical shit-tier low IQ strategy from the left. Zero rebuttal, zero facts, zero arguments, just name calling and lying. 

[SmokeyBear1861 107]

1 minute ago, HoustonHorn said:

What is the main cause?

duh!

[JBJ 3637]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Actually, we don't get them in "pretty efficiently."  There are dozens of entry points.  People enter over the course of sometimes hours, as opposed to a single 15-20 minute period before school.

1500 people at a single entry point.  Screen them and their bag for weapons and get them through before class starts.  In order to make that work, you'd need surely, what, 8-10 individual "lines" and scanners?  Those each need to be manned, so let's say 16 people who are trained to (1) get people through an X-ray machine, and if they fail, pat them down, and (2) review an xray of bags to catch weapons.  Not to mention the expensive machinery to do that, times 8-10. 

I'm not saying it's not POSSIBLE -- anything is possible.  Give me $500 billion, and I can set up that system probably nationwide.  You got $500 billion laying around?  I mean, uh, I'd pay for it, but, man, I totally left my wallet at home today.

What about simple detectors like Dick's Sporting has?  I never fail to set those off when I go through (titanium implant), but they never go off on keys and watches.  I say Dick's because they aren't quite the simple security tag detectors at Walmart or the mall (which I never trigger), but they aren't door screeners either.

It's all security theater anyway.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Re Lee Greenwood and his song. 

"That song is straight homosexual country music Special Olympics gay." -- Marine recon badass Sgt Brad "Iceman" Colbert, quoted in Generation Kill, as his HumVee literally spearheaded the way into Iraq. 

A good friend of mine is a ten-year vet who served combat tours in Bosnia and Iraq -- he was Ricky Recon too, but in the Army. We fuck with each other all the time with "your mom" jokes and shit but nothing seriously pisses him off more than when I send him that song. He said he was gonna "stomp my guts in the mud" the next time I do it. 

It's for the parents of vets and vet wannabees, not actual vets. 

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13386]

Damn.  Santa Fe didn't even last a week as the most recent school shooting.  

[Brisketexan 104215]

4 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Re Lee Greenwood and his song. 

"That song is straight homosexual country music Special Olympics gay." -- Marine recon badass Sgt Brad "Iceman" Colbert, quoted in Generation Kill, as his HumVee literally spearheaded the way into Iraq. 

A good friend of mine is a ten-year vet who served combat tours in Bosnia and Iraq -- he was Ricky Recon too, but in the Army. We fuck with each other all the time with "your mom" jokes and shit but nothing seriously pisses him off more than when I send him that song. He said he was gonna "stomp my guts in the mud" the next time I do it. 

It's for the parents of vets and vet wannabees, not actual vets. 

 

It's a great song for people who masturbate to the thought of war, not so great for those who've been through the actual orgy of violence that is war.

[GW Hayduke 1949]

I’m going to jump out on a limb. There isn’t a single major “cause” for the untenable frequency/magnitude of mass shootings. There isn’t one single major “cause” for the untenable rate of firearm-related violence in the US.

I’m going to go a little further on that limb. There isn’t one single “solution” to either of these problems.

However, anyone who isn’t willing to accept that the unfettered and underregulated supply of firearms in our population as one of the major reasons for our problems, please help me understand with a supportted rational. 

[jimmyjazz 45370]

15 minutes ago, HoustonHorn said:

What is the main cause?

It sure isn't ADHD meds.  This is yet another stupid deflection promulgated by the NRA that the ignorant right wingers have seized upon and now they're running with it like good little foot soldiers.

[Brian Fantana 6652]

14 minutes ago, SmokeyBear1861 said:

Citizens Commission on Human Rights International

Could you read the study and all the sourced facts in there instead of lying and attacking the source? Such a typical shit-tier low IQ strategy from the left. Zero rebuttal, zero facts, zero arguments, just name calling and lying. 

CCHRI was established by the Church of Scientology, you fucking half-wit. Who's lying now?

[Brisketexan 104215]

1 minute ago, GW Hayduke said:

I’m going to jump out on a limb. There isn’t a single major “cause” for the untenable frequency/magnitude of mass shootings. There isn’t one single major “cause” for the untenable rate of firearm-related violence in the US.

I’m going to go a little further on that limb. There isn’t one single “solution” to either of these problems.

However, anyone who isn’t willing to accept that the unfettered and underregulated supply of firearms in our population as one of the major reasons for our problems, please help me understand with a supportted rational. 

Excellent post.

It's like any other "failure analysis."  There's almost NEVER one single cause.  Planes usually don't crash because of one failure -- they crash because 10 things in a row went wrong.  It takes a confluence of causes to lead to the ultimate failure.

Multi-faceted causation.  Which requires multi-element solutions.  Not just your pet cause, or the distraction you want everyone to look at instead of some other element.

[Brisketexan 104215]

Just now, Brian Fantana said:

CCHRI was established by the Church of Scientology, you fucking half-wit. Who's lying now?

It's a Smokey post.  It's always a lie.