Mass Shootings

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

This is simply about a hugely populated society that cannot safely co-exist with blatant and easy gun ownership. Let's not complicate things.

For me it seems to be a homicidal maniac problem. There’s probably more to our mass shooter phenomenon than irresponsible gun policy but I agree, the bad gun policy should be the focus at this time. 

But suppose we had no guns, would people still be as kill crazy in the US? More so than other developed countries? Why? 
 

questions for another time

Edited May 8, 2023 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hank Kingsley 20916]

Cool, another lockdown at Lamar High School today.

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Hank Kingsley

[Hank Kingsley 20916]

 

[Smax 3800]

1 hour ago, Stilicho said:

I would say that once this violence touches someone they love, the desire to be part of the tribe will evaporate.

Uvalde says otherwise.

 

This is what I've been thinking for awhile, not advocating, suggesting or inciting, just an observation

[speed817 19256]

45 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

About to lose it, I need to get the fuck off social media and just work. The parents and three year old are dead, the five year old is alive.

 

 

https://gofund.me/12c4df01

 

[DDD Dad 14332]

34 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Cool, another lockdown at Lamar High School today.

 

 

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

From this thread:

 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20395]

This probably won't be on YouTube too long, though it is not graphic. Garcia uploaded this video to YouTube before he went out to the mall and scheduled it to be posted after he was dead.
 

 

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

suppose all AR15 style guns are magically banned, how many lives will that save annually? We should do it, but the death by handgun is 90% of all gun deaths right? 

[dieucla98 2942]

4 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

suppose all AR15 style guns are magically banned, how many lives will that save annually? We should do it, but the death by handgun is 90% of all gun deaths right? 

I'm not going to fact check this but in the very least, a 10% reduction through one policy reenactment is a pretty fucking good start.

Edited May 8, 2023 by dieucla98
I know the math isn't that simple.

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

8 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

suppose all AR15 style guns are magically banned, how many lives will that save annually? We should do it, but the death by handgun is 90% of all gun deaths right? 

The "we can't solve 100% of the problem so we shouldn't make any attempt at all" line of thinking is a big reason why we are where we are. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33868]

I still go back to this every time

[Helobious 9448]

21 minutes ago, Seasick Sailor said:

 

Isn’t that swastika supposed to be tilted? 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

suppose all AR15 style guns are magically banned, how many lives will that save annually? We should do it, but the death by handgun is 90% of all gun deaths right? 

Well, eight people in Allen. Five people in Cleveland. Six people in Nashville. Six in Louisville. Five in Colorado Springs. Three in St. Louis. Three in Bend. Four in Greenwood. Seven in Highland Park. Twenty-one in Uvalde. Ten in Buffalo... and that's just quickly scanning a list on Wikipedia of the past year. There's 60 people in Las Vegas that would also like a word... but they can't talk. Neither can the 27 in Sutherland Springs or the 50 in Orlando.

This also doesn't speak to those permanently injured or otherwise scared by the terrorism of mass shootings.

For instance, I didn't count the five year old boy in Allen who wasn't killed, but his parents and brother were. So, it's only three deaths. What's the big deal?
 

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

2 minutes ago, dieucla98 said:

I'm not going to fact check this but in the very least, a 10% reduction through one policy reenactment is a pretty fucking good start.

well i was just making up that 90% number which seemed reasonable to me , maybe it's 98%.  That doesn't count rifles (not AR style) or shotguns.  Strictly AR15 style one, what is the annual death toll? 

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

 

Which types of firearms are most commonly used in gun murders in the U.S.?

In 2020, the most recent year for which the FBI has published data, handguns were involved in 59% of the 13,620 U.S. gun murders and non-negligent manslaughters for which data is available. Rifles – the category that includes guns sometimes referred to as “assault weapons” – were involved in 3% of firearm murders. Shotguns were involved in 1%. The remainder of gun homicides and non-negligent manslaughters (36%) involved other kinds of firearms or those classified as “type not stated.”

 

What share of U.S. gun deaths are murders and what share are suicides?

Though they tend to get less public attention than gun-related murders, suicides have long accounted for the majority of U.S. gun deaths. In 2021, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (26,328), while 43% were murders (20,958), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were accidental (549), involved law enforcement (537) or had undetermined circumstances (458).

 

3 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

The "we can't solve 100% of the problem so we shouldn't make any attempt at all" line of thinking is a big reason why we are where we are. 

that's exactly NOT what i wrote. Reading comprehension ma dude. 

[gmr548 16576]

That's awesome. I loved that place when I lived in Dallas.
Also, aren't you anti-GOP? Surprised you'd be so close friends with someone so GOP. That place was like a mecca for conservative white men who office downtown. There were shrine-like photos of Dubya everywhere last time I was there, like 5 years ago. 

I mean, W is ass my dude but if a Governor/President/Ex-President comes in my BBQ joint, that photo is getting signed and going on the wall.

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

3 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Well, eight people in Allen. Five people in Cleveland. Six people in Nashville. Six in Louisville. Five in Colorado Springs. Three in St. Louis. Three in Bend. Four in Greenwood. Seven in Highland Park. Twenty-one in Uvalde. Ten in Buffalo... and that's just quickly scanning a list on Wikipedia of the past year. There's 60 people in Las Vegas that would also like a word... but they can't talk. Neither can the 27 in Sutherland Springs or the 50 in Orlando.

This also doesn't speak to those permanently injured or otherwise scared by the terrorism of mass shootings.

For instance, I didn't count the five year old boy in Allen who wasn't killed, but his parents and brother were. So, it's only three deaths. What's the big deal?
 

oh i agree, no reason to have AR15 style guns at all. BAN THEM. 

 

*But there remains the minor detail of the other 20,000+ annual deaths by handgun. 

 

[Hawndoh 2386]

I think around half my school has been checked out and gone home. Panic over social media rumors.

I hate snap chat 

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

at this point, i'm favoring BANNING all guns, AR15, hanguns, hunting rifles, shotguns, lady pistols.  Everything.  No more making or import.  No home raids, but shut down the industry and close all gunshops.  All internet sales will be monitored and websites shut down.  No hunting anymore, go fishing.  The End.

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

7 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

that's exactly NOT what i wrote. Reading comprehension ma dude. 

I saw what you wrote, and I'm glad you agree with me.  But the "yeah, but..." tone of your post is what that the Daily Texan crew will cling to in order to prevent any change.  Yes, there will still be a handgun problem.  No, it should not prevent us from tackling the low-hanging fruit. 

And as I wrote a few pages back, the symbolic message sent by an AR-15 ban would be just as important as the ban itself.

[HamsterHookah 112]

In Serbia, where 17 people were killed in two mass shootings last week, the president called for an “almost complete disarmament” and offered one month of amnesty for gun owners to hand over their illegal weapons, according to the NYT. Serbia has the third-highest gun ownership rate in the world, with 39 firearms per 100 people. The US is No. 1 with 121 per 100 people.

[TexArcher 37774]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

But suppose we had no guns, would people still be as kill crazy in the US? More so than other developed countries? Why? 

 

I seriously doubt it.  It's a whole lot easier to pull a trigger a bunch of times than it is to stab someone or beat him to death with a bat, not least of all because the victims get to defend themselves.  What percentage of these shooters has the stomach for wet work killing, not to mention the balls?  It's very close to 0, I'm pretty sure.

Why am I so sure of that?  Because there are plenty of mentally ill and angry people in England, Japan, and Australia.  But mass killings almost never happen there, where the ill and the angry can't go to their local sporting goods store and buy a weapon of war and a thousand rounds.

There is absolutely no question about the root cause of this problem, or how to fix it.  None.  And everyone pointing in any other direction is a fucking shill for a special interest group.

 

[Hank Kingsley 20916]

2 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

 

I seriously doubt it.  It's a whole lot easier to pull a trigger a bunch of times than it is to stab someone or beat him to death with a bat, not least of all because the victims get to defend themselves.  What percentage of these shooters has the stomach for wet work killing, not to mention the balls?  It's very close to 0, I'm pretty sure.

Why am I so sure of that?  Because there are plenty of mentally ill and angry people in England, Japan, and Australia.  But mass killings almost never happen there, where the ill and the angry can't go to their local sporting goods store and buy a weapon of war and a thousand rounds.

There is absolutely no question about the root cause of this problem, or how to fix it.  None.  And everyone pointing in any other direction is a fucking shill for a special interest group.

 

All of this. 

I also think using a firearm makes the killing impersonal and easier to follow through with. 

 

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

59 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

suppose all AR15 style guns are magically banned, how many lives will that save annually? We should do it, but the death by handgun is 90% of all gun deaths right? 

Now do deaths by mass shooting. 

[Satchel 6938]

The Allen TX church where Greg Abbott went to think and pray, hosted a viewing of Denesh DeSouza’s pro Trump work of fiction on the 2020 stolen election, 2000 Mules. This may help outsiders understand the kind of twisted Christian  praxis most of us in Texas have to contend with.

 

[royiv 9285]

54 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

I mean, W is ass my dude but if a Governor/President/Ex-President comes in my BBQ joint, that photo is getting signed and going on the wall.

If a certain ex-president comes into my bbq joint, he's not going to be served and would be asked to immediately leave the premises.

[safe sex 11708]

Take away their tax status. I'm so fucking sick of political churches getting away with political murder

[jimmyjazz 45898]

I'll be honest, if given the choice between:

1. no change

2. banning all firearms

 

I'll choose (2) every day.  The thing is, I think it's unnecessary.  I think common sense reform, including minimum age requirements to purchase firearms or ammunition, multi-day waiting periods to take receipt of a new weapon, legitimate background checks, and bans on high capacity weapons and hardware along with restrictions on maximum firing rate will lead to a significant improvement in loss of life.  But hey, I'm just a liberal fucktard who isn't arguing in good faith, right/

[Brisketexan 105093]

8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'll be honest, if given the choice between:

1. no change

2. banning all firearms

 

I'll choose (2) every day.  The thing is, I think it's unnecessary.  I think common sense reform, including minimum age requirements to purchase firearms or ammunition, multi-day waiting periods to take receipt of a new weapon, legitimate background checks, and bans on high capacity weapons and hardware along with restrictions on maximum firing rate will lead to a significant improvement in loss of life.  But hey, I'm just a liberal fucktard who isn't arguing in good faith, right/

It WOULD be unnecessary....except for the fact that the dominant power structure is solidly anchored in the "NO CHANGE!!!" position.  Which will inevitably lead to #2, at some point or another.

I argue (to zero avail, mind you) against position 1 because I am advancing TWO interests: 1) I'm sick of fucking American slaughter, and 2) I'm a life-long gun owner who would like to continue to own/possess firearms to engage in the lawful activities I enjoy (I've been hunting literally since I was a toddler).  If we do the "common sense gun reform" path, we serve both of those interests.  Instead, today we follow path 1 with near-zero deviation, which actually serves NEITHER interest.  Sure, TODAY I get to keep my firearms.  But tomorrow -- some tomorrow -- the fault line will shift and irrevocably lurch to position 2.  It is coming.  Not today or tomorrow, but it's coming.  Demonstrate utter contempt and scorn for the reasonable desires of a majority of Americans (FFS, even FOX FUCKING NEWS POLLING shows over 70% of Americans in favor of multiple pieces of common sense reform), and you're going to get it thrown back in your face eventually.

I hate the gun nut crowd both because they don't give a single fuck about the health and safety of my fellow Americans, AND because their absolutely insane and contemptuous path is going to end up costing me and my family the ability to engage in safe and legal firearms activities.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

But hey, I'm just a liberal fucktard who isn't arguing in good faith, right/

Just with so much of this stuff, I have stop and ask myself am I liberal? Hell, I don't feel like it at all. I just feel like the other side is extreme as hell.

I'm a white, married, father, homeowner, gun owner, business owner, truck driver, born and raised in small-town Texas. Went to public school, went to public universities. Hell, I fret over my lawn more than Hank Hill. That should be a bread-and-butter Republican voter. 

But holy hell they are insane. They are just over-the-top irrational.

[Surly Bevo 24908]

So far today I have had a woman who is a skip level to me cry and ultimately have to take time off work.  Another skip level to me is friends with family of security guard that was murdered, but he somehow soldiered through.  

Now a direct peer of mine had to ask our boss to push back or outright cancel a meeting because he lives in Allen and his two kids just showed up at home upset and with questions about why all the extra security, heightened tension at school today (elementary mind you). Our boss obviously respected that and did so.

I mean if simple sensible logical discourse can't be had about this maybe corporate bean counters can start figuring out how much this is costing them in lost productivity since nobody gives a damn about anything but dollars.  

[jimmyjazz 45898]

2 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Just with so much of this stuff, I have stop and ask myself am I liberal? Hell, I don't feel like it at all. I just feel like the other side is extreme as hell.

I don't consider myself a true liberal in the modern sense.  i.e., Bernie was too far left for me.  I am left of center, though, even if we don't account for the perversion of "center"' brought on by the march of the Republican party to fascism.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Surly Bevo said:

So far today I have had a woman who is a skip level to me cry and ultimately have to take time off work.  Another skip level to me is friends with family of security guard that was murdered, but he somehow soldiered through.  

Now a direct peer of mine had to ask our boss to push back or outright cancel a meeting because he lives in Allen and his two kids just showed up at home upset and with questions about why all the extra security, heightened tension at school today (elementary mind you). Our boss obviously respected that and did so.

I mean if simple sensible logical discourse can't be had about this maybe corporate bean counters can start figuring out how much this is costing them in lost productivity since nobody gives a damn about anything but dollars.  

I've mentioned that before. The number of dead is what makes the headlines. The numbered injured is FAR greater. Then the number hit with scares you can't see. And then there are things like having to tear down Robb Elementary and rebuild a new school, the cost for increased security guards and features, etc.

A $1,000 rifle is literally causing millions in damage in a matter of minutes. From a monetary standpoint, it's insanity.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10232]

It shouldn't be hard to at minimum put say a 1 year freeze on sales or AR15 style rifles while we decide what else we can do. Start with a temporary freeze on new sales, that's it.  That should be doable.

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

A long way to go, but at least it's a small step in the right direction:

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33868]

wow. I'm genuinely shocked.

[Huckleberry 32851]

Hey if they can stomach age limits then just make it 120 years of age. 

[GenXer 2850]

18 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

wow. I'm genuinely shocked.

I’m more shocked by the passage of the bill than the massacre in Allen

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

57 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

 

I seriously doubt it.  It's a whole lot easier to pull a trigger a bunch of times than it is to stab someone or beat him to death with a bat, not least of all because the victims get to defend themselves.  What percentage of these shooters has the stomach for wet work killing, not to mention the balls?  It's very close to 0, I'm pretty sure.

Why am I so sure of that?  Because there are plenty of mentally ill and angry people in England, Japan, and Australia.  But mass killings almost never happen there, where the ill and the angry can't go to their local sporting goods store and buy a weapon of war and a thousand rounds.

There is absolutely no question about the root cause of this problem, or how to fix it.  None.  And everyone pointing in any other direction is a fucking shill for a special interest group.

We can have a gun problem and a violet extremist problem.  Both things can be true at the same time. The easy access to guns and normalization of fascist views (that advocate violence) exacerbate the lethality of violent extremists. I think it’s a mistake to ignore this connection. 

[TexArcher 37774]

8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We can have a gun problem and a violet extremist problem.  Both things can be true at the same time. The easy access to guns and normalization of fascist views (that advocate violence) exacerbate the lethality of violent extremists. I think it’s a mistake to ignore this connection. 

Oh, I'm not disagreeing at all.

I'm just saying that they're almost all pussies without their guns.  There's a fascist problem in many places in Europe right now, too, and they're not getting shot up like 1.5 times per day.

 

[GenXer 2850]

35 minutes ago, Seasick Sailor said:

A long way to go, but at least it's a small step in the right direction:

 

Meanwhile, Hertz won’t rent a camaro to anyone under 25 because youths are too irresponsible, could hurt themselves and others, and damage property.

[RomaVicta 29904]

2 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

 

I see white people.

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

 

[Brisketexan 105093]

5 minutes ago, Seasick Sailor said:

 

Just a coupla freedom trophies right there!  Put em in the case with all the other ones!  There's still a little room on the Uvalde trophy shelve, if you shuffle things around!

[Stilicho 1397]

7 minutes ago, Seasick Sailor said:

 

It's probably pedantic, but I'm not sure I'd say they "died" in the shooting.

They were murdered. Anything short seems disingenuous.

[Dahobbs 17533]

1 hour ago, TexArcher said:

 

I seriously doubt it.  It's a whole lot easier to pull a trigger a bunch of times than it is to stab someone or beat him to death with a bat, not least of all because the victims get to defend themselves.  What percentage of these shooters has the stomach for wet work killing, not to mention the balls?  It's very close to 0, I'm pretty sure.

Why am I so sure of that?  Because there are plenty of mentally ill and angry people in England, Japan, and Australia.  But mass killings almost never happen there, where the ill and the angry can't go to their local sporting goods store and buy a weapon of war and a thousand rounds.

There is absolutely no question about the root cause of this problem, or how to fix it.  None.  And everyone pointing in any other direction is a fucking shill for a special interest group.

 

 

 

[nbmishoid 949]

Allegedly 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

The Allen TX church where Greg Abbott went to think and pray, hosted a viewing of Denesh DeSouza’s pro Trump work of fiction on the 2020 stolen election, 2000 Mules. This may help outsiders understand the kind of twisted Christian  praxis most of us in Texas have to contend with.
 

“Christianity” in this country is a deadly joke. Just like the dickheads in the gun owners thread, until y’all can start helping with a solution and stop hiding behind constitutionality, fuck off. That goes for “christians” too. Everyone of y’all that consider yourself a follower of Christ but does nothing to bring the hideous and hateful bullshit your brothers in Christ foist upon the rest of us, fuck yourself too.

[wildcat09 29349]

1 hour ago, GenXer said:

I’m more shocked by the passage of the bill than the massacre in Allen

Well, nothing has passed yet and it's still very unlikely to pass.

[jimmyjazz 45898]

14 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

That goes for “christians” too. Everyone of y’all that consider yourself a follower of Christ but does nothing to bring the hideous and hateful bullshit your brothers in Christ foist upon the rest of us, fuck yourself too.

I hesitate to say this, but what the hell:  I think that CAN come down to a matter of prioritizing effort.  For a little while I attended a church in north Austin that was highly focused on helping the homeless in its immediate community.  People were allowed to camp on church grounds, and the church itself was opened daily for them to shower and often get free meals.  It was a serious, committed effort to do God's will.  Did they spend a lot of time reaching beyond their neighborhood to try and change the abhorrent behavior of "prosperity gospel" mega-churches?  No, they didn't.  Did that render the value of the services they provided moot?  No, it didn't.  They were good people doing good deeds.  That was it.