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Posted (edited)
  On 5/8/2023 at 3:04 PM, Hank Kingsley said:

This is simply about a hugely populated society that cannot safely co-exist with blatant and easy gun ownership. Let's not complicate things.

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For me it seems to be a homicidal maniac problem. There’s probably more to our mass shooter phenomenon than irresponsible gun policy but I agree, the bad gun policy should be the focus at this time. 

But suppose we had no guns, would people still be as kill crazy in the US? More so than other developed countries? Why? 
 

questions for another time

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
Posted
  On 5/8/2023 at 4:02 PM, Stilicho said:

I would say that once this violence touches someone they love, the desire to be part of the tribe will evaporate.

Uvalde says otherwise.

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This is what I've been thinking for awhile, not advocating, suggesting or inciting, just an observation

Posted
  On 5/8/2023 at 6:47 PM, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

suppose all AR15 style guns are magically banned, how many lives will that save annually? We should do it, but the death by handgun is 90% of all gun deaths right? 

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Well, eight people in Allen. Five people in Cleveland. Six people in Nashville. Six in Louisville. Five in Colorado Springs. Three in St. Louis. Three in Bend. Four in Greenwood. Seven in Highland Park. Twenty-one in Uvalde. Ten in Buffalo... and that's just quickly scanning a list on Wikipedia of the past year. There's 60 people in Las Vegas that would also like a word... but they can't talk. Neither can the 27 in Sutherland Springs or the 50 in Orlando.

This also doesn't speak to those permanently injured or otherwise scared by the terrorism of mass shootings.

For instance, I didn't count the five year old boy in Allen who wasn't killed, but his parents and brother were. So, it's only three deaths. What's the big deal?
 

Posted
  On 5/8/2023 at 6:51 PM, dieucla98 said:

I'm not going to fact check this but in the very least, a 10% reduction through one policy reenactment is a pretty fucking good start.

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well i was just making up that 90% number which seemed reasonable to me , maybe it's 98%.  That doesn't count rifles (not AR style) or shotguns.  Strictly AR15 style one, what is the annual death toll? 

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

 

Which types of firearms are most commonly used in gun murders in the U.S.?

In 2020, the most recent year for which the FBI has published data, handguns were involved in 59% of the 13,620 U.S. gun murders and non-negligent manslaughters for which data is available. Rifles – the category that includes guns sometimes referred to as “assault weapons” – were involved in 3% of firearm murders. Shotguns were involved in 1%. The remainder of gun homicides and non-negligent manslaughters (36%) involved other kinds of firearms or those classified as “type not stated.”

 

What share of U.S. gun deaths are murders and what share are suicides?

Though they tend to get less public attention than gun-related murders, suicides have long accounted for the majority of U.S. gun deaths. In 2021, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (26,328), while 43% were murders (20,958), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were accidental (549), involved law enforcement (537) or had undetermined circumstances (458).

FT_23.04.20_GunDeathsUpdate_1.png

 

  On 5/8/2023 at 6:56 PM, Chuckie Finster said:

The "we can't solve 100% of the problem so we shouldn't make any attempt at all" line of thinking is a big reason why we are where we are. 

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that's exactly NOT what i wrote. Reading comprehension ma dude. 

Posted
  On 5/8/2023 at 4:37 PM, HamsterHookah said:
That's awesome. I loved that place when I lived in Dallas.
Also, aren't you anti-GOP? Surprised you'd be so close friends with someone so GOP. That place was like a mecca for conservative white men who office downtown. There were shrine-like photos of Dubya everywhere last time I was there, like 5 years ago. 

I mean, W is ass my dude but if a Governor/President/Ex-President comes in my BBQ joint, that photo is getting signed and going on the wall.
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Posted
  On 5/8/2023 at 7:00 PM, FirstTimeCaller said:

Well, eight people in Allen. Five people in Cleveland. Six people in Nashville. Six in Louisville. Five in Colorado Springs. Three in St. Louis. Three in Bend. Four in Greenwood. Seven in Highland Park. Twenty-one in Uvalde. Ten in Buffalo... and that's just quickly scanning a list on Wikipedia of the past year. There's 60 people in Las Vegas that would also like a word... but they can't talk. Neither can the 27 in Sutherland Springs or the 50 in Orlando.

This also doesn't speak to those permanently injured or otherwise scared by the terrorism of mass shootings.

For instance, I didn't count the five year old boy in Allen who wasn't killed, but his parents and brother were. So, it's only three deaths. What's the big deal?
 

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oh i agree, no reason to have AR15 style guns at all. BAN THEM. 

 

*But there remains the minor detail of the other 20,000+ annual deaths by handgun. 

 

Posted

at this point, i'm favoring BANNING all guns, AR15, hanguns, hunting rifles, shotguns, lady pistols.  Everything.  No more making or import.  No home raids, but shut down the industry and close all gunshops.  All internet sales will be monitored and websites shut down.  No hunting anymore, go fishing.  The End.

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Posted
  On 5/8/2023 at 7:00 PM, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

that's exactly NOT what i wrote. Reading comprehension ma dude. 

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I saw what you wrote, and I'm glad you agree with me.  But the "yeah, but..." tone of your post is what that the Daily Texan crew will cling to in order to prevent any change.  Yes, there will still be a handgun problem.  No, it should not prevent us from tackling the low-hanging fruit. 

And as I wrote a few pages back, the symbolic message sent by an AR-15 ban would be just as important as the ban itself.

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Posted

In Serbia, where 17 people were killed in two mass shootings last week, the president called for an “almost complete disarmament” and offered one month of amnesty for gun owners to hand over their illegal weapons, according to the NYT. Serbia has the third-highest gun ownership rate in the world, with 39 firearms per 100 people. The US is No. 1 with 121 per 100 people.

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Posted
  On 5/8/2023 at 7:35 PM, TexArcher said:

 

I seriously doubt it.  It's a whole lot easier to pull a trigger a bunch of times than it is to stab someone or beat him to death with a bat, not least of all because the victims get to defend themselves.  What percentage of these shooters has the stomach for wet work killing, not to mention the balls?  It's very close to 0, I'm pretty sure.

Why am I so sure of that?  Because there are plenty of mentally ill and angry people in England, Japan, and Australia.  But mass killings almost never happen there, where the ill and the angry can't go to their local sporting goods store and buy a weapon of war and a thousand rounds.

There is absolutely no question about the root cause of this problem, or how to fix it.  None.  And everyone pointing in any other direction is a fucking shill for a special interest group.

 

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All of this. 

I also think using a firearm makes the killing impersonal and easier to follow through with. 

 

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Posted

The Allen TX church where Greg Abbott went to think and pray, hosted a viewing of Denesh DeSouza’s pro Trump work of fiction on the 2020 stolen election, 2000 Mules. This may help outsiders understand the kind of twisted Christian  praxis most of us in Texas have to contend with.

 
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Posted
  On 5/8/2023 at 7:01 PM, gmr548 said:


I mean, W is ass my dude but if a Governor/President/Ex-President comes in my BBQ joint, that photo is getting signed and going on the wall.

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If a certain ex-president comes into my bbq joint, he's not going to be served and would be asked to immediately leave the premises.

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Posted

I'll be honest, if given the choice between:

1. no change

2. banning all firearms

 

I'll choose (2) every day.  The thing is, I think it's unnecessary.  I think common sense reform, including minimum age requirements to purchase firearms or ammunition, multi-day waiting periods to take receipt of a new weapon, legitimate background checks, and bans on high capacity weapons and hardware along with restrictions on maximum firing rate will lead to a significant improvement in loss of life.  But hey, I'm just a liberal fucktard who isn't arguing in good faith, right/

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Posted
  On 5/8/2023 at 7:58 PM, jimmyjazz said:

I'll be honest, if given the choice between:

1. no change

2. banning all firearms

 

I'll choose (2) every day.  The thing is, I think it's unnecessary.  I think common sense reform, including minimum age requirements to purchase firearms or ammunition, multi-day waiting periods to take receipt of a new weapon, legitimate background checks, and bans on high capacity weapons and hardware along with restrictions on maximum firing rate will lead to a significant improvement in loss of life.  But hey, I'm just a liberal fucktard who isn't arguing in good faith, right/

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It WOULD be unnecessary....except for the fact that the dominant power structure is solidly anchored in the "NO CHANGE!!!" position.  Which will inevitably lead to #2, at some point or another.

I argue (to zero avail, mind you) against position 1 because I am advancing TWO interests: 1) I'm sick of fucking American slaughter, and 2) I'm a life-long gun owner who would like to continue to own/possess firearms to engage in the lawful activities I enjoy (I've been hunting literally since I was a toddler).  If we do the "common sense gun reform" path, we serve both of those interests.  Instead, today we follow path 1 with near-zero deviation, which actually serves NEITHER interest.  Sure, TODAY I get to keep my firearms.  But tomorrow -- some tomorrow -- the fault line will shift and irrevocably lurch to position 2.  It is coming.  Not today or tomorrow, but it's coming.  Demonstrate utter contempt and scorn for the reasonable desires of a majority of Americans (FFS, even FOX FUCKING NEWS POLLING shows over 70% of Americans in favor of multiple pieces of common sense reform), and you're going to get it thrown back in your face eventually.

I hate the gun nut crowd both because they don't give a single fuck about the health and safety of my fellow Americans, AND because their absolutely insane and contemptuous path is going to end up costing me and my family the ability to engage in safe and legal firearms activities.

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Posted
  On 5/8/2023 at 7:58 PM, jimmyjazz said:

But hey, I'm just a liberal fucktard who isn't arguing in good faith, right/

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Just with so much of this stuff, I have stop and ask myself am I liberal? Hell, I don't feel like it at all. I just feel like the other side is extreme as hell.

I'm a white, married, father, homeowner, gun owner, business owner, truck driver, born and raised in small-town Texas. Went to public school, went to public universities. Hell, I fret over my lawn more than Hank Hill. That should be a bread-and-butter Republican voter. 

But holy hell they are insane. They are just over-the-top irrational.

Posted

So far today I have had a woman who is a skip level to me cry and ultimately have to take time off work.  Another skip level to me is friends with family of security guard that was murdered, but he somehow soldiered through.  

Now a direct peer of mine had to ask our boss to push back or outright cancel a meeting because he lives in Allen and his two kids just showed up at home upset and with questions about why all the extra security, heightened tension at school today (elementary mind you). Our boss obviously respected that and did so.

I mean if simple sensible logical discourse can't be had about this maybe corporate bean counters can start figuring out how much this is costing them in lost productivity since nobody gives a damn about anything but dollars.  

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Posted
  On 5/8/2023 at 8:12 PM, FirstTimeCaller said:

Just with so much of this stuff, I have stop and ask myself am I liberal? Hell, I don't feel like it at all. I just feel like the other side is extreme as hell.

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I don't consider myself a true liberal in the modern sense.  i.e., Bernie was too far left for me.  I am left of center, though, even if we don't account for the perversion of "center"' brought on by the march of the Republican party to fascism.

Posted
  On 5/8/2023 at 8:15 PM, Surly Bevo said:

So far today I have had a woman who is a skip level to me cry and ultimately have to take time off work.  Another skip level to me is friends with family of security guard that was murdered, but he somehow soldiered through.  

Now a direct peer of mine had to ask our boss to push back or outright cancel a meeting because he lives in Allen and his two kids just showed up at home upset and with questions about why all the extra security, heightened tension at school today (elementary mind you). Our boss obviously respected that and did so.

I mean if simple sensible logical discourse can't be had about this maybe corporate bean counters can start figuring out how much this is costing them in lost productivity since nobody gives a damn about anything but dollars.  

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I've mentioned that before. The number of dead is what makes the headlines. The numbered injured is FAR greater. Then the number hit with scares you can't see. And then there are things like having to tear down Robb Elementary and rebuild a new school, the cost for increased security guards and features, etc.

A $1,000 rifle is literally causing millions in damage in a matter of minutes. From a monetary standpoint, it's insanity.

Posted

It shouldn't be hard to at minimum put say a 1 year freeze on sales or AR15 style rifles while we decide what else we can do. Start with a temporary freeze on new sales, that's it.  That should be doable.

Posted
  On 5/8/2023 at 7:35 PM, TexArcher said:

 

I seriously doubt it.  It's a whole lot easier to pull a trigger a bunch of times than it is to stab someone or beat him to death with a bat, not least of all because the victims get to defend themselves.  What percentage of these shooters has the stomach for wet work killing, not to mention the balls?  It's very close to 0, I'm pretty sure.

Why am I so sure of that?  Because there are plenty of mentally ill and angry people in England, Japan, and Australia.  But mass killings almost never happen there, where the ill and the angry can't go to their local sporting goods store and buy a weapon of war and a thousand rounds.

There is absolutely no question about the root cause of this problem, or how to fix it.  None.  And everyone pointing in any other direction is a fucking shill for a special interest group.

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We can have a gun problem and a violet extremist problem.  Both things can be true at the same time. The easy access to guns and normalization of fascist views (that advocate violence) exacerbate the lethality of violent extremists. I think it’s a mistake to ignore this connection. 

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Posted
  On 5/8/2023 at 8:50 PM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We can have a gun problem and a violet extremist problem.  Both things can be true at the same time. The easy access to guns and normalization of fascist views (that advocate violence) exacerbate the lethality of violent extremists. I think it’s a mistake to ignore this connection. 

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Oh, I'm not disagreeing at all.

I'm just saying that they're almost all pussies without their guns.  There's a fascist problem in many places in Europe right now, too, and they're not getting shot up like 1.5 times per day.

 

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Posted
  On 5/8/2023 at 8:23 PM, Seasick Sailor said:

A long way to go, but at least it's a small step in the right direction:

 

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Meanwhile, Hertz won’t rent a camaro to anyone under 25 because youths are too irresponsible, could hurt themselves and others, and damage property.

A5251F82-10DE-4E52-B855-AE9D0D887654.jpeg

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Posted
  On 5/8/2023 at 7:35 PM, TexArcher said:

 

I seriously doubt it.  It's a whole lot easier to pull a trigger a bunch of times than it is to stab someone or beat him to death with a bat, not least of all because the victims get to defend themselves.  What percentage of these shooters has the stomach for wet work killing, not to mention the balls?  It's very close to 0, I'm pretty sure.

Why am I so sure of that?  Because there are plenty of mentally ill and angry people in England, Japan, and Australia.  But mass killings almost never happen there, where the ill and the angry can't go to their local sporting goods store and buy a weapon of war and a thousand rounds.

There is absolutely no question about the root cause of this problem, or how to fix it.  None.  And everyone pointing in any other direction is a fucking shill for a special interest group.

 

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Posted
  On 5/8/2023 at 9:51 PM, Patricio Swayze said:

That goes for “christians” too. Everyone of y’all that consider yourself a follower of Christ but does nothing to bring the hideous and hateful bullshit your brothers in Christ foist upon the rest of us, fuck yourself too.

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I hesitate to say this, but what the hell:  I think that CAN come down to a matter of prioritizing effort.  For a little while I attended a church in north Austin that was highly focused on helping the homeless in its immediate community.  People were allowed to camp on church grounds, and the church itself was opened daily for them to shower and often get free meals.  It was a serious, committed effort to do God's will.  Did they spend a lot of time reaching beyond their neighborhood to try and change the abhorrent behavior of "prosperity gospel" mega-churches?  No, they didn't.  Did that render the value of the services they provided moot?  No, it didn't.  They were good people doing good deeds.  That was it.

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