Mass Shootings

Dahobbs · February 15

59 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

Made everyone who attends the parade have to show ID and have a background check. Problem solved…

@MirrOlure says the solution is just to prevent "gangsters" from attending those events.

landman · February 15

12 hours ago, Shut up Lou Holtz said:

fuck all this and fuck the republicans

Big part of the problem, but not the only ones. Couldn't the President just issue an executive order banning assault rifles?

Dahobbs · February 15

14 minutes ago, landman said:

Big part of the problem, but not the only ones. Couldn't the President just issue an executive order banning assault rifles?

No. That wouldn't be Constitutional and would be overturned instantly.

Edited February 15 by Dahobbs

Scheiss Meister · February 15

All of these involuntary sacrifices to the gun god so that some people can continue to have their fantasies of murdering public officials that they don't like or anyone whom they consider "thugs". Fucking disgusting.

texashorne · February 15

2 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

They will ban championship parades before they will do anything about the guns.

The Dallas Cowboys did this 27 years ago and its working

conVINCEd · February 15

The championship parade dynamic is a weird one. Shit gets out of hand at these things. I skipped school to go to the Cowboys parade in 93 and that was an eye opener. It starts out with some harmless shenanigans, and the next thing you know there are trash cans getting thrown through storefront windows and cars getting lit on fire. This is in no way a defense of what happened in KC, but sports celebrations bring out the worst in people, on what should be a happy day.

Pasken · February 15

33 minutes ago, landman said:

Big part of the problem, but not the only ones. Couldn't the President just issue an executive order banning assault rifles?

Of course not. That's not how government works. The only way to fix it is for congress to pass constitutional amendments with super majorities and for states to adopt or to gain a majority on the supreme court. The Heler decision takes the ability away from almost everyone to actually fix the problem.

Edited February 15 by Pasken

Js1 · February 15

Why doesn't the President just go back in time and convince the Founding Fathers to re-word the Second Amendment?

WHERE IS JOE BIDEN'S TIME MACHINE? WHERE IS IT???

royiv · February 15

3 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

What information do you have to suggest it's "gangster?

We all know what he meant.

Js1 · February 15

6 minutes ago, royiv said:

We all know what he meant.

Eskimohorn · February 15

Of course not. That's not how government works. The only way to fix it is for congress to pass constitutional amendments with super majorities and for states to adopt or to gain a majority on the supreme court. The Heler decision takes the ability away from almost everyone to actually fix the problem.

Or, we get judges on the supreme court who correctly (or more correctly) interpret the 2nd amendment as it was for 200 years. We banned the shit out of weapons of war at the state and federal level for the longest time.

The 2nd amendment permitted communities to raise militias with adequate arms without obstruction from a central government. Militias are codified in the Constitution, even to repel armed insurrections when called. The federalist papers outlined this need, so citizens could defend themselves from “Natives, Foreign Invaders, and Armed Factions.”

But, militias were made irrelevant with the need for a professional standing army and reserve guards. Alas, the right wingers have redefined this right as a right to open carry and get any weapon, whether the person is properly trained and/or willing to serve to protect their community and be accountable.

YGIFS · February 15

3 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

Made everyone who attends the parade have to show ID and have a background check. Problem solved…

Sir, you can't come into the parade area.

"Wait? Why the hell not?"

You didn't pass a mental health check.

"What the fuck are you talking about? Why am I mentally unfit to attend this parade, dammit?"

Well, for starters. It's a 9:00a on a Wednesday and you're a grown man wearing an NFL jersey and completely intoxicated. It's 25 degrees outside, you're wearing shorts and I can see your genitals through your open zippper.

"But I have this handgun."

Well c'mon the fuck on in, enjoy sir!

Edited February 15 by YGIFS

Js1 · February 15

The only thing you should be armed with at a fucking sports parade is a White Claw to throw at some fat ass piece of shit.

yoladu · February 15

14 hours ago, markstanco said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/zombie-knives-be-banned-england-wales-september-2024-01-24/

England and Whales gets it. It’s the tool not the person.

no, the problem is Democrats and democratically controlled cities - Texags

AbeFroman · February 15

13 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

Another one

C-Man · February 15

I guess this could go here: https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/15/us/school-shooting-threat-arrest-ontario-california/index.html

Student faces attempted murder charges in an alleged plot to carry out school shooting after classmate raised concerns

Quote

A high school student in California was arrested and is facing attempted murder charges in a plot to carry out a shooting on campus that was uncovered after a classmate expressed concerns the teen was “fixated on school shootings and had access to weapons,” police said.

Sebastian Villasenor, 18, was arrested Saturday and at his home investigators found seven rifles, two revolvers, a handgun and a shotgun, along with more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition, Ontario Police Chief Mike Lorenz said at a news conference Wednesday.

Villasenor had five intended victims – all students – and was considering a sixth, Lorenz said. The five intended victims were girls, according to a criminal complaint.

Villasenor “had every intention of carrying out a school shooting,” Lorenz said. He “was obsessed with school shootings and police response times. He researched tactical supplies and was in the process of choosing a specific date.”

Villasenor is charged with one count of attempted criminal threats and five counts of attempted murder, according to the complaint and a news release from the San Bernardino County District Attorney’s Office.

CNN is working to identify Villasenor’s legal representation. He is scheduled to be arraigned Thursday, the district attorney’s office said. He is being held without bail, jail records show.

The investigation began February 8 when officials from Ontario Christian High School contacted police after a student reported concerns about a classmate, Lorenz said. Ontario is about 40 miles east of Los Angeles.

“This student bravely … shared their fear that they and others could be harmed by Villasenor,” the police chief said. “That student saved lives, spared families from losing their children, and the community from being devastated from a senseless act of violence.”

Ben Dykhouse, principal of the private school, said he was grateful the student was “brave enough to say something when they saw something that was off.”

In regards to a potential motive, police determined through interviews Villasenor “was not bullied or harassed. He did, however, have difficulties in forming relationships with other students and in his social interactions.”

Investigators believe Villasenor was planning to carry out the shooting sometime around April 20, which is the 25th anniversary of the Columbine shooting. The teen “had an obsession” with the 1999 shooting at a Colorado high school, which left 13 people dead, Lorenz said.

“April 20 this year happens to be on a weekend, so we believe it was going to be some time around that time frame,” the chief said.

The news conference announcing the arrest was held the same day survivors and victims’ loved ones were marking six years since a student opened fire at Parkland High School in Florida, killing 17 people and wounding 17 others. As of last week, there have been at least eight shootings on K-12 campuses in the US in 2024, according to a CNN analysis, following at least 52 shootings last year.

As the pace of campus violence remains high, prosecutors are testing the limits of who can be held responsible when a student opens fire on classmates, including the recent conviction of Jennifer Crumbley on involuntary manslaughter charges in Michigan after her son killed four students in a 2021 shooting at Oxford High School.

speed817 · February 15

8 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I guess this could go here: https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/15/us/school-shooting-threat-arrest-ontario-california/index.html

Student faces attempted murder charges in an alleged plot to carry out school shooting after classmate raised concerns

Pescado_Rojo · February 15

2 hours ago, Js1 said:

Why doesn't the President just go back in time and convince the Founding Fathers to re-word the Second Amendment?

WHERE IS JOE BIDEN'S TIME MACHINE? WHERE IS IT???

Joe is so old he was there when they wrote it.

DaysOff · February 15

No. That wouldn't be Constitutional and would be overturned instantly.

Shall not infringed means no new gun laws ever libtards.

4th&Five · February 15

Pam Cummings · February 15

I would like to see gun owners required to participate in monthly training and safety classes. I believe that this would give gun owners more respect for the damage these tools can do, plus education is never a bad thing.

C-Man · February 15

Pasken · February 15

3 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

I would like to see gun owners required to participate in monthly training and safety classes. I believe that this would give gun owners more respect for the damage these tools can do, plus education is never a bad thing.

I'm sure the libertarians would love that.

aggie08 · February 15

5 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I've been assured that fortifying our schools would make a huge difference.

Nice Guy Eddie · February 15

I'm tired of mentally ill and/or angry people easily getting their hands on guns. I'm tired of irresponsible parents/relatives giving guns to their family members who cannot get guns on their own. I'm tired of irresponsible gun owners treating the world like it's the OK Corral.

Pam Cummings · February 15

I wonder how many "bad guys" get firearms due to lazy legal gun owners leaving their firearm in a dipshitted place like sitting in a vehicle and it gets stolen.

Steamboat1874 · February 15

If you want a safe victory parade the solution is simple.

Issue everyone a gun when they show up.

Problem solved.

Dahobbs · February 15

13 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I'm tired of mentally ill and/or angry people easily getting their hands on guns. I'm tired of irresponsible parents/relatives giving guns to their family members who cannot get guns on their own. I'm tired of irresponsible gun owners treating the world like it's the OK Corral.

So, under current Supreme Court precedent, we can't actually create any new restrictions on gun ownership. But, we could make a new federal cause of action that applied strict liability to gun manufacturers and sellers for criminal conduct using their manufactured/sold firearms. Something like that could be really effective I think AND I'm pretty sure would pass constitutional muster (at least until Calvinball).

fattyflattie · February 15

48 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Joe is so old he was there when they wrote it.

Damnit. I was trying to get this together and you beat me.

Pasken · February 15

2 hours ago, Eskimohorn said:

Or, we get judges on the supreme court who correctly (or more correctly) interpret the 2nd amendment as it was for 200 years. We banned the shit out of weapons of war at the state and federal level for the longest time.

The 2nd amendment permitted communities to raise militias with adequate arms without obstruction from a central government. Militias are codified in the Constitution, even to repel armed insurrections when called. The federalist papers outlined this need, so citizens could defend themselves from “Natives, Foreign Invaders, and Armed Factions.”

But, militias were made irrelevant with the need for a professional standing army and reserve guards. Alas, the right wingers have redefined this right as a right to open carry and get any weapon, whether the person is properly trained and/or willing to serve to protect their community and be accountable.

the "Or we get" is doing a lot of work there. You "get" judges when they die, retire or you blackmail them into retirement. I don't know how you can adjust that without appearing to be especially political with the courts. FDR tried to stack the courts but he was rebuffed and he was a really popular POTUS.

Maybe you could get some consensus around putting term limits on SCOTUS judges which would mean every president could start their term by appointing 2 judges but I think you would run the risk of that getting struck down by SCOTUS which would put everyone in an awkward bind.

Red Five · February 15

21 minutes ago, Steamboat1874 said:

If you want a safe victory parade the solution is simple.

Issue everyone a gun when they show up.

Problem solved.

If the issue is that there aren't yet enough guns everywhere to prevent mass shootings, why don't they just pass out guns everywhere? Go out to eat, collect your gun at the door (provided you don't have one already, of course). Same with sporting events, schools, etc. The logic is sound, IMO.

C-Man · February 15

On 12/11/2023 at 10:48 AM, C-Man said:

Y'all are gonna love this story. One of my wife's friends has been staying with us off-and-on over the past 3-4 months as she extricates herself from a bad marriage. (Her husband is a decent enough former aggy Corps guy albeit a little on the strange side but he's got permanent brain damage from alcohol abuse that only became apparent just before their wedding. He's since fallen off the wagon in a big way, has taken two trips to rehab in the last 13 months, neither successful, as well as a drunken wreck in the neighborhood where he miraculously avoided a DWI. He's recently lost his sweet job with Morgan Stanley and is completely off the rails. I doubt he sees his 50th birthday. I think he's 47 or 48 now. He's got brain encephalopathy, etc.)

At any rate, he wants to cook dinner for our friend last night. He's had a string of good sober days in a row and planned to go to a sober living situation tomorrow. Our friend suspects he's been drinking by his texts but goes over there anyway. Immediately after arriving, she knows he's drunk, does a 180 and leaves. He gets pissed and starts blowing up her phone with calls and texts. At one point, he says he's going to Uber to a pawn shop to buy a gun and shoot himself in the head. Friend calls Dallas PD to do a wellness check after he sends a picture of some countertop with a Ruger pistol case on it. (Turns out he was at Academy.) Cops go by and he's not there.

FF to late in the evening and he calls me while I was showering for bed and follows up with four texts. Says he can't get ahold of her and asks me if I can just drop her by for a few mins so they can discuss something involving insurance. It's midnight, mind you. Not a fucking chance I'm doing that and I tell her. She again calls DPD, who goes by again. They wind up kicking in the back door and determine that he's fired at least one round inside the house and then jammed the gun by loading the clip/magazine backward.

They take the gun and our friend's husband for a 72-hour psych hold at Parkland. However, they say he's free to retrieve the gun when he gets out of there and is 'normal' again.

Long story short -- inebriated/troubled guy drives to Academy and purchases a handgun, which he brings home and discharges in his home all within a few hours. No telling what he's capable of in his agitated state, especially now that he seems to be realizing there's really zero chance our friend decides to go back to being his wife.

Update: He's dead, Jim. Dude was found dead in his bed last Thursday afternoon. Cause of death indeterminate at this time. Toxicology will be back in seven or eight weeks. He was served child protective papers back in early Jan from his first wife and our friend served him with divorce papers on Monday. Died at some point within the next 48 hours.

Steamboat1874 · February 15

3 minutes ago, Red Five said:

If the issue is that there aren't yet enough guns everywhere to prevent mass shootings, why don't they just pass out guns everywhere? Go out to eat, collect your gun at the door (provided you don't have one already, of course). Same with sporting events, schools, etc. The logic is sound, IMO.

This was also Archie Bunker's solution to all of the airplane hijackings back in the 70's so it has to be the solution.

Blotto · February 15

2 hours ago, C-Man said:

decent enough former aggy Corps guy

does not compute. He's been exhibiting signs of diminished mental capacity since at least his late teens/early twenties.

Edited February 15 by Blotto

'stache · February 15

20 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

So, under current Supreme Court precedent, we can't actually create any new restrictions on gun ownership. But, we could make a new federal cause of action that applied strict liability to gun manufacturers and sellers for criminal conduct using their manufactured/sold firearms. Something like that could be really effective I think AND I'm pretty sure would pass constitutional muster (at least until Calvinball).

It’s called original intent bro, and it’s super important. At the time, muskets were very unreliable and took a minute to load and fire, but they all could see the future and knew that eventually guns would be capable of mowing down dozens of people in a few seconds, and wanted to be sure than anyone could get one at Walmart. Hence no gun laws ever. It’s science.

Eskimohorn · February 15

the "Or we get" is doing a lot of work there. You "get" judges when they die, retire or you blackmail them into retirement. I don't know how you can adjust that without appearing to be especially political with the courts. FDR tried to stack the courts but he was rebuffed and he was a really popular POTUS.
Maybe you could get some consensus around putting term limits on SCOTUS judges which would mean every president could start their term by appointing 2 judges but I think you would run the risk of that getting struck down by SCOTUS which would put everyone in an awkward bind.

It would be far easier to have Congress use their authority to pack courts than repeal 2nd amendment. Or same difference.

bolverk · February 15

21 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Update: He's dead, Jim. Dude was found dead in his bed last Thursday afternoon. Cause of death indeterminate at this time. Toxicology will be back in seven or eight weeks. He was served child protective papers back in early Jan from his first wife and our friend served him with divorce papers on Monday. Died at some point within the next 48 hours.

Sorry he succumbed to his addiction, but glad he didn't take anyone with him.

mchookem · February 15

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

he forgot Walmart and grocery store.

Edited February 15 by mchookem

Huckleberry · February 15

54 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

It would be far easier to have Congress use their authority to pack courts than repeal 2nd amendment. Or same difference.

But it's not the right thing to do. The language of the 2nd Amendment in no way limits protected firearm use to militias. It basically says in modern message board English "Because access to firearms is required to organize a militia and being able to organize a militia is so fucking important, you can't make any laws limiting access to firearms."

Yes it's antiquated as hell and should be repealed, but that's what it says.

Satchel · February 15

20 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

But it's not the right thing to do. The language of the 2nd Amendment in no way limits protected firearm use to militias. It basically says in modern message board English "Because access to firearms is required to organize a militia and being able to organize a militia is so fucking important, you can't make any laws limiting access to firearms."

Yes it's antiquated as hell and should be repealed, but that's what it says.

That’s what many thinks it means.

elfenix · February 15

2 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

I would like to see gun owners required to participate in monthly training and safety classes. I believe that this would give gun owners more respect for the damage these tools can do, plus education is never a bad thing.

A militia act for the 21st century.

NeverMarryAStripper · February 15

28 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

But it's not the right thing to do. The language of the 2nd Amendment in no way limits protected firearm use to militias. It basically says in modern message board English "Because access to firearms is required to organize a militia and being able to organize a militia is so fucking important, you can't make any laws limiting access to firearms."

Yes it's antiquated as hell and should be repealed, but that's what it says.

You kind of skipped over the “well regulated” part

TexEx15 · February 15

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Damnit. I was trying to get this together and you beat me.

That would be awesome if true. He can clarify the author’s intent because it clearly wasn’t the bullshit we are dealing with today.

Huckleberry · February 15

16 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

You kind of skipped over the “well regulated” part

Insert it in my modem language translation and that has zero effect on the meaning. The controlling clause is the part where no law can be made. The preceding is simply a justification. It's the same as the below:

Reproduction of the species being necessary to the continuation of society, the right to have sex shall not be infringed.

That says no laws can be made infringing on our right to have sex. It does not say the sex has to be for the purpose of reproduction. The above amendment would also be a bad one needing to be repealed, by the way.

C-Man · February 15

1 hour ago, mchookem said:

he forgot Walmart and grocery store.

At the combination football championship parade and grocery store.

Blotto · February 15

2 hours ago, Eskimohorn said:

It would be far easier to have Congress use their authority to pack courts than repeal 2nd amendment. Or same difference.

packing the courts seems like a poorly thought out approach as it will just become an arms race as each dsyfunctional party has the opportunity to swing things back in their favor. We'll wind up with 300 partisan fucksticks on the bench. I'd much prefer 8 year term limits so human waste like Thomas gets cycled out and other justices like RGB dont hang on through their late 80's. Its not like there is a shortage of lawyers in this country to cycle through there.

Fastbreak · February 15

You kind of skipped over the “well regulated” part

Militia is defined in the constitution as a group well abled “men” organized and controlled by congress.

It was never meant to be a free for all of gun ownership.

Why not change the law to if you buy a gun, you are automatically enrolled in your state militia (national guard), where you must report for training and service within 30 days.

That would be more inline with how it was intended.

NeverMarryAStripper · February 15

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

Insert it in my modem language translation and that has zero effect on the meaning. The controlling clause is the part where no law can be made. The preceding is simply a justification. It's the same as the below:

Reproduction of the species being necessary to the continuation of society, the right to have sex shall not be infringed.

That says no laws can be made infringing on our right to have sex. It does not say the sex has to be for the purpose of reproduction. The above amendment would also be a bad one needing to be repealed, by the way.

That was certainly the Supreme Court's interpretation in DC v. Heller, but that doesn't mean that historically, all Justices would have agreed with that interpretation. Warren Burger certainly wouldn't have when he wrote "At the time of the Bill of Rights, people were apprehensive about the new national government presented to them, and this helps explain the language and purpose of the Second Amendment. It guarantees, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The need for a State militia was the predicate of the "right" guarantee, so as to protect the security of the State. Today, of course, the State militia serves a different purpose. A huge national defense establishment has assumed the role of the militia of 200 years ago". With the repeal of Roe v. Wade, we saw how the makeup of the Supreme Court can drastically alter its interpretation of the Constitution. We may, in time, see a Supreme Court that is willing to adopt a collective rights interpretation of the Second Amendment more in line with the Court's previous ruling in United States v. Miller.

As to your sex amendment example, I think it is more than likely that the current Supreme Court would interpret that amendment to mean that an individual's right to have sex was predicated on their intent to reproduce rather than any unfettered right to have sex. They certainly wouldn't interpret it to mean that sex between same-sex partners was an individual right guaranteed under the Constitution.

Edited February 15 by NeverMarryAStripper

MirrOlure · February 15

[mention=1806]MirrOlure[/mention] says the solution is just to prevent "gangsters" from attending those events.

Apparently, that would have been effective

yoladu · February 15

24 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

Militia is defined in the constitution as a group well abled “men” organized and controlled by congress.

It was never meant to be a free for all of gun ownership.

Why not change the law to if you buy a gun, you are automatically enrolled in your state militia (national guard), where you must report for training and service within 30 days.

That would be more inline with how it was intended.

Galileo had better odds.

.

Edited February 15 by yoladu

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