Mass Shootings

[David Dennison 18852]

10 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And they have the easiest access to guns in the world.  Couple drugs with kids who are already a bundle of raging hormones, and access to guns and it's a problem.

Guns are a very big part of the problem.

[HenryJames 66040]

Kids in other countries apparently don’t take drugs.

[jimmyjazz 45896]

So leading expert on illicit gun sales Ollie North comes out of left field with some stupid theory about ADHD drugs and school shootings, and suddenly the gun nuts are all over it as the cause.  

[HenryJames 66040]

5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

So leading expert on illicit gun sales Ollie North comes out of left field with some stupid theory about ADHD drugs and school shootings, and suddenly the gun nuts are all over it as the cause.  

Also too many doors and because teenage girls won’t fuck sociopaths.

[Neonmoon 38129]

People who think “fixing” the mental health system will stop people from shooting up schools don’t know shit about mental health, citizens rights in regards to mental health, or the system in general. 

The mental health system does need fixing. That’s a fact. There are seriously ill people who will never be able to function in society. Psych Hospitals need to be brought back. 

There is still a stigma around mental health, and to be honest, there might always be, but the majority of the population has a mental health issues or knows someone who does. 

Also, you can’t throw someone away and lock the key. Today an emergency hold, most are only 72 hours (TX is 48), only will happen when you can prove someone is a danger to themselves or others and they require a court order.  And not just any person can initiate this process, most states require a police officer, or physician, or psychologist. 

Most of these angry teen school shooters. How do you lock them up? Let’s say you see them post a disturbing post? Do you send them to therapy? Okay, fine. That doesn’t take them off the streets. Also, many people who go to therapy don’t get better. Many don’t take their meds. Some can still function in society though. And one day they snap. What know. 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for getting more people more mental health care but it won’t stop school shootings and anyone who is saying this is trying to get the focus away from guns 

[Brian Fantana 6683]

5 hours ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Dan Patrick doing a bang up job of making Texas leadership look like backwards thinking simpletons. 

Well. They are.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

11 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

People who think “fixing” the mental health system will stop people from shooting up schools don’t know shit about mental health, citizens rights in regards to mental health, or the system in general. 

The mental health system does need fixing. That’s a fact. There are seriously ill people who will never be able to function in society. Psych Hospitals need to be brought back. 

There is still a stigma around mental health, and to be honest, there might always be, but the majority of the population has a mental health issues or knows someone who does. 

Also, you can’t throw someone away and lock the key. Today an emergency hold, most are only 72 hours (TX is 48), only will happen when you can prove someone is a danger to themselves or others and they require a court order.  And not just any person can initiate this process, most states require a police officer, or physician, or psychologist. 

Most of these angry teen school shooters. How do you lock them up? Let’s say you see them post a disturbing post? Do you send them to therapy? Okay, fine. That doesn’t take them off the streets. Also, many people who go to therapy don’t get better. Many don’t take their meds. Some can still function in society though. And one day they snap. What know. 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for getting more people more mental health care but it won’t stop school shootings and anyone who is saying this is trying to get the focus away from guns 

Looking at mental health through the prism of treatment or some sort of process to cure an ill is the not what I’m talking about.

 I’m talking about increasing awareness of the importance of mental health and talking/listening to one another about things that trouble them.

If we treated mental health and wellness education like we do physical education in schools, we’d have fewer isolated and disturbed individuals in society .  

We keep looking at school shootings through the wrong lens.  It has little to do with security or guns.  It’s only a symptom of a much larger cultural problem we are too afraid to acknowledge and confront.

Everyone needs periodic mental health exercises just like everyone needs physical exercise.

We have done a great job of completing ignoring the value of meaningful interactions and conversations as they relate to mental health and wellness.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[krutov 18]

2 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Kids in other countries apparently don’t take drugs.

or have access to shotguns.

[Jive Turkey 12594]

Dan Patrick: teachers are part of a “well-run militia.”  Was that in the Federalist Papers?

 

Edited May 20, 2018 by Jive Turkey

[GW Hayduke 1953]

5 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

Dan Patrick: teachers are part of a “well-run militia.”  Was that in the Federalist Papers?

 

Its almost like words don't have any meaning sometimes.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Maybe Texas should secede.  

America would be a lot smarter without the aggy population.

[sugar 100]

Always something else other than guns to blame.

This is why the NRA is evil incarnate.

[HtownHorn 14674]

40 minutes ago, sugar said:

Always something else other than guns to blame.

This is why the NRA is evil incarnate.

Cars, knives, and pvc pipe can be just as lethal as a gun. I bet you give 2 shits about them.

[krutov 18]

51 minutes ago, sugar said:

Always something else other than guns to blame.

This is why the NRA is evil incarnate.

 

how about rental vans?  and pressure cookers?  and pipes?

 

can you place these on the evilness spectrum for me.

[Neonmoon 38129]

12 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Cars, knives, and pvc pipe can be just as lethal as a gun. I bet you give 2 shits about them.

Name the last time someone killed 10 kids at school with a Car, Knife or PVC pipe. 

I will wait...

[David Dennison 18852]

12 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Cars, knives, and pvc pipe can be just as lethal as a gun. I bet you give 2 shits about them.

They sure can be. But a gun is much more lethal than all of them.

 

[krutov 18]

57 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Maybe Texas should secede.  

America would be a lot smarter without the aggy population.

it's funny, i have no interest in football at all.  i started reading shaggy years ago because of the intelligence of posters here.   then i started browsing the cloak room and at first it was the same.  it was great to see a reasoned debate and understand how americans of both sides think.  for a while i was coming by all the time.

then you came along.  now i come to this place hardly at all.  it's a mediocre echo chamber of hysterical trolling idiots led by you, the pied piper of paranoid delusional partisan hackery.  i keep coming back hoping the sane people have returned, but nope.   just you and sugar and dave dennison and a bunch of guys like brisket who have shit themselves with your assistance and now help you spread feces on the wall.

which is to say you are the most aggie thing about surly horns.  and you've dragged everyone down with you.

[David Dennison 18852]

1 minute ago, krutov said:

it's funny, i have no interest in football at all.  i started reading shaggy years ago because of the intelligence of posters here.   then i started browsing the cloak room and at first it was the same.  it was great to see a reasoned debate and understand how americans of both sides think.  for a while i was coming by all the time.

then you came along.  now i come to this place hardly at all.  it's a mediocre echo chamber of hysterical trolling idiots led by you, the pied piper of paranoid delusional partisan hackery.  i keep coming back hoping the sane people have returned, but nope.   just you and sugar and dave dennison and a bunch of guys like brisket who have shit themselves with your assistance and now help you spread feces on the wall.

which is to say you are the most aggie thing about surly horns.  and you've dragged everyone down with you.

Trump is aggy.

 

[krutov 18]

6 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Name the last time someone killed 10 kids at school with a Car, Knife or PVC pipe. 

I will wait...

what does that question have to do with my comment or the post i commented on?

i'll wait.

 

 

 

 

[krutov 18]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Trump is aggy.

 

nope.  trump is new york city. 

you, on the other hand, are one of the most dislikable disingenous posters i have ever seen on a message board.  hugo at least has some charisma.  you're such an odiious little swot that the very fact you align yourself against trump makes reasonable people who read your posts reconsider their skepticism of trump.

 

[T-dog 202]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

People who think “fixing” the mental health system will stop people from shooting up schools don’t know shit about mental health, citizens rights in regards to mental health, or the system in general. 

The mental health system does need fixing. That’s a fact. There are seriously ill people who will never be able to function in society. Psych Hospitals need to be brought back. 

There is still a stigma around mental health, and to be honest, there might always be, but the majority of the population has a mental health issues or knows someone who does. 

Also, you can’t throw someone away and lock the key. Today an emergency hold, most are only 72 hours (TX is 48), only will happen when you can prove someone is a danger to themselves or others and they require a court order.  And not just any person can initiate this process, most states require a police officer, or physician, or psychologist. 

Most of these angry teen school shooters. How do you lock them up? Let’s say you see them post a disturbing post? Do you send them to therapy? Okay, fine. That doesn’t take them off the streets. Also, many people who go to therapy don’t get better. Many don’t take their meds. Some can still function in society though. And one day they snap. What know. 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for getting more people more mental health care but it won’t stop school shootings and anyone who is saying this is trying to get the focus away from guns 

I'm not talking about locking people away per se. I'm talking about giving troubled kids another outlet to tackle their issues before they erupt. 

The problem about this whole debate is that it is way too emotional. As soon as somebody talks about gun control people are going to scream "dont take away muh guns"/ "guns don't kill people, people do", as soon as somebody is talking about anything else people are going to scream that it's a gun issue. But the thing is, mass shootings are only a symptom of a disease that is brewing under the skin of our society. Mass shootings aren't there only because there are too many guns, and mass shootings aren't there only because there are too many teens that have some problems. Most of those shooters don't have some "hard" mental illness like schizophrenia, but rather have experienced stuff that has brought them to the point where they want to take revenge and end their own lives.

The thing is, gun control will only get you so far; yes, gun control will be able to limit the number of school shootings and likely the number of deaths, but it does not solve the real problem. Potentially other weapons will be used, for example in Europe there were a lot of Islamic terror attack with cars/trucks since weapons are more strictly regulated. Also you can access ingredients for some explosives legally. Gun control will limit mass shootings, but it does not solve the real problem that we have that a share of our population is feeling so left out that they are willing to turn on society. This, you can only fix by taking care of people, and fighting mental illness is one way to do it as a society as a whole. 

So sure, if you want the shootings to end, take away the guns. But don't be surprised if the next thing we are going to talk about is school bombings or school car attacks

[T-dog 202]

14 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Name the last time someone killed 10 kids at school with a Car, Knife or PVC pipe. 

I will wait...

Not a school, but you might want to read up on Nice, France

[David Dennison 18852]

4 minutes ago, krutov said:

nope.  trump is new york city. 

you, on the other hand, are one of the most dislikable disingenous posters i have ever seen on a message board.  hugo at least has some charisma.  you're such an odiious little swot that the very fact you align yourself against trump makes reasonable people who read your posts reconsider their skepticism of trump.

 

You'll be OK.

[krutov 18]

7 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You'll be OK.

true enough.  but you are going to suck forever.

[jimmyjazz 45896]

35 minutes ago, krutov said:

it's funny, i have no interest in football at all.  i started reading shaggy years ago because of the intelligence of posters here.   then i started browsing the cloak room and at first it was the same.  it was great to see a reasoned debate and understand how americans of both sides think.  for a while i was coming by all the time.

then you came along.  now i come to this place hardly at all.  it's a mediocre echo chamber of hysterical trolling idiots led by you, the pied piper of paranoid delusional partisan hackery.  i keep coming back hoping the sane people have returned, but nope.   just you and sugar and dave dennison and a bunch of guys like brisket who have shit themselves with your assistance and now help you spread feces on the wall.

which is to say you are the most aggie thing about surly horns.  and you've dragged everyone down with you.

LOL.  HUGO was the one who rendered the Cloak Room unreadable for you?

OK, Rush.

[krutov 18]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

LOL.  HUGO was the one who rendered the Cloak Room unreadable for you?

OK, Rush.

i realize you feel left out, but you're just not at his level.  hugo is a leader and a doer who has transformed this place.  you're just another interwebs forum troll.  a foot solider in the race to the bottom.

you gotta see it from my perspective.  you guys are a petri dish labelled "above average college educated white male americans discussing politics".  hugo is some kind of fungal spore that has contaminated my favourite plate and now all the specimens i used to enjoy observing are spinning around frantically bumping into each other and i can't make any useful observations.

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

41 minutes ago, krutov said:

what does that question have to do with my comment or the post i commented on?

i'll wait.

 

 

 

 

Are you HtownHorn?

[jimmyjazz 45896]

3 minutes ago, krutov said:

i realize you feel left out, but you're just not at his level.  hugo is a leader and a doer who has transformed this place.  you're just another interwebs forum troll.  a foot solider in the race to the bottom.

you gotta see it from my perspective.  you guys are a petri dish labelled "above average college educated white male americans discussing politics".  hugo is some kind of fungal spore that has contaminated my favourite plate and now all the specimens i used to enjoy observing are spinning around frantically bumping into each other and i can't make any useful observations.

Alrighty then.  Your own post contradicts itself, but thanks for the compliments.

[krutov 18]

5 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Are you HtownHorn?

not a sock.  just a long time shaggy lurker that is unlikely to lurk any longer so having some fun on the way out. 

i have nothing whatever to do with the state of texas.

 

[krutov 18]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Alrighty then.  Your own post contradicts itself, but thanks for the compliments.

and there are you confidently drawing a totally unsupportable inference.  i'm going to miss that about you.

[Buzzrock 14913]

I would vote and pay for anything that helps protect the kids. So I would support it. But considering there are probably more than double digit number of doors at any particular school, the cost will just be astronomical. I guess you could lock all the doors except one or two with the metal detectors. I’m sure the old Fire Marshall might not like that. Or the bars on the windows. Cameras should def be in all schools. 
 

That’s what the fence is for. Have as many doors as you like.

[Buzzrock 14913]

Seems like the solution is in stopping the maniacs from becoming homicidal maniacs. 
Instead of investing in metal detectors and security, invest in mental health professionals and make mental health education a required course like P.E. in middle school and high school.

How long will that take? How are you going to find and fix all of the people who might become school shooters?

I can tell you where all the schools are and where you can hire fencing contractors starting tomorrow. Could probably have a bunch of them done before school starts back up this fall.

What’s the downside to securing the schools?

[jimmyjazz 45896]

4 minutes ago, krutov said:

and there are you confidently drawing a totally unsupportable inference.  i'm going to miss that about you.

As we are going to miss your apparently over-inflated sense of self.

[Buzzrock 14913]

I mean, it's not hard to make existing doors fire exits that can't be opened from the outside. The hard part would be school campuses with several buildings that can only be accessed from outside. Even then you just put up a gate and once you are in the school compound you can travel freely between buildings. But of course the question is whether or not we want our kids to be going to school in a prison?

Why do people keep saying prison? A prison is a place designed to keep you in. A secure school/workplace is designed to keep criminal elements out. Like almost every Fortune 500 client site I visit. Do you think those people feel like they are working in a prison?

[tchookem 3900]

Not a school, but you might want to read up on Nice, France

A knife, a car, and a pipe walk into a bar...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[krutov 18]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

As we are going to miss your apparently over-inflated sense of self.

and there you go again.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I like the cut of this guy’s jib.

[jimmyjazz 45896]

Just now, krutov said:

and there you go again.

Yeppers!  Whee!!!

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

7 minutes ago, krutov said:

not a sock.  just a long time shaggy lurker that is unlikely to lurk any longer so having some fun on the way out. 

i have nothing whatever to do with the state of texas.

 

Okay, so when you asked "what does that question have to do with my comment or the post i commented on?" the answer is nothing. Nothing whatsoever. He wasn't talking to you, he was talking to HtownHorn. It had nothing to do with your comment nor the post on which you were commenting. 

Your wait is over. You can un-bunch your panties now. 

[GW Hayduke 1953]

1 hour ago, HtownHorn said:

Cars, knives, and pvc pipe can be just as lethal as a gun. I bet you give 2 shits about them.

You're the guy that was dishonest about the 2013 CDC report.

I give lots of shits about cars - and so does society.  We have a registration, inspection, licensing, and insurance systems. We have speed limits, drunk driving laws, and enforcement. We have an industry of engineers/planners dedicated to incorporate safety into roadway designs.  This is the type of multi-prong approach that society takes to minimize and mitigate harm.  We need to take a similar multi-prong approach to lowering our rate of firearm-related deaths.  

Your pcv pipe and knife examples are silly. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

7 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

What’s the downside to securing the schools?

You can only create the illusion the schools are safer.  Build all the fences, hire all the security guards, make the place a fortress but those kids are still going in and out every day. 

Still plenty of opportunities for a shooter to plan an effective attack.

But go ahead and make the parents and kids feel safer with better doors and locks.

 

[krutov 18]

and fyi, my hot take is the mass shooting thing is cultural.  it's not guns.  it's angry white boys (with hispanic background optional), much like most of the posters in this thread. 

you guys really ought to have more insight into why your high school social scene produces so many white male loner/losers who end up mass killing their classmates to make a statement.  it seems to me black guys don't do it, and girls don't do it.  both those groups have at least as good an access to guns as the shooters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[krutov 18]

7 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Okay, so when you asked "what does that question have to do with my comment or the post i commented on?" the answer is nothing. Nothing whatsoever. He wasn't talking to you, he was talking to HtownHorn. It had nothing to do with your comment nor the post on which you were commenting. 

Your wait is over. You can un-bunch your panties now. 

right up to the image of my panties being bunched, that was a helpful post, so thanks.  it's not like i know every single one of you fuckers and your obscure histories.

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

11 minutes ago, tchookem said:

A knife, a car, and a pipe walk into a bar...
 

No shots were served. 

[Brian Fantana 6683]

You seem really concerned.

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

1 minute ago, krutov said:

right up to the image of my panties being bunched, that was a helpful post, so thanks.  it's not like i know every single one of you fuckers and your obscure histories.

The username in the quoted text of his post should've been a dead giveaway. 

[Neonmoon 38129]

1 hour ago, T-dog said:

Not a school, but you might want to read up on Nice, France

Hence why I said school. 

Just trying to protect kids at school first. Then we can worry about public crowds. 

[krutov 18]

3 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

The username in the quoted text of his post should've been a dead giveaway. 

ok i got it eventually.  either i missed that or he edited the quote in afterwards.  most likely my bad.

[T-dog 202]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

Hence why I said school. 

Just trying to protect kids at school first. Then we can worry about public crowds. 

As I said, right now you take guns because they are the most convenient solution. If you wouldn't have guns, you'd take something else. Hence the example from a country where guns are more regulated than in the US

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

13 minutes ago, krutov said:

it seems to me black guys don't do it, and girls don't do it.  both those groups have at least as good an access to guns as the shooters.

Most of the white boys that do these mass shootings are suicidal.  They want to die.  Black people are far less suicidal than whites on the whole and I have my own theories on that as well.

I also think hormonal/sexual frustration plays a part in it too which helps explains why these shooters are almost always males.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz