Mass Shootings

[4th&Five 41,575]

 

[cactusflinthead 27,601]

@fattyflattie you ever read the regs on being a gun owner in Canada?

[Beau Vine 54,346]

 

[YGIFS 19,452]

Jesus Ted, your timing continues to be as bad as Heidi's "I can't, I'm pre-menopausal since 2006" march.

[Sawbonz 27,582]

Didn’t that bank have doors?

[NWBuck 8,579]

4 hours ago, C-Man said:

Shooter was a former HS small-town basketball star in Indiana, who apparently suffered enough concussions in middle/high school that he wore a helmet in basketball games.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/louisville-bank-massacre-suspect-idd-as-ex-varsity-star-connor-sturgeon

 

Quote

A former friend and teammate of Sturgeon’s from Floyd Central High School in Floyds Knobs, Indiana, described Sturgeon to The Daily Beast as “Mr. Floyd Central.” Sturgeon was smart, popular, and a star athlete in high school track, football, and basketball, he said.

[Sawbonz 27,582]

Sounds like a schizophrenic break. Right age. If only there were some way to keep guns away from the mentally ill

[fattyflattie 4,638]

1 hour ago, cactusflinthead said:

@fattyflattie you ever read the regs on being a gun owner in Canada?

I did, a couple of times the day you sent it.  I don't remember anything remarkably unreasonable, on the marco slides I saw.  If there's more to it, which I would assume could be possible because this was 35000' view slides, I'm not sure. But nothing unreasonable that I recall.  You're not going to find too many gun enthusiasts that can afford things like classes complain.  Even insurance, probably.  There's ALOT of people hung up on a registry, but I've never really understood that one.  If you're not doing F2F sales, the govt knows what you got. And if you have any NFT items, they're registered anyhow.   I think the govt could go 11!commie1!1 and fix the safe storage in a couple of years, tops.  There's lots of things that can be done to lessen the killing even before "removing any rights", but I've always maintained that.  

[Superhero 8,833]

4 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

20 schools kids were slaughtered and Americans didn’t do shit. 

Things won’t change until people start killing Congressman’s kids, and even then our stupid country probably won’t do shit. The average citizens needs to start shaming their friends and family for owning guns, but most people aren’t willing to destroy their social circles. There are threads on this site where people jerk off to their toy guns. How many times are they challenged? Confronted? People are unwilling to rock the boat. 

So no, nothing ever will change. Send your kids to school in Canada 

Nothing will change until old white people get mass murdered by [insert your non-white race here] animals. 

[956 Worldwide 34,746]

5 hours ago, SquishMitten said:

You might be on to something. Let’s say we either keep HS football OR we keep nearly unrestricted access to guns. I’d honestly be curious how that would shake out if people were forced to choose.

We don’t know if this is concussions or mental illness or what. We do know that a good chunk of the elected GOP would rather lock up a mentally ill person who hasn’t done anything than make it harder for said person to get a gun. In their world, “bear arms” trumps “life and liberty” every time. 
 

(Yes, I know they’re different documents and there’s no right to “life and liberty” in the BoR, it’s a rhetorical device chuckleheads). 

[BrickHorn 18,262]

7 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

We don’t know if this is concussions or mental illness or what. We do know that a good chunk of the elected GOP would rather lock up a mentally ill person who hasn’t done anything

The GOP doesn’t want to do anything other than distract from the real issue. “Mental illness” is a rhetorical smokebomb that Republicans use to escape from losing arguments. They don’t intend to ever do anything about the mental illness problem. (Although if they ever did, their solution would be what you suspect.)

Edited April 11, 2023 by BrickHorn

[Bullneck 19,196]

[WhatTheBuck 28,795]

Guess again, Dave. 

[C-Man 27,247]

1 hour ago, Bullneck said:

 

18 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Guess again, Dave. 

Just read some of the responses to that on Twitter.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,469]

3 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

 The average citizens needs to start shaming their friends and family for owning guns,

I completely disagree with this for two reasons 1) I own five guns, two of which were given to me by my father. I'll never give them up.  2) it's likely to result in a desire for folks to own/stockpile more guns

[Captainant 27,722]

13 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

I completely disagree with this for two reasons 1) I own five guns, two of which were given to me by my father. I'll never give them up.  2) it's likely to result in a desire for folks to own/stockpile more guns

They've already been stockpiling as hard as they can. Been doing it since OBUMMER. Not worth considering as a factor, IMO. 

[Neonmoon 38,130]

15 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

I completely disagree with this for two reasons 1) I own five guns, two of which were given to me by my father. I'll never give them up.  2) it's likely to result in a desire for folks to own/stockpile more guns

1. You don’t need a gun to remind yourself of your father. 
2. If your friends and family shame you for owning guns, and your reaction is to buy more guns. You are a child. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,795]

Don’t shame them or they’ll buy more guns. Also, don’t compliment them or they’ll buy more guns. If you don’t say anything, they’ll buy more guns. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26,521]

14 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Things won’t change until people start killing Congressman’s kids, and even then our stupid country probably won’t do shit

They wouldn't do anything. A crazed man shot up the congressional GOP baseball practice a few years ago. Steve Scalise was shot through the hips and nearly bled to death. One of Roger Williams staff was shot.
The shooter had been increasingly angry to the point of derangement about politics over a period of years and had recently been warned by cops not to shoot guns in the neighborhood. He also had a violent criminal record, both for domestic violence, child abuse AND pulling guns on people. 

You would think that Steve Scalise and Roger Williams would have noticed that the shooter was in legal possession of firearms and considered whether an obviously violent and unstable person should have access to guns, and whether they could support policy tools that reduce access to weapons by violent unstable criminals. Nope, they were just glad they had an armed security detail and ultimately chalked the whole thing up to radical leftist terrorism.

Mass shootings are just our system working as designed.

[SquishMitten 10,425]

12 hours ago, Bookman said:

Why do you think he had any real choice?

Right? That Soros money was just too much to pass up.

[HamsterHookah 112]

10 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Sounds like a schizophrenic break. Right age. If only there were some way to keep guns away from the mentally ill

huh?

[Bozo_Casanova 26,521]

1 hour ago, BrickHorn said:

The GOP doesn’t want to do anything other than distract from the real issue. “Mental illness” is a rhetorical smokebomb that Republicans use to escape from losing arguments. They don’t intend to ever do anything about the mental illness problem. (Although if they ever did, their solution would be what you suspect.)

In fairness, "gun control" is mostly a rhetorical smokebomb, because Democrats aren't going to do much about the mental illness problem either. 

It's like Austin's homeless debate - on one side have you have the obscene cruelty of people who think banning homelessness is a real solution, and on the other hand you have the obscene cruelty of those who think letting a human being sleep on the sidewalk in a puddle of their own piss is a kindness. 

[Sawbonz 27,582]

9 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

huh?

What?

[HamsterHookah 112]

Just now, Sawbonz said:

What?

Que?

[Sawbonz 27,582]

Just now, HamsterHookah said:

Que?

Exactly 

[BrickHorn 18,262]

6 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

In fairness, "gun control" is mostly a rhetorical smokebomb, because Democrats aren't going to do much about the mental illness problem either. 

Thats a completely different point. Democrats have attempted their proposed solution (gun control measures) and have been opposed by Republicans on that front.

By contrast, Republicans invoke mental health purely as a smokescreen - it’s not a problem they have any desire to address. They just throw out meaningless words and catchphrases to end or sidetrack the discussion. 

The idea that Democrats are equally to blame because they haven’t attempted to fix gun violence by addressing the Republicans’ preferred pretext is just complete bullshit. Democrats have tried to fix the problem by working on what they believe is the most effective solution. It’s not their job to also fight Republicans to implement the Republicans’ disingenuous policy distraction for them, too.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,521]

7 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Thats a completely different point. Democrats have attempted their proposed solution (gun control measures) and have been opposed by Republicans on that front.

By contrast, Republicans invoke mental health purely as a smokescreen - it’s not a problem they have any desire to address. They just throw out meaningless words and catchphrases to end or sidetrack the discussion. 

The idea that Democrats are equally to blame because they haven’t attempted to fix gun violence by addressing the Republicans’ preferred pretext is just complete bullshit. Democrats have tried to fix the problem by working on what they believe is the most effective solution. It’s not their job to also fight Republicans to implement the Republicans’ disingenuous policy distraction for them, too.

Let's not pretend that Democrats have proposed meaningful, rational, comprehensive reform that could put a majority together, because that's not true. And I don't believe the bolded part above -  that they actually believe what has been proposed would be the most effective solution or set of solutions.  I'm not saying that Republicans are acting in good faith. They aren't. But Democrats aren't either, broadly speaking. 

EDIT: and for the record, I 100% disagree with your last sentence. Mental health shouldn't be the Republicans problem to solve, and ignoring it is a HUGE component of the Democrats failure as a national party. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Bozo_Casanova

[hookemATL 11,825]

23 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

huh?

His age at the time of these acts tracks with the typical/accepted timeline when schizophrenia can emerge/manifest in young adults. 
 

I am not a doctor, but the voices in my head that are doctors told me that was true. 

[TexArcher 38,001]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Let's not pretend that Democrats have proposed meaningful, rational, comprehensive reform that could put a majority together, because that's not true.

You mean like the assault weapons ban that we had in place 25 years ago?

[HamsterHookah 112]

Just now, hookemATL said:

His age at the time of these acts tracks with the typical/accepted timeline when schizophrenia can emerge/manifest in young adults. 
 

I am not a doctor, but the voices in my head that are doctors told me that was true. 

I read somewhere that this guy had no legal record or medical alerts and was generally a regular guy who didn't raise alarms with neighbors, etc. Short of pre-crime and thought police, how can you keep guns away (in the current status quo) from someone who is mentally ill but hasn't been flagged as it yet?

That was my questioning response to sawbonz as a response to his rhetorical question.

[hookemATL 11,825]

1 minute ago, HamsterHookah said:

 how can you keep guns away (in the current status quo) from someone who is mentally ill but hasn't been flagged as it yet?

 

First you think about it.  Then you pray about it.

Then nothing happens and more people die.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,521]

4 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

You mean like the assault weapons ban that we had in place 25 years ago?

Different time, different set of facts on the ground now. A fine symbolic gesture, though. Should provide material for much self-congratulation.  

[Gap03 3,310]

3 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

I read somewhere that this guy had no legal record or medical alerts and was generally a regular guy who didn't raise alarms with neighbors, etc. Short of pre-crime and thought police, how can you keep guns away (in the current status quo) from someone who is mentally ill but hasn't been flagged as it yet?

That was my questioning response to sawbonz as a response to his rhetorical question.

Well, it would seem that he had so many concussions as an athlete that he wore a helmet when playing basketball.  Given the correlation between CTE and impulsive / aggressive / violent behavior, maybe we could require a bit higher threshold before we let someone with this history buy a gun - especially an AR-15?

 

[YGIFS 19,452]

6 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

I read somewhere that this guy had no legal record or medical alerts and was generally a regular guy who didn't raise alarms with neighbors, etc. Short of pre-crime and thought police, how can you keep guns away (in the current status quo) from someone who is mentally ill but hasn't been flagged as it yet?

That was my questioning response to sawbonz as a response to his rhetorical question.

(Hyperbole for effect)

I think somebody signing over their severance paycheck to buy an assault rifle is a pretty big giveaway that they might be pretty upset with their former employer.  
 

Serious question-has anyone seen a data set of gun suicides in terms of how long between purchase and the suicide attempt?  We talk about red flags and cooling off periods for mass shooters but we never really talk about it for the tens of thousands of folks each year that still be alive but for the easy convenience of eating a bullet.  

[TexArcher 38,001]

6 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Different time, different set of facts on the ground now. A fine symbolic gesture, though. Should provide material for much self-congratulation.  

It wasn't a symbolic gesture.  It was a law that stood for 10 years.

You're acting like the Democrats aren't really trying to get something done when they already did get something done and the Republicans allowed it to expire.

And the current Congressional inaction on gun control is 100% the fault of the Republicans, full stop.  The Democrats want it, 70% of Americans want it, and the Republicans won't let it happen.  Believing otherwise is being wrong.

Edited April 11, 2023 by TexArcher

[Bozo_Casanova 26,521]

41 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

It's like Austin's homeless debate - on one side have you have the obscene cruelty of people who think banning homelessness is a real solution, and on the other hand you have the obscene cruelty of those who think letting a human being sleep on the sidewalk in a puddle of their own piss is a kindness. 

One of the reasons why I come back to this analogy a lot is because it illustrates how our language obscures the nature of the conflict and prevents progress. The "centrist" or "moderate" position between the two above camps is ... what? Oh, right - letting homeless people set up camp in approved areas to sleep in their own piss.  

The centrist or moderate position between gun fetishists and prohibitionists is likewise retarded - that we can hit the wayback machine to 1994, sprinkle in some voluntary bureaucratic novelties, and that will make a meaningful difference.

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Bozo_Casanova

[HamsterHookah 112]

4 minutes ago, Gap03 said:

Well, it would seem that he had so many concussions as an athlete that he wore a helmet when playing basketball.  Given the correlation between CTE and impulsive / aggressive / violent behavior, maybe we could require a bit higher threshold before we let someone with this history buy a gun - especially an AR-15?

 

Agreed.

What does that look like? Doctors having to report CTE and other medical issues like head trauma, like they do with mental illness so it's flagged?

[Bozo_Casanova 26,521]

5 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

And the current Congressional inaction on gun control is 100% the fault of the Republicans, full stop.  The Democrats want it, 70% of Americans want it, and the Republicans won't let it happen.  Believing otherwise is being wrong.

I agree with the idea that Republicans are the sole obstacle to gun control of any kind. I do not believe that simply reinstating the assault weapons ban will meaningfully change the accelerating pattern of violence in our society or the volume of private despair. 

[Bullneck 19,196]

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

 

Just read some of the responses to that on Twitter.

I read some of those.  Literally the combination of stupid/crazy you can't imagine.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

I read somewhere that this guy had no legal record or medical alerts and was generally a regular guy who didn't raise alarms with neighbors, etc. Short of pre-crime and thought police, how can you keep guns away (in the current status quo) from someone who is mentally ill but hasn't been flagged as it yet?
That was my questioning response to sawbonz as a response to his rhetorical question.

Where did you read that?

[freyguy 4,284]

20 minutes ago, Gap03 said:

Well, it would seem that he had so many concussions as an athlete that he wore a helmet when playing basketball.  Given the correlation between CTE and impulsive / aggressive / violent behavior, maybe we could require a bit higher threshold before we let someone with this history buy a gun - especially an AR-15?

 

If you wear a special helmet, you probably shouldn't own a gun...

[Dahobbs 17,638]

14 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I agree with the idea that Republicans are the sole obstacle to gun control of any kind. I do not believe that simply reinstating the assault weapons ban will meaningfully change the accelerating pattern of violence in our society or the volume of private despair. 

We've discussed a ton of additional reforms on this thread. And those reforms, or ones like them, have been proposed by Congress. I don't understand where you're getting the idea that an assault weapon ban is the whole totality of what has been proposed. 

[HamsterHookah 112]

Just now, Bama Chick said:

Where did you read that?

 

 

 

 

From the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/04/10/louisville-bank-shooting-kentucky/

Neighbors of Sturgeon, whose house was surrounded by heavily armed officers Monday, said in interviews that they had not interacted with him much, but that little about him stood out.

Kera Allgeier, 39, lived next door to Sturgeon in a home owned by her father with her four children and her partner, Michael McCoy, a 45-year-old brick mason. Allgeier, who works at Ford Motor, said she didn’t see Sturgeon much because they had different work schedules. She said he and his roommate had invited them to summer parties where attendees played beer pong in the backyard, though she never attended.

“Never once would I have thought any of this,” Allgeier said. “He didn’t strike us like that.”

Sturgeon was quiet, said Allgeier, who said she heard him say little more than hello and goodbye. There were no signs of guns or “anything inappropriate,” she said. Her partner, McCoy, said he briefly interacted with Sturgeon on Sunday, when he and Allgeier were feeding a cat in the street behind their house. Even so, Allgeier said, she found herself feeling numbed by the news.

“Nothing surprises you anymore,” she said, adding she had “a lot of friends” who had died, victims of the opioid epidemic. “In the world, it’s becoming the norm, and that’s sad.”

Another neighbor, Maryanne Denny, 58, worked with trauma surgeons Monday morning as shooting victims came into the University of Louisville hospital, where she is employed as a medical assistant in the outpatient office. Denny said she saw Sturgeon a few times going in and out of the house with a gym bag and they’d wave. She said she felt “in shock and disbelief” but, of Sturgeon, she added, “Who knows, nowadays, what goes through anyone’s mind?”

[C-Man 27,247]

Sturgeon purchased the AR legally on 4/4 as per the current PC out of Louisville

[BrickHorn 18,262]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Let's not pretend that Democrats have proposed meaningful, rational, comprehensive reform that could put a majority together, because that's not true. And I don't believe the bolded part above -  that they actually believe what has been proposed would be the most effective solution or set of solutions.  I'm not saying that Republicans are acting in good faith. They aren't. But Democrats aren't either, broadly speaking. 

EDIT: and for the record, I 100% disagree with your last sentence. Mental health shouldn't be the Republicans problem to solve, and ignoring it is a HUGE component of the Democrats failure as a national party. 

Fuck off with your Anastasisms. Republicans obstruct any meaningful reform. Democrats at least try to get something done; you can’t blame them for resorting to incrementalism when Republicans alone have made that the only feasible option.

Good lord, I can’t believe I have to actually point out how fucking stupid your perspective on this is.

[safe sex 11,741]

Even if a bill is underwhelming and toothless, it's important to get something passed, to show the people that it can be done. You have to get the tip of the wedge into the issue first, then the rest can follow. Earlier, I referenced the 1957 Civil Rights bill that LBJ navigated through the Senate (and similar conservative opposition). Yes, it sucked that that bill was ultimately a wet fart, but without it, the 1964 Civil Rights bill may not have been possible (at least in its passing form at the time). 

Do something

Edited April 11, 2023 by safe sex

[BrickHorn 18,262]

4 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Even if a bill is underwhelming and toothless, is important to get something passed, to show the people that it can be done. You have to get the tip of the wedge into the issue first, then the rest can follow. Earlier, I referenced the 1957 Civil Rights bill that LBJ navigated through the Senate (and similar conservative opposition). Yes, it sucked that that bill was ultimately a wet fart, but without it, the 1964 Civil Rights bill may not have been possible (at least in its passing form at the time). 

Do something

I blame the Democrats for not passing a law to solve all of our problems over rabid, unanimous opposition from Republicans in Congress, Republican administrations, and far right judges wielding an idiotic interpretation of the Second Amendment as an almost impregnable constitutional veto.

Fuckin Democrats! 

[WhatTheBuck 28,795]

59 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I agree with the idea that Republicans are the sole obstacle to gun control of any kind. I do not believe that simply reinstating the assault weapons ban will meaningfully change the accelerating pattern of violence in our society or the volume of private despair. 

They don’t have private despair in other countries?

It’s the guns. We know what the problem is. It’s not mental illness, it’s not “private despair,” it’s not rock music or movies or video games or porn. The problem is the guns. More guns means more gun deaths. The numbers show that when we ban assault weapons, the most efficient killers, the number of shooting deaths go down. Why wouldn’t that be the case? And why shouldn’t we expect that to be the case if we banned them again? Make the kids with their private despair go on shooting sprees with weaker weapons and they won’t kill as many people.

We can’t get rid of all the guns. Set aside the fact that we can’t do anything about the problem because the Republicans are just fine with little children getting their brains blown out in school. So the subject is purely academic. But if we got rid of the most powerful and most efficient tools of death then I think it’s perfectly reasonable to assume shooting deaths would decline just like they did before. Stop the sale of assault weapons, offer a voluntary buy-back program, and we’d see positive results.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2,844]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Different time, different set of facts on the ground now. A fine symbolic gesture, though. Should provide material for much self-congratulation.  

Somewhere between symbolic gestures and reasonable gun control is where negotiation and legislation are supposed to happen.  The Republicans aren't even attempting to engage in that. 

[BrickHorn 18,262]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I agree with the idea that Republicans are the sole obstacle to gun control of any kind.

Credit where credit is due: you are 100% right about that. Which is why I find your bothsideserism a befuddling and aggravating.