Mass Shootings

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Wow that’s fucked up. 

What’s fucked up?

Your fellow cowboys believe that more folks walking around with more guns protects other cowboys from indians.

It would be morally reprehensible for that gun to not end up in the hands of another cowboy who can then protect society from indians that might want to hurt people.

[DDD Dad 14243]

2 hours ago, royiv said:

I mean we wouldn't want a perfectly good gun going to waste now, would we?

Well we know it works....

[dieucla98 2933]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Wow that’s fucked up. 

Those fucking Kentucky Democrats and their lack of leadership.

[Biff Tannen 45491]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

Same playbook for global warming.  First, deny.  Then deny.  Then point to something else.  Then deny.  Then pivot to "Well, it's too late now."

Gaia is going to force our hand on climate change before enough kids die from mass shootings to get rid of guns.  It's fucked up, but ultimately what we probably deserve.

[royiv 9145]

42 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

What’s fucked up?

Your fellow cowboys believe that more folks walking around with more guns protects other cowboys from indians.

It would be morally reprehensible for that gun to not end up in the hands of another cowboy who can then protect society from indians that might want to hurt people.

You missed the talking point that the presence of a gun in a conflict actually leads to de-escalation. That's my new favorite one brought to us by our resident arms dealer, not that he has anything to gain from selling assault weapons and assault weapon related accessories.

[CooterBrown 17901]

You missed the talking point that the presence of a gun in a conflict actually leads to de-escalation.

An armed society is a polite society. That’s why the US is one of the top three safest countries in North America.

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

What’s fucked up?

Your fellow cowboys believe that more folks walking around with more guns protects other cowboys from indians.

It would be morally reprehensible for that gun to not end up in the hands of another cowboy who can then protect society from indians that might want to hurt people.

I think we need far fewer guns in society.

I don't carry, I don't think most people should, and I don't even like cops in schools. What I want is a productive effort to actually get guns off the street, out of public places and completely out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. 
What I'm opposed to is unproductive political discourse and ideological purity standards at the cost of results.  

Nice projection though. This is how you win. 

[WhatTheBuck 28703]

2 hours ago, Nivek said:

Same playbook for global warming.  First, deny.  Then deny.  Then point to something else.  Then deny.  Then pivot to "Well, it's too late now."

I was thinking about that while I was writing. They’re very similar. There is a problem and there are solutions and they’re two different subjects. Those in the global warming denial machine will often use the difficulty of solutions to cloud the issue when discussing the problem itself. I’m not saying Bozo is doing that but it reminds me of that. And the first step to making a solution impossible is to declare it impossible and argue that there’s no point in even trying. 

[royiv 9145]

8 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I think we need far fewer guns in society.

I don't carry, I don't think most people should, and I don't even like cops in schools. What I want is a productive effort to actually get guns off the street, out of public places and completely out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. 
What I'm opposed to is unproductive political discourse and ideological purity standards at the cost of results.  

Nice projection though. This is how you win. 

What you're experiencing is folks that have been open to productive discussion and compromise for years that have been constantly shut down by the NRA and their legislative stooges who are completely disingenuous. People are getting tired of negotiating with terrorists.

At some point, we realize it's pointless and just say fuck it. I grew up around guns, I hunted and loved target shooting growing up. My wife and I both have a good time when we go shoot clays, but at this point I don't need access to those toys if it means we can move away from the sick gun culture in this country. Fuck it. Burn it to the ground.

I know, it's the fault of the democrats. I guess I'll go back to voting republican.

[Brisketexan 104537]

What you're experiencing is folks that have been open to productive discussion and compromise for years that have been constantly shut down by the NRA and their legislative stooges who are completely disingenuous. People are getting tired of negotiating with terrorists.
At some point, we realize it's pointless and just say fuck it. I grew up around guns, I hunted and loved target shooting growing up. My wife and I both have a good time when we go shoot clays, but at this point I don't need access to those toys if it means we can move away from the sick gun culture in this country. Fuck it. Burn it to the ground.
I know, it's the fault of the democrats. I guess I'll go back to voting republican.

This response is exactly what I’ve been warning the Fatties of the world about, to no avail.
If you wanted to come up with a plan to turn all manner of people, including other gun owners, into flat-out Prohibitionists who will offer zero quarter or compromise the moment they have the power to do so, the path we’re on is exactly what I’d recommend.
The current zero quarter, zero compromise approach of the dominant political bloc on gun control (the GQP and the absolutists) will work 100%….right up to the point where the balance of power shifts, and then it will work 0%, which is exactly as much movement on the issue that they’ve conceded (yes, I’m aware of a handful of do-nothing pieces of legislation over the past years, but they are functionally zero, and after Bruen, they’re irrelevant).
Seriously. See how many people are offering the take I quoted, some version of: “I grew up around guns, have used them, have never been particularly bothered by them, but now, I’m fucking done with them. All of them.”
The Absolutist approach is creating truckloads of new Prohibitionists every day. And math isn’t complicated - eventually, as you keep adding to an opposition group, they’ll eventually outnumber you. It’s utterly stupid, but that’s how we roll in Murica.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I think we need far fewer guns in society.

Then why do you keep buying them? Every gun you buy supports an industry hellbent on making sure more guns are more readily available in our society.

[Nivek 16843]

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Gaia is going to force our hand on climate change before enough kids die from mass shootings to get rid of guns.  It's fucked up, but ultimately what we probably deserve.

Our kids do not deserve this.  Our government is not one representative.  60% of people lean left.  80% of people agree to enact firearm regulations.  30% of the people are non-religious.   In the past steps were taken to make sure the rural community was not underrepresented in our government.  In reality, they are now overrepresented and to the point, they think they are the REAL AMERICANS, not you.  Not me.  We need to compromise with them, not the other way around.   The Taliban is our government.   

 

[Biff Tannen 45491]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

This response is exactly what I’ve been warning the Fatties of the world about, to no avail.
If you wanted to come up with a plan to turn all manner of people, including other gun owners, into flat-out Prohibitionists who will offer zero quarter or compromise the moment they have the power to do so, the path we’re on is exactly what I’d recommend.
The current zero quarter, zero compromise approach of the dominant political bloc on gun control (the GQP and the absolutists) will work 100%….right up to the point where the balance of power shifts, and then it will work 0%, which is exactly as much movement on the issue that they’ve conceded (yes, I’m aware of a handful of do-nothing pieces of legislation over the past years, but they are functionally zero, and after Bruen, they’re irrelevant).
Seriously. See how many people are offering the take I quoted, some version of: “I grew up around guns, have used them, have never been particularly bothered by them, but now, I’m fucking done with them. All of them.”
The Absolutist approach is creating truckloads of new Prohibitionists every day. And math isn’t complicated - eventually, as you keep adding to an opposition group, they’ll eventually outnumber you. It’s utterly stupid, but that’s how we roll in Murica.

Agree.  And I'm to that point as well.  How would life possibly be any worse in America if we did a full ban?  What consequences could there possibly be?  It won't happen and it's essentially logistically impossible, but just as a hypothetical?

[Blotto 23424]

17 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I've yet to see a GOP politician even respond to a question that even their voters want some gun control reform. They refuse to acknowledge the question, and side step it to the inevitable thoughts and prayers about the most recent gun carnage, today's not the day to discuss change, etc. etc.

The GQP in this country has largely painted itself into a box. They know the demographics are not in their favor nationwide. They haven't won the presidential popular election since 2004. Their voting base has a disproportionate number of fat, older voters that took a huge hit during Covid to "own the libs." To counter that, they increasingly rely on their bullshit gerrymandering and voter suppression, etc... But in addition to those tactics, they cannot stand to lose ANY of their voting base. A voting base that is cobbled together out of some very motivated single issue voters (guns, jesus, abortion, immigration, Trump).

Even if its true that 80% of gun owners are in favor of red flag laws, the 20% that aren't in favor probably vote GQP by an overwhelming percentage (likely 90%+ of those that vote). So if approx half the country owns guns, and 20% of gun owners are NOT in favor of red flag laws, that works out to approximately 10% of the country that the GQP is terrified of losing. They pander to those fucking morons, because they simply cant afford not to. I'd imagine there are plenty of GQP politicians that realize the absurdity of small-dicked guntards screaming about the right to own AR-15's, but they are terrified that those single issue voters will just stop showing up if the GQP doesn't cater to their needs. And thats how you end up with a minority group driving policy in this country. 

That same dynamic exists with abortion, jesus in schools/government, people who think Trump is the messiah, etc... Its why the GQP always take the path that caters to extremists. Failing to do so probably results in enough people saying "fuck it, I aint dragging myself away from this here episode of Ouch My Balls to vote." The same dynamic exists to some degree on the Dem side as well, but they arent as desperate as the GQP due to changing demographics. 

 

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I think we need far fewer guns in society.

I don't carry, I don't think most people should, and I don't even like cops in schools. What I want is a productive effort to actually get guns off the street, out of public places and completely out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. 
What I'm opposed to is unproductive political discourse and ideological purity standards at the cost of results.  

Nice projection though. This is how you win. 

I read your words, but I dont believe you. Here are your suggestions for reform.

Quote

What I want at the national level:

1. 7-day waiting period on all retail gun purchases
2. Removal of NFA restrictions on SBRs, suppressors and braces
3. ATF eForm 4 & 5 processing modernization with a mandate for completion in 30 days or less.
4. NFA restriction of binary triggers equivalent to those on fully automatic weapons
5. Requirements for states to have locally appropriate red flag laws consistent with federal law
6. Most other matters left to states

What I want in Texas:

1. Minimum age or 21 to purchase a semi-automatic firearm
2. Permissibility of open carry subject to local law in homerule cities (i.e. population >5000)
3. A strong red flag law

While they may be common sense ideas, those suggestions will do FUCK ALL to reduce the number of guns in this country. The way you reduce the number of guns in this country is to make it much fucking harder to buy guns at all in this country. Anything else is lip service bullshit. Apparently there are about 3 million semi-auto rifles sold in this country every year. I have no idea why morons think that is a good idea, but I can think of a great way to reduce the number of guns sold by 3 mil a year right off the bat.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/07/20/record-28-million-ar-15-and-ak-style-rifles-entered-us-circulation-in-2020-gun-group-says/

But of course that's a bridge to far for you. You want a minimum set of laws that may restrict others from possibly buying guns, but you don't want any legislation that will impact your own ability to play Rambo at the gun range/ranch every weekend and jack-off your buddies while you swap tales about how much ammo you bought on sale. What was your comment about the 94 ban..."Different time, different set of facts on the ground." Lulz. 

I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who once said "the tree of AR-15's must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of schoolchildren and families out to watch a movie." You're a true patriot. And also completely full of shit on this issue. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33831]

23 hours ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Completely ignoring the other side is a sure way to accomplish nothing.

This is a bullshit take. We on the side of reason are effectively arguing with terrorists. You don't negotiate with terrorists. You treat them like the enemy combatants they are and neutralize them as quickly as you can. I'm not advocating for mass extermination, but we have to take their power away, somehow. We're being held hostage in this country by the worst and dumbest fucking people. I, for one, am fucking tired of it. I have lately actually fallen asleep to the thought of what I would do in a mass shooter situation. I'm 44: I can honestly say this thought never occurred to me in the ~40 years prior. 

21 hours ago, Hawndoh said:

Once again, you folks are arguing with religious zealots. The gun is their god.

You don't have rational policy debates with zealots.

This. Terrorists. Zealots. Whatever you want to call them. They are the enemy of the people. Plain and simple.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Longhorn_Fan68

[CooterBrown 17901]

4 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

 I'm not advocating for mass extermination

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

16 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Then why do you keep buying them? Every gun you buy supports an industry hellbent on making sure more guns are more readily available in our society.

I have the exact same relationship with them as I do with any other speciality tool. They are interesting machines that have a particular use and nothing else will do, and they stay locked up tight when not in use. I don't even keep guns and ammo in the same building otherwise. 
Somewhat ironically, the AR-15 is one of the least interesting or useful of the guns I own from that perspective - it's not the best gun for anything other than posing in a mirror and violent fantasy play. It's a problem product and I only keep mine around as a reference. 

 

52 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This response is exactly what I’ve been warning the Fatties of the world about, to no avail.
If you wanted to come up with a plan to turn all manner of people, including other gun owners, into flat-out Prohibitionists who will offer zero quarter or compromise the moment they have the power to do so, the path we’re on is exactly what I’d recommend.
The current zero quarter, zero compromise approach of the dominant political bloc on gun control (the GQP and the absolutists) will work 100%….right up to the point where the balance of power shifts, and then it will work 0%, which is exactly as much movement on the issue that they’ve conceded (yes, I’m aware of a handful of do-nothing pieces of legislation over the past years, but they are functionally zero, and after Bruen, they’re irrelevant).
Seriously. See how many people are offering the take I quoted, some version of: “I grew up around guns, have used them, have never been particularly bothered by them, but now, I’m fucking done with them. All of them.”
The Absolutist approach is creating truckloads of new Prohibitionists every day. And math isn’t complicated - eventually, as you keep adding to an opposition group, they’ll eventually outnumber you. It’s utterly stupid, but that’s how we roll in Murica.

Yeah, I agree with all this. I think the only question is whether that happens before or after the absolutists find themselves on the losing side of armed civil disorder.

[Brisketexan 104537]

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Yeah, I agree with all this. I think the only question is whether that happens before or after the absolutists find themselves on the losing side of armed civil disorder.

Also an important point.  A material segment of the fetishists look forward to a violent outcome with near sexual fervor.  They will eventually get their wish.  But on their "side" will not be "every other gun owner!  Nothing can stop all of us!"....on their side will be just the wingnuttiest of the wingnuts.  And between law enforcement and other armed Americans who are NOT fucking psychotic traitors, they are going to find themselves massively outgunned and totally fucked.

Odds are, there will be a real-deal armed insurrection within the next 10 years (probably within 3-4 years).  It will be a devastating moment for this nation and our psyche.  A fair number of people are going to die.  And it will NOT turn out at all like the fetishists fantasize it will.

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

37 minutes ago, Blotto said:

While they may be common sense ideas, those suggestions will do FUCK ALL to reduce the number of guns in this country. The way you reduce the number of guns in this country is to make it much fucking harder to buy guns at all in this country.

That's false. A 7 day waiting period at the federal level and mandated red flag and age restrictions on semi-automatic weapons make it harder to buy, and allowing home-rule cities to restrict open or unlicensed carry would reduce the presence of guns in public. They would certainly do more to stop mass shootings than failing to reinstate a ban while yelling and gnashing teeth. 

[Thrawn 538]

11 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

Sickening …

 

I would not be surprised to hear that Harlan Crow picks this up at auction and ads it to his collection of evil. Of course it would only be for the preservation of historic artifacts. Not because he is an evil fuck.

[royiv 9145]

12 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

That's false. A 7 day waiting period at the federal level and mandated red flag and age restrictions on semi-automatic weapons make it harder to buy, and allowing home-rule cities to restrict open or unlicensed carry would reduce the presence of guns in public. They would certainly do more to stop mass shootings than failing to reinstate a ban while yelling and gnashing teeth. 

You know that our state government would never allow home-rule cities to restrict open or unlicensed carry. 

[Satchel 6908]

2 minutes ago, royiv said:

You know that our state government would never allow home-rule cities to restrict open or unlicensed carry. 

That’s why we initiate the arduous task of turning out our state government.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

34 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I have the exact same relationship with them as I do with any other speciality tool. They are interesting machines that have a particular use and nothing else will do

Here's you 1 week ago in the gun owner's thread:

Quote

I'm thinking about buying a 5.7 for the same bullshit reasons I buy other guns. Anybody own the PSA Rock 5.7 and have opinions?

You buy guns and support the gun lobby because you like playing with guns. You, like millions of other Americans, have a gun fetish.

And unfortunately your fetish is now the leading cause of death for children in our country, so we, uh, got a problem with your fetish.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33831]

5 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

You buy guns and support the gun lobby because you like playing with guns. You, like millions of other Americans, have a gun fetish.

And unfortunately your fetish is now the leading cause of death for children in our country, so we, uh, got a problem with your fetish.

fucking exactly. I don't know how anyone can look at any child - their own or someone else's - and a gun and choose the fucking gun.

[royiv 9145]

1 hour ago, Blotto said:

The GQP in this country has largely painted itself into a box. They know the demographics are not in their favor nationwide. They haven't won the presidential popular election since 2004. Their voting base has a disproportionate number of fat, older voters that took a huge hit during Covid to "own the libs." To counter that, they increasingly rely on their bullshit gerrymandering and voter suppression, etc... But in addition to those tactics, they cannot stand to lose ANY of their voting base. A voting base that is cobbled together out of some very motivated single issue voters (guns, jesus, abortion, immigration, Trump).

Even if its true that 80% of gun owners are in favor of red flag laws, the 20% that aren't in favor probably vote GQP by an overwhelming percentage (likely 90%+ of those that vote). So if approx half the country owns guns, and 20% of gun owners are NOT in favor of red flag laws, that works out to approximately 10% of the country that the GQP is terrified of losing. They pander to those fucking morons, because they simply cant afford not to. I'd imagine there are plenty of GQP politicians that realize the absurdity of small-dicked guntards screaming about the right to own AR-15's, but they are terrified that those single issue voters will just stop showing up if the GQP doesn't cater to their needs. And thats how you end up with a minority group driving policy in this country. 

That same dynamic exists with abortion, jesus in schools/government, people who think Trump is the messiah, etc... Its why the GQP always take the path that caters to extremists. Failing to do so probably results in enough people saying "fuck it, I aint dragging myself away from this here episode of Ouch My Balls to vote." The same dynamic exists to some degree on the Dem side as well, but they arent as desperate as the GQP due to changing demographics. 

 

I read your words, but I dont believe you. Here are your suggestions for reform.

While they may be common sense ideas, those suggestions will do FUCK ALL to reduce the number of guns in this country. The way you reduce the number of guns in this country is to make it much fucking harder to buy guns at all in this country. Anything else is lip service bullshit. Apparently there are about 3 million semi-auto rifles sold in this country every year. I have no idea why morons think that is a good idea, but I can think of a great way to reduce the number of guns sold by 3 mil a year right off the bat.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/07/20/record-28-million-ar-15-and-ak-style-rifles-entered-us-circulation-in-2020-gun-group-says/

But of course that's a bridge to far for you. You want a minimum set of laws that may restrict others from possibly buying guns, but you don't want any legislation that will impact your own ability to play Rambo at the gun range/ranch every weekend and jack-off your buddies while you swap tales about how much ammo you bought on sale. What was your comment about the 94 ban..."Different time, different set of facts on the ground." Lulz. 

I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who once said "the tree of AR-15's must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of schoolchildren and families out to watch a movie." You're a true patriot. And also completely full of shit on this issue. 

Gross image from the story you linked

It's right there on the gun: Freedom! Buy more guns to protect freedom! 

[royiv 9145]

Just now, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

fucking exactly. I don't know how anyone can look at any child - their own or someone else's - and a gun and choose the fucking gun.

Ask fatty. He's done it. At least he admitted that other people's kids don't move the needle for him, but if his own kids get shot he might reconsider things. Unfortunate for his kids that they'll be dead before their father thinks to even reconsider his gun fetish.

[Blotto 23424]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

That's false. A 7 day waiting period at the federal level and mandated red flag and age restrictions on semi-automatic weapons make it harder to buy, and allowing home-rule cities to restrict open or unlicensed carry would reduce the presence of guns in public. They would certainly do more to stop mass shootings than failing to reinstate a ban while yelling and gnashing teeth. 

That's not really my argument. You're couching your objection behind the argument that "an outright ban could never happen" like its completely unimaginable and has never happened in the past. And then you suggest your milquetoast reforms would "do more". If I accept that "it cant happen", you're correct. But "it cant happen" is really only true as long as the fucked up GQP circus continues to limp along and stay relevant. Maybe they can keep selling tickets for another 30 years, or maybe it all splinters apart between now and '24 if shit goes sideways and Trump takes a chainsaw to the GQP. 

In the meantime, I'm not holding out hope that even your cursory reforms will ever pass for the reason that the GQP  answers only to extremists, not the Bozo _Casanovas of the world. Even if your reforms did pass, they wouldn't reduce the supply of guns in this country by any appreciable amount. An outright ban on semi-auto guns would have a far greater effect (if it were to occur). You think its an impossibility, I'm not so sure. 

20 years ago, I was largely indifferent to the issue of gun ownership and certainly didn't have an issue with ownership by responsible citizens. But we've come a long way in 20 years, and like Brisket alluded to earlier, the complete idiocy of the GQP on the matter has converted me from "I dont own them, but I dont mind if others do" to " fuck those losers, gun worship is out of control, so take away their toys." I've fired plenty of guns, it can be fun. So were lawn darts, but the country has moved on. Fuck your gun fetish. 

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Yeah, I agree with all this. I think the only question is whether that happens before or after the absolutists find themselves on the losing side of armed civil disorder.

There it is....patriot Bozo weighing in on the Red Dawn masturbatory scenario where millions of patriots mount their rascals and ride to DC to take it all down. Drones would wipe those fucking fat-asses off the face of the earth from a half mile away while they congregated in a Dunkin Donuts parking lot. Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. Are you planning on taking part? 

Edit - and I ask your about participation for a reason. Half the country doesn't own guns.  A good chunk of  those that do, probably own one or two guns for self protection and hunting, and own no semi-autos. So I'm guessing not too many of that group is gonna participate in a civil uprising over a semi-auto ban.  Break down some numbers for me, exactly how many people do you think it will take to pull this patriotic coup? 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Blotto

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19092]

22 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Republicans want to live in the Wild West. Everyone has to carry a gun everywhere. That’s freedom!

dumbest people 

Except even in the Wild West, there were gun free zones. Those were put in place to protect innocent bystanders.

Edited April 12, 2023 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

57 minutes ago, royiv said:

You know that our state government would never allow home-rule cities to restrict open or unlicensed carry. 

As currently constituted, correct, but 
 

54 minutes ago, Satchel said:

That’s why we initiate the arduous task of turning out our state government.

This is the way. And this is fundamentally why we need to run to win, instead of trying to build coalitions by subtraction, for example the below:

 

39 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Here's you 1 week ago in the gun owner's thread:

You buy guns and support the gun lobby because you like playing with guns. You, like millions of other Americans, have a gun fetish.

And unfortunately your fetish is now the leading cause of death for children in our country, so we, uh, got a problem with your fetish.

um, I said I find them interesting? Sorry if my interests don't meet your moral standard, but the 5.7mm pistol I don't own isn't killing anybody. I've suggested things right on this thread that would make it harder and less convenience to buy that pistol. Nothing that has been suggested by you here would make it harder. 

Here's the problem with prohibitionists - you don't allow for the existence of other points of view or the good faith of allies. This is how you assist absolutists in the maintenance of the status quo  - to get through you, Beto has to say "hell yes we're going to take your guns," which of course precludes him from being governor. 
 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Bozo_Casanova

[nbmishoid 937]

Unforgiven….. seems to be an obvious reference.

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

6 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Except even in the Wild West, there were gun free zones. Those were put in place to protect innocent bystanders.

The gunfight at the OK corral was fought over this. 

This was the point about the home-rule city thing. Greg Abbott and the statewide electeds are intruding on a ton of prerogatives of home rule cities in Texas. There's a lot of support in some very red places to back them down. 

[royiv 9145]

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The gunfight at the OK corral was fought over this. 

This was the point about the home-rule city thing. Greg Abbott and the statewide electeds are intruding on a ton of prerogatives of home rule cities in Texas. There's a lot of support in some very red places to back them down. 

Who did you vote for for governor, lieutenant governor and attorney general in the last two elections?

[UpperWestside 6126]

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Agree.  And I'm to that point as well.  How would life possibly be any worse in America if we did a full ban?  What consequences could there possibly be?  It won't happen and it's essentially logistically impossible, but just as a hypothetical?

I’m okay with a full ban. If you’re not okay with that please let us all know so we know who values a gun over your fellow citizens. This issue, among several others, is why I am getting out of Dodge as soon as possible and headed for a place as far removed from the mainland as possible.

[royiv 9145]

11 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

As currently constituted, correct, but 
 

This is the way. And this is fundamentally why we need to run to win, instead of trying to build coalitions by subtraction, for example the below:

 

um, I said I find them interesting? Sorry if my interests don't meet your moral standard, but the 5.7mm pistol I don't own isn't killing anybody. I've suggested things right on this thread that would make it harder and less convenience to buy that pistol. Nothing that has been suggested by you here would make it harder. 

Here's the problem with prohibitionists - you don't allow for the existence of other points of view or the good faith of allies. This is how you assist absolutists in the maintenance of the status quo  - to get through you, Beto has to say "hell yes we're going to take your guns," which of course precludes him from being governor. 
 

You're falling into the NRA trap here. If you and your fellow gun hobbyists truly believed what you type, we wouldn't be where we are today. It's the behavior of your fellow gun hobbyists that has gotten us here. It's not those of us that want gun control, it's not democrats. Just admit that the NRA and GQP are heading into the find out stage of fuck around and find out. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

23 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Edit - and I ask your about participation for a reason. Half the country doesn't own guns.  A good chunk of  those that do, probably own one or two guns for self protection and hunting, and own no semi-autos. So I'm guessing not too many of that group is gonna participate in a civil uprising over a semi-auto ban.  Break down some numbers for me, exactly how many people do you think it will take to pull this patriotic coup? 

Well you aren't really talking about a lot of people who would actually do something, but January 6th certainly got my attention.  That said, I'm more concerned near term about pockets of disorder in rural and exurban areas - not so much insurrection but revolt and a lack of respect for the rights of those outside the local majority. I mean, it's not like they aren't banning books. That's typically a pretty bad sign. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

7 minutes ago, royiv said:

Who did you vote for for governor, lieutenant governor and attorney general in the last two elections?

Are you new here?

2022 - Beto, Mike Collier, Rochelle Garza

2018 - Lupe Vasquez, Mike Collier, Justin Nelson
2014 - Davis, Van de Putte, and Sam Houston

etc, back to 1992

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

12 minutes ago, royiv said:

Just admit that the NRA and GQP are heading into the find out stage of fuck around and find out. 

I said that to Brisket upthread. Have you been bitten by a bat or loose dog recently?

[royiv 9145]

5 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Are you new here?

2022 - Beto, Mike Collier, Rochelle Garza

2018 - Lupe Vasquez, Mike Collier, Justin Nelson
2014 - Davis, Van de Putte, and Sam Houston

etc, back to 1992

 

4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I said that to Brisket upthread. Have you been bitten by a bat or loose dog recently?

Obviously not new, just confused by your posting as of late in this thread. You've been spouting a bunch of broken-brained NRA apologist shit. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

10 minutes ago, royiv said:

 

Obviously not new, just confused by your posting as of late in this thread. You've been spouting a bunch of broken-brained NRA apologist shit. 

voting coalitions aren't ideological monoliths, but I will check my body for bat bites as well. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

As currently constituted, correct, but 
 

This is the way. And this is fundamentally why we need to run to win, instead of trying to build coalitions by subtraction, for example the below:

 

um, I said I find them interesting? Sorry if my interests don't meet your moral standard, but the 5.7mm pistol I don't own isn't killing anybody. I've suggested things right on this thread that would make it harder and less convenience to buy that pistol. Nothing that has been suggested by you here would make it harder. 

Here's the problem with prohibitionists - you don't allow for the existence of other points of view or the good faith of allies. This is how you assist absolutists in the maintenance of the status quo  - to get through you, Beto has to say "hell yes we're going to take your guns," which of course precludes him from being governor. 
 

Ah yes, a gun fetishist lamenting the lack of good faith when it comes to gun control.

You’ll continue to vote for politicians that can never and will never put forth gun control measures you claim to favor because doing so would be political suicide. It’s political suicide due to a gun lobby you also support.

Your attempts to blame the other side are complete and utter bullshit.

[Blotto 23424]

59 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Well you aren't really talking about a lot of people who would actually do something, but January 6th certainly got my attention.  That said, I'm more concerned near term about pockets of disorder in rural and exurban areas - not so much insurrection but revolt and a lack of respect for the rights of those outside the local majority. I mean, it's not like they aren't banning books. That's typically a pretty bad sign. 

Yeah, I have no doubt we will see some broken-brained dipshits lash out over the government restricting access to their guns, and we'll probably even see some hair-brained militia shit. And there will certainly be some tragic outcomes. But you know what...we had a tragic outcome this week in Louisville. And we had another one last week at that Tenn school, and we had another one..... So the potential for civil unrest that results in the loss of innocent life isn't a compelling reason to avoid doing anything. And I certainly don't expect "us" to be on the losing side of an armed rebellion. Unless you consider everyone losing by the fact it even occurs. 

But I'm fucking done with this shit. The average citizen doesn't need to own semi-automatic weapons for this country to prosper, no matter how "interesting" they may find them. Yeah there will still be gun deaths from handguns, shotguns, bolt action rifles, etc... but I'd gladly take my chances against a lunatic with one of those than a dude with high capacity mags and a weapons that allow them to squeeze off 400+ rounds. This country got along just fine prior to their existence, and will continue to do so after they are banned. Their purpose is to kill in an exceedingly efficient manner and we see on a daily/weekly/monthly basis how often they fulfill that purpose. It blows my fucking mind people think they are a net positive to society. Thats quite a peer group to celebrate.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Blotto

[YGIFS 19449]

well good news is you can tell by his face, that at least he isn't whacked out on blow playing with a demented steampunk semi-auto.  Has some range discipline it seems.  My friend that hunts with him says at least he doesn't get all fucked up while they're out hunting.  So that part's nice.  

Edited April 12, 2023 by YGIFS

[jimmyjazz 45538]

17 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Ah yes, a gun fetishist lamenting the lack of good faith when it comes to gun control.

I don't think bozo is what you are characterizing him as.  I admit I find some of his takes on this topic a bit puzzling, but they seem to be a distillation of an interest in guns (OK in my book) along with a sincere interest in public safety (always good) and a general tendency towards center politics.  The positions may be frustrating but they aren't wholly disingenous or even for lack of thought.

[RomaVicta 29769]

Pigeon-holing Bozo as anti-republic is way off. 

I haven't read the whole discussion (ain't nobody got time for that), but Bozo's opening remarks were largely on target. I also differ on blaming the Dems for not being able to defeat the GOP Hate Engine. Dems are old school politics just like the GOPs likely were decades ago: at least to some degree founded in reason and committed to actual debate.

That shit don't fly anymore. It's pure emotion. It's the emotional reaction to slaughtered school children that causes this debate to flare up.

 

[Brisketexan 104537]

1 hour ago, Blotto said:

There it is....patriot Bozo weighing in on the Red Dawn masturbatory scenario where millions of patriots mount their rascals and ride to DC to take it all down. Drones would wipe those fucking fat-asses off the face of the earth from a half mile away while they congregated in a Dunkin Donuts parking lot. Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. Are you planning on taking part? 

Edit - and I ask your about participation for a reason. Half the country doesn't own guns.  A good chunk of  those that do, probably own one or two guns for self protection and hunting, and own no semi-autos. So I'm guessing not too many of that group is gonna participate in a civil uprising over a semi-auto ban.  Break down some numbers for me, exactly how many people do you think it will take to pull this patriotic coup? 

Umm...I think you missed the entire point of BC raising that scenario.  He's not envisioning himself as a participant, he's observing the openly stated plans and behavioral tendencies of the fetishists/absolutists.  He sees it as a reasonably possible outcome of the psychotic mentality of a large and enabled subgroup, and it will NOT go the way they dream of.

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

um, I said I find them interesting? Sorry if my interests don't meet your moral standard, but the 5.7mm pistol I don't own isn't killing anybody. I've suggested things right on this thread that would make it harder and less convenience to buy that pistol. Nothing that has been suggested by you here would make it harder. 

Here's the problem with prohibitionists - you don't allow for the existence of other points of view or the good faith of allies. This is how you assist absolutists in the maintenance of the status quo  - to get through you, Beto has to say "hell yes we're going to take your guns," which of course precludes him from being governor. 
 

Yeah....you seem to be jumping all over BC here, but to be clear, I am 1) all over this thread speaking in favor of gun control legislation and regulations, and lamenting that the absolutists won't allow anything meaningful to happen, and 2) a life-long gun owner myself.  I am both an ally of the gun control movement AND a gun owner.  I probably won't ever obtain another firearm (although I have always kept room for a nice classic 1911 .45), but I have and regularly use several.  I deer hunt, I bird hunt (and use 2-3 different shotguns for that), and enjoy range time with multiple .22s.  I enjoy them, and appreciate a nice one.  But I am also not just fine with, but actively in support of, a shitload of measures that you are (red flag laws, safe storage laws, higher age limits on purchase/possession of certain weapons, enhanced background checks, and plenty of other measures -- I would be supportive of an assault weapons ban, even, although I agree with BC that the chance of any such ban at THIS particular spot in our historical timeline (which is different as hell from 1994) is remote).

The whole point here is that there is a huge rational swath of people in the middle -- which is truly like 80% of the country -- that is neither gun-ban prohibitionist or 2nd amendment absolutist fetishists.

31 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Ah yes, a gun fetishist lamenting the lack of good faith when it comes to gun control.

You’ll continue to vote for politicians that can never and will never put forth gun control measures you claim to favor because doing so would be political suicide. It’s political suicide due to a gun lobby you also support.

Your attempts to blame the other side are complete and utter bullshit.

Ummm....seriously.  Slow your roll.  BC is primarily a Dem voter, and has been for longer than I have.  He's not your enemy here.  He's not a gun fetishist, he's not an NRA nut, he doesn't support the gun lobby.  He IS painting a realistic picture of the political landscape.  And that picture says "it doesn't matter how good your ideas are, you'll never get shit done in Texas until you start winning elections."  It's an accurate picture. 

Know who your enemy is.  And also, know who your enemy ISN'T.

[fattyflattie 4636]

5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

This response is exactly what I’ve been warning the Fatties of the world about, to no avail.

I understand what you are saying, I just disagree. Oh no, Royiv isn’t onboard anymore. Guess he and his wife negates the 5 people in my family that feel the exact opposite.  So +3.   Check firearm sales. They aren’t going down…

[fattyflattie 4636]

2 hours ago, royiv said:

Ask fatty. He's done it. At least he admitted that other people's kids don't move the needle for him, but if his own kids get shot he might reconsider things. Unfortunate for his kids that they'll be dead before their father thinks to even reconsider his gun fetish.

Remember how you keep saying this thing, and I keep asking you to prove I said it, and you keep not.  Pepperidge farm remembers. 

I do want you to know I hold literal dog shit in higher regards than you.  I'm sure you can figure out where I hold firearms in regards to dogshit.

[Blotto 23424]

5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I understand what you are saying, I just disagree. Oh no, Royiv isn’t onboard anymore. Guess he and his wife negates the 5 people in my family that feel the exact opposite.  So +3.   Check firearm sales. They aren’t going down…

Overall trends in this country are towards lower gun ownership. Firearm sales are increasing because fucking weirdos like you keeping adding more and more guns to your arsenal. 

https://www.vpc.org/studies/ownership.pdf

As far as I'm aware, you only get one vote no matter how many AR-15's you buy. 

 

[Brisketexan 104537]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

I understand what you are saying, I just disagree. Oh no, Royiv isn’t onboard anymore. Guess he and his wife negates the 5 people in my family that feel the exact opposite.  So +3.   Check firearm sales. They aren’t going down…

And they also aren't going up dramatically.  The trend line in recent years is a jagged one:

Red flag laws poll at 86-14 in favor.

Raising the legal age to purchase from 18 to 21 is at 76-24 in favor.

30-day waiting period is at 77-23 in favor.

 

And as for people's position, I'm warning about CHANGES in that position.  You have 5 people who feel the opposite of royiv.  Cool.  But they've ALWAYS felt the opposite.  I'm here to tell you that I know a crapload of people who fall in royiv's group, who did not fall in that group several years ago.  I find it alarming.  As a gun owner, who would like to remain one, I am concerned.  I am also not shocked that a society that governs itself with an absolutist position in favor of positions that poll below 1 in 4 is seeing the majority become less tolerant of having a small minority position shoved down their throat with contempt and glee.  That is never a recipe for long-term success.

[NameAlreadyInUse 5105]

5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

This response is exactly what I’ve been warning the Fatties of the world about, to no avail.
If you wanted to come up with a plan to turn all manner of people, including other gun owners, into flat-out Prohibitionists who will offer zero quarter or compromise the moment they have the power to do so, the path we’re on is exactly what I’d recommend.
The current zero quarter, zero compromise approach of the dominant political bloc on gun control (the GQP and the absolutists) will work 100%….right up to the point where the balance of power shifts, and then it will work 0%, which is exactly as much movement on the issue that they’ve conceded (yes, I’m aware of a handful of do-nothing pieces of legislation over the past years, but they are functionally zero, and after Bruen, they’re irrelevant).
Seriously. See how many people are offering the take I quoted, some version of: “I grew up around guns, have used them, have never been particularly bothered by them, but now, I’m fucking done with them. All of them.”
The Absolutist approach is creating truckloads of new Prohibitionists every day. And math isn’t complicated - eventually, as you keep adding to an opposition group, they’ll eventually outnumber you. It’s utterly stupid, but that’s how we roll in Murica.

Let's go back into the wayback machine.  I remember when the gays were trying to negotiate about getting our legal rights equalized as it relates to our relationships.  For a long time I wrote on this board that I did not give a shit if it was called a cocksucker's license or civil union or whatever else y'all wanted if it meant I could have equal rights in this country.  Republicans decided to fuck around and find out on that one too.  There came a point where my side had convinced enough people and we were done arguing.  We got what we wanted, and I remember a whole bunch of Republicans who had heretofore been against giving us "civil unions" were suddenly all in favor of that if we just wouldn't call it marriage.  Nah, you had your chance to do some common sense negotiating and you decided to be dicks.  Well guess what, we got what we wanted and we got to coopt the name as well.  Fuck all of you who wouldn't even think about compromising.  

The same fate will befall the gun lobby eventually.  You can keep having everything you want for now, with a risk of it all going away at some point in the future.  Or, you can negotiate away some of what you want now and you'll be able to keep most everything else in perpetuity.  Y'all are picking the "everything now" option, you just need to be prepared for the consequences.  There are going to be a lot of cold dead hands before this is all over with.

And FYI for those who weren't around.  Many of the people on this thread participated in these debates, and many of them at some point were on the side of saying that gays didn't deserve equal rights.  Most people came around eventually, but I got a pretty big thrill over those people who, faced with the idea that they had lost completely, were suddenly anxious to compromise.  Sadly, most of those people are gone at this point so I don't get to rub it in with my presence anymore.  I saw all that to say that for all of you, it isn't too late to think long and hard about what you are willing to give up, because if you don't at some start agree to negotiate in good faith, you will eventually have to give up way way way way more than you are being asked for today.