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Mass Shootings

Nice Guy Eddie

By Nice Guy Eddie
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C-Man

C-Man 27194

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Thanks, errybody.  I DGAF about rep, but I enjoy debate and would like to honestly discuss the difficult issues that we deal with in our country.

I seem to be swimming upstream against the prevailing political orthodoxy here.

Great that Texas Football starts on September 2nd!  Hook 'em!

No, you don't.

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hornmpa96
hornmpa96

That’s not true. As has been pointed out in this thread multiple times, other countries who had mass shooting events immediately changed their gun laws to make it harder or impossible to obtain the we

Chuckie Finster
Chuckie Finster

The "we can't solve 100% of the problem so we shouldn't make any attempt at all" line of thinking is a big reason why we are where we are. 

hayden_horn
hayden_horn

yeah i was going to ask for clarification from creasy but i suspended them instead

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mchookem

mchookem 16322

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

I believe the children are our future 

Teach them well and let them lead the way

...which is why the GQP has been in full on attack of education, both the public and higher ed varieties, in recent years. 

"young people absolutely detest our ideas and will never, ever vote for our party! but it can't be us or our policies... it must be that damn education!"

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DalTxHornFan

DalTxHornFan 3097

Posted
Posted

I just wish that there was some way that I could say "Thanks for the gang bang" without violating "the rules" about needing to post pics about this subject!  So many negs, so little time.

The group-think in this place on this subject is beyond dumb.  People are not going to sell/surrender their lawfully owned guns. Criminals are always going to have access to guns.

Imprison/Execute or otherwise keep criminals away from the rest of society.

Keep legal citizens armed and secure.

 Stay safe, kids.

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19449

Posted
Posted

Weird vibes about this Arboretum shooting.  Police still won't say whether it took place inside or outside, or exactly where in the outdoor mall area.  Some random chef from a restaurant a block away is the only witness so far.  No crowd-sourced video of any kind to be found yet.  ATF was on the scene, along with FBI, due to reports of explosives, then they left soon after with no comment.  Interim police chief barely on the job 15 minutes has to deal with this, and no information has come to light 12 hours later.  Not even the usual, "Uh, lemme tell you about ballistics and mental health."  This is a strange one.  I'm sure a data dump will come out today (Friday) at 6:00p when nobody is looking.  But this is odd to say the least.  

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Goofyboy

Goofyboy 3269

Posted
Posted
I just wish that there was some way that I could say "Thanks for the gang bang" without violating "the rules" about needing to post pics about this subject!  So many negs, so little time.
The group-think in this place on this subject is beyond dumb.  People are not going to sell/surrender their lawfully owned guns. Criminals are always going to have access to guns.
Imprison/Execute or otherwise keep criminals away from the rest of society.
Keep legal citizens armed and secure.
 Stay safe, kids.

The Uvalde killer was a legal citizen that was legally armed. He legally purchased two AR platform rifles from a federally licensed gun store on two days: May 17 — just a day after his birthday — and May 20, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said. Hip hip hooray for legally armed citizens.
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dieucla98

dieucla98 2942

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I just wish that there was some way that I could say "Thanks for the gang bang" without violating "the rules" about needing to post pics about this subject!  So many negs, so little time.

The group-think in this place on this subject is beyond dumb.  People are not going to sell/surrender their lawfully owned guns. Criminals are always going to have access to guns.

Imprison/Execute or otherwise keep criminals away from the rest of society.

Keep legal citizens armed and secure.

 Stay safe, kids.

You're right this place is dumb. Thanks for contributing.

You're not right that people won't surrender their guns. Some will, some won't. Precedence from other countries that went through this provides evidence for this.

You're mostly right, criminals will, likely, figure out a way to get guns. But it will be a lot tougher for them to do so and the net effect is less guns in the hands of criminals. Again, precedence from other countries that went through this provides evidence for this.

We do not need to keep legal citizens armed in order for them to be secured. Again, precedence from other countries that went through this provides evidence for this. In fact, precedence from other countries would lead a rational person to the conclusion that allowing enough access to firearms in order to keep legal citizens armed makes us less secured.

Our kids are not safe. Precedence from this country provides evidence for this.

Edited by dieucla98
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Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Weird vibes about this Arboretum shooting.  Police still won't say whether it took place inside or outside, or exactly where in the outdoor mall area.  Some random chef from a restaurant a block away is the only witness so far.  No crowd-sourced video of any kind to be found yet.  ATF was on the scene, along with FBI, due to reports of explosives, then they left soon after with no comment.  Interim police chief barely on the job 15 minutes has to deal with this, and no information has come to light 12 hours later.  Not even the usual, "Uh, lemme tell you about ballistics and mental health."  This is a strange one.  I'm sure a data dump will come out today (Friday) at 6:00p when nobody is looking.  But this is odd to say the least.  

Yeah, it has been strange. I saw the media staging area was at the Grace church across 360 from the Arboretum. That's wayyyyy the hell away. At this point it's not even mentioned was this a random shooting? Domestic thing? Robbery?

Edited by FirstTimeCaller
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Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Goofyboy said:


The Uvalde killer was a legal citizen that was legally armed. He legally purchased two AR platform rifles from a federally licensed gun store on two days: May 17 — just a day after his birthday — and May 20, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said. Hip hip hooray for legally armed citizens.

And he wanted to purchase earlier... but the law say he couldn't and other people wouldn't buy them for him. 

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hookemATL

hookemATL 11704

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Yeah, it has been strange. I saw the media staging area was at the Grace church across 360 from the Arboretum. That's wayyyyy the hell away. At this point it's not even mentioned was this a random shooting? Domestic thing? Robbery?

Cheesecake Factory ran out of Caramel Turtle and someone couldn’t deal. Sad!

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Posted
Posted
Just now, hookemATL said:

Cheesecake Factory ran out of Caramel Turtle and someone couldn’t deal. Sad!

In all seriousness, I saw a news story that it was at Teapioca. That and that officers showed up 7 minutes after the first call are the only details I've seen.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45665

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, dieucla98 said:

You're right this place is dumb. Thanks for contributing.

You're not right that people won't surrender their guns. Some will, some won't. Precedence from other countries that went through this provides evidence for this.

You're mostly right, criminals will, likely, figure out a way to get guns. But it will be a lot tougher for them to do so and the net effect is less guns in the hands of criminals. Again, precedence from other countries that went through this provides evidence for this.

We do not need to keep legal citizens armed in order for them to be secured. Again, precedence from other countries that went through this provides evidence for this. In fact, precedence from other countries would lead a rational person to the conclusion that allowing enough access to firearms in order to keep legal citizens armed makes us less secured.

Our kids are not safe. Precedence from this country provides evidence for this.

Keep your facts and logic outta here.  

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19449

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Dove opener this weekend, for those of you that don’t know and around the rural parts of town.  In case you hear a bit of gunfire. 

Yeah dude, I'm a "sportsmen" too.  I like to fish and camp.  This isn't about your bird shooting prowess, it's about dead kids.  But I'm sure you'll hit your bag limit and talk caliber until we all pass out from boredom.  ;)  

Every fucking September 1st, everybody is suddenly John Muir in Texas.  

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45665

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Posted
58 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Yeah dude, I'm a "sportsmen" too.  I like to fish and camp.  This isn't about your bird shooting prowess, it's about dead kids.  But I'm sure you'll hit your bag limit and talk caliber until we all pass out from boredom.  ;)  

Every fucking September 1st, everybody is suddenly John Muir in Texas.  

John Muir didn't hunt.  He detested it.

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C-Man

C-Man 27194

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

You seem like a smart guy, and very knowledgeable about insurance things, but you seem to be blinded by Dem party theology.  There has got to be more to that story.

I'll bite. Much of what you posted last night is disingenuous at best. My "slaves" comment was meant as a joke. I think. It is fatty so who can really say.

Look, I'm a gun owner. I like to bird hunt. I'm not to the point where I want to take everybody's guns. The idea that we can't 100% solve the problem today doesn't mean the answer is do nothing. You're not reading the room if you don't realize that more and more people are getting to that point as the GOP/GQP does not seem to have the slightest interest in putting in any fucking guardrails on the path to gun ownership in this country.

Let me say I'm 100% against AR-15s and weapons like this. Unless you're on the ground in Ukraine, there is just no reason that you need to be carrying an AR-15. There are reasons why it is the preferred weapon of choice for today's mass shooters. We should just not allow any new purchases on weapons like this.

Beyond that, we should have legitimate background checks and red flag laws. I don't think you should be able to walk into a store, pick out a gun and walk out with it in the same day. You want a gun? Give me all your info and we're going to do a deep dive into your history, mental health and otherwise. We're going to look at your social media. Come back in a week and you can have your gun if you pass the check. Make legitimate investment in diagnosing and treating mental illness in this country.

Yeah, I'm down with Dem theology. I was a fucking Republican until the orange ogre came on the scene and obliterated all norms in 2016. It's become completely clear that there is no shame in today's GOP. There are zero good ideas. Hell, there are barely any ideas at all other than keep their voter base riled up over non-existent stupid shit like Bud Fucking Light.

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Born to Run

Born to Run 6569

Posted
Posted
So, just to be clear, you are asking me to give up my constitutional rights?
Yes the semi-drunk dudes who wrote the constitution with a feather by candlelight imagined a need for you to mow down 30 people in under a minute.
Letting the assault weapons ban lapse has really worked out well for our children.
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23463

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I'll bite. Much of what you posted last night is disingenuous at best. My "slaves" comment was meant as a joke. I think. It is fatty so who can really say.

Look, I'm a gun owner. I like to bird hunt. I'm not to the point where I want to take everybody's guns. The idea that we can't 100% solve the problem today doesn't mean the answer is do nothing. You're not reading the room if you don't realize that more and more people are getting to that point as the GOP/GQP does not seem to have the slightest interest in putting in any fucking guardrails on the path to gun ownership in this country.

Let me say I'm 100% against AR-15s and weapons like this. Unless you're on the ground in Ukraine, there is just no reason that you need to be carrying an AR-15. There are reasons why it is the preferred weapon of choice for today's mass shooters. We should just not allow any new purchases on weapons like this.

Beyond that, we should have legitimate background checks and red flag laws. I don't think you should be able to walk into a store, pick out a gun and walk out with it in the same day. You want a gun? Give me all your info and we're going to do a deep dive into your history, mental health and otherwise. We're going to look at your social media. Come back in a week and you can have your gun if you pass the check. Make legitimate investment in diagnosing and treating mental illness in this country.

Yeah, I'm down with Dem theology. I was a fucking Republican until the orange ogre came on the scene and obliterated all norms in 2016. It's become completely clear that there is no shame in today's GOP. There are zero good ideas. Hell, there are barely any ideas at all other than keep their voter base riled up over non-existent stupid shit like Bud Fucking Light.

 

I think that there are areas that we can find common ground.

Background check for all transfers. If you transfer a weapon without one, you got to jail for a long time. At the same time, the NICS system needs to be free and accessible for all individuals that wish to do a transfer. 

Raise age limit to 21 or even 25? I am open to it. 

Red flag laws. Conceptually not opposed to this, but the devil is in the details. This idea that we are going to deep dive and screen everyone's social media, medical history, etc. on an individual basis for every transfer is just not reality-based. Shit I have been waiting 11+ months on a form 4 under a trust, and they don't do any of that stuff, it is just simple paperwork to push. That said, I do think that there is a path for red flag laws that can thread the civil liberties needle. 

Ban ARs? Nah. But I would be open to, and have suggested here previously, a pathway to move 20+ rd capacity magazines to the NFA, in exchange for taking safety devices like suppressors off the NFA. 

 

The fundamental problem here is not what the vast majority of gun owners and those that want more gun control can agree on. There are plenty of areas of agreement. Its the dysfunction of our political system that prevents any rational movement on this or any variety of other topics. 

 

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29902

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Many thanks to all of the mass neggers.  It is useful to learn how many of you lack a basic understanding of legal firearms that American citizens have a right to own. 

Semi-automatic firearms -- the kind that send a single bullet for each trigger pull have been around for the last hundred years or so. 

The normal round for an AR-15 (who's name reflects the manufacturer --Armalite -- not Assualt Rifle) is a .223 which is generally appropriate only for small game and white-tailed deer at close range.

But carry on with your scare tactics.  All the best.

Negged for disingenuity. The suggestion that the AR-15 is no different than any other semi-automatic over the last hundred years is just a lie, and you know it. The calibre of the round is not what makes the rounds used in random mass shootings as deadly as they are; it's the velocity. You know that, too.

I wish I could neg you a second time for the smug definition of what a semi-automatic is. 

You willfully distort discourse about a very serious matter. You do so with lies and pitiful semantical tricks. And you know it.

You make yourself an opponent to me. An enemy. Still, of course, I don't wish that you forget to unload your basically harmless just-fer-shootin'-rabbits AR- (It's Armalite! If you don't know that, I have a lame excuse to ignore your reasoning!)-15 and you loose a few rounds accidentally in your house. Thank goodness it would only be a .223 bullet and would do virtually no damage to you as it passed through your gut. The other round that hits your dog in the pelvis would likely be deflected by the bone. You'd hate to lose ol' Vlad. Even so, I, of course, never ever want that to happen.

spacer.png

 

Edited by RomaVicta
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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26437

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Red flag laws. Conceptually not opposed to this, but the devil is in the details. This idea that we are going to deep dive and screen everyone's social media, medical history, etc. on an individual basis for every transfer is just not reality-based.

You are correct it isn't "reality based." This is the kind of moonbat fantasy scare-tactic bullshit that has never been included in a serious red flag proposal or passed law, ever. The guvmint is only going to let you have two beers a week! (Everybody drink!)

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Shit I have been waiting 11+ months on a form 4 under a trust, and they don't do any of that stuff, it is just simple paperwork to push.

Yes you have, and I have been waiting for 6 months on a form 4 for indivuals, because gun owners are too fucking stupid as a group to lobby for important things. We'd rather indulge paranoid nonsense like the above and spend our political capital defending the rights of domestic abusers and the mentally ill to have same-day access to high capacity centerfire weapons and problem products than make our lives more convenient. 
The libs are coming for your guns! Crazy bitches are coming for your guns!
Booga Booga!

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23463

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

This is the kind of moonbat fantasy scare-tactic bullshit that has never been included in a serious red flag proposal or passed law, ever.

...

We'd rather indulge paranoid nonsense like the above

I was responding to C-Man's post where he proposed precisely what was described.  If you want to characterize his post in that way, that is your call, but I was trying to respond to that specific point and the broader post in good faith. 

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26437

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I was responding to C-Man's post where he proposed precisely what was described.  If you want to characterize his post in that way, that is your call, but I was trying to respond to that specific point and the broader post in good faith. 

Fair enough, I skimmed his post and didn't catch it. That said, I've heard that idea enough times (i.e. that property would be taken or purchases disallowed as the result lf a subjective evaluation of social media history without due process) as an argument against red flag laws that I think the point still stands.

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26437

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

The suggestion that the AR-15 is no different than any other semi-automatic over the last hundred years is just a lie, and you know it. The calibre of the round is not what makes the rounds used in random mass shootings as deadly as they are; it's the velocity. You know that, too.

I don't think this is right. Let me tell you from person experience about this: I own an AR. It's the second least useful gun I own, thanks to a mistake I made last week. It's pretty versatile, easy to accessorize and build custom, and I guess OK in brush but really isn't the best platform for anything other than tinkering, hypothetical combat applications, blasting away for grins, and violent fantasy play, mainly because of the way it looks.
Yes, the 5.56mm has some unique attributes - it's small, it leaves nasty wounds because it tumbles, and it's *relatively* cheap. But there are lots of automatic options for 5.56 that mass shooters don't use, and to not reckon with the nature of the connection between the product and the behavior seems like me to be deliberately ignoring potential avenues for dealing with the problem in a targeted way. 

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C-Man

C-Man 27194

Posted
Posted
I was responding to C-Man's post where he proposed precisely what was described.  If you want to characterize his post in that way, that is your call, but I was trying to respond to that specific point and the broader post in good faith. 

So build a system that works efficiently — I know that’s uncharted territory for bureaucratic bullshit and red tape. I mean it shouldn’t take as long as it does to get a passport (renewed or otherwise) but they’ve made it overly difficult and inefficient for some reason. Create a new government entity to do the background investigatory work. A lot of these shooters are basically forecasting their plans online. These are the clowns that should NOT be able to easily acquire firearms.
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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4639

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, C-Man said:

Give me all your info and we're going to do a deep dive into your history, mental health and otherwise. We're going to look at your social media. Come back in a week and you can have your gun if you pass the check.

Is this a good faith argument?  It currently takes a year to get hearing protection that requires a stamp.  Read: not something that fires a projectile, something that makes shooting safer.  
 

eta: you posted just before me answering.   

Edited by fattyflattie
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wildcat09

wildcat09 29346

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Is this a good faith argument?  It currently takes a year to get hearing protection that requires a stamp.  Read: not something that fires a projectile, something that makes shooting safer.  
 

eta: you posted just before me answering.   

Order in the next 3 hours and 40 minutes and you can get hearing protection tonight.

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Covri

Covri 6244

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Is this a good faith argument?  It currently takes a year to get hearing protection that requires a stamp.  Read: not something that fires a projectile, something that makes shooting safer.  
 

eta: you posted just before me answering.   

Are you referring to a suppressor as hearing protection? 

 

 

 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23463

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, C-Man said:

So build a system that works efficiently — I know that’s uncharted territory for bureaucratic bullshit and red tape. I mean it shouldn’t take as long as it does to get a passport (renewed or otherwise) but they’ve made it overly difficult and inefficient for some reason.

Agree. All in favor of universal background checks as long as they are low/no cost, accessible, and efficient. I would find moving things like 30rd magazines to the NFA acceptable as well, as long as we address the 12m turn around times and $200 tax stamps. 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23463

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I don't think this is right. Let me tell you from person experience about this: I own an AR. It's the second least useful gun I own, thanks to a mistake I made last week. It's pretty versatile, easy to accessorize and build custom, and I guess OK in brush but really isn't the best platform for anything other than tinkering, hypothetical combat applications, blasting away for grins, and violent fantasy play, mainly because of the way it looks.

I can understand your perspective, but do not share it. The AR is a very versatile gun. My son took his first deer with one. The adjustable stock (one of those parts that make it an EBR under the old AWB) makes it very well suited to size appropriately. He's got a .243 now in the safe waiting for my lazy ass to put a scope on it for this season, but it was extremely hard to find a youth sized rifle a few years back when I was looking, and the AR was a well suited stand in. I know a good number of guys that use AR platform for hunting, both for them and their younger sons. 

In the context of this discussion of mass shootings, I do not think that the semi-auto platform is the real concern. It's the magazine capacity, which is why I am open to stricter controls on magazine access.  

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royiv

royiv 9262

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Is this a good faith argument?  It currently takes a year to get hearing protection that requires a stamp.  Read: not something that fires a projectile, something that makes shooting safer.  
 

eta: you posted just before me answering.   

IDGAF about your hearing.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29346

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

wahhhh, my weapon of death is too loud! and the government makes me wait to make my loud ass thing less damaging to my sensitive ears. hoooooly shit

Government isn't making him wait at all. He's probably within a half hour of at least six different stores that sell hearing protection that don't require any governmental approval, or if he's got Prime he could get it shipped to his house today. He doesn't want hearing protection, he wants a cool looking accessory.

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