Leander HOA Decides to Ticket...err Fine Speeders.

[atomheartbevo 89666]

If they pull this off, every HOA is going to think about it, because it's a great means of revenue generation.

https://www.kxan.com/investigations/leander-hoa-to-start-ticketing-speeders-does-that-go-too-far/

Quote

A private community’s efforts to stop speeding has some drivers seeing red.

Marc Petrick wants to hit the brakes on his homeowners association’s plan to slow down drivers. He admits speeding can be a problem but he thinks the HOA’s solution, without community input, goes too far. 

“It’s an overreach,” said Petrick. “It’s something I don’t think the HOA should have the ability to do. Especially, on a public roadway.”

Quote

Last month, the Crystal Falls HOA in Leander sent residents a letter announcing it will install a portable camera and radar system to catch speeders. The HOA is considering putting the speed trap on public roads but, for now, is limiting it to private ones. Homeowners in the HOA caught speeding will be warned once and then fined up to $334 for going over the posted speed limits — even if someone else is behind the wheel of their car.

“I felt blindsided,” said Jamie Leonard, who tells KXAN she never saw this coming and had no input on the measure, which is paid for, in part, by the dues she pays to live in the community.

Quote

Leonard has concerns about how her data will be stored and says the HOA is acting “like law enforcement.”

“They have our license plates, they have our addresses, they can see when we’re coming and leaving,” she said. “I’m just not comfortable with that.”

“The residents should have been able to vote if this was a good idea or not,” she added.

Quote

The new portable camera system, called the Traffic Hawk Video Traffic Radar System, is separate from the flashing radars and not authorized by the city for use on public roads. The device, made by International Security Networks in Florida, records video and captures license plates. That data is then used to track down, identify and fine speeders who own property in the community and agreed to follow the HOA’s regulations.

Violators are not given a speeding “ticket” but rather a fine for violating the community’s rules. They’re saying it’s not a speeding ticket. They’re saying it’s a deed restriction violation,” said Petrick. “It sounds like a speeding ticket to me.”

Quote

Homeowners who are found guilty of speeding and refuse to pay can face attorney fees and liens on their property, the HOA said.

“You expect the board to be looking out for homeowners,” said Sutton. “Not gunning for them.”

[Goofyboy 3293]

The HOA can’t enforce anything on public roads. We have a no parking on the street rule and the HOA can’t enforce it. We have a no fireworks rule, but if they are shot off in the street, the HOA can’t enforce it (county property). This won’t be any different.

[atomheartbevo 89666]

3 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

The HOA can’t enforce anything on public roads. We have a no parking on the street rule and the HOA can’t enforce it. We have a no fireworks rule, but if they are shot off in the street, the HOA can’t enforce it (county property). This won’t be any different.

They can on private roads, and call it a violation of the deed restriction.  But the HOA is ambitious.

Quote

When asked if putting a speed monitoring radar and camera system on public, taxpayer-funded roads is legal, KXAN was told it is not “authorized” at the moment. 

“Under certain conditions, by way of a license agreement with HOAs, the City of Leander allows radar display signs to be used on public and private roads,” said chief of staff Mike Neu. “The agreements are established to confirm that sign types, locations, etc. are consistent with city ordinances and state traffic laws. The issue currently under review by the city is whether these Traffic Hawk devices could meet the same standard. At this time, Traffic Hawk devices have not been authorized by any existing license agreement.”

Austin attorney Patrick Sutton, who specializes in HOA law and has no connection to this case, says the HOA can put up speed detection equipment on private roads. He says it is likely illegal on public roads, unless the city agrees.

 

[conVINCEd 21469]

Fuck HOAs and fuck Crystal Falls and their shitty ass golf course.

[cactusflinthead 27598]

What would keep this from the same problem with the red light cameras? You have to be able to face your accuser. Is this going to be adjudicated in the Leander court? 

Someone is going to challenge this in court. That's if the HOA board survives an election and gets to buy the equipment.

This stinks in more than one way.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

I don't see how they can do it on private roads unless it is part of the deed restrictions.  I've never seen any deed restrictions that had that in them.

[atomheartbevo 89666]

14 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

I don't see how they can do it on private roads unless it is part of the deed restrictions.  I've never seen any deed restrictions that had that in them.

If the HOA controls said private roads, they can probably get away with it.  HOA deeds/contracts/whatever always seemed to have vague parts that could lead to this shit.

The HOA leadership didn't even give the HOA a chance to vote on this or not (had they done so, it would not have happened).

[Bevo 13577]

55 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Fuck HOAs and fuck Crystal Falls and their shitty ass golf course.

Is this Crystal Falls? We had a beautiful lot there but sold it because we wanted to live closer in.

[Dbeasy 15051]

Yes, this is my neighborhood, and yes our Board has become a giant group of Karen Nazi's. The CCR's all have clauses that give HOA's broad latitude to do things like this, on both private roads, and believe it or not, possibly public roads. An uproar from citizens has caused them to blink for now. They've stated they won't yet fine but will "collect data".

On top of that, they are now fining houses for putting up christmas lights before Thanksgiving. This HOA is gonna get their ass sued over religious freedom any day now. 

I"m on the verge of putting the whole system on trial.

[atomheartbevo 89666]

21 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I"m on the verge of putting the whole system on trial.

[High Plains Drifter 11049]

 

counter point:

fuck speeders in residential areas. I say burn their cars (with them still in it.)

 

 

[Brothahorn 10087]

I wish a HO-A would write me a ticket!

[conVINCEd 21469]

13 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

counter point:

fuck speeders in residential areas. I say burn their cars (with them still in it.)

 

 

Counter counter point:  most of these people aren’t actually speeding, there just going faster than Karen is comfortable with while her spawn are within 50 feet of the street.  I’ve received some dirty looks while I was going 15 mph.  The teenagers blasting through at 50 mph are rare, and there are better ways to handle that.

[HornOnTheBayou 8922]

17 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

counter point:

fuck speeders in residential areas. I say burn their cars (with them still in it.)

 

 

I completely agree if they are actually speeding. But if I get a ticket for going 31 down the street, then I'm gonna go Aldo Raine on some HOA Nazis.

[Bevo 13577]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

Yes, this is my neighborhood, and yes our Board has become a giant group of Karen Nazi's. The CCR's all have clauses that give HOA's broad latitude to do things like this, on both private roads, and believe it or not, possibly public roads. An uproar from citizens has caused them to blink for now. They've stated they won't yet fine but will "collect data".

On top of that, they are now fining houses for putting up christmas lights before Thanksgiving. This HOA is gonna get their ass sued over religious freedom any day now. 

I"m on the verge of putting the whole system on trial.

Our lot was in Grand Mesa. It did have beautiful views of the hills with a running creek and waterfall behind it. Now they have built houses on Treviso on the top of those hills. Sounds like we made the right decision to sell. I forgot but I assume it is Goodwin Management in Crystal Falls - and they manage most of the big subdivisions around town. Basically what that means is if it sticks in Crystal Falls, a bunch of subdivisions may follow. What I don't get is every fucking person who lives in the subdivision has to be livid. That can't be good for the HOA.

[PRONG HORN 3146]

2 hours ago, Goofyboy said:

The HOA can’t enforce anything on public roads. We have a no parking on the street rule and the HOA can’t enforce it. We have a no fireworks rule, but if they are shot off in the street, the HOA can’t enforce it (county property). This won’t be any different.

 

What do you mean they can't enforce it?  They can still fine you.  They have their own laws that people agree to when they decide to live there.  

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Counter counter point:  most of these people aren’t actually speeding, there just going faster than Karen is comfortable with while her spawn are within 50 feet of the street.  I’ve received some dirty looks while I was going 15 mph.  The teenagers blasting through at 50 mph are rare, and there are better ways to handle that.

My favorite Act Against Karen ever was straight up running running over some bitch's plastic stop sign she put in the middle of the road in our old neighborhood, while going the speed limit, and with my 2 sons in the car watching it all.

"Boys if you make a law, you had better be able to enforce it.  Otherwise, Shut the fuck up."   or something to that effect.

[elfenix 34240]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

On top of that, they are now fining houses for putting up christmas lights before Thanksgiving.

doing the lord's work

[MrBig 5398]

How do they access the data about the vehicles to fine them? Do they make homeowners register their cars with the HOA?

[TKthunder2 4991]

Fuck HOAs

[conVINCEd 21469]

1 minute ago, MrBig said:

How do they access the data about the vehicles to fine them? Do they make homeowners register their cars with the HOA?

There will be an old man on the board willing and able to wander the neighborhood and check plates.  Or they could just get a $10/month subscription to public data.

[utee94 15823]

3 minutes ago, MrBig said:

How do they access the data about the vehicles to fine them? Do they make homeowners register their cars with the HOA?

License plates are public record, and they cross-reference against HOA membership.

 

[deadshank 24653]

5 minutes ago, slorch said:

My favorite Act Against Karen ever was straight up running running over some bitch's plastic stop sign she put in the middle of the road in our old neighborhood, while going the speed limit, and with my 2 sons in the car watching it all.

"Boys if you make a law, you had better be able to enforce it.  Otherwise, Shut the fuck up."   or something to that effect.

I just want to be near you.  

[MrBig 5398]

Is the HOA going to set up a camera to record the people ripping down the radar/camera setup?

 

[Goofyboy 3293]

 
What do you mean they can't enforce it?  They can still fine you.  They have their own laws that people agree to when they decide to live there.  

It’s on public land. The HOA has no jurisdiction on land that is not in the HOA. My neighborhood is a mix - HOA homes, HOA land, county roads and MUD areas. MUD land has its own rules that HOA rules do not apply. It’s the same reason an HOA can’t put in speed bumps on our streets - they are county streets.

The private roads are a totally different issue. I’m only speaking to the public roads.

[Sandman 3403]

I would say that I'd sell my house if this shit went into effect but then I'd never buy a house in an HOA area to begin with.

[Huckleberry 32860]

4 hours ago, Goofyboy said:

The HOA can’t enforce anything on public roads. We have a no parking on the street rule and the HOA can’t enforce it. We have a no fireworks rule, but if they are shot off in the street, the HOA can’t enforce it (county property). This won’t be any different.

This isn't actually true. Lots of HOAs think it's true, but if you sign a contract saying you're not going to do something it doesn't matter if it's legal to do it. I can sign a contract with my employer that says I won't eat fast food under penalty of a $500 fine for each offense. If I eat fast food and they find out then I owe them $500. It doesn't matter if I ate it in a public park.

I once had an attorney who moved to Texas from out of state tell me what you posted above and then I asked him for the Texas court case that he was so sure existed. It doesn't.

Now certainly the HOA can't fine a visitor or a non-party to the contract. But when you sign a valid and legal contract then you are subject to its requirements.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Huckleberry

[HalfSack Horn 149]

1 hour ago, MrBig said:

How do they access the data about the vehicles to fine them? Do they make homeowners register their cars with the HOA?

Grand Mesa, which is the private community in Crystal Falls, is the gated portion where the HOA owns the roads.  The gates have scanners to read barcodes on the car windows to open them.  Those barcodes are registered with a license plate.  So the HOA has all of that info also.  

[fattyflattie 4639]

1 hour ago, Goofyboy said:

It’s on public land. The HOA has no jurisdiction on land that is not in the HOA. My neighborhood is a mix - HOA homes, HOA land, county roads and MUD areas. MUD land has its own rules that HOA rules do not apply. It’s the same reason an HOA can’t put in speed bumps on our streets - they are county streets.

The private roads are a totally different issue. I’m only speaking to the public roads.

I wish I would have known when you were running for office; I saw those posts very late.  Speeding has gotten a bit out of control on our side of the hood lately, imo. Still don’t think it’s right for any HOA to handle it though. 

[Victor Lazlo 1777]

3 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

I"m on the verge of putting the whole system on trial.

We’re not going to sit here and listen to you

[Biff Tannen 45685]

3 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

On top of that, they are now fining houses for putting up christmas lights before Thanksgiving.

See, now I’m conflicted. 

[utee94 15823]

35 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

This isn't actually true. Lots of HOAs think it's true, but if you sign a contract saying you're not going to do something it doesn't matter if it's legal to do it. I can sign a contract with my employer that says I won't eat fast food under penalty of a $500 fine for each offense. If I eat fast food and they find out then I owe them $500. It doesn't matter if I ate it in a public park.

I once had an attorney who moved to Texas from out of state tell me what you posted above and then I asked him for the Texas court case that he was so sure existed. It doesn't.

Now certainly the HOA can't fine a visitor or a non-party to the contract. But when you sign a valid and legal contract then you are subject to its requirements.

But it has to be in the contract that you signed.  My HOA contract has rules against parking on the street overnight, and parking more than 2 cars in your driveway, and the exact specs for building or rebulding your fence, and even explicit rules for keeping the lawn looking nice.  But it doesn't have any wording about speed limits.  I suppose the assumption was that the city would enforce those, which is fine, but either way there is no language in the contract I signed with my HOA, regarding speed limits on the streets.

 

[conVINCEd 21469]

2 minutes ago, utee94 said:

But it has to be in the contract that you signed.  My HOA contract has rules against parking on the street overnight, and parking more than 2 cars in your driveway, and the exact specs for building or rebulding your fence, and even explicit rules for keeping the lawn looking nice.  But it doesn't have any wording about speed limits.  I suppose the assumption was that the city would enforce those, which is fine, but either way there is no language in the contract I signed with my HOA, regarding speed limits on the streets.

 

Some lawyer in the hood will need to be pissed off enough to combat this on their own dime, because they’re is probably not a pot of gold at the end of this rainbow.

[Huckleberry 32860]

32 minutes ago, utee94 said:

But it has to be in the contract that you signed.  My HOA contract has rules against parking on the street overnight, and parking more than 2 cars in your driveway, and the exact specs for building or rebulding your fence, and even explicit rules for keeping the lawn looking nice.  But it doesn't have any wording about speed limits.  I suppose the assumption was that the city would enforce those, which is fine, but either way there is no language in the contract I signed with my HOA, regarding speed limits on the streets.

 

I agree with you there, but others have made it sound like this HOA's governing documents have some clauses that give the HOA leeway on the private streets. That's dangerous for what are now obvious reasons.

[MrBig 5398]

41 minutes ago, utee94 said:

But it has to be in the contract that you signed.  My HOA contract has rules against parking on the street overnight, and parking more than 2 cars in your driveway, and the exact specs for building or rebulding your fence, and even explicit rules for keeping the lawn looking nice.  But it doesn't have any wording about speed limits.  I suppose the assumption was that the city would enforce those, which is fine, but either way there is no language in the contract I signed with my HOA, regarding speed limits on the streets.

 

This right here. If when you initially bought the house, there was no speeding clause in the deed restrictions, then how can it be enforced? Do the HOAs make all residents sign to adopt a new amendment putting these deed restrictions relating to speeding as part of their original contract? 

[atomheartbevo 89666]

3 hours ago, Bevo said:

I forgot but I assume it is Goodwin Management in Crystal Falls - and they manage most of the big subdivisions around town. Basically what that means is if it sticks in Crystal Falls, a bunch of subdivisions may follow.

I saw that comment elsewhere, that they are floating this balloon out there - it's a helluva revenue generator.

3 hours ago, Bevo said:

What I don't get is every fucking person who lives in the subdivision has to be livid. That can't be good for the HOA.

This too, but that requires people in the subdivision to actually attend the HOA meetings.  $300+ an incident is going to cause a shitstorm though.

And having worked with HOAs before, and having lived in one, it always seemed like some HOA board member had their finger in some pie to make themselves some money on the side, whether it was picking out the pool management company or lawn maintenance or whatever.  

With that said, you can fuck around with HOAs in subdivisions, etc..  Had friends who, against their better judgement, moved to a fairly strict HOA.  They started getting dinged over stupid shit, so they got a copy of the member list, copied the HOA letterhead from their letters and made a template and went to town on it.  They went about their normal morning and evening walks subtly making note of which homes broke which regulations (basically they'd pick a different rule or regulation every day and then look for houses breaking said regulation).  They then sent out a few hundred notices and managed to get pretty much every home within the HOA, listing the regulations they broke, and that this was just a friendly warning, but the HOA leadership would be watching like a hawk because they were concerned that these houses were going to hurt the subdivisions' image, etc. and that they would be taking photographs of their lawns, etc, from now on, and there would be fines, etc. in the future.  

I think it cost them around $150 to mail all of those notices, but they said the next HOA meeting was off the rails and completely worth it.  

[swraith 346]

^^^ That actually sounds like a fun way to spend $150.

[Dbeasy 15051]

Answers, comments to some of the questions about this HOA:

They claim there is a clause in the CCR that gives the Board the right to do the speeding rule, even though speeding isn’t called out specifically. I can’t find it, and am skeptical, but apparently this has held up in various court challenges in other neighborhoods. Again, I’m skeptical. If I were a lawyer, I’d challenge it in court just for a release of my frustration. 

The Board has also started fining such minimal shit like those little flags (about 12x18”) out in their front garden beds, even if they are benign images like a dove. 

Goodwin Management is the manager, and yes they are plotting this money grab in other Austin neighborhoods. Coming to your neighborhood soon.

We had a rash of car break-ins from a roving gang of thieves from Florida. They kept coming back every few months and it was getting annoying. The Board hired a security guard to roam the neighborhoods at night.  Now he/she spends their time at 2 am on the morning writing up violations instead.  An example is putting out the trash cans hours early for trash pickup, or not immediately removing trash cans after pickup.  

I despise this HOA. The are drunk on power. People suck.

 

 

[woohorn 1131]

Thought red light cams never made their revenue projections because people know where they are.

Aren't these speed cameras going to be ineffective once registered residents know where they are?

[TornACL 7698]

10 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Now he/she spends their time at 2 am on the morning writing up violations instead.  An example is putting out the trash cans hours early for trash pickup, or not immediately removing trash cans after pickup.  

In my old neighborhood (HOA) I came home at 1030pm to find a citation on my door for leaving my trash cans in the street on the day of trash pickup. I had worked in the office until 10pm that day on a project. 

In my current neighborhood (no HOA) neighbors will just move your trash cans to your garage door or around the side of the house for you if they're sitting out after dark. I've done it for others and they've done it for me. 

HOAs are a wonderland for passive aggressive fagets and I will never live in one again. 

[Orange&White 5528]

12 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

counter point:

fuck speeders in residential areas. I say burn their cars (with them still in it.)

 

 

 

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

This is easily fixed with spray paint.  Budget isn’t unlimited for replacement. 

[Orange&White 5528]

9 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

This is easily fixed with spray paint.  Budget isn’t unlimited for replacement. 

"Due to increased vandalism in the community, the HOA will need to collect an additional assessment of $100 form each property for the next six months. We apologize to the community, but as stewards of the community we need to keep our neighborhood free of graffiti and property damage."

[Goofyboy 3293]

This isn't actually true. Lots of HOAs think it's true, but if you sign a contract saying you're not going to do something it doesn't matter if it's legal to do it. I can sign a contract with my employer that says I won't eat fast food under penalty of a $500 fine for each offense. If I eat fast food and they find out then I owe them $500. It doesn't matter if I ate it in a public park.
I once had an attorney who moved to Texas from out of state tell me what you posted above and then I asked him for the Texas court case that he was so sure existed. It doesn't.
Now certainly the HOA can't fine a visitor or a non-party to the contract. But when you sign a valid and legal contract then you are subject to its requirements.

I’m going off of what our HOA’s lawyer has told the board members. If you could help me prove them wrong, I would be much appreciative. I have it out for our board because they pick and choose what rules to enforce. If you bring up changing by-laws, their answer is it’s too hard and move on. I just want it consistent.

[atomheartbevo 89666]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

The Board has also started fining such minimal shit like those little flags (about 12x18”) out in their front garden beds, even if they are benign images like a dove. 

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

Goodwin Management is the manager, and yes they are plotting this money grab in other Austin neighborhoods. Coming to your neighborhood soon.

Yep, sounds like they just got caught based on stuff being said elsewhere.  

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

23 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

"Due to increased vandalism in the community, the HOA will need to collect an additional assessment of $100 form each property for the next six months. We apologize to the community, but as stewards of the community we need to keep our neighborhood free of graffiti and property damage."

If you are speeding that just saved you at least $234 based on the OP. 

[Nivek 16930]

13 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

Counter counter point:  most of these people aren’t actually speeding, there just going faster than Karen is comfortable with while her spawn are within 50 feet of the street.  I’ve received some dirty looks while I was going 15 mph.  The teenagers blasting through at 50 mph are rare, and there are better ways to handle that.

It's not the teenagers.  It is the typically 40-60 yr old women in SUVs that blast through my neighborhood while the kids are out playing.    If I could build a radar assisted spike strip, I would.   

[Francisco 2.0 32393]

So, so glad that my tiny isolated cul-de-sac of 16 homes with no future expansion and no way to tie our single street into our surrounding HOA dominated subdivisions is HOA free.

 

 

 

 

[South Austin 52503]

So, so glad my neighborhood in Brentwood isn't deed restricted.  Granted that every fifth home looks like a dilapidated crack house, but its only a matter of time before the Californians raze those fuckers down and redevelop!

[Bevo 13577]

29 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

I’m going off of what our HOA’s lawyer has told the board members. If you could help me prove them wrong, I would be much appreciative. I have it out for our board because they pick and choose what rules to enforce. If you bring up changing by-laws, their answer is it’s too hard and move on. I just want it consistent.

He is an attorney and what he is stating is a matter of contract law. It isn't specific to HOAs but is a broad tenet of contract law. I'm not an attorney but I have slept with a few law students back in the day. One was at a wedding in South Texas but I can't remember if it was at a Holiday Inn. Hopefully, my expertise helps.