Tell Me About Texas a&m

[RomaVicta 30017]

10 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

https://texags.com/forums/5/topics/3110861

Quote

This country is founded on courage and liberty. If you prefer fear, do so unilaterally, but don't impose it on me.

Fear is currently being used by those with a political agenda to control the population and throttle the economy. We should not go along with that.

God bless you and your family.

 

The above photo accompanied an opinion piece in favor of hazing in the corps.

Quote

The War on Hazing is a politically correct effort to target the unique culture within the Corps by claiming the tradition is hurtful. I never felt harmed by my upperclassmen— their aim was to ensure that only the members they thought belonged in the unit remained. Without hazing, how can my experience be validated by former members of the Corps? Without being been forced to exercise outside of the standard 5 opportunities a week, Corps Brass would be a participation trophy. Personal servitude let me know which upperclassmen truly cared about me, making sure to waste my time having me do favors for them, regardless of my upcoming exams.

I think we can trust the abilities of these finely trained men to make sober decisions for the good of all.

[Randolph Duke 4034]

2 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

 

The above photo accompanied an opinion piece in favor of hazing in the corps.

I think we can trust the abilities of these finely trained men to make sober decisions for the good of all.

Can you edit to include sources for those excerpts.

Asking for a friend.

[Beau Vine 54429]

12 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

Can you edit to include sources for those excerpts.

Asking for a friend.

Google ain't hard Randy: https://mugdown.com/2016/04/13/opinion-i-support-hazing/

[Iceman 2725]

"we cannot properly train people without being able to humiliate, denigrate, and emasculate them"

Don't ever stop being you, aggy.   It's one thing to embrace the 'tough love' approach; but everyone knows that has a double meaning for them.

[Longhorn Fever 267]

11 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

https://texags.com/forums/5/topics/3110861

 

2 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Lollololol holy shit

 

19 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

 

The above photo accompanied an opinion piece in favor of hazing in the corps.

I think we can trust the abilities of these finely trained men to make sober decisions for the good of all.

 

16 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

Can you edit to include sources for those excerpts.

Asking for a friend.

I googled, too. I am not digging around The Mugdown any further, but I hope to high heaven that that site is The Onion for aggies. It is always hard to tell with aggies, but that can’t be real.

[Beau Vine 54429]

OK, it says it's satire.  But you're not supposed to satirize  using reality.

 

Quote

With Texas A&M University’s transition to online classes, grading standards have reportedly become increasingly lax. Students in the university’s most notoriously difficult classes are now finding it difficult to fail, and students in less rigorous coursework are finding themselves with a similarly lighter workload. While a blessing to some, it is proving to be an area of concern for others.

“I’ve been taking the same dumb creative arts class for a year and a half now, and I didn’t plan on changing that,” said Todd Collins, a fifth-year business major. Despite his best efforts, Collins is on track to receive his degree this summer.

Collins’ plan for a failing grade was thwarted by the administration’s new policies to benefit those most affected by the conditions of quarantine. Collins claims he was never made aware of these changing policies, a fact verified by the 32,000 unread emails on his student email account.

The ongoing crisis is throwing off the five-year plans of tens of students. In addition to the stress of inadvertent graduation, these new regulations also threaten to expose vulnerable students like Collins to the job market.

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Beau Vine

[Beau Vine 54429]

This is not satire:
 

Quote

Taylor Baumann: “Careful. You might accidentally rape her. You never know.”

Nick Page: “Is her mom hot? I feel like I remember she was.”  

These comments — among others — were messages within a GroupMe conversation allegedly between some current and former members of A&M Student Senate, referring to immediate family members of Student Body President Hannah Wimberly. 

Wimberly presented them to Student Senate during its Wednesday meeting, calling out specifically two student senators — economics senior Taylor Baumann and student services chair and aerospace engineering graduate student Nick Page. 

Nick Page, a student senator, could not confirm that it was him the GroupMe.  

Photo by Kevin Chou

Taylor Baumann was one of the senators found in the GroupMe "Sharps Army."

Photo by Kevin Chou

Following Wimberly’s presentation of the messages, a vote of no confidence was called by student senator Aubre Dean against Page, which was seconded and moved the body into a period of executive session. Since Page holds a leadership position within Student Senate, the vote of no confidence meant — if passed — that the student senators no longer hold faith in the leader. The vote of no confidence passed 66-4-2 and Page was immediately stripped of his title of student services chair. 

The Battalion has not been able to confirm that each of the people in the GroupMe are the same people whose names appear in the chat — which does allow people to edit their names and pictures — however Baumann confirmed to Wimberly in a private meeting following the presentation that he did send the messages. 

Despite Page’s removal from his position as chair of student services following the presentation, the subcommittee chair and members of the Sexual Assault Committee — organized by Page — were confirmed by Senate. Page did not confirm or deny that he sent the messages. 

“Politics is a game,” Page said in a statement sent to The Battalion following the meeting. “As you can see by our national election, there are typically two sides. In this game, I lost. The day I was appointing a subcommittee on sexual assault, pictures were touted to paint me in a horrific light, providing only ‘proof’ no judge [or] jury would allow.”

Baumann said in a written statement sent to The Battalion following the meeting that he regretted sending the messages.

“I profusely apologize for the comments that I had made,” Baumann said. “In addition, I have directly apologized to those that I hurt most directly. There is absolutely no excuse, no justifiable reason, for making such deplorable, disgusting comments that completely disrespect the inherent worth of another human being. As an Aggie and as a Christian, I have openly violated Aggie core values as well as my personal values. Moving forward, I will always speak with respect, and I will continue to serve the student body as best as I can.”

Wimberly showed a slideshow containing the screenshots she had been sent of the thread of messages which began with a picture of Wimberly herself accompanied by a message by Chris Russo — the Student Senate speaker for the 66th Session — which said, “Make Aggie Girls Hot Again.”  The GroupMe is named “Sharps Army,” an apparent reference to A&M System Chancellor John Sharp. 

Wimberly’s sister was then brought into the conversation, where she was compared to a pig. Then a joke was written about raping her and other comparative comments were made. Wimberly’s mother was also brought up. The six screenshots Wimberly presented include some redactions made to protect the identity of certain people involved.

Wimberly said she was not bothered by comments made about her, but rather comments made about her family. 

“Let me be as straightforward as possible: This is disgusting,” Wimberly said. “And let me clarify again — I could care less when you talk about me. But to talk about a ... girl, and to talk about raping her is probably the most egregious behavior that I can possibly imagine.” 

Executive chief of staff Emma Douglas, who recently revealed to senate she had been sexually assaulted, was specifically referenced in the GroupMe.

“Is there a Hannah Douglas???” a message sent by Nick Page read. 

“Careful. You might accidentally rape her. You never know.”

“Or at least when it would be convent [sic.] for her,” two separate messages sent by Taylor Baumann read. 

Carlos Sonka, who was the rules and regulations chair of the 68th Session, denied involvement in the GroupMe, despite his name appearing within the group message. 

Douglas said she didn’t know she had been mentioned in the GroupMe until Wimberly presented the screenshots. She said the actions were disgusting and appropriate actions should be taken by the senate regarding the statements from Page and Baumann.

“It was quite shocking — it was a slap in the face and disgusting. I hope they take care of the issue … [Baumann and Page] don’t take it seriously — they don’t take sexual assault seriously,” Douglas said. “I hope both of them get impeached. I hope Senate sends a message, not only to senators but also to [the] constituents.”

Executive cabinet member Landon Woods said it is the Senate’s job to decide what the next step is for the two senators.

“They are all elected student leaders and are each responsible for holding each other accountable,” Woods said.

Current Student Senate Speaker Joseph Hood said the actions taken Wednesday were appropriate. 

“I find the things said about SBP Wimberly and her family to be deplorable, and Student Senate does not stand for that, and I think that was demonstrated tonight,” Hood said.

Hood said he cannot comment in regards to whether or not further action will be taken against Baumann and Page in the next Student Senate meeting, which takes place Oct. 19. 

At the end of her emotionally charged presentation, Wimberly looked directly at both Baumann and Page as she said her closing statements. 

“Let me make this absolutely clear — you have free speech,” Wimberly said. “And you can also suffer the consequences of your free speech.”

Some identifying information has been omitted from this article to protect the identity of individuals involved. All Senate meetings are available to watch via the TAMU Senate YouTube channel.

 

[RomaVicta 30017]

38 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

Can you edit to include sources for those excerpts.

Asking for a friend.

The Aggie standing up for freedom on Texags.

The hazing defense is from The Mugdown which, I now notice, claims to be an Aggie satirical publication. Naturally, I can't tell if it's satire or legit. The bio for the author indicates that it's written in jest. Sorry. Not really sorry.

[Longhorn Fever 267]

11 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

https://texags.com/forums/5/topics/3110861

 

2 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Lollololol holy shit

 

19 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

 

The above photo accompanied an opinion piece in favor of hazing in the corps.

I think we can trust the abilities of these finely trained men to make sober decisions for the good of all.

 

16 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

Can you edit to include sources for those excerpts.

Asking for a friend.

I googled, too. I am not digging around The Mugdown any further, but I hope to high heaven that that site is The Onion for aggies. It is always hard to tell with aggies, but that can’t be real.

[Burt Macklin 19053]

12 hours ago, markstanco said:

13 hours ago, blacklab said:

 

Tate isn't really fair on that meme. He was a commit for about 20 minutes Ike every place else.

JFC stanco how do you even fuck up giving aggy shit?! 
 

aggy made the original meme and included Tate in it while he was just a commit. It’s absolutely fair to make fun of them for it.
 

Taylor Hamm breaking the story that Tater was going to enroll a year early when Martell never even said that was the absolute best part. I miss Hamm covering A&M recruiting. 

[Burt Macklin 19053]

12 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

https://texags.com/forums/5/topics/3110861

This may be the least surprising thing I’ve ever seen. I had already assumed their board was full of this kind of shit before clicking the link.
 

I just wish we could give them what they want and let them all crowd into their shitty stadium right now, provided they  waive the right to go to a hospital or interact with non-aggys of course. I’m sure there’s plenty of good ole Ag vets that can fix them right up. This thing did start with pigs after all. 

[Randolph Duke 4034]

2 hours ago, Randolph Duke said:

Lol.

If you are on Twitter, follow David Barron from the Houston Chron for the next few days. @dfbarron

You will understand when the time is right.

 

And "Boom!" goes the dynamite!

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/college/article/Texas-A-M-Alabama-book-12th-man-legal-fight-15264638.php?utm_campaign=CMS Sharing Tools (Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

History of Texas A&M's 12th Man challenged amid legal battle with school

David Barron , Houston Chronicle May 12, 2020 Updated: May 12, 2020 12:49 p.m.

 

An Alabama book publisher has upped the ante in his three-year legal dispute with Texas A&M by asking a judge to consider evidence he says will strike at the historical foundations of the Aggies’ cherished 12th Man tradition.

Mike Bynum of Birmingham, Ala., says that two 1921 newspaper stories his attorneys filed as part of a proposed motion in U.S. District Court in Houston will show that A&M has misstated the facts surrounding the role of Texas A&M football and basketball player E. King Gill in the Jan. 2, 1922, Dixie Classic football game in Dallas.

The 1922 game is famous in Aggies lore because Gill was summoned from the stands at Fair Park Stadium to join the undermanned A&M bench during a game against Centre College.

Gill did not play, but his willingness to suit up when called upon is a cherished tradition at A&M, which has trademarked the 12th Man phrase with a description that concludes, “When the game ended, Gill was the only man left standing on the sidelines for Texas A&M.”

Bynum, however, has submitted copies of December 1921 stories in The Dallas Morning News and The Houston Post that said A&M brought 25 players to Dallas for the Dixie Classic — not 16 or 18, as cited in previous accounts — and thus had sufficient manpower available even before Gill was summoned from the stands.

“Those (1922 newspaper stories) are the best sources out there, and they should rule the day,” Bynum said.

Based on the accounts of the 25-man roster, Bynum said, the Aggies had at least nine healthy players on the bench before Gill’s arrival.

Accounts of the game agree that the Aggies used 15 players — 11 starters plus four subs for injured players — in the first half. A 16th player was not in uniform because of an injury suffered during pregame practice in Dallas. With the exception of Gill, no mention has been found of other players who did not enter the game.

“Nevertheless, TAMU probably saw great value in embellishing on the historical facts, or failed to confirm them, to improve the story’s impact and to assert rights as the only team that could truly lay claim to a ‘12th Man’ story,” his attorneys said.

Previous suit against A&M

Bynum’s claim casting doubt on the accuracy of the 12th Man origin story is but another twist in his long-running copyright infringement lawsuit concerning a book that he copyrighted in 2010 and planned to publish about Gill and the 12th Man tradition.

The two newspaper stories citing the 25-man roster are included in a proposed second amended petition that Bynum’s attorneys hope will be approved by U.S. District Judge Andrew Hanen.

Originally filed in 2017 against the A&M athletic department, the fund-raising 12th Man Foundation and three A&M employees, the suit’s only remaining defendant is Brad Marquardt, an assistant sports information director who according to the suit had Bynum’s unpublished book about Gill retyped and posted on an A&M website without Bynum’s knowledge or permission in 2014.

Bynum is asking the judge to restore the 12th Man Foundation, the A&M athletic department and two other current and former A&M employees as defendants and to restore a portion of the suit accusing defendants of unconstitutional taking of Bynum’s property.

His attorneys also claim that the case should be allowed to move forward with the additional defendants and charges based on the Supreme Court’s recent decision in a similar case in Georgia.

That decision, they said, determined that state entities that take property without due process of law can still be sued even though they retain sovereign immunity against lawsuits.

History of the 12th Man

For latecomers to the 12th Man story, Gill was a member of the A&M football team in 1921 but was not included on the roster that traveled to Dallas in late December to play Centre College.

Gill met the team in Dallas, his home town, and rode to Fair Park Stadium with A&M coach D.X. Bible. When they arrived, he was asked to serve as a press box spotter for Jinx Tucker of the Waco Tribune-Herald.

However, with the Aggies having used four substitutes during the first half, Bible summoned Gill to the sidelines, where he remained as the Aggies went on to win 22-14.

The story became a popular part of A&M culture via a radio broadcast in 1939, the year the Aggies won their only national championship, and became a tentpole for A&M’s corporate identity and for its athletics fund-raising arm, which according to Bynum has raised more than $1 billion since 2001.

A&M obtained a trademark for the phrase 12th Man in 1990 and has filed assorted legal actions over the years to enforce its mark, including cases against the NFL’s Seattle Seahawks and Indianapolis Colts.

Bynum, however, notes that the phrase was in use prior to 1922 in American football and that its use in English cricket dates back to the 19th century.

Games during Gill's era were not staffed by the array of statisticians that monitor modern games. Bynum, however, said that A&M is guilty of more than an oversight in claiming that Gill was the only man available to play in the Dixie Classic.

“It’s one thing to tell a friendly lie,” he said. “It’s another to raise money telling this lie, and that has what Texas A&M and the 12th Man Foundation have been doing for years.”

In defense of 12th Man history

Texas A&M’s media representatives referred inquiries about the history of the 12th Man story to John Adams, a Texas A&M former student who has written several books about the university and plans to publish a book on the Dixie Classic next January to mark its 100th anniversary.

Adams, who said he years ago interviewed Gill, who died in 1976, and Joe Utay, the former Texas A&M player who organized the Dixie Classic, stands firmly with the traditional A&M tale that A&M brought 16 players to Dallas, not including Gill, and that Gill was the only healthy player available to play had the Aggies suffered another injury.

Regarding the published stories in the Dallas and Houston papers citing 25 players who made the trip to Dallas, Adams said, “I have no idea where they got those numbers. I think they made them up.”

He also takes issue with the 1974 book “The Twelfth Man: A Story of Texas A&M Football” by longtime Cotton Bowl executive Wilbur Evans and former A&M sports information director H.B. McElroy, published in 1974, that says the Aggies brought 18 players to Dallas.

If correct, the 18-man roster, which also was cited in a 1956 Houston Press story about Gill, would mean that two players in addition to Gill were available to play in the Dixie Classic after the first-half injuries.

Adams believes confusion over the Aggies’ roster size may stem from a roster of 24 names included in the game program, which he said was printed in December 1921.

Regarding A&M's statement in its trademark filing that Gill was the only man available to play, Adams said some of the injured players may have remained in uniform on the sidelines and perhaps could have re-entered to prevent the Aggies from forfeiting the game.

“But if you believe that, you’re really getting into the weeds,” he said. “I have accounted for 16 players, and I have looked for the 17th and 18th players (cited in the Evans-McElroy book) and haven’t found them.”

Bynum, meanwhile, chooses to lean on the 1974 book and the 1921 newspaper accounts to assert the case that Gill, at best, was the Aggies’ 16th man.

“Texas A&M has continued to tell this lie to raise their importance on the American sports stage and for financial fund-raising and promoting the value of a trademark, which they lied to obtain,” he said.

“The $1 billion that A&M has raised through the 12th Man Foundation has been based on a lie.”

A writer’s history

Bynum is best known in Texas sports circles as editor of the book “King Football,” a history of Texas high school football that included two significant corrections to the historical record.

One included the revelation that Gordon Wood, the longtime high school coach who was believed to be the first Texas coach to compile 400 career victories, actually had compiled just 394.

The second was that the first known game involving a Texas high school team occurred not in 1894, when a team from Galveston Ball played Texas A&M, but in 1892, when Ball played a team coached by John Sealy known as the Galveston Rugbys.

Bynum said he had been working on a book about the 12th Man origin story for more than a decade when he gave his research to Whit Canning, a longtime writer for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, to compose the story.

He said in his lawsuit that he submitted the story, which designated him as the owner of the copyright, to Marquardt in 2010 while seeking assistance for photos from the Dixie Classic.

Marquardt, in an email to Bynum, said he was asked in January 2014 to provide a story that detailed A&M’s 12th Man history to counter the publicity being generated by the Seattle Seahawks, who had licensed the number “12” from A&M as part of its game-day presentation.

Marquardt said he found Bynum’s manuscript in his files, had it retyped and published without informing Bynum of his plans.

Original ruling on suit

Judge Hanen in April 2019 said the A&M athletic department could not be sued because it does not have a legal existence separate from the university, which says it has sovereign immunity against lawsuits. He also said Bynum had not exhausted his potential remedies against the university in state court.

The 12th Man Foundation was dropped because Hanen said the group had no supervisory authority over Marquardt. Hanen also dropped as defendants Alan Cannon, the school’s sports information director, and Lane Stephenson, former director of the A&M news and information service.

Bynum’s motion filed this week seeks to have all four restored as defendants and to restore the charge that defendants violated federal law by taking property without compensation.

While he continues his lawsuit against what he says was A&M’s unlawful taking of his property, Bynum said he had no desire to diminish Gill’s role in A&M history.

“King Gill always tried to downplay all of this but considered it an honor and thought it was good for Texas A&M,” he said. “But at some point, A&M crossed the line and turned a good thing into a big lie by saying he was the only guy on the sidelines, and that’s just not the way it was.”

Gill family spokesman Charles Nicholas of San Antonio said family members remain understandably proud of Gill, who was a physician in Corpus Christi after graduating from A&M.

Nicholas said his great-uncle never sought attention from the Dixie Classic, and he had no opinion on the possibility that other players on the sideline could have been available to play in the game.

Other questions

Bynum, for that matter, is not the only researcher to question the validity of A&M’s claim that Gill was the only player who could have entered the Dixie Classic and its claim that the 12th Man phrase had been in continuous use at A&M since 1922.

The researcher, who uses the pseudonym Randolph Duke, has established a website called aggypedia.com, which includes Gill’s assertion in 1964 that he had never heard of a 12th Man tradition prior to 1939.

The Gill family chooses to steer clear of judging the value of Bynum’s claim but agrees with him that Gill is and should remain a significant figure in A&M’s cultural history.

Even if other players were available at the Dixie Classic, Nicholas said, “I don’t think it changes the spirit of what he represented. It was a selling point to bring people together, and the end result has been a tremendous spirit among the Aggies.

“It’s the overall symbolism of it. The 12th Man tradition is the 12th Man tradition, and he is identified with it and always will be. Maybe there were other players on the sidelines, but when you call a guy out of the press box, that’s different.”

Edited May 12, 2020 by Randolph Duke

[Laxtonto 12116]

I dont give a shit about the 12th man tradition, but I damn sure do care that they got a copy right and make money off of it.

The sooner it gets debunked the better it is for everyone else

[Randolph Duke 4034]

25 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

I dont give a shit about the 12th man tradition, but I damn sure do care that they got a copy right and make money off of it.

The sooner it gets debunked the better it is for everyone else

Yea, Bynum agrees with both of us that the trademark they have on the phrase needs to go away, one way or another.

Be patient on this. There will surely be more to come. Adams, the aggy researcher, is well aware hoe 100th anniversary 12th Man book is now torpedoed. His bullshit fairy tale version is going to have a tough time surviving all the factual info out in the media.

Barron, the Chron writer has a lot of additional research to follow up with. Also, Bynum has been in contact with a number of other media outlets. Once the ags go on the record trying to debunk Bynum's info, additional info will be released that slowly tightens the metaphorical noose. If the ags dig in and try to defend their fairy tale, what we will see is a slow motion, metaphorical roasting of whoever they trot out to lie to the sports world.

 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

5 hours ago, Randolph Duke said:

The people of Texas deserve better than Texas A&M:

I don't know, I'm pretty happy with the return on my investment there

[Guest Lobo]

It looks like the new and completely useless international terminal at College Station Int'l Airport.  

Texas A&M Aggies are at war with SoutheasternAsia.  They have always been at war with SoutheasternAsia.  

[Beau Vine 54429]

 

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Beau Vine

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

2 hours ago, Randolph Duke said:

Even if other players were available at the Dixie Classic, Nicholas said, “I don’t think it changes the spirit of what he represented. It was a selling point to bring people together, and the end result has been a tremendous spirit among the Aggies.

“It’s the overall symbolism of it. The 12th Man tradition is the 12th Man tradition, and he is identified with it and always will be. Maybe there were other players on the sidelines, but when you call a guy out of the press box, that’s different.”

"fake but accurate"  !

[Iceman 2725]

nm

Edited May 12, 2020 by Iceman

[Iceman 2725]

35 minutes ago, Lobo said:

It looks like the new and completely useless international terminal at College Station Int'l Airport.  

Texas A&M Aggies are at war with SoutheasternAsia.  They have always been at war with SoutheasternAsia.  

SE Asia is a pseudonym for logic, reason, and accountability?

[Guest Lobo]

No, SEasia is their SEC.  You see, we all have a SoutheasternAsia to battle in this life.  IN the case of the Aggies, it's the SECasia.  

[Chad 1728]

3 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

JFC stanco how do you even fuck up giving aggy shit?! 
 

aggy made the original meme and included Tate in it while he was just a commit. It’s absolutely fair to make fun of them for it.
 

Taylor Hamm breaking the story that Tater was going to enroll a year early when Martell never even said that was the absolute best part. I miss Hamm covering A&M recruiting. 

Didn't Hamm disappear completely after he threatened Sumlin last year and told him he's going to fuck up his world?

[Thiefery 5017]

LOL that aggy hype video.. Jimbo says they are an inch away.. an inch??

[Player 4576]

He's just repeating what Candi always said about getting over the hump - just a few more inches.

[Randolph Duke 4034]

[aggypedia 245]

4 hours ago, Randolph Duke said:

And "Boom!" goes the dynamite!

 

Ooooooooh!  We're in the paper!

I'll keep an eye on the access statistics, and any hate mail we get I will post here of course!

For those of you who haven't viewed it lately, the aggypedia entries are worth reading again and making sure you can share with your aggy and non-aggy friends.

History of the TAMU "12th Man"

[aggypedia 245]

And if you're looking for some Corps Turd fun -

aggypedia - Corps photo gallery

aggypedia - The Corps of Cadets

[Player 4576]

 

 

I may have missed it, but I think there needs to be a specific mention in aggypedia about the boot slide. 

 

[SimkinsMan 4420]

I read the article in the paper and burst out laughing when I saw Randolph Duke cited as a source. Epic.

[Randolph Duke 4034]

51 minutes ago, SimkinsMan said:

I read the article in the paper and burst out laughing when I saw Randolph Duke cited as a source. Epic.

Lol

[Guest Lobo]

They know that most of them have man-boobs while skating down that sidewalk, right?  And they still think that's officer material?  

[Iceman 2725]

4 hours ago, Thiefery said:

LOL that aggy hype video.. Jimbo says they are an inch away.. an inch??

an inch or a couple of  chromosomes...  

[Guest Lobo]

A&M ain't short any chromosomes.  Just like their 12th man, they're all in for  one extra.  

Texas A&M Football:  Home of the 12th Man & 24th Chromosome.  

[TrashMaster G 17599]

4 hours ago, Thiefery said:

LOL that aggy hype video.. Jimbo says they are an inch away.. an inch??

He leaves out the fact that there are two dozen other schools less than a quarter inch away.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

16 hours ago, Thiefery said:

LOL that aggy hype video.. Jimbo says they are an inch away.. an inch??

how many inches are there in a 43-point loss? because they had one of those last year

along with two other double-digit losses

not even going to research but I'll guarantee there's never been a national champion in the poll era that lost three games by double digits the year before including a 40+ point loss

[cochamps 1879]

What some here seem to be missing is that aggy  did not lie.  They never lie, they just dispensed good bull.

In court rooms, with money at stake.  But it was just good bull.

 

[Orange&White 5539]

52 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

how many inches are there in a 43-point loss? because they had one of those last year

along with two other double-digit losses

not even going to research but I'll guarantee there's never been a national champion in the poll era that lost three games by double digits the year before including a 40+ point loss

Sure, but none of them had Jimbo.

[aggypedia 245]

15 hours ago, Player said:

I may have missed it, but I think there needs to be a specific mention in aggypedia about the boot slide. 

 

Good update - added!

[Randolph Duke 4034]

2 minutes ago, aggypedia said:

 

Good update - added!

Obsession noted.

[aggypedia 245]

7 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

Obsession noted.

[DFW Horn 6207]

 

[EE2B 1565]

Obsession noted.

The article that you posted above says that Aggypedia is your site. Based on that info I’m going to assume that the aggypedia account on here is you as well since the site was updated. Are you talking to your damn self?

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

no one who's watched more than fifteen minutes of college basketball in the last decade would even question whether the Big 12 or SEC was the tougher conference. it's never been a debate, a question

[DFW Horn 6207]

6 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

no one who's watched more than fifteen minutes of college basketball in the last decade would even question whether the Big 12 or SEC was the tougher conference. it's never been a debate, a question

True

aggy waters down their football SOS with weak OOC scheduling. Gotta get bowl eligible. Whoop!

[Vertigo 20332]

17 minutes ago, EE2B said:

The article that you posted above says that Aggypedia is your site. Based on that info I’m going to assume that the aggypedia account on here is you as well since the site was updated. Are you talking to your damn self?

[Randolph Duke 4034]

18 minutes ago, EE2B said:

The article that you posted above says that Aggypedia is your site. Based on that info I’m going to assume that the aggypedia account on here is you as well since the site was updated. Are you talking to your damn self?

The article was incorrect in that I do not own, operate, or manage aggypedia. I simply help with some content. 

And I point out that nothing ever published on that site has been proven to me incorrect. It is the most honest and authoritative site on that which is shy to be found anywhere. 

[aggypedia 245]

35 minutes ago, EE2B said:

The article that you posted above says that Aggypedia is your site. Based on that info I’m going to assume that the aggypedia account on here is you as well since the site was updated. Are you talking to your damn self?

No.  I'm not Randy.  See how brief my responses are?  😁

13 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

The article was incorrect in that I do not own, operate, or manage aggypedia. I simply help with some content. 

And I point out that nothing ever published on that site has been proven to me incorrect. It is the most honest and authoritative site on that which is shy to be found anywhere. 

Correct.  I own, operate, pay for, and manage aggypedia on my own with awesome content provided by several authors, including Mr. Duke.

If you're interested in being an author or contributor, please contact me.  I don't get on surly often, but I have been lately because of that article.  I try to update when I see things like those goofy ass boot sliding videos.  What the fuck?

[Ghost of Stevie Ray 1584]

23 hours ago, Randolph Duke said:

And "Boom!" goes the dynamite!

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/college/article/Texas-A-M-Alabama-book-12th-man-legal-fight-15264638.php?utm_campaign=CMS Sharing Tools (Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

History of Texas A&M's 12th Man challenged amid legal battle with school

David Barron , Houston Chronicle May 12, 2020 Updated: May 12, 2020 12:49 p.m.

 

An Alabama book publisher has upped the ante in his three-year legal dispute with Texas A&M by asking a judge to consider evidence he says will strike at the historical foundations of the Aggies’ cherished 12th Man tradition.

Mike Bynum of Birmingham, Ala., says that two 1921 newspaper stories his attorneys filed as part of a proposed motion in U.S. District Court in Houston will show that A&M has misstated the facts surrounding the role of Texas A&M football and basketball player E. King Gill in the Jan. 2, 1922, Dixie Classic football game in Dallas.

The 1922 game is famous in Aggies lore because Gill was summoned from the stands at Fair Park Stadium to join the undermanned A&M bench during a game against Centre College.

Gill did not play, but his willingness to suit up when called upon is a cherished tradition at A&M, which has trademarked the 12th Man phrase with a description that concludes, “When the game ended, Gill was the only man left standing on the sidelines for Texas A&M.”

Bynum, however, has submitted copies of December 1921 stories in The Dallas Morning News and The Houston Post that said A&M brought 25 players to Dallas for the Dixie Classic — not 16 or 18, as cited in previous accounts — and thus had sufficient manpower available even before Gill was summoned from the stands.

“Those (1922 newspaper stories) are the best sources out there, and they should rule the day,” Bynum said.

Based on the accounts of the 25-man roster, Bynum said, the Aggies had at least nine healthy players on the bench before Gill’s arrival.

Accounts of the game agree that the Aggies used 15 players — 11 starters plus four subs for injured players — in the first half. A 16th player was not in uniform because of an injury suffered during pregame practice in Dallas. With the exception of Gill, no mention has been found of other players who did not enter the game.

“Nevertheless, TAMU probably saw great value in embellishing on the historical facts, or failed to confirm them, to improve the story’s impact and to assert rights as the only team that could truly lay claim to a ‘12th Man’ story,” his attorneys said.

Previous suit against A&M

Bynum’s claim casting doubt on the accuracy of the 12th Man origin story is but another twist in his long-running copyright infringement lawsuit concerning a book that he copyrighted in 2010 and planned to publish about Gill and the 12th Man tradition.

The two newspaper stories citing the 25-man roster are included in a proposed second amended petition that Bynum’s attorneys hope will be approved by U.S. District Judge Andrew Hanen.

Originally filed in 2017 against the A&M athletic department, the fund-raising 12th Man Foundation and three A&M employees, the suit’s only remaining defendant is Brad Marquardt, an assistant sports information director who according to the suit had Bynum’s unpublished book about Gill retyped and posted on an A&M website without Bynum’s knowledge or permission in 2014.

Bynum is asking the judge to restore the 12th Man Foundation, the A&M athletic department and two other current and former A&M employees as defendants and to restore a portion of the suit accusing defendants of unconstitutional taking of Bynum’s property.

His attorneys also claim that the case should be allowed to move forward with the additional defendants and charges based on the Supreme Court’s recent decision in a similar case in Georgia.

That decision, they said, determined that state entities that take property without due process of law can still be sued even though they retain sovereign immunity against lawsuits.

History of the 12th Man

For latecomers to the 12th Man story, Gill was a member of the A&M football team in 1921 but was not included on the roster that traveled to Dallas in late December to play Centre College.

Gill met the team in Dallas, his home town, and rode to Fair Park Stadium with A&M coach D.X. Bible. When they arrived, he was asked to serve as a press box spotter for Jinx Tucker of the Waco Tribune-Herald.

However, with the Aggies having used four substitutes during the first half, Bible summoned Gill to the sidelines, where he remained as the Aggies went on to win 22-14.

The story became a popular part of A&M culture via a radio broadcast in 1939, the year the Aggies won their only national championship, and became a tentpole for A&M’s corporate identity and for its athletics fund-raising arm, which according to Bynum has raised more than $1 billion since 2001.

A&M obtained a trademark for the phrase 12th Man in 1990 and has filed assorted legal actions over the years to enforce its mark, including cases against the NFL’s Seattle Seahawks and Indianapolis Colts.

Bynum, however, notes that the phrase was in use prior to 1922 in American football and that its use in English cricket dates back to the 19th century.

Games during Gill's era were not staffed by the array of statisticians that monitor modern games. Bynum, however, said that A&M is guilty of more than an oversight in claiming that Gill was the only man available to play in the Dixie Classic.

“It’s one thing to tell a friendly lie,” he said. “It’s another to raise money telling this lie, and that has what Texas A&M and the 12th Man Foundation have been doing for years.”

In defense of 12th Man history

Texas A&M’s media representatives referred inquiries about the history of the 12th Man story to John Adams, a Texas A&M former student who has written several books about the university and plans to publish a book on the Dixie Classic next January to mark its 100th anniversary.

Adams, who said he years ago interviewed Gill, who died in 1976, and Joe Utay, the former Texas A&M player who organized the Dixie Classic, stands firmly with the traditional A&M tale that A&M brought 16 players to Dallas, not including Gill, and that Gill was the only healthy player available to play had the Aggies suffered another injury.

Regarding the published stories in the Dallas and Houston papers citing 25 players who made the trip to Dallas, Adams said, “I have no idea where they got those numbers. I think they made them up.”

He also takes issue with the 1974 book “The Twelfth Man: A Story of Texas A&M Football” by longtime Cotton Bowl executive Wilbur Evans and former A&M sports information director H.B. McElroy, published in 1974, that says the Aggies brought 18 players to Dallas.

If correct, the 18-man roster, which also was cited in a 1956 Houston Press story about Gill, would mean that two players in addition to Gill were available to play in the Dixie Classic after the first-half injuries.

Adams believes confusion over the Aggies’ roster size may stem from a roster of 24 names included in the game program, which he said was printed in December 1921.

Regarding A&M's statement in its trademark filing that Gill was the only man available to play, Adams said some of the injured players may have remained in uniform on the sidelines and perhaps could have re-entered to prevent the Aggies from forfeiting the game.

“But if you believe that, you’re really getting into the weeds,” he said. “I have accounted for 16 players, and I have looked for the 17th and 18th players (cited in the Evans-McElroy book) and haven’t found them.”

Bynum, meanwhile, chooses to lean on the 1974 book and the 1921 newspaper accounts to assert the case that Gill, at best, was the Aggies’ 16th man.

“Texas A&M has continued to tell this lie to raise their importance on the American sports stage and for financial fund-raising and promoting the value of a trademark, which they lied to obtain,” he said.

“The $1 billion that A&M has raised through the 12th Man Foundation has been based on a lie.”

A writer’s history

Bynum is best known in Texas sports circles as editor of the book “King Football,” a history of Texas high school football that included two significant corrections to the historical record.

One included the revelation that Gordon Wood, the longtime high school coach who was believed to be the first Texas coach to compile 400 career victories, actually had compiled just 394.

The second was that the first known game involving a Texas high school team occurred not in 1894, when a team from Galveston Ball played Texas A&M, but in 1892, when Ball played a team coached by John Sealy known as the Galveston Rugbys.

Bynum said he had been working on a book about the 12th Man origin story for more than a decade when he gave his research to Whit Canning, a longtime writer for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, to compose the story.

He said in his lawsuit that he submitted the story, which designated him as the owner of the copyright, to Marquardt in 2010 while seeking assistance for photos from the Dixie Classic.

Marquardt, in an email to Bynum, said he was asked in January 2014 to provide a story that detailed A&M’s 12th Man history to counter the publicity being generated by the Seattle Seahawks, who had licensed the number “12” from A&M as part of its game-day presentation.

Marquardt said he found Bynum’s manuscript in his files, had it retyped and published without informing Bynum of his plans.

Original ruling on suit

Judge Hanen in April 2019 said the A&M athletic department could not be sued because it does not have a legal existence separate from the university, which says it has sovereign immunity against lawsuits. He also said Bynum had not exhausted his potential remedies against the university in state court.

The 12th Man Foundation was dropped because Hanen said the group had no supervisory authority over Marquardt. Hanen also dropped as defendants Alan Cannon, the school’s sports information director, and Lane Stephenson, former director of the A&M news and information service.

Bynum’s motion filed this week seeks to have all four restored as defendants and to restore the charge that defendants violated federal law by taking property without compensation.

While he continues his lawsuit against what he says was A&M’s unlawful taking of his property, Bynum said he had no desire to diminish Gill’s role in A&M history.

“King Gill always tried to downplay all of this but considered it an honor and thought it was good for Texas A&M,” he said. “But at some point, A&M crossed the line and turned a good thing into a big lie by saying he was the only guy on the sidelines, and that’s just not the way it was.”

Gill family spokesman Charles Nicholas of San Antonio said family members remain understandably proud of Gill, who was a physician in Corpus Christi after graduating from A&M.

Nicholas said his great-uncle never sought attention from the Dixie Classic, and he had no opinion on the possibility that other players on the sideline could have been available to play in the game.

Other questions

Bynum, for that matter, is not the only researcher to question the validity of A&M’s claim that Gill was the only player who could have entered the Dixie Classic and its claim that the 12th Man phrase had been in continuous use at A&M since 1922.

The researcher, who uses the pseudonym Randolph Duke, has established a website called aggypedia.com, which includes Gill’s assertion in 1964 that he had never heard of a 12th Man tradition prior to 1939.

The Gill family chooses to steer clear of judging the value of Bynum’s claim but agrees with him that Gill is and should remain a significant figure in A&M’s cultural history.

Even if other players were available at the Dixie Classic, Nicholas said, “I don’t think it changes the spirit of what he represented. It was a selling point to bring people together, and the end result has been a tremendous spirit among the Aggies.

“It’s the overall symbolism of it. The 12th Man tradition is the 12th Man tradition, and he is identified with it and always will be. Maybe there were other players on the sidelines, but when you call a guy out of the press box, that’s different.”

[TexasMan 10987]

Just listen to the first 30 minutes of this episode of texaggy radio where Gabe and Olin discuss their top 10 reasons why they definitely DO NOT want to play those damn dirty sips in Austin anymore. 

 

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/TexAgsRadio/~5/KHoCghyAhj4/0130878-uohj.mp3

[Dennis Taylor 18871]

44 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

no one who's watched more than fifteen minutes of college basketball in the last decade would even question whether the Big 12 or SEC was the tougher conference. it's never been a debate, a question

it's almost like you don't even aggy, bro