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MrPhlegm

By MrPhlegm
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Randolph Duke

Randolph Duke 4034

Posted
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26 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

There are quite a few who have gone to UT Law over the years.

Hence, the difference between "Aggies" and "aggys." There are graduates of Texas A&M who somehow survive four years in College Station relatively unscathed (and usually swearing never to return). They are "Aggies." They are rarely found in the company of one or more other "former attendees" of the agricultural branch college of The University of Texas.

"aggys" on the other hand, are those (usually of sloped forehead) inflicted with the disease we call "aggy."

 

ring aggy tuj.jpeg

Edited by Randolph Duke
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nnm

nnm 36455

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35 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

There are quite a few who have gone to UT Law over the years.

A very good attorney that used to work for me went to UT undergrad and Texas Weslyan University for law school.  Subsequently, that school became aggy.  She was very particular about pointing out that she did NOT go to aggy law school.  

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Scholz

Scholz 11944

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56 minutes ago, nnm said:

A very good attorney that used to work for me went to UT undergrad and Texas Weslyan University for law school.  Subsequently, that school became aggy.  She was very particular about pointing out that she did NOT go to aggy law school.  

Same deal with my buddy who attended Baylor Dental School in Dallas, annexed by the aggy borg the year he graduated.  He took particular care to shape the diploma frame matting to cover certain words.

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Randolph Duke

Randolph Duke 4034

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50 minutes ago, Viper said:

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/27/novavax-coronavirus-vaccine-texas/

tenor.gif

The aggys have toned it down from their "game changer" bleat of a few years ago promising 100 million doses of a vaccine within four months of being given a sample of the virus.

They haven't delivered a damned thing yet and all they are being asked to do is what they were already paid to be able to deliver. For once, aggys, just do what you are told and don't fuck this up.

But aggy will morph it into "We cured Covid all by ourselves. Thank me for my service!" fairy tale shit for the next 50 years.

aggy gotta aggy

 

aggy_ralph copy.jpg

Edited by Randolph Duke
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SHOOTER12

SHOOTER12 8811

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1 hour ago, Orange&White said:

My dad is still furious to this day that they call him and ask him to donate money and BUY a new diploma. He graduated from Texas A&I, damnit!! And he won't ever be associated with any aggies.

Thank God my father didn't live to see the day A&I became aggy.  If he had EVER had aggy call him to donate or ask him to buy a new diploma~~~shudder~~~ I'm afraid I would have a much different memory of the old man, I seriously don't know what level of rage that would have evoked from him.

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Cairn Horn88

Cairn Horn88 8275

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5 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

MotherofGod.jpeg

That’s like the Seinfeld episode when he and Elaine went to pick up a reserved car....only to find they didn’t have his vehicle. He says..”Anybody can take the reservation”, but you have to “keep” the reservation and have the vehicle that I reserved.   It’s not a reservation, otherwise.

Likewise, they can tap aggy to produce the vaccine with a contract, but that does not mean they will get what they are paying for....let’s see...we have expenses, fees, overhead, sewage issues...training.......

Hopefully, they can do it....but...well, aggy.

 

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Deej

Deej 76832

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4 hours ago, bluto said:

Just saw their dipshit big donor Buzbee isn’t renewing his suites and talkin a big game of withholding donations after the sully meltdown. So great

Surprised he hasn’t been out their guarding the statue with his tank.

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Randolph Duke

Randolph Duke 4034

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8 hours ago, bluto said:

Just saw their dipshit big donor Buzbee isn’t renewing his suites and talkin a big game of withholding donations after the sully meltdown. So great

I'm sure a lot of aggys who find themselves in tough economic conditions are going to claim they are taking the moral high ground, but actually not keeping football tickets because they need to cut back. Not saying that's Buzbee's situation, but capital is flowing out of the oil sector, the economic effects of the virus, etc.

Also, the Sul Ross entry on aggypedia has been looked at by the proofreader, so it shouldn't have any typos.

 

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Randolph Duke

Randolph Duke 4034

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https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3127360

One of the "Clinical Associate Professors" at A&M just dumped his version of the "Sully's character" debate. Interesting that he used texags to essentially publish what he wrote. Not sure what's going on with that.

And people say I need to learn how to write shorter pieces.

Quote

f you're reading this, we are here about a statue that has been the bronze heart of our campus and the center of traditions going back a hundred years. We are taught the legacy of a memorial, but only the veneer of the man. I ask that you bear with me as we go beyond the mere attachments we have formed and listen openly to the history of the man. It is painful, but most things worth doing are.
There are good things and bad things to say about Sully, and a prevalent argument is that the same could be said of any person. While this may be true, not many of us held a position quite like that of Lawrence Sullivan Ross. Both as an icon of tradition, and an icon of sullied past.
As a refresher, let's go over some things that we've all talked about in the last few days, weeks, or even years depending on when you entered this debate. This is not a unique debate to your generation or even mine, but it is my hope that it ends with us today.
I have heard accusations that we have forgotten the good of Sully and of the fine deeds he performed. That he founded one A&M and saved another, that he created the cadets, that he forged traditions, and that he made not only our campus but also our state stronger for his being there. That he was beloved by all for his honor and character. That he was, as his pedestal so proudly states, a soldier, a statesman, and a knightly gentleman. This is his gospel and his myth. One, I myself am no stranger to. But today, I want to talk about the man. To pull back the curtain of time and view him in his entirety, and understand how both he and his statue came to be.
I apologize in advance for some of the dated language I will be using today and the pain these words might invoke.
We know from letters and texts much more eloquently put together than this, that Sul Ross' father, Shapley Ross, was thought of as a good man. He worked with the native people around him and often pushed for their protection. He was a man of his time, strict with his own men, fair to the point of his own destruction. Shapley was lauded by many, and he cast a long shadow in which young Sullivan was raised.
He was also a slave-owner after he married.
The 1830 Lincoln County, MO, Census says Sully's mother owned 18 slaves. Eighteen lives. Eighteen souls held as property. And when his property escaped, Shapley was not content to let it go. In his own words:
"$100 Reward Ranaway from the subscriber, living in Bentonsport, on the 5th day of Jan. 1839, a Negro boy named Armstead, 19 years of age, about 5 feet 10 inches high, very black, flat made, weight about 150 lbs., red eyes, especially when he takes a dram, though not given to drunkenness, slow of speech and hoarse voice; quite intelligent for a boy of his age. Had on, when he left, a new fur hat, a steel mixt frock coat, torn on the back from the waist to the collar; a pair of new boots, and jeans pants. Took with him a drab over coat, two linsey, one check, and one domestic shirt, and one striped linsey bed cover. Any person catching and securing said boy until I can get him, and will write to Bentonsport, Van Buren county, I. T. will be entitled to the above reward. Shapley P. Ross."
In A.W. Harlan's "Slavery in Iowa Territory", he writes "Giles A. Sullivan assisted Ross in the capture of the Negro in Illinois. They were on their way to Missouri, when at Carthage, Illinois, they were arrested for kidnapping and had some difficulty in giving security in order to keep out of jail. I will not pretend to state particulars or facts as to the many quarrels and lawsuits that grew out of this attempt to hold slaves in Iowa. It was to Ross a losing business. As he was just ready to leave, a little lawyer by the name of Buckland from Massachusetts, had Ross arrested on some cause. Ross watched his opportunity and struck Buckland in the face, smashing his gold-bowed spectacles most effectually. He then ran away to Texas. At the first term of court at Keosauqua, Judge Charles Mason presiding, there was a great mass of papers relative to these cases disposed of in various ways, and Sullivan and Ross, and 'Ross's ******,' became bywords for several years."
I show you these things to contrast the eulogy they wrote about 'Ross's ******' in the Waco Daily Examiner:
"Old Armistead Ross, one of the most hardworking, steady and wealthy colored men in Waco, was consigned to the earth yesterday. Armistead's history is closely connected with that of Waco's he having come here over a third of a century ago, when Capt. S. P. Ross came. He assisted in building some of the first houses put up in Waco. His interests and labors were ever associated with those in the Central City. During over thirty years he had lived here and accumulated quite an amount of property, his estimated worth at the time of his death being in the neighborhood of $10,000. His funeral took place at 3 o'clock yesterday, and was attended by a large concourse of people, both white and black. The pall bearers who bore his coffin to the hearse were Gen. L. S. Ross, Sheriff W. T. Harris, County Clerk John W. Baker, Tom Padgitt, and John V. Smith. His remains were interred in the old cemetery"
No mention of his time as property, or of his first taste of freedom being stripped away by the father of the man who would later carry him to his grave.
After all, he had toiled for years in the Ross's service without pay, was drug back when he attempted his own emancipation, and then finally, after having freedom thrust upon him at the point of a Union bayonet, enriched the Ross's one last time in buying the land he himself had tilled for so long. Do not let antebellum nostalgia blind you to what is happening in this scene. This was Sully's father, and the son was shaped in his image.
In his time as military commander, we know Sully did all in his power to prove himself in battle. He was well liked by his peers, and much was expected of him. Above all, he desired to be a hero. It was this ambition and drive that brings us to Pease River, the battle with which he would begin his myth.
In the 1870s, Ross claimed to have taken 350 horses from the Comanche in a great excursion at Pease River. He was seeking office at the time, and his heroism was a cornerstone of his candidacy. Unfortunately, this display of valor may have been both more and less than it seemed.
Dr. Paul Carlson and Tom Crum did extensive research on the subject, and they determined that Ross greatly exaggerated both his victory and his prize the official records having his spoils at 45 horses at the most, that the village itself was at Mule Creek, and that the camp was mostly unarmed women and children.
A quote from their piece called Myth, Memory and Massacre: The Pease River Capture of Cynthia Anne Parker::
Texas Ranger Hiram B. Rogers who, like Sul Ross, fought at Mule Creek in 1860. "I was in the Pease river fight," he recalled in 1928, "but I am not very proud of it. That was not a battle at
all, but just a killing of [women]."
For those of you who say that the man was merely a product of his time, I would ask you to consider how you could look at the slaughter of women and children and, without any hint of remorse, turn that into a campaign centerpiece. Even his fellow Ranger, Rogers, found it to be disingenuous at best.
But one prize from his victory stands out above the rest. One great trophy from the slaughter - a young Comanche boy, about 9 years old. Sully first tried to give him as a gift to Sam Houston, but Houston declined his offer. Sully kept the boy. After which, he was known for his adoption of the Comanche boy and for raising him as his son. It would be the least a man could do after ordering the slaughter of his people. Yet, we now know he was treated more as an attendant or pet.
"Camp Bartow Sept. 4th, 1861 My Dear Lizzie: Pease creates more excitement than a monkey show. The Ladies have made him a fine suit of uniform L. S. Ross"
"Pease Ross, the Indian, was drinking yesterday, and got mixed up with the crippled Mexican who sets up in front of the Imperial, which so exasperated the organ-grinder that he gave chase to Ross. The latter, in attempting to evade the irate Mexican, ran plump into the arms of Officers Bell and Miller. As a matter purely of protection to Pease, he was placed in the cooler. Waco Daily Examiner, 10 December 1881"
Now, the Civil War.
In the book "Freedom By The Sword: The U.S. Colored Troops", we read on a skirmish over Yazoo City, he wrote: "I immediately ordered [the 6th and 9th Texas Cavalry], which happened to be nearest at hand, to charge them," Ross reported. "The negroes, after the first fire, broke in wild disorder, each seeming intent on nothing but making his escape. Being mounted on mules, however, but few of them got away. The road all the way to Yazoo City was literally strewed with their bodies."
Literally strewed with their bodies. A knightly scene indeed.
Why did this happen?
A quote from Herbert, Aptheker's "Negro Casualties in the Civil War" explains:
"Brigadier General L. S. Ross cut off and surrounded the Federal garrison at Yazoo City, Mississippi in March, 1864, and, on the fifth, demanded its surrender. "We squabbled about the terms of the capitulation," reported the General, "as I would not recognize Negroes as soldiers, or guarantee them nor their officers protection as such." As a result, he went on, the Negroes "returned and pressed our forces so hard that we were compelled to withdraw and they refused to surrender."
He could not recognize the Negroes as soldiers, because doing so would be an admission that they were people. He would have to face and question the mission of the Confederacy.
Like many of the men of his time, he wanted to prove to his wife and his men that he would not shy away from war. He would uphold his honor and fulfill his duty, even when his enthusiasm for the war began to dim.
Ross writes in a letter home: "I must confess that I desire to return, yet I feel that my duty to my Country demands the course I am pursuing, and hence it becomes more tolerable."
Later again:
"I would resign and return home but I feel that my duty to you and my Country demands of me, all the service and sacrifice I can render or make Very many of the old officers are retiring from the service and returning home. I do not feel that I could do so honorably while my Country bleeds at every pore."
"My country" he says. The Confederacy.
With every life he took and every future cut short, he was changed, but not toward compassion. By his own words he could have stopped at any point and returned home, but his pride and learned behavior prevented him.
Following the Civil War, Ross was barred from voting due to his service to the Confederacy, but it did him no true harm. After all, even without a vote, he still had his acreage and generational wealth, built on the backs of slaves.
Bill Page put together a compilation of sources, some I have mentioned. Within he lists many of the convictions now Sheriff Sully made against African Americans. There is also evidence that suggests Sully specifically arrested & fined those who were accused of running across his brother-in-law's crops.
To balance that, he did build a new jail. "The Waco Examiner states that "the prisoners were removed yesterday from the old to the new jail, forty-two in number, under the charge of the sheriff, Gen. Ross, Mr. Claybaugh, the jailor. The birds sung glibly in their new cage."
Perhaps he was biased in whom the law and justice would apply to, but at least he ensured that any of his new guests would not want for new quarters. Of note, is that this was not to be the end of Ross's relationship with prisons. Some years later, faced with a threat to the profitability of the penal system, Governor Ross dramatically would reduce the number of pardons provided to appellants (a practice that previously would free 6-12% of prisoners) helping ensure that the prisons would not lose funds for lack of occupants.
A quote from the Austin American Statesman "There are docketed in the executive office 11,076 applications for relief, and of these fully 1,500 may be said to be now pending. Since Governor Ross was inaugurated, there have been 350 applications for pardon, of which seventy-two were granted. 24 parties have been restored to citizenship, and 56 remissions and commutations have been made. Seven of the pardon cases were left over from the last administration."
Out of all of those numbers, 32 are documented as African Americans. Remember, these pardons were limited for profit, not justice.
In 1875 as a delegate of Texas, Sully helped draft language supporting separate schools "Sec. 7 Separate schools shall be provided for the white and colored children, and impartial provision shall be made for both."
While some point to this as proof that Sully founded Texas A&M, it is Matthew Gaines' efforts in securing, as a recently freed man and black Senator, the Morill Act in 1862 that gave us both A&M and Prairie View A&M. The Morill Act provided the funds and lands needed for the creation of a Texas public college. Ironically, Gaines was arrested for making a civil rights speech the same year Sully and his crew pushed forward the draft.
However, I will give credit where credit is due. It is worth noting that Sully also cast his vote for blacks to have the same voting rights as whites, a point in his favor, even if it appears this vote was cast as a bargaining chip for other issues.
Now we come to Ross as governor.
His first term is noted for the restoration of the Land Office commissioner. His second term is defined by the Jaybird-Woodpecker War of 1889 in Fort Bend County.
For those unfamiliar with this event, some 400 white supremacist Democrats, known as the Jaybirds, began a feud against the mix of black and white Republicans who were known as the Woodpeckers. More than a mere squabble between parties, this war would result in assassinations, exchanges of gunfire, and even an instance of dynamite being placed under the bed of an African American couple in a bid to take control of office.
Sully attempted to gain some control over the situation using martial law, Texas Rangers, and the Houston Light Guards. While he was able to create a peace of sorts, he then allowed the Jaybirds, the white supremacists, to gain control of office, ensuring the disenfranchisement of African Americans and creating a "whites only" center of power that would not be pierced until Barbara Jordan's election in 1965.
For those of you who would bring it up, I have not forgotten the orphanage for deaf & blind children of color, but let it be noted that it was the work of Rev. A. Grant, J. J. Hamilton, Rev. Saml. Gates, Rev. C. H. Anderson and Prof. Blackshear that laid the foundations for its creation and direction, and the legislation put forward by William Holland, who sponsored the bill providing for PVAMU. Though Sully's fingerprints were indeed on the orphanage, they existed only on the pen with which he signed his acceptance.
Thus, we finally come to Sully's tenure at Texas A&M and involvement with Prairie View A&M.
To clear up a misconception, Prairie View A&M and TAMU were not founded by General Ross. The school was founded by Matthew Gaines and presided over initially by Thomas S. Gathright and L.W. Minor. TAMU itself was presided over by 6 other leaders before Ross.
It is true that Sully helped restructure funds to save PVAMU, the bulk of contributions of work towards that effort came from the principal, faculty, staff, and students of Prairie View and from one Mr. W.R.Cavitt. He also saved $10,000 of the initial $15,000 for TAMU, leaving PVAMU $5000. Hogg would come behind and actually redistribute this again, giving TAMU of the money.
Sully's initial efforts to preserve Prairie View A&M were to ensure that university segregation would not be disturbed. After seeing the aftermath of the Woodpecker/Jaybird War, he could not afford to risk an uprising nor allow blacks to be on his campus when so many Confederate families depended upon him to keep the campus in line and white. It was far easier to allow them their own space and oversight, and in turn he also placed himself in an altruistic light while being mostly opportunistic in his approach.
Back to this campus, it is true that Sully contributed to this school in numerous ways. He fixed failing infrastructure, worked with the students on campus, and did much for the betterment and engagement of his white male students.
Again, giving credit where credit is due, now President Ross did allow some of the professors' daughters to become "campus girls" to bring a feminine touch to the wild boys. They were allowed to attend classes at A&M, so long as they understood they would never receive credit for it. While he may have considered the idea of coed membership, he did nothing to actually push it or even take up the ready cause to create an annex suggested by a coalition of women who were fighting for it. It would be decades later under another military man, Major General Earl Rudder, to finally give more than lip service to the admission of women and people of color to our school.
It is true certain traditions formed under his term, but they were not started by him.
Aggie Ring began the year before his term, but the style we're familiar with was designed by E.C. Jonas 1894.
Aggie Band was started by Joseph Holick. Ross initially invited him to campus to cobble shoes, but his music talent drew other talent in, and eventually they formed a band.
Ross Volunteers were initially the Scott Volunteers honor guard. They changed their name after Ross' death.
Other student orgs also sprang up, but this is unsurprising as Ross had a general reputation for being a bit of a socialite, as long as that company was white.
We know now that the penny tradition comes from a table and wasn't heard of until around '77, if memory serves. There is no written record of the penny for your thoughts quote or any reliable source of its origination.
Caufield excerpt: "Ross wrote a brief but impassioned statement detailing "what Texas, under Democratic rule, has done in the past and is doing now for the education and benefit of the colored race" (1889, p. 1): The Democrats of Texas have agreed that the negro shall enjoy equal rights before the lawThey were for years led as so many chained slaves by their white political leaders; now they rule supremely these old chieftains. They have made rapid progress in education and personal independence. They have in Texas thousands of accomplished teachers and preachers and many political orators able to cope with the gifted speakers of the white race. Democrats have 4 contributed largely to this triumph. It is a singular notion that the Democrats could be hostile to the negro. It would be idiotic to yearly hand out $665,000 for the negro's advancement if the Democrats desired to suppress them. Education will strengthen them for any contest. If kept in blind ignorance they might be governed to extinction by the white race, stronger in numbers, wealth, and intelligence. (Ross, 1889, p. 3) Therein lies the contradiction. While Ross "was only a nominal supporter of the peculiar institution" (Benner, 1983, p. 20), owning no slaves at the outset of the Civil War, he maintained a strong sense of racial superiority. "
As an aside, while Ross never had the titles over his familial slaves, he still benefited from their labor and degradation, dragging Armstead ( "Ross' ******" as records state) into battle:
Sul determined to go along, so carrying his rifle and accompanied by Armstead, he unobtrusively joined the pursuit. The problem was that the only mount he and Armstead, could find was a recalcitrant mule. On this animal young master and slave brought up the rear of the party. All went well until the posse caught up with the horse thieves. A running gun battle broke out between the settlers and the Indians just the kind of excitement for an adventurous kid who longed to be an Indian fighter. (From Benner, Judith Ann, Sul Ross, Soldier, Statesman, Educator, College Station: Texas A&M University Press, 1983, page 12) - excerpt from Bill Page's compilation.
Ross also was involved with both the Waco Masonic Lodge and the United Confederate Veterans. His involvement with them would lead to the L. S. Ross Chapter of the United Daughters of the Confederacy. It would be a waste of time to link Ross' involvement with the UDV and UDC to his personal involvement with the KKK, however, both organizations set the stage for the white supremacist idealogy to take hold and allowed it to rise again.
After Ross' death, there was a period of mourning, and the L. S. Ross Chapter of the UDC attempted to raise a monument of him on campus in 1898 following his demise, but were unsuccessful as there were others, like Narnie Harrison who suggested building a fund in his name instead, who thought a more fitting memorial would be something living and not an empty token. Parks were suggested and an annex for women in 1901 was suggested.
1904, C. A. Westbrook is put in charge of the UDC association that has been earnestly attempting dances and dinners to earn money for their on campus monument throughout this time. She gets the closest to achieving their goal, but it dies along with Ms. Orland after a fall from her horse. The UDC effort is never quite the same as it once was, but it holds onto those L. S. Ross funds as tightly as it can. 1907 another attempt to raise funds falls flat.
Now, finally, we come to the building of the statue we are debating today.
Before I begin, allow me to provide some background of the climate of the time.
A&M has a picture on their diversity timeline of two African American men working and a trainer called "Blackie" workers, not students dated 1909.
In 1910, A&M Minstrels was created, introducing blackface to campus and all that it entailed.
In 1915, African Americans were finally hired as district and county extension agents but were still not allowed as students.
In 1917, legislature teams associated with UDC attempts to pass a bill for the appropriations of funds for the monument they have at this point spent years scraping together. They are rejected as Woodbul sits on the panel, and he is unyielding. UDC only has to wait one more year for their chance.
1918 comes with two events of note:
First, research began on some of the inconsistencies in Ross' prior statements. A seeking of verifications of some of the exaggerations we discussed earlier.
Second, the beginning murmurs of the resurgence of the Ku Klux Klan begins. White supremacists rear their ugly heads once more and begin to seize power in the region.
Dr. Kelly McMichael writes in "Sacred Memories", that Senate Bill 361 is proposed by the 35th legislature, of whom some will become KKK members, in order to create this statue. Contributions come from both the United Daughters of the Confederacy and the United Confederate Veterans.
Records show that Lt. Gen. Hobby's wife sits on the legislative board within UDC. They had made other allies prior, as seen in their 1917 attempt. Woodbul and his loyalists were no longer in their way. At last, the Confederate daughters could raise their testament to the grandiosity of Confederate ideals and the white superiority it stood for.
Like many of the statues of Confederates raised at this time, this statue was one of oppression veiled by a varnish of history. Those who erected this statue, and those like it, understood exactly the environment they were seeking to enshrine that of the Confederate, white South. But it did not start with them. It was built off the atmosphere of racist leaning culture and legislature that Ross had allowed to grow and thrive.
And that's the thing about institutional racism. It is beyond intent. Whether or not Ross himself was a diehard racist has little to do with the fact that he created the openings for racism to embed itself into our culture, and for the Klan and historical revisionists to cling to, so they had little to fear in overtaking the campus for years after the statue's unveiling. Whether he intended to uplift them or not becomes irrelevant, and they see him as their hero and friend because it was he that allowed them to rise up and take hold once more.
Thus, this statue was erected. This statue that we have divided our student body and city over, turned Aggie against Aggie and neighbor against neighbor.
Even now, there still persists an undertone of racist discourse that creates strife for our students of color, but it doesn't have to.
It is time to take a stand against the sins of our past. Time to let go of the cruelty and muffled racism of the Old Army, and march together forward with the New. As a campus we have grown beyond Sully. We are now able to look at him as he was, rather than how his supporters would have him remembered.
The Cadets refer to him as Soldier, Statesman, Knightly gentleman, but to and for who?
He was not some sainted martyr, filled to the brim with compassion and virtue. He was a man, and a flawed man at that. He was passionate when it came to the white people in his circle, and patronizingly compassionate for the "negroes" around him. In understanding this statue, we must look beyond its existence as a tradition, and examine what it is we say by its presence.
The statue must stay because the statue has stayed is no argument.
We have no shortage of history. We are steeped in it from the day we are enrolled. We have no shortage of heroes. Their medals and stories adorn the wall of the MSC. All we need do is ask if we are willing to live up to our legacy and push forward to a better tomorrow, or if we love our past too much to move beyond it.
Ask whether we wish to extol the deeds of the man, both good and bad, and what that says about us. Is his virtue worth preserving in statue more than his vice demands its absence? Do we value his deeds for the school more than his inhumanity towards his fellow man? Will we choose to keep him as a model for all who pass his gaze, knowing now who he really was and who put him on his pedestal?
Ask yourselves these questions, and then think once more about whether or not Lawrence Sullivan Ross is a man to whom we should aspire and who should remain immortalized in sculpture. Consider whether the good he did warrants his memorial more than the pain he left behind on the necks of our students of color. Think on whether or not this statue would even exist had Confederate daughters not needed to soften and glorify a bloodsoaked past.
If you can look in your heart and say that his preservation of the school as it was when the statue was erected is of greater value than the blood he spilled and the lives his actions continue to harm, then keep the statue. But, never forget, a memorial says as much about the reverent as it does the revered.
Thank you.
Some resources in your journey to understanding:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.co.waller.tx.us/upload/common/docs/Veterans/memorial_book.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiq8Oy2ndzqAhVFPawKHRFGAoEQFjAPegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw3RCtcVmP8KTdwT6PH_7mu8
https://lrl.texas.gov/LASDOCS/35R/SB361/SB361_35R.pdf#page=5
https://photos.app.goo.gl/quMWYDutvHt2XvJN9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pboh1G5pMxxEqtfy5
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zvU3oJEFL6QrxBSX8
https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3A11449434-b6c7-4025-a3b4-f4363988d91f&fbclid=IwAR0DZCkunc0QAXcwaVlPMgDATGC3rI1f7HAGCOGZ6_bGJBMlqKzD3pVdX34
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lr_fTDtN8IE&feature=youtu.be


https://books.google.com/books?id=TBFCAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA269&lpg=PA269&dq=%22Sul+Ross+Memorial+Association%22&source=bl&ots=4z9OKBB_Ek&sig=ACfU3U37mdDV_phykzXqocsugKv3hNMfPw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi586yEmZPqAhVGQ6wKHcFtCYUQ6AEwAXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22Sul%20Ross%20Memorial%20Association%22&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=lb7jDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA170&lpg=PA170&dq=did+children+die+at+pease+river&source=bl&ots=Dk51WVSl6a&sig=ACfU3U2FBUP0VwuCQ0cxojEFs1sKVTgE5g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiVs8yclvPpAhVS7qwKHSMtAnAQ6AEwEHoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=did%20children%20die%20at%20pease%20river&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=cSBUafCHq-UC&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=%22killing+of+squaws%22&source=bl&ots=y1vMvxmvXJ&sig=ACfU3U0SsZnlA46bIdX5E9USctmiePkahg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZtIDRsP3pAhUFtjEKHVmeB20Q6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22killing%20of%20squaws%22&f=false
https://www.historynet.com/one-little-indian-boy.htm
https://www.austincc.edu/pgoines/robertevans?fbclid=IwAR3oxazqP7rSpoiDVRr8yRyKvoOGQp8-gnvIUwq2SOr3eOgW1nnP_EKO1NU
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theeagle.com/news/local/historian-explores-rudder-s-world-war-ii-legacy-at-bryan-event/article_1de8f6be-874f-11e9-8f10-e7e73e251c3f.amp.html
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EywvykzPQvaTE0fT_4bm4kmbc0c7jXjZ/view?fbclid=IwAR3Su4LgfaPOuApJ5vZapMSKYrabCGGttRaur2d45kzln3R23KlLLWuDVmI
https://www.myaggienation.com/aggie_profiles/gen-james-earl-rudder-led-texas-a-m-through-immense-change-and-growth/article_c8ad387e-0f43-11e3-824c-0019bb2963f4.html
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EKd6TZy1w_tSd7sderXTcNz1x_1f__Vc/view?fbclid=IwAR12efzLWJETrpRxZu8wzZl2npdNb1NJhWkfQueixuCq6zVqpXq0eBHnQKY
https://tamucc-ir.tdl.org/bitstream/handle/1969.6/639/banks%2C%20theodore%20thesis.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
https://books.google.com/books?id=Lh8jDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA87&lpg=PA87&dq=tom+crum+sul+ross&source=bl&ots=etGzpbDZap&sig=ACfU3U12pApSL1dnCr4Ni-8yJNN4qlVuNg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi_7fuFz_zpAhXitTEKHYSqChEQ6AEwBHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=tom%20crum%20sul%20ross&f=false
https://history.army.mil/html/books/030/30-24/CMH_Pub_30-24.pdf
https://www.tsl.texas.gov/exhibits/prisons/inquiry/pardons.html
https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/wfj01?fbclid=IwAR0xl073FGaKBfzycXkmbilECpUsubUQE_Vu_RgysZ5OeyGok_ftfp6MI7E
https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/fro81
https://history.house.gov/People/Listing/J/JORDAN,-Barbara-Charline-(J000266)/?fbclid=IwAR0TuDX8YxnOBR93vyfy4ye7f2n8o_mvtEQKK0sxjZDYYD3weo65A53eGn8
https://abc13.com/texas-am-university-white-male-military/5333165/#:~:text=This%20landmark%20decision%20was%20pushed,attend%20classes%20and%20receive%20degrees.
https://www.pvamu.edu/cahs/cep/
http://www.thebatt.com/news/facing-a-m-s-past/article_b95f6fb2-3b2b-11e9-ba89-0b1d134044d0.html
https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/wfj01?fbclid=IwAR1dw3ssdYK8ybkDvgjX8sYqJa8z-Q4AqmI5V8xEqhmI-xS6gUyEIiphaVo
https://www.theeagle.com/news/local/historian-explores-rudder-s-world-war-ii-legacy-at-bryan-event/article_1de8f6be-874f-11e9-8f10-e7e73e251c3f.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20070610004657/http://www.rtis.com/reg/bcs/pol/tamucr/pg5arep1.htm
https://studentaffairs.tamu.edu/students/matthew-gaines-statue/
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Land-Grant-College-Act-of-1862
https://www.tamupress.com/book/9780876112380/sacred-memories/
http://lazymf-lazymf.blogspot.com/2011/05/texas-the-good-bad-and-ugly.html
https://oaktrust.library.tamu.edu/bitstream/handle/1969.1/173554/WALTERS-DISSERTATION-2018.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/the_groups_2013.pdf
https://www.law.upenn.edu/cf/faculty/krooseve/workingpapers/91TexLRev121(2012).pdf
http://www.insitebrazosvalley.com/lifestyle/arts-culture/if-walls-could-talk-tales-of-innovation-and-renovation-from-the-cavitt-house/
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oGcsPrriV9tXWs0OOo1QjaZoHhrfOxLh/view?usp=sharing
https://www.goodbullhunting.com/2020/6/10/21282874/lawrence-sullivan-sul-ross-pennies-on-sully-statue-controversy?fbclid=IwAR0a3bXkc8njEzSACbMB90sYMQWvkz3fwKOTNipJvvDAogEm042GfAE02NE
Email correspondence from Cushings library with sources to learn about Lawrence Sullivan Ross:
"Hello Brian,
Records for the time of Ross as President of the then College are scarce. The Main Building that housed the President's office, the library, archives, and other offices burned down in 1912. Images of the Main Building aflame and its destruction can be seen here, https://www.flickr.com/photos/cushinglibrary/sets/72157618425627692/.The College's records, up to that point in time, were held in that building. The Academic Building stands on what had been the location of Main.
The Battalion and Aggieland (and its predecessors) are online at https://library.tamu.edu/yearbooks/ and https://newspaper.library.tamu.edu, respectively. They are text searchable.
You've already searched LibCat (https://libcat.tamu.edu) and Archon since you have located and requested information for your research. There are several books that may be pertinent, below. I would not be surprised if some were available for browsing through the HathiTrust (https://www.hathitrust.org), so you may to check there, given the limited physical services the Libraries have currently.
Benner, Judith Ann. Sul Ross, Soldier, Statesman, Educator. College Station: Texas A&M University Press, 1983.
Cofer, David Brooks. Early History of Texas A&M College Through Letters and Papers. College Station: Agricultural & Mechanical College of Texas, 1952.
Dethloff, Henry C. A Centennial History of Texas A&M University, 1876-1976. College Station, Texas A&M UP, 1975. 2 Volumes.
Perry, George S. The Story of Texas A&M. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1951.
In addition to a search for Ross as a subject/keyword in both LibCat and Archon, I would suggest Archon searches for "Board of Directors", President, etc for any archival records from that time period.
As you are no doubt aware, many campus functions have shifted due to Covid-19. The Libraries are no exception. Currently, we are not open and am not sure when we will resume operations that support researchers, such as yourself. Once we are open again, I encourage you to request materials that you may find relevant from your searches in Archon and LibCat. Once the request is received and a research appointment made, we can pull books or archival materials for you to work with in the Reading Room.
Since Ross was also the Governor of Texas, there are materials that can be researched at the Texas State Library and Archives (TSLAC) in Austin https://www.tsl.texas.gov/arc/index.html#Guides. To my eye, the "Processed State and Local Records" https://www.tsl.texas.gov/arc/findingaids/recordsfindingaids.html and "Executive Record Books" https://www.tsl.texas.gov/arc/exrecordsbks.html would be the most pertinent of those listed on that page. A statewide search engine, though dated, is TARO - http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/index.html - which is easier to navigate than TSLAC's for search results. Texas legislative records are handled by the Legislature and more information can be found out here https://capitol.texas.gov/MnuSearch.aspx or here https://www.lrl.texas.gov/legis/billsearch/lrlhome.cfm for any legislation or votes he supported as a state Senator. Baylor is also part of TSLAC's Regional Historical Resource Depositories (RHRD) system and may house county records from when Ross was sheriff of McLennan Co in their Texas Collection. More information is here: https://www.tsl.texas.gov/arc/local/depositories.html. Baylor and UT also have some Ross papers in their archives.
Since he was a well-known public figure, there was wide spread newspaper coverage at the time. One of my colleagues in the Libraries, Bill Page, has undertaken several long-term projects to find A&M related topics (Ross, Matthew Gaines, 1918 Flu pandemic, Asian American Students, Women at A&M, African Americans in B/CS Cosmopolitan Club -the precursor of the International Students Club , etc) in the newspaper materials that we have, mainly in the form of microfiche/microfilm or through online providers. As such he has produced a nearly 300-page document about newspaper articles, academic articles and chapters, assorted government documents, etc about Ross. I have attached that for your reference.
Best,
Anton duPlessis
--
Anton duPlessis, Certified Archivist
Clinical Associate Professor
Curator, Mexican Colonial Collection
co-Curator, Chapman Texas & Borderlands Collection
Curator, Ragan Military Collection
Director, Los Primeros Libros Project
Selector and Liaison to Hispanic Studies
Cushing Memorial Library & Archives
Texas A&M University Libraries
duplessis@tamu.edu
5000 TAMU | College Station, TX 77843-5000
Tel. 979-845-1951 | Fax. 979-845-1441
https://tamu.zoom.us/j/4896252885
https://library.tamu.edu
http://primeroslibros.org"
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1I_LzpuXi8LJoCnLRxUmakZI9zLvzpiv9cWVMv-mLUvk/edit?usp=drivesdk
https://www.change.org/p/texas-a-m-university-administration-it-s-time-to-remove-the-sully-statue?recruiter=1107385293&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_abi&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial&recruited_by_id=312c6e40-a63e-11ea-96fe-d7532c6154cd&utm_content=fht-22553366-en-us%3Av2
"The devil is in the details. During the second wave of the Klan made its first appearance in Texas at Houston in the fall of 1920 add a reunions of the United Confederate Veterans. It quickly spread in the 1920s. Probably a majority of the House of Representatives of the 38th legislature over klansman. The clan March in downtown Bryan in 1920 or 1921. I'm guessing that many of the folks who pushed for the statue in 1919 would shortly become klansman in the 1920s. They knew exactly what they were doing. Sully was a white supremacist in the white supremacists knew it." - Dr. Alvard
"Michael Kraft, an older man who lives in Bryan, said that his grandfather was on faculty at A&M in the 20s and told him that everyone in faculty in the 20s had to be in the Klan." Dan K., fellow student - further research off this leads to the KKK robes of faculty in Cushing Library
Bill Page is sharing information with me and said to share with others. Here is an interesting article he found from The Eagle in 1911. Life was tough for professors and their families...
The labor situation at A. & M. College continues to be serious because of the large number of laborers, men and women, who are in the cotton patch getting out the crop. Because of the increase in dormitories it has been found necessary to increase the janitor force of the college, but Negroes are not available for the work. An effort was made to get competent Negro janitors in Houston but it failed and the present janitor force is doubling up on the work until the necessary men can be found. The handling of the family washing each week is also a problem. Because of the lack of women who will do the work several of the ladies of the campus have had to go to the washtub during the past week, and while in several instances a woman could be employed to do the washing, "milady" has had to do the ironing. Cooks are out of the question, and the lady of the house in many instances is cooking for the family also. But the wives of the officers and professors of the college are resourceful and they can do this work when it is necessary, and they are not too proud to do it. Bryan Daily Eagle, 6 October 1911, page 2
http://www.thebatt.com/news/milestones-tracing-the-corps-of-cadets-history/article_d12768b0-3fff-11e9-89bb-83227f6a2f26.html
https://www.tamu.edu/traditions/the-corps/special-units/index.html
https://www.tamu.edu/traditions/aggie-culture/aggie-ring/index.html#:~:text=The%20tradition%20of%20the%20Aggie,symbols%20used%20in%20today's%20design.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://oaktrust.library.tamu.edu/bitstream/handle/1969.1/ETD-TAMU-2832/CAULFIELD-THESIS.pdf%3Fsequence%3D1%26isAllowed%3Dy&ved=2ahUKEwih_8-t16jqAhVGRqwKHQCqCj4QFjANegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw2Wy5dIEIo301gC_0HRSBjM&cshid=1593490803084
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc2829/m2/1/high_res_d/dissertation.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjfo5eC36jqAhUEnKwKHeEsBUIQFjAOegQICxAB&usg=AOvVaw3ZzzEhkBzZfRKpZqghTX8c&cshid=1593492913308
Today in Aggie History: A&M hires Thomas Gathright as first president
COLE, JAMES REID | The Handbook of Texas Online
Cover Feature - Howdy, Mr. President
Lone Star Legacy: Introducing Joseph Holick -- Musician, Band Leader and Boot Maker
https://books.google.com/books?id=CrwaNTd4bdIC&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=governor+hobby+united+daughters+of+confederacy&source=bl&ots=NhgWpfc7tF&sig=ACfU3U003QnsH1-TW4WU1ogxmCZpV-JmIg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjuvKyxq6rqAhUDlawKHdlfCNMQ6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=governor%20hobby%20united%20daughters%20of%20confederacy&f=false
https://lrl.texas.gov/legeLeaders/governors/govPage.cfm?governorID=26
https://books.google.com/books?id=CrwaNTd4bdIC&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=governor+hobby+united+daughters+of+confederacy&source=bl&ots=NhgWpfc7tF&sig=ACfU3U003QnsH1-TW4WU1ogxmCZpV-JmIg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjuvKyxq6rqAhUDlawKHdlfCNMQ6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=governor%20hobby%20united%20daughters%20of%20confederacy&f=false
https://www.lib.lsu.edu/sites/default/files/sc/findaid/1357.pdf
https://www.essentialcivilwarcurriculum.com/confederate-veterans-associations.html
https://lrl.texas.gov/scanned/specialSessions/35-1supp.pdf
https://lrl.texas.gov/sessions/specialSessions/specialSessionTopics.cfm?legSessionID=35-1
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.texasresearchramblers.org/newspapers/1923TWENTY-fiveYearsAgo(1898).pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjEnt6l7arqAhXrmq0KHSLbDWQ4ChAWMAl6BAgBEAE&usg=AOvVaw0fjVMsEw0SuAot1fxS2CNX
https://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:William_Bagby_(5)
https://books.google.com/books?id=CrwaNTd4bdIC&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=mrs.+bill+bagby+United+daughters+of+the+confederacy&source=bl&ots=NhgWpi83pL&sig=ACfU3U2NB_imCZm9psmSFEK3t0Q9O3BV5A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwikzvHPiqvqAhUCQq0KHcg3D1YQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=mrs.%20bill%20bagby%20United%20daughters%20of%20the%20confederacy&f=false
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/3395802/clan-parade-bryan/
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/589763/the-bryan-weekly-eagle/
https://www.thc.texas.gov/public/upload/Centennial/Monuments%20and%20Buildings%20MPS.pdf
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q5AEjwVSd87s9fnep0_YiyJZLXwIy7oG/view?usp=drivesdk
https://www.wacomasonic.org/sul-ross/
https://lrl.texas.gov/committees/cmtesDisplay.cfm?cmteID=3650&s=TRUE
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth543730/m1/4/
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XI4h66wr0wxgx7jQYvjcwsYFxv3gtwDX/view?usp=drivesdk
https://books.googleusercontent.com/books/content?req=AKW5QaeHX83IZINlnazpR0Qizz6J1u9z7DllWgJkoqIg4KC0UdV9FqdJaLYvAeQSvCEkGVHBDUPrPTmVY9BddSzkS7MMNFm5Wv9DgCPCbDaqrNsh6_9gmrLUDt-R22nHdwkTKAFz4fj1xXv1TPWO-CtnMLCKuPv6ew_wa5LgJk5hexCmtRkZFum34tbY-lkxQyf3wVhq6UQ0Vu3MJSjp2kwJFKDeA_mdbE6SA25PFQXNeiaAIXnv7pTrzWwu89vCcHklOReU3cPA4RnOX1Jt2eRTi218dVuNdQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XTOCUZCAPsO1zq7QMRpQ9i4ZJ5dwpcRe/view?usp=drivesdk
https://books.google.com/books?id=VtaZVBagK7sC&pg=PA175&lpg=PA175&dq=sul+ross+negro+killer&source=bl&ots=eAlICKX4lX&sig=ACfU3U1jtaTZk2aGFm0WZ82M4-sB24np8Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj0ocWaleLqAhUDCawKHSEsAaE4HhDoATAGegQICRAB#v=onepage&q=sul%20ross&f=false
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aFQNPppQ22roAIb2mLWIFtrVqTd6GOHs/view?usp=drivesdk
https://books.google.com/books?id=CAb8Zf-4R7wC&pg=PA102&lpg=PA102&dq=mary+r+barnard+sul+ross&source=bl&ots=wSx-dHbKqR&sig=ACfU3U2h0GPqnBB61X5rEac1vPVqw57BYA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjQjvGf6unqAhUDLKwKHfBYBaAQ6AEwEnoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=mary%20r%20barnard%20sul%20ross&f=false
Multiple hands went in to researching and compiling this data. There are reasons not to support the statue. It isn't for lack of history and knowledge.
By all means, make up your own mind, but at least do so with all the facts at your disposal.
 

 

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nnm

nnm 36455

Posted
Posted

I took the time to read through that wall of text. He could benefit from an editor. Not very well written and includes some specious arguments, such as starting with a full indictment of Sully’s father’s ownership of slaves (no indication Sully himself ever did).  Definitely not the best argument, and should have been either consigned to a footnote or removed. Oh well. 

I also skimmed through the Texags thread. Many of them have already said “not another dime” because Mond hasn’t been kicked off, etc.  At this point, what does aggy admin have to lose by keeping the statue?  The red asses are already so mad they’ve supposedly stopped giving. So why not just rip the bandaid off?  

I know, because aggy, that’s why. 

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