Tell Me About Texas a&m

[Jkwellborn 7006]

I'm sure Jimbo would be more attentive to shit like that if they just paid him a little more. 

The sign was just posted too high for him to see.

[closetojumping 65245]

11 hours ago, Randolph Duke said:

A quiet period allows in-person contacts on campus. 

As long as the pool party is on campus, what’s the issue? 

Christ. 

I felt like when I saw this OV issue posted on this thread that you’d fuck it up even though it’s a fucking softball thrown your way. Here we are. 

Of all of the non-aggies in the world, you are for certain the aggiest, Randolph. 

[Gidnik 3475]

On 7/14/2022 at 9:12 AM, statsman said:

Transcript of the link above, from the BC:

Most cultures, modern and ancient, have ghost stories. Even cultures that do not have an afterlife in their religious cosmology are concerned about the restless spirit, kept from its deserved rest.
 

The great secret that the young do not know, but those older do, is that death in itself is not to be feared.

  Death is the natural end of things, and we all become better acquainted with it as we age.  The great tragedy is leaving unfinished business when dying- the promises not kept, the important message unsaid, the blessing not given.  That is why the deaths of the young are so hard to accept.

 There are two major competing narratives of the events of late November, 1999.  The first is that the Aggie Bonfire, one of their dearest traditions, had grown beyond sound engineering design and industrial safety principles, and had tragically collapsed, killing 12 student volunteers and injuring a couple dozen more.  The next week, the Texas A&M football team defeated the Texas Longhorns in a football game, 20 – 16.  This game gave comfort to the Texas A&M campus, but in no way lessened the magnitude of the prior week’s tragedy, and indeed these were two separate and unlinked events.  During the game, there were formal recognitions of the loss, but this was more of a function of the game as the next major university collective event than the possibility of gaining any redemption from the game.  Going forward, it is understood that the best way to honor the dead is to remember them, how and why they died, and to never again let the students undertake such a task without proper supervision and controls.
 

 There is a second narrative, suppressed 10 years ago, but coming to the forefront now.  This telling says that the bonfire had deep spiritual significance to all Aggies, and that its value was too high to surrender.  The claim here is that the kids died doing something they loved, and that should be respected.  Here, the Aggie win is seen as a victory for the spirit of bonfire, inspiring an underdog Aggie team to victory.  Per this telling, the best way to honor the dead is to use their memory as an inspiration in the annual football game with Texas.

 Think I’m exaggerating?  That no right thinking person could think that a football game can “make up” for the deaths and maimings of dozens?  Guess again.  That view is gaining more and more hold among the Aggie faithful, supported by some Aggie officials who were not even on campus 10 years ago, and its advance is shameful.

 The 10^th anniversary of the collapse was November 18, 2009.  Texas A&M had timely and appropriate on-campus recognitions.  The next Aggie home football game was against Baylor on November 21.  That was not the campus gathering where the tragedy was recognized.  The November 26 game against Texas was the game where the anniversary was commemorated.  When questioned why this game, and not the Baylor game, Ags say it is because the bonfire was for Texas, and not for Baylor.  It is as if the deaths made any imagined link between the bonfire and the game stronger, not weaker.
 

 The TAMU athletics department is selling an inspirational DVD that explores the bonfire history, the tragic, lethal collapse,…and the 1999 football victory.  They previewed this video for the students before Wednesday Yell Practice.  The message?  “It happened 10 years ago, and IT CAN HAPPEN AGAIN IF WE GET FIRED UP.”

 Why should anybody care if the Texas A&M AD should do this?  After all, they obviously need all the cash and inspiration they can get.  Longhorns should care, because it is tasteless, classless, and the ideas it inspires are dangerous.  Let’s be clear- in no way did the Aggie win in 1999 lessen the tragedy of the prior week.  No sane person can imagine a parent of one of the fallen finally steeling themselves a week after the funeral, entering the child’s bedroom in order to sort the clothes and belongings to be donated to charity from those to be given to cousins, and thinking to themselves, “At least we won that football game.”  For those who were actually close to the victims, winning the game gave absolutely no relief, just as losing would not have made the burden more difficult to bear.  

 Contrary to what many Ags post on Texags.com and elsewhere, that these students “died doing what they loved” is not a relief.  Nelson Rockefeller also died doing what he loved.  If he had known what the result was to be, he would have instead gone home early an had a cup of tea before getting to bed early.
 

 Neither winning the game, nor bringing the bonfire tradition back, gives meaning to their death.  The sad fact is that 99.99% of humanity will have no meaning in their deaths.  That senselessness adds to the tragedy of their too soon deaths.

 In the years since, an independent investigation revealed some uncomfortable truths (of course, in this world very few truths comfort, and those that do must be held tight) about the role of the Aggie culture and its emphasis on tradition and conformity in causing the collapse.  The university shielded its financial responsibility behind state laws limiting liability.  It built a monument to the 12 that died.  It is a much more meaningful monument than many realize, with stone gates pointed in the direction of their home towns- a silent reminder that this campus is not where their too short lives were lived, but rather where they ended.  It is a natural human emotion to want to find meaning in the deaths and sufferings of those close to us, to see God's hand active for a higher purpose.  Sometimes the actual meaning is that there is no meaning, the pain increased by the needlessness of the tragedy.

 It is now 10 years later, and the Texas A&M athletics department is pimping the memories of these kids, in an attempt to increase the enthusiasm of the fans and the intensity of the team.  It is classless of them.  Texas A&M Athletics owns no claim on these kids, nor their families. 
 

 I know this is controversial.  I thought quite a bit over whether seemliness calls for silence here.  Realizing that Texas A&M is openly joining this issue to the University of Texas, by emphasizing their football game with us as the only appropriate venue for remembering the events, allows us to comment.  Over the entrance to the tower in Austin, it reads “You shall know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”  It’s fair to talk about what is true, and what is not.

 Texas A&M approached UT about being a participant again in bonfire collapse recognition ceremonies, offering a chance to recapture good will earned 10 years prior.  Wisely, Texas declined.  Mack Brown recognized that any such moments would be far more about raising spirit to win a football game than about sincerely mourning a loss.  Remember, the Texas sideline actually has several coaches that were there for those awful events 10 years ago.  None of the Aggie coaches were (TAMU Recruiting Coordinator Tim Cassaday held the same position.  He is on record as stating that “the Aggie Spirit” won the 1999 game).  I was pleased to see that ESPN only gave a cursory mention to the Ags’ recognition activities. 

 I hope I get some dissenting comments.  I really don’t want to think that the TAMU community is OK with the idea that their school is trying to use this event to help win a football game.  Please, Longhorns, don’t reply with gripes about the Ramada Inn, or penalties.  That’s not what this post is about.  I have to admit that I am very relieved that Texas won.  If the Ags had won this game, we would see this revisited every 10 years, and the myth of the “Fallen 12” helping the team beat Texas would overshadow the real lessons from that truly tragic events.  The actual memorial site would become a prop for future football rallies, its actual purpose pushed to the side and forgotten.

 Please, Bill Byrne.  Let the ghosts lie, undisturbed in their deserved peace.

heres the article that he posted, only its posted in plain text so that people using darkmode can fucking read it. 

Quote

 

Most cultures, modern and ancient, have ghost stories. Even cultures that do not have an afterlife in their religious cosmology are concerned about the restless spirit, kept from its deserved rest.

The great secret that the young do not know, but those older do, is that death in itself is not to be feared.

  Death is the natural end of things, and we all become better acquainted with it as we age.  The great tragedy is leaving unfinished business when dying- the promises not kept, the important message unsaid, the blessing not given.  That is why the deaths of the young are so hard to accept.

 There are two major competing narratives of the events of late November, 1999.  The first is that the Aggie Bonfire, one of their dearest traditions, had grown beyond sound engineering design and industrial safety principles, and had tragically collapsed, killing 12 student volunteers and injuring a couple dozen more.  The next week, the Texas A&M football team defeated the Texas Longhorns in a football game, 20 – 16.  This game gave comfort to the Texas A&M campus, but in no way lessened the magnitude of the prior week’s tragedy, and indeed these were two separate and unlinked events.  During the game, there were formal recognitions of the loss, but this was more of a function of the game as the next major university collective event than the possibility of gaining any redemption from the game.  Going forward, it is understood that the best way to honor the dead is to remember them, how and why they died, and to never again let the students undertake such a task without proper supervision and controls.

 There is a second narrative, suppressed 10 years ago, but coming to the forefront now.  This telling says that the bonfire had deep spiritual significance to all Aggies, and that its value was too high to surrender.  The claim here is that the kids died doing something they loved, and that should be respected.  Here, the Aggie win is seen as a victory for the spirit of bonfire, inspiring an underdog Aggie team to victory.  Per this telling, the best way to honor the dead is to use their memory as an inspiration in the annual football game with Texas.

 Think I’m exaggerating?  That no right thinking person could think that a football game can “make up” for the deaths and maimings of dozens?  Guess again.  That view is gaining more and more hold among the Aggie faithful, supported by some Aggie officials who were not even on campus 10 years ago, and its advance is shameful.

 The 10th anniversary of the collapse was November 18, 2009.  Texas A&M had timely and appropriate on-campus recognitions.  The next Aggie home football game was against Baylor on November 21.  That was not the campus gathering where the tragedy was recognized.  The November 26 game against Texas was the game where the anniversary was commemorated.  When questioned why this game, and not the Baylor game, Ags say it is because the bonfire was for Texas, and not for Baylor.  It is as if the deaths made any imagined link between the bonfire and the game stronger, not weaker.

 The TAMU athletics department is selling an inspirational DVD that explores the bonfire history, the tragic, lethal collapse,…and the 1999 football victory.  They previewed this video for the students before Wednesday Yell Practice.  The message?  “It happened 10 years ago, and IT CAN HAPPEN AGAIN IF WE GET FIRED UP.”

 Why should anybody care if the Texas A&M AD should do this?  After all, they obviously need all the cash and inspiration they can get.  Longhorns should care, because it is tasteless, classless, and the ideas it inspires are dangerous.  Let’s be clear- in no way did the Aggie win in 1999 lessen the tragedy of the prior week.  No sane person can imagine a parent of one of the fallen finally steeling themselves a week after the funeral, entering the child’s bedroom in order to sort the clothes and belongings to be donated to charity from those to be given to cousins, and thinking to themselves, “At least we won that football game.”  For those who were actually close to the victims, winning the game gave absolutely no relief, just as losing would not have made the burden more difficult to bear.  

 Contrary to what many Ags post on Texags.com and elsewhere, that these students “died doing what they loved” is not a relief.  Nelson Rockefeller also died doing what he loved.  If he had known what the result was to be, he would have instead gone home early an had a cup of tea before getting to bed early.

 Neither winning the game, nor bringing the bonfire tradition back, gives meaning to their death.  The sad fact is that 99.99% of humanity will have no meaning in their deaths.  That senselessness adds to the tragedy of their too soon deaths.

 In the years since, an independent investigation revealed some uncomfortable truths (of course, in this world very few truths comfort, and those that do must be held tight) about the role of the Aggie culture and its emphasis on tradition and conformity in causing the collapse.  The university shielded its financial responsibility behind state laws limiting liability.  It built a monument to the 12 that died.  It is a much more meaningful monument than many realize, with stone gates pointed in the direction of their home towns- a silent reminder that this campus is not where their too short lives were lived, but rather where they ended.  It is a natural human emotion to want to find meaning in the deaths and sufferings of those close to us, to see God's hand active for a higher purpose.  Sometimes the actual meaning is that there is no meaning, the pain increased by the needlessness of the tragedy.

 It is now 10 years later, and the Texas A&M athletics department is pimping the memories of these kids, in an attempt to increase the enthusiasm of the fans and the intensity of the team.  It is classless of them.  Texas A&M Athletics owns no claim on these kids, nor their families. 

 I know this is controversial.  I thought quite a bit over whether seemliness calls for silence here.  Realizing that Texas A&M is openly joining this issue to the University of Texas, by emphasizing their football game with us as the only appropriate venue for remembering the events, allows us to comment.  Over the entrance to the tower in Austin, it reads “You shall know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”  It’s fair to talk about what is true, and what is not.

 Texas A&M approached UT about being a participant again in bonfire collapse recognition ceremonies, offering a chance to recapture good will earned 10 years prior.  Wisely, Texas declined.  Mack Brown recognized that any such moments would be far more about raising spirit to win a football game than about sincerely mourning a loss.  Remember, the Texas sideline actually has several coaches that were there for those awful events 10 years ago.  None of the Aggie coaches were (TAMU Recruiting Coordinator Tim Cassaday held the same position.  He is on record as stating that “the Aggie Spirit” won the 1999 game).  I was pleased to see that ESPN only gave a cursory mention to the Ags’ recognition activities. 

 I hope I get some dissenting comments.  I really don’t want to think that the TAMU community is OK with the idea that their school is trying to use this event to help win a football game.  Please, Longhorns, don’t reply with gripes about the Ramada Inn, or penalties.  That’s not what this post is about.  I have to admit that I am very relieved that Texas won.  If the Ags had won this game, we would see this revisited every 10 years, and the myth of the “Fallen 12” helping the team beat Texas would overshadow the real lessons from that truly tragic events.  The actual memorial site would become a prop for future football rallies, its actual purpose pushed to the side and forgotten.

 Please, Bill Byrne.  Let the ghosts lie, undisturbed in their deserved peace.

 

 

[MAUFRAIS 6731]

[Cairn Horn88 8500]

2 hours ago, MAUFRAIS said:

Cheap paint job.

[ousux 5635]

The pool party is usually held at an apartment complex, but that’s not the issue. The issue is that aggy corches scheduled some of these recruits’ trips as official visits, which means that the school was going to pay for travel expenses, meals and hotel rooms for the weekend. They had to contact recruits today and let them know that they now had to pay their own way to get to aggieland and attend the glorious pool party. Some of those recruits are now likely to cancel their trips. One of them just got crystal balled to Kentucky shortly after being informed of the mistake. 

Lol, they will find a way to pay for the most important recruits visits..you can count on it.

[Al Czervik 1259]

4 hours ago, MAUFRAIS said:

Saw this on the beach too, kept driving, too many mouth breathers have taken over the beach. 

[Royale with cheese 1491]

12 hours ago, MAUFRAIS said:

Short bus.

Fuckin' perfect. Never change, aggy, never change. 

[Tigersnake 680]

13 hours ago, MAUFRAIS said:

I'm in Port A right now, so this hits close to home. I had considered posting that the town seems unusually infested with aggy before I saw this. Thanks for the public service announcement.

[MAUFRAIS 6731]

I only heard the guy say one thing when I went over to take the picture:

“We’re bad ass water skiers!”

[Randolph Duke 4034]

On 7/16/2022 at 8:26 AM, closetojumping said:

Christ. 

I felt like when I saw this OV issue posted on this thread that you’d fuck it up even though it’s a fucking softball thrown your way. Here we are. 

Of all of the non-aggies in the world, you are for certain the aggiest, Randolph. 

In the era of NIL where 4* recruits can easily recoup recruiting costs, who pays $600 for an OOS athlete to get to a given university for a recruiting trip is meaningless. 

Colleges paying for an OV no longer is impactful. 

If a prospective employer wants to meet to discuss a highly lucrative job opportunity, few professionals are going to refuse the opportunity over a squabble regarding whether or not they are getting mileage reimbursement. 

Top college prospects are focused on the signing bonus, not recruiting expense reimbursement. Welcome to the world of NIL. 

[Hagbard Celine 11157]

rd correct - reimbursement is not stopping Pool

the question is will aggy hold Pool knowing their date has been embargoed by the ncaa starting 1 august 19

***

working backwards to see how they got here......

in 19 a late july date for Pool was still on the reservation

in 19 an august date for Pool would have been 'illegal'.....

what was the date for Pool in 19?

obviously no Pool in 20

did they have Pool last year?

what was the date for Pool in 21?

[The University 852]

Quote

if you want to view paradise, simply look around and view it.

[South Austin 53153]

Come with me, and we’ll see, a world of pure mediocrity.

[Cairn Horn88 8500]

21 minutes ago, The University said:

I’ve seen Paradise, and this is no Paradise.

[nnm 37737]

1 hour ago, Randolph Duke said:

In the era of NIL where 4* recruits can easily recoup recruiting costs, who pays $600 for an OOS athlete to get to a given university for a recruiting trip is meaningless. 

Colleges paying for an OV no longer is impactful. 

If a prospective employer wants to meet to discuss a highly lucrative job opportunity, few professionals are going to refuse the opportunity over a squabble regarding whether or not they are getting mileage reimbursement. 

Top college prospects are focused on the signing bonus, not recruiting expense reimbursement. Welcome to the world of NIL. 

Exactly. I’m all for piling on aggy, but this is meaningless. Dead periods, contacts, impermissible benefits, etc. are all NCAA rules.  WGAF anymore? What exactly are they going to do? Send a strongly worded letter?  They are completely irrelevant. 

[Royale with cheese 1491]

33 minutes ago, The University said:

Silk purse, something-something-something, sow's ear, something-something . . .

[Randolph Duke 4034]

34 minutes ago, nnm said:

Exactly. I’m all for piling on aggy, but this is meaningless. Dead periods, contacts, impermissible benefits, etc. are all NCAA rules.  WGAF anymore? What exactly are they going to do? Send a strongly worded letter?  They are completely irrelevant. 

Exactly. The world of recruiting has changed materially since NIL. There are no rules and enforcement is a running joke. No one in a position of oversight understands how things have changed.

Even if the A&M recruiting director doesn’t understand Quiet Period rules, plenty of others (high school coaches, compliance staff, “uncles”) have their eyes on the recruiting calendar. 

Whats more interesting to me is whether NIL is creating incentives for top recruits to commit early, before allocated endorsement dollars are committed to others. If so, aggy’s lack of early momentum is more significant than recruits having to pay out of pocket to meet with Jimbo’s staff and defer official until after the season starts. 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Randolph Duke

[closetojumping 65245]

2 hours ago, Randolph Duke said:

In the era of NIL where 4* recruits can easily recoup recruiting costs, who pays $600 for an OOS athlete to get to a given university for a recruiting trip is meaningless. 

Colleges paying for an OV no longer is impactful. 

If a prospective employer wants to meet to discuss a highly lucrative job opportunity, few professionals are going to refuse the opportunity over a squabble regarding whether or not they are getting mileage reimbursement. 

Top college prospects are focused on the signing bonus, not recruiting expense reimbursement. Welcome to the world of NIL. 

 

1 hour ago, nnm said:

Exactly. I’m all for piling on aggy, but this is meaningless. Dead periods, contacts, impermissible benefits, etc. are all NCAA rules.  WGAF anymore? What exactly are they going to do? Send a strongly worded letter?  They are completely irrelevant. 

 

55 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

Exactly. The world of recruiting has changed materially since NIL. There are no rules and enforcement is a running joke. No one in a position of oversight understands how things have changed.

Even if the A&M recruiting director doesn’t understand Quiet Period rules, plenty of others (high school coaches, compliance staff, “uncles”) have their eyes on the recruiting calendar. 

Whats more interesting to me is whether NIL is creating incentives for top recruits to commit early, before allocated endorsement dollars are committed to others. If so, aggy’s lack of early momentum is more significant than recruits having to pay out of pocket to meet with Jimbo’s staff and defer official until after the season starts. 

You know how I know neither of you dipshits know anything about recruiting and how OVs versus UOVs work? Because you just fucking told me. It’s not even worth lazy energy to try and walk you through how it matters. And no shit recruits and parents get paid to visit these days. That isn’t the joke here. 

Doesn’t matter though, as the rest of the CFB world gets it and they’re being mocked appropriately and run over by rival coaches. 

[ChiTownDoc 21323]

1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

 

 

You know how I know neither of you dipshits know anything about recruiting and how OVs versus UOVs work? Because you just fucking told me. It’s not even worth lazy energy to try and walk you through how it matters. And no shit recruits and parents get paid to visit these days. That isn’t the joke here. 

Doesn’t matter though, as the rest of the CFB world gets it and they’re being mocked appropriately and run over by rival coaches. 

You seem to know what's going on.  WTF is up with aggy recruiting?  How the hell do you go from number 1 to this?  I mean it would be very aggy to blow all their money early and have empty pockets now but with how well oil is doing, I find that hard to believe.  Can't wait to see them waste all that talent from that number 1 class.  

[CowtownHorn 5126]

[nnm 37737]

1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

 

 

You know how I know neither of you dipshits know anything about recruiting and how OVs versus UOVs work? Because you just fucking told me. It’s not even worth lazy energy to try and walk you through how it matters. And no shit recruits and parents get paid to visit these days. That isn’t the joke here. 

Doesn’t matter though, as the rest of the CFB world gets it and they’re being mocked appropriately and run over by rival coaches. 

I’m aware of how it USED to work. I’ve been following CFB and ‘crootin’ for 4 decades. All that you would have explained to me, but didn’t have time, is well understood by most on this board. 
 

It’s also irrelevant. They’re NCAA rules. Nobody, especially aggy, gives a flying fornication about NCAA rules anymore. Well, some people do, and some schools do, but they shouldn’t. 

[Deej 77668]

I'm sure any visiting recruits can pony up the $1.75 for ribs and chicken two days past the sell by date that aggy picked up at Food 'n Stuff. 

[closetojumping 65245]

1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

You seem to know what's going on.  WTF is up with aggy recruiting?  How the hell do you go from number 1 to this?  I mean it would be very aggy to blow all their money early and have empty pockets now but with how well oil is doing, I find that hard to believe.  Can't wait to see them waste all that talent from that number 1 class.  

Problem for both of us is that we got a lot of shit going on. I lay it on the ATM 2023 recruiting thread over the past few pages and was saying more or less all of it consistently since the start of this cycle. But you may not have that much time or interest to go through 4-5 pages. It's hard to do well repeating here, especially given the nature of this thread is different than that one, but I'll try. I figure given the fact that every page on this thread has at least 2 posts from Randolph Duke trending towards 5000 words, so the length on this post won't anger anyone.---

Suffice it to say, no, they're not out of money. The bigger problem is that their timing for the 2022 class was truly serendipitous on multiple levels. The 2022 class is the actual outlier, and they're going to pay a price above rubies for having it unfold the way it did.

In the 2022 class, these things happened:

1) ATM alums committed from the get-go in the winter of 2021/2022 to landing a massive haul, leveraging the 9-1 corona season and making a push towards the upper echelon. I was writing about this last Jan 2021 forward on that board, so the recruiting dorks here weren't really shocked by what unfolded, but even we were surprised at the magnitude of it all. A few of us have friends involved with covering things for Texas and nationally and one of my business partners is directly involved with driving what happened last cycle at ATM. Plus I have buddies at some other places, including inside the machine in Tuscaloosa. All of these cats knew that ATM was going to be a force in 2022's signed classes.

2) Complete upheaval around ATM geographically. Texas shits itself and goes 5-7. Riley pulls his bullshit. LSU dumps out and then hires a yankee. Florida spits the bit. Auburn falls apart. Bama and Georgia can't sign everybody. Penn State sucking wind also helped. 

3) NIL has become a bigger maelstrom, and done so faster, than anyone expected. That led to adjustments happening rather quickly for schools normally playing the bag game, who started recalibrating towards NIL. ATM ended up being a bigger player in the bag game in part due to dilapidating competition. 

4) Finally, for 2022 this wasn't part of the fortuitous nature of what happened for them, but it certainly is a big deal in all of this - ATM did what aggies always do and aggied the whole thing up. They went so over the top on the bags that they wound up only bidding against themselves on multiple recruitments - Dindy, Evan Stewart, the Miami Stewart, a couple of the guys from NJ/PA, and Walter Nolen, at least. 

So what now? Well, NIL money, interest, and competitiveness across the landscape is already dwarfing the dark market in size and scope. You are a program that has NIL going (Texas, Oregon, Ohio State, Miami), or you're showing proof of concept that you can do it (UGA, Michigan, ND), or you can do it in limited ways and will be hyperfocused with it (SEC powers who don't have massive jack beyond what they were doing in the bag game), or you're making shit up and hoping to figure it out by the time what you've sold needs to be delivered (USC, Kansas, this is also what Switzer and OU have done - they're hoping to fully fund FB, women's gymnastics (I think) and women's softball - the sports in which they're already market leaders. you may know more there, but this is the word in that the concept is fine, but it's not funded yet and he announced it as though it were.), and then you've got ATM, who is still trying to play the bag game and poo-poo the NIL world to recruits. That tactic worked a little last cycle, and it is failing this cycle. Every recruit, and I mean every one of them, that teams talk to now are asking within the first 10 minutes of dialogue about how the school's NIL looks and can work for them. 

Well, ATM doesn't have an answer for that yet. They were also not really worried about it. Now the realization is setting in that the bags above the table can get pretty big, and if you don't have additional corporate density on top of rabid alumni support, you might as well light the cigarette now, because you're already fucked if you don't have a rich tradition of winning titles or Phil Knight. 

Next, with their behaviors in the 2022 cycle, then mocking everyone with overt lies in the press, then attacking the fucking GOAT, and constantly at every turn shitting on Texas and the rest of the Big 12, they pissed everyone off. Every school recruiting right now is going out of their way to vomit on ATM to recruits. It's hostile. 

After that, they replaced quality with garbage in key coaching roles. Durkin for Elko is a massive net negative from a player/recruit relations perspective. Elko was a fucking animal in recruiting. Trading out Henson and getting Addazzio instead is a hilarious downgrade in every aspect. There are recruits out there telling stories about what an asshole Addazzio has been to them in dialogue, already. Whoops. Losing Schmidt to OU was also a big deal according to some. I don't know how seriously to take that tidbit. 

Finally, they went 8-4 with the bowl forfeit last season. Their results are starting to just look like typical aggie results. They have the stench of eternal mediocrity attached to them and other programs are beating the shit out of them with that. Plenty of schools do that to Texas too, but with schools like Arkansas, Baylor, and ATM, the Texas rebuttal of "they're Baylor/Arkansas/ATM. they're mediocre forever. we're Texas and we will be back." Doesn't work as well against OU, Bama, and a few others of course. 

ATM will eventually drop a giant bag on a few players and finish with a top 20 class. Anything better than that will surprise me, and I've been saying they were in for rougher waters since this past winter when people starting really grinding about what they'd done. I'm still surprised it is this ugly with them. And yes, irrespective of other sentiments on this page, there's been further blowback for getting the OV shit wrong with some of the guests invited at the end of the month. 

[ChiTownDoc 21323]

5 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Problem for both of us is that we got a lot of shit going on. I lay it on the ATM 2023 recruiting thread over the past few pages and was saying more or less all of it consistently since the start of this cycle. But you may not have that much time or interest to go through 4-5 pages. It's hard to do well repeating here, especially given the nature of this thread is different than that one, but I'll try. I figure given the fact that every page on this thread has at least 2 posts from Randolph Duke trending towards 5000 words, so the length on this post won't anger anyone.---

Suffice it to say, no, they're not out of money. The bigger problem is that their timing for the 2022 class was truly serendipitous on multiple levels. The 2022 class is the actual outlier, and they're going to pay a price above rubies for having it unfold the way it did.

In the 2022 class, these things happened:

1) ATM alums committed from the get-go in the winter of 2021/2022 to landing a massive haul, leveraging the 9-1 corona season and making a push towards the upper echelon. I was writing about this last Jan 2021 forward on that board, so the recruiting dorks here weren't really shocked by what unfolded, but even we were surprised at the magnitude of it all. A few of us have friends involved with covering things for Texas and nationally and one of my business partners is directly involved with driving what happened last cycle at ATM. Plus I have buddies at some other places, including inside the machine in Tuscaloosa. All of these cats knew that ATM was going to be a force in 2022's signed classes.

2) Complete upheaval around ATM geographically. Texas shits itself and goes 5-7. Riley pulls his bullshit. LSU dumps out and then hires a yankee. Florida spits the bit. Auburn falls apart. Bama and Georgia can't sign everybody. Penn State sucking wind also helped. 

3) NIL has become a bigger maelstrom, and done so faster, than anyone expected. That led to adjustments happening rather quickly for schools normally playing the bag game, who started recalibrating towards NIL. ATM ended up being a bigger player in the bag game in part due to dilapidating competition. 

4) Finally, for 2022 this wasn't part of the fortuitous nature of what happened for them, but it certainly is a big deal in all of this - ATM did what aggies always do and aggied the whole thing up. They went so over the top on the bags that they wound up only bidding against themselves on multiple recruitments - Dindy, Evan Stewart, the Miami Stewart, a couple of the guys from NJ/PA, and Walter Nolen, at least. 

So what now? Well, NIL money, interest, and competitiveness across the landscape is already dwarfing the dark market in size and scope. You are a program that has NIL going (Texas, Oregon, Ohio State, Miami), or you're showing proof of concept that you can do it (UGA, Michigan, ND), or you can do it in limited ways and will be hyperfocused with it (SEC powers who don't have massive jack beyond what they were doing in the bag game), or you're making shit up and hoping to figure it out by the time what you've sold needs to be delivered (USC, Kansas, this is also what Switzer and OU have done - they're hoping to fully fund FB, women's gymnastics (I think) and women's softball - the sports in which they're already market leaders. you may know more there, but this is the word in that the concept is fine, but it's not funded yet and he announced it as though it were.), and then you've got ATM, who is still trying to play the bag game and poo-poo the NIL world to recruits. That tactic worked a little last cycle, and it is failing this cycle. Every recruit, and I mean every one of them, that teams talk to now are asking within the first 10 minutes of dialogue about how the school's NIL looks and can work for them. 

Well, ATM doesn't have an answer for that yet. They were also not really worried about it. Now the realization is setting in that the bags above the table can get pretty big, and if you don't have additional corporate density on top of rabid alumni support, you might as well light the cigarette now, because you're already fucked if you don't have a rich tradition of winning titles or Phil Knight. 

Next, with their behaviors in the 2022 cycle, then mocking everyone with overt lies in the press, then attacking the fucking GOAT, and constantly at every turn shitting on Texas and the rest of the Big 12, they pissed everyone off. Every school recruiting right now is going out of their way to vomit on ATM to recruits. It's hostile. 

After that, they replaced quality with garbage in key coaching roles. Durkin for Elko is a massive net negative from a player/recruit relations perspective. Elko was a fucking animal in recruiting. Trading out Henson and getting Addazzio instead is a hilarious downgrade in every aspect. There are recruits out there telling stories about what an asshole Addazzio has been to them in dialogue, already. Whoops. Losing Schmidt to OU was also a big deal according to some. I don't know how seriously to take that tidbit. 

Finally, they went 8-4 with the bowl forfeit last season. Their results are starting to just look like typical aggie results. They have the stench of eternal mediocrity attached to them and other programs are beating the shit out of them with that. Plenty of schools do that to Texas too, but with schools like Arkansas, Baylor, and ATM, the Texas rebuttal of "they're Baylor/Arkansas/ATM. they're mediocre forever. we're Texas and we will be back." Doesn't work as well against OU, Bama, and a few others of course. 

ATM will eventually drop a giant bag on a few players and finish with a top 20 class. Anything better than that will surprise me, and I've been saying they were in for rougher waters since this past winter when people starting really grinding about what they'd done. I'm still surprised it is this ugly with them. And yes, irrespective of other sentiments on this page, there's been further blowback for getting the OV shit wrong with some of the guests invited at the end of the month. 

Gracias.  And yes pretty spot on with your OU read.  

[closetojumping 65245]

33 minutes ago, nnm said:

I’m aware of how it USED to work. I’ve been following CFB and ‘crootin’ for 4 decades. All that you would have explained to me, but didn’t have time, is well understood by most on this board. 
 

It’s also irrelevant. They’re NCAA rules. Nobody, especially aggy, gives a flying fornication about NCAA rules anymore. Well, some people do, and some schools do, but they shouldn’t. 

If you're as up to speed as you think you are, you would have noticed that OVs are still a really big fucking deal. That's why ATM was burning several OVs at the last minute in order to give some poorly trending recruitments, their best foot forward the last weekend in July. They had to move Anthony Hill's up from the fall. Same for Muhammed (he's now committing on 7/20 so he wasn't going to use it anyway), same for some guys up north and east.

There is a reason that every coach, every year, with every hotly contested recruitment, is busting his ass to get the last OV or first OV, depending upon his style choice in recruiting. So no, they're not the same, they're not handled the same, and yes, some of the rules still fucking matter to everyone, including the cheaters, when it comes to OV/UOV. 

You, and anyone else touting the same nonsense, are flat fucking wrong about there being no difference because "these days" or whatever the fuck. I can't even believe this is something about which someone has taken a position.

[Rickylovesweed 15306]

@closetojumpingwhat have you heard about NIL in regards to other sports at A&M?

I know people in the track and field community because my daughter ran at that level and apparently they have a major NIL problem. So much so their coach is thinking about retiring because of how many runners are leaving the program. 

The way you keep talking about A&M disregarding NIL it makes a lot of sense. 

[Penche Gringo 159]

20 hours ago, MAUFRAIS said:

Cool little rig if it didn’t have all of the maroon shit on it.

[rage-a-holic 4712]

ah yes, the "Texas Aggies" garbage. I really wish more Texas schools would jump on this bandwagon and make similar shit to help spotlight aggy idiocy.

 

 

[Teamdirtyleg 1139]

So I have common scale for both coaches.  The big guy is like 6’6”

[Randolph Duke 4034]

6 hours ago, closetojumping said:

If you're as up to speed as you think you are, you would have noticed that OVs are still a really big fucking deal. That's why ATM was burning several OVs at the last minute in order to give some poorly trending recruitments, their best foot forward the last weekend in July. They had to move Anthony Hill's up from the fall. Same for Muhammed (he's now committing on 7/20 so he wasn't going to use it anyway), same for some guys up north and east.

There is a reason that every coach, every year, with every hotly contested recruitment, is busting his ass to get the last OV or first OV, depending upon his style choice in recruiting. So no, they're not the same, they're not handled the same, and yes, some of the rules still fucking matter to everyone, including the cheaters, when it comes to OV/UOV. 

You, and anyone else touting the same nonsense, are flat fucking wrong about there being no difference because "these days" or whatever the fuck. I can't even believe this is something about which someone has taken a position.

I’m not saying you are wrong on any of your comments, but I cant believe if A&M is willing to far outbid all other schools for a given recruit that the kid is going to factor in which school gave him his first OV over the huge bid for his services. 

That would be like a whore taking a lower price because the lower bidder asked first. 

When it’s about money, that’s not how things work, and at the highest levels of college athletics, it’s about the money. aggy proved that last year. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Randolph Duke

[SHOOTER12 8882]

47 minutes ago, Teamdirtyleg said:

So I have common scale for both coaches.  The big guy is like 6’6”

Ritz Bitz indeed 

[Doctor of Neighborhood 439]

11 hours ago, The University said:

Sort of reminds me of Iraq. Horizon always looked greener than the ground actually was. Unfinished construction projects everywhere you looked. It’s just missing goats that survive purely off garbage and dirt. 

[Henry Hill 3156]

What a dump of a city.

[Bill Lumbergh 7337]

10 hours ago, Doctor of Neighborhood said:

It’s just missing goats that survive purely off garbage and dirt. 

You've clearly never visited sorority row in CS.

[Longboard Horn 41316]

22 hours ago, The University said:

Is that their cesspool?

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Longboard Horn
Could possibly be a memorial fountain?

[Longboard Horn 41316]

[Cairn Horn88 8500]

On 7/17/2022 at 10:48 AM, The University said:

If you build it….

[ChiTownDoc 21323]

18 hours ago, Teamdirtyleg said:

So I have common scale for both coaches.  The big guy is like 6’6”

How can we start a fund to get Sark some pressed shirts?  

[Armybrat 41318]

And maybe a hair stylist? 

[Born Burnt 6229]

On 7/17/2022 at 2:04 PM, CowtownHorn said:

[RomaVicta 30500]

16 hours ago, Doctor of Neighborhood said:

It’s just missing goats that survive purely off garbage and dirt. 

The goats of College Station survive off prostitution.

[ChiTownDoc 21323]

24 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

And maybe a hair stylist? 

One thing at a time.  But agree…

edit: at least he’s not blowing hose 

Edited July 18, 2022 by ChiTownDoc

[markstanco 12772]

I love hose that blow.

[Bill Lumbergh 7337]

53 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

How can we start a fund to get Sark some pressed shirts?  

Look at this guy throwing stones like he's some kind of hotshot just brimming with money, cars, and a closet full of only freshly pressed tailored clothes...

 

Oh wait.

 

Shit.

[ChiTownDoc 21323]

6 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

Look at this guy throwing stones like he's some kind of hotshot just brimming with money, cars, and a closet full of only freshly pressed tailored clothes...

 

Oh wait.

 

Shit.

I need your AV!

[Johnny Sack 8397]

On 7/15/2022 at 5:54 PM, Bill Lumbergh said:

I know this isn't the recruiting thread but it deserves to be recognized here (and on aggypedia) as one of the most aggy things ever.

If you don't follow recruiting, a recruits "official visit" to a school is one of the most important parts of a recruitment.  aggy scheduled several high priority target official visits for the end of July.

The problem is, the NCAA forbids official visits in July.  This is not new, it has been the case since at least October of last year, and possibly longer.

Not only did the entire aggy recruiting staff miss that they were scheduling high priority target visits during a restricted period, they just figured that out...today.  They're now scrambling to adjust and predictably blaming everyone imaginable (NCAA, Saban, tu, etc) for some grand conspiracy to hurt their recruiting instead of acknowledging that their staff made a huge fucking oversight.

Never change, aggy.

[DalTxHornFan 3130]

12 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Pos rep for the Office Space reference and the fact that Lumbergh pos repped it first!

[Hagbard Celine 11157]

On 7/17/2022 at 2:04 PM, CowtownHorn said:

craftsmanship

[Hagbard Celine 11157]

On 7/17/2022 at 2:38 PM, closetojumping said:

Problem for both of us is that we got a lot of shit going on. I lay it on the ATM 2023 recruiting thread over the past few pages and was saying more or less all of it consistently since the start of this cycle. But you may not have that much time or interest to go through 4-5 pages. It's hard to do well repeating here, especially given the nature of this thread is different than that one, but I'll try. I figure given the fact that every page on this thread has at least 2 posts from Randolph Duke trending towards 5000 words, so the length on this post won't anger anyone.---

Suffice it to say, no, they're not out of money. The bigger problem is that their timing for the 2022 class was truly serendipitous on multiple levels. The 2022 class is the actual outlier, and they're going to pay a price above rubies for having it unfold the way it did.

In the 2022 class, these things happened:

1) ATM alums committed from the get-go in the winter of 2021/2022 to landing a massive haul, leveraging the 9-1 corona season and making a push towards the upper echelon. I was writing about this last Jan 2021 forward on that board, so the recruiting dorks here weren't really shocked by what unfolded, but even we were surprised at the magnitude of it all. A few of us have friends involved with covering things for Texas and nationally and one of my business partners is directly involved with driving what happened last cycle at ATM. Plus I have buddies at some other places, including inside the machine in Tuscaloosa. All of these cats knew that ATM was going to be a force in 2022's signed classes.

2) Complete upheaval around ATM geographically. Texas shits itself and goes 5-7. Riley pulls his bullshit. LSU dumps out and then hires a yankee. Florida spits the bit. Auburn falls apart. Bama and Georgia can't sign everybody. Penn State sucking wind also helped. 

3) NIL has become a bigger maelstrom, and done so faster, than anyone expected. That led to adjustments happening rather quickly for schools normally playing the bag game, who started recalibrating towards NIL. ATM ended up being a bigger player in the bag game in part due to dilapidating competition. 

4) Finally, for 2022 this wasn't part of the fortuitous nature of what happened for them, but it certainly is a big deal in all of this - ATM did what aggies always do and aggied the whole thing up. They went so over the top on the bags that they wound up only bidding against themselves on multiple recruitments - Dindy, Evan Stewart, the Miami Stewart, a couple of the guys from NJ/PA, and Walter Nolen, at least. 

So what now? Well, NIL money, interest, and competitiveness across the landscape is already dwarfing the dark market in size and scope. You are a program that has NIL going (Texas, Oregon, Ohio State, Miami), or you're showing proof of concept that you can do it (UGA, Michigan, ND), or you can do it in limited ways and will be hyperfocused with it (SEC powers who don't have massive jack beyond what they were doing in the bag game), or you're making shit up and hoping to figure it out by the time what you've sold needs to be delivered (USC, Kansas, this is also what Switzer and OU have done - they're hoping to fully fund FB, women's gymnastics (I think) and women's softball - the sports in which they're already market leaders. you may know more there, but this is the word in that the concept is fine, but it's not funded yet and he announced it as though it were.), and then you've got ATM, who is still trying to play the bag game and poo-poo the NIL world to recruits. That tactic worked a little last cycle, and it is failing this cycle. Every recruit, and I mean every one of them, that teams talk to now are asking within the first 10 minutes of dialogue about how the school's NIL looks and can work for them. 

Well, ATM doesn't have an answer for that yet. They were also not really worried about it. Now the realization is setting in that the bags above the table can get pretty big, and if you don't have additional corporate density on top of rabid alumni support, you might as well light the cigarette now, because you're already fucked if you don't have a rich tradition of winning titles or Phil Knight. 

Next, with their behaviors in the 2022 cycle, then mocking everyone with overt lies in the press, then attacking the fucking GOAT, and constantly at every turn shitting on Texas and the rest of the Big 12, they pissed everyone off. Every school recruiting right now is going out of their way to vomit on ATM to recruits. It's hostile. 

After that, they replaced quality with garbage in key coaching roles. Durkin for Elko is a massive net negative from a player/recruit relations perspective. Elko was a fucking animal in recruiting. Trading out Henson and getting Addazzio instead is a hilarious downgrade in every aspect. There are recruits out there telling stories about what an asshole Addazzio has been to them in dialogue, already. Whoops. Losing Schmidt to OU was also a big deal according to some. I don't know how seriously to take that tidbit. 

Finally, they went 8-4 with the bowl forfeit last season. Their results are starting to just look like typical aggie results. They have the stench of eternal mediocrity attached to them and other programs are beating the shit out of them with that. Plenty of schools do that to Texas too, but with schools like Arkansas, Baylor, and ATM, the Texas rebuttal of "they're Baylor/Arkansas/ATM. they're mediocre forever. we're Texas and we will be back." Doesn't work as well against OU, Bama, and a few others of course. 

ATM will eventually drop a giant bag on a few players and finish with a top 20 class. Anything better than that will surprise me, and I've been saying they were in for rougher waters since this past winter when people starting really grinding about what they'd done. I'm still surprised it is this ugly with them. And yes, irrespective of other sentiments on this page, there's been further blowback for getting the OV shit wrong with some of the guests invited at the end of the month. 

rep paid, but i like vertigo's bitcoin story better

if aggy ends up in the teens or 20s then you get a cookie

they should have had AT LEAST 3 high-star commits despite all of the factors you list

does everything you wrote still account for the blank looch44 ??

https://texags.com/football-recruiting/liucci-44

Pool is in less than 2 weeks