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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18,968

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1 minute ago, DFW Horn said:

Really? Are college basketball officials selected from a regional/national pool?

Do you officiate CBB games?

@Panchodoes and has explained it before.  

Here is an interesting article:

https://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2012/02/have_whistle_will_travel_are_c.html#:~:text=The officials work as independent,the course of a season.

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DFW Horn

DFW Horn 6,117

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1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

@Panchodoes and has explained it before.  

Here is an interesting article:

https://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2012/02/have_whistle_will_travel_are_c.html#:~:text=The officials work as independent,the course of a season.

Wow, $1,500 per game for the Metro Atlantic, but only $3,000 for major college games?

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18,968

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1 minute ago, DFW Horn said:

Wow, $1,500 per game for the Metro Atlantic, but only $3,000 for major college games?

The biggest thing to me is paying all your own expenses.  These guys are getting around taking a bunch of flights all the time- I would have to think transportation, lodging, food would cost $1,000 a night often times.  Especially when you consider that you aren't getting your schedule weeks ahead of time where you get all the best deals on flights and the like- you are probably planning 7 days in advance most of the time I'd guess?  And, you have very specific flights you need to be on.  And I imagine they don't stay in the Motel 6.  

I'd think the MAC games get refed by big time guys pretty often because they are in major cities and can be off the normal schedule- meaning- hey I'm in Philly anyway for Nova on Saturday, might as well ref this MAC game.  

I mean- if you are reffing 60 games a year sounds like you are probably grossing $150,000 or so and my guess is spending 50 or 60 in expenses.  No health insurance.  No 401K match.  Lots of frequent flier bitch miles and courtyard by Marriot points I guess.  I wonder if they work other jobs or if they just say- hey Fam, I'm gone from October 15-March- don't expect to see me unless I end up in the city reffing a game for the night, but we will have lots of time to be together from April 1- October 15?  Or are they all just single dudes without families banging sluts at various different hotel bars around the country and living the dream?  

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Pancho

Pancho 44,437

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1 hour ago, DFW Horn said:

Wow, $1,500 per game for the Metro Atlantic, but only $3,000 for major college games?

Those prices are out of date. They get paid more in the P5 conferences. And basketball refs aren’t even regional. You can live and work anywhere. Keith Kimball lives in Texas but works in every P5 league in the country. He could be at UCLA one night and then at Texas the next and then leave Texas to ref at Syracuse the next day.

 

55 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

The biggest thing to me is paying all your own expenses.  These guys are getting around taking a bunch of flights all the time- I would have to think transportation, lodging, food would cost $1,000 a night often times.  Especially when you consider that you aren't getting your schedule weeks ahead of time where you get all the best deals on flights and the like- you are probably planning 7 days in advance most of the time I'd guess?  And, you have very specific flights you need to be on.  And I imagine they don't stay in the Motel 6.  

I'd think the MAC games get refed by big time guys pretty often because they are in major cities and can be off the normal schedule- meaning- hey I'm in Philly anyway for Nova on Saturday, might as well ref this MAC game.  

I mean- if you are reffing 60 games a year sounds like you are probably grossing $150,000 or so and my guess is spending 50 or 60 in expenses.  No health insurance.  No 401K match.  Lots of frequent flier bitch miles and courtyard by Marriot points I guess.  I wonder if they work other jobs or if they just say- hey Fam, I'm gone from October 15-March- don't expect to see me unless I end up in the city reffing a game for the night, but we will have lots of time to be together from April 1- October 15?  Or are they all just single dudes without families banging sluts at various different hotel bars around the country and living the dream?  

They used to get a per diem but conferences stopped that because the paperwork was too much. Instead, they upped the $$$ each ref gets for games. The money depends on the conference, of course.  Basketball officials get their schedule in October for the entire year. Occasionally, some conference coordinators will split it up meaning October gets you your schedule thru December and then sometime in early December, you get your January-March schedule. 

If a big time ref is in a MAC, Sun Belt, Big South, or any other non p5 league, it’s most likely because that game is on the way to another P5 game so they can stop and do that. The other reason they’d do those games is because 1.) those leagues rarely get to see the “tv refs” so it’s a big deal and 2.) they just add it to the $$$ pile. 

A ref like Keith Kimball (who lives in Waco, actually), John Higgins, Ron Grover, Doug Sirmons, Doug Shows, Pat Adams—those refs make around  $175,000-200,000+ a year because the ref 70-80 (some have worked even 90 to 100 before) game schedules. What’s really weird is the NCAA tournament pays shit so you really want those games just for the prestige. 

And you’re correct, there’s no retirement package, no health package, no insurance, so you have to get all of that outside of basketball on your own. The top 1% of refs only ref as that’s their career. The other 99% have real jobs. Something I noticed (when I was on the men’s side) was the amount of refs who sold insurance. It seemed like if you wanted to be a big time ref, that was your go-to job because you could get away easily (I guess). 

I’d wager to guess just around 50% of refs are married. The others are divorced because of the ref life style. I’ve had friends who had great families (wives and kids) throw it all away just to try to be a big time basketball referee. It was sad. During the summer, these refs have to work the summer camps, which is how refs get hired by the selected conference coordinators. I’ve known of many of these married dudes who fucked around with sloots while on their roadtrips for games or while working the camps in the summer. (Happens with the NBA guys too)

 

 

 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18,968

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15 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Those prices are out of date. They get paid more in the P5 conferences. And basketball refs aren’t even regional. You can live and work anywhere. Keith Kimball lives in Texas but works in every P5 league in the country. He could be at UCLA one night and then at Texas the next and then leave Texas to ref at Syracuse the next day.

 

They used to get a per diem but conferences stopped that because the paperwork was too much. Instead, they upped the $$$ each ref gets for games. The money depends on the conference, of course.  Basketball officials get their schedule in October for the entire year. Occasionally, some conference coordinators will split it up meaning October gets you your schedule thru December and then sometime in early December, you get your January-March schedule. 

If a big time ref is in a MAC, Sun Belt, Big South, or any other non p5 league, it’s most likely because that game is on the way to another P5 game so they can stop and do that. The other reason they’d do those games is because 1.) those leagues rarely get to see the “tv refs” so it’s a big deal and 2.) they just add it to the $$$ pile. 

A ref like Keith Kimball (who lives in Waco, actually), John Higgins, Ron Grover, Doug Sirmons, Doug Shows, Pat Adams—those refs make around  $175,000-200,000+ a year because the ref 70-80 (some have worked even 90 to 100 before) game schedules. What’s really weird is the NCAA tournament pays shit so you really want those games just for the prestige. 

And you’re correct, there’s no retirement package, no health package, no insurance, so you have to get all of that outside of basketball on your own. The top 1% of refs only ref as that’s their career. The other 99% have real jobs. Something I noticed (when I was on the men’s side) was the amount of refs who sold insurance. It seemed like if you wanted to be a big time ref, that was your go-to job because you could get away easily (I guess). 

I’d wager to guess just around 50% of refs are married. The others are divorced because of the ref life style. I’ve had friends who had great families (wives and kids) throw it all away just to try to be a big time basketball referee. It was sad. During the summer, these refs have to work the summer camps, which is how refs get hired by the selected conference coordinators. I’ve known of many of these married dudes who fucked around with sloots while on their roadtrips for games or while working the camps in the summer. (Happens with the NBA guys too)

 

 

 

I didn't look at the date on that article and it was 10 years old- so yeah- the money on inflation takes it from where I had it to where you have it right now I would say, but other than that I guess I more or less nailed how it works/what it looks like with the exception of having your schedule at the beginning of the year. I'm quite frankly shocked that this is the case. I would think that between injuries, illness, form, weather, travel, surprise teams being good and TV schedules being manipulated that you just wouldn't be able to schedule it that far out in advance and that the schedule would be a total and complete mess of having to get re-done and re-set all the time.  That's good for the refs how that is set up I suppose.  

How many total refs out there?  How many guys ref just locally (like 200 mile radius) ref shit teams and shit leagues 3 times a week as a side hustle where you can pick up 50k working half the year and sleep in their own bed at night after the game, but not dedicated to being full time or about that nomad life?

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Pancho

Pancho 44,437

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9 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I didn't look at the date on that article and it was 10 years old- so yeah- the money on inflation takes it from where I had it to where you have it right now I would say, but other than that I guess I more or less nailed how it works/what it looks like with the exception of having your schedule at the beginning of the year. I'm quite frankly shocked that this is the case. I would think that between injuries, illness, form, weather, travel, surprise teams being good and TV schedules being manipulated that you just wouldn't be able to schedule it that far out in advance and that the schedule would be a total and complete mess of having to get re-done and re-set all the time.  That's good for the refs how that is set up I suppose.  

How many total refs out there?  How many guys ref just locally (like 200 mile radius) ref shit teams and shit leagues 3 times a week as a side hustle where you can pick up 50k working half the year and sleep in their own bed at night after the game, but not dedicated to being full time or about that nomad life?

Well, the rumor has always been the big time refs get to “select” their games, and they do it by tv schedule, who is going to be ranked high, rivalries, etc. If you’re really close with the coordinator, you can do stuff like that. Coordinators always have fill-ins meaning you can get hired by a coordinator and not get any games or only get an exhibition and one of the pay games (think aggy-commerce @ Texas this year). But if that’s all you get as your schedule, you always have to be ready because you could get a call at any time. Sometimes, that’s how you get your big break. It’s also why if you live near a university, it increases your chances of getting hired. Also, let’s say you work for Curtis Shaw, who is the coordinator for the Big 12 but he hires you to only work CUSA or MVC games. That’s all you’re going to work. You have to keep going camp to improve (arbitrary) to get into his B12 league; however, if he’s in a bind and needs someone quickly and you’re close to a B12 school, he can call you and say “Wulaw, I need you at Texas tomorrow night” and he will take you out of your game if it’s a lower game from his league. If it’s any other coordinator you work for, you’re shit outta luck unless Curtis calls them and says he really needs you. And even then, that doesn’t guarantee you’ll get a Big 12 schedule next year. Last year, I had plans for a Saturday because I didn’t have a game. Welp, got a call at 9pm Friday night (while at a bar) “Pancho, I need you at UTSA for an 11am tip tomorrow.” That was fun.

 

Total refs? That’s a big question. D1 probably 300-400.  And there aren’t refs who say “just put me local because I don’t want to travel far.” You’d be fired. You go where they schedule you to go. You only get away with the keep me local stuff in high school. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18,968

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49 minutes ago, jw4381 said:

Basketball ref talk not going away on the football board. 

Its the aggy thread of point and laugh, not football, regardless of it being on the football board.  It's topical b/c they are claiming a conference conspiracy in ref games against them when there is no such thing as SEC refs.  Topical. 

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Pancho

Pancho 44,437

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51 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

@Pancho how does the football ref world compare?  Seems like way fewer opportunities.  Is the pay proportionately higher?

Nope, pay is higher but only by a few hundred dollars. Football refs make considerably lower in total because there are less games. A basketball ref can rake in $100,000 per year on the low end. Big12 and SEC refs aren’t making that in a season.

 

And football refs do stick to one P5 but usually the coordinator for that P5 also has 1-2 G5 leagues.  So you can ref the Texas/Oklahoma State game one Saturday and then be in the Utah State/Air Force game the next Saturday since Greg Burkes is coordinator for both.

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markstanco

markstanco 12,501

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He isn’t wrong. Losing all those players and then winning 8 or more games will shock the world.
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ousux

ousux 5,586

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MSN, the same beacon of media light within hard hitting journalism that posted a long article about "Sark must be fired" after being caught verbally abusing an Alamo bowl worker. Could be the same writer? Nawh..coincidence I'm sure
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ButtFumble

ButtFumble 5,158

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57 minutes ago, Armybrat said:
If LSU is overpaying Brian Kelly to win SEC west, I'm not even sure there is a word that describes what are we doing with Jimbo

 

they are waiting for "next year" when jimbo finally has all of his own 'cruits and has his system in place and the proper coordinators to implement it

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Cairn Horn88

Cairn Horn88 8,162

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Today in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram:

Business leaders and politicians have no shortage of superlatives when describing the future Texas A&M-Fort Worth campus on the south end of downtown.

Developer John Goff calls the project “the most significant thing for the city in the last 100 years.” Fort Worth Mayor Mattie Parker predicts it is “an opportunity that will pay dividends for generations.”

To a casual observer, looking at the site’s current parking lots and plain concrete law school, those assessments might seem like exaggerations.

But with construction starting this summer on the first of three planned buildings, experts say the new campus will indeed be transformative, well beyond just educating college students. 

What was once Hell’s Half Acre, wild west red-light district in the late 1800s, will become a shiny new jewel in downtown’s crown and an economic engine for the entire city — attracting major high-tech industries, creating new and higher-paying jobs, and elevating Fort Worth’s ability to compete on a national level.
 

aggy building the new “Austin”…..in Ft Worth?

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Doc Daneeka

Doc Daneeka 6,769

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1 minute ago, Cairn Horn88 said:

Today in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram:

Business leaders and politicians have no shortage of superlatives when describing the future Texas A&M-Fort Worth campus on the south end of downtown.

Developer John Goff calls the project “the most significant thing for the city in the last 100 years.” Fort Worth Mayor Mattie Parker predicts it is “an opportunity that will pay dividends for generations.”

To a casual observer, looking at the site’s current parking lots and plain concrete law school, those assessments might seem like exaggerations.

But with construction starting this summer on the first of three planned buildings, experts say the new campus will indeed be transformative, well beyond just educating college students. 

What was once Hell’s Half Acre, wild west red-light district in the late 1800s, will become a shiny new jewel in downtown’s crown and an economic engine for the entire city — attracting major high-tech industries, creating new and higher-paying jobs, and elevating Fort Worth’s ability to compete on a national level.
 

aggy building the new “Austin”…..in Ft Worth?

That seems delusional even for the Star-Telegram. 

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South Austin

South Austin 52,105

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24 minutes ago, Cairn Horn88 said:

Today in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram:

Business leaders and politicians have no shortage of superlatives when describing the future Texas A&M-Fort Worth campus on the south end of downtown.

Developer John Goff calls the project “the most significant thing for the city in the last 100 years.” Fort Worth Mayor Mattie Parker predicts it is “an opportunity that will pay dividends for generations.”

To a casual observer, looking at the site’s current parking lots and plain concrete law school, those assessments might seem like exaggerations.

But with construction starting this summer on the first of three planned buildings, experts say the new campus will indeed be transformative, well beyond just educating college students. 

What was once Hell’s Half Acre, wild west red-light district in the late 1800s, will become a shiny new jewel in downtown’s crown and an economic engine for the entire city — attracting major high-tech industries, creating new and higher-paying jobs, and elevating Fort Worth’s ability to compete on a national level.
 

aggy building the new “Austin”…..in Ft Worth?

I guess the paper is looking for something positive to write about after the ass-pounding by Georgia.

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StrippersAndNobelPrizes

StrippersAndNobelPrizes 831

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“Developer John Goff calls the project “the most significant thing for the city in the last 100 years.” Fort Worth Mayor Mattie Parker predicts it is “an opportunity that will pay dividends for generations.”

The National Cowgirl Museum begs to differ (double entendre NOT a coincidence) 😉

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NoName

NoName 16,286

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1 hour ago, Cairn Horn88 said:

Developer John Goff calls the project “the most significant thing for the city in the last 100 years.” Fort Worth Mayor Mattie Parker predicts it is “an opportunity that will pay dividends for generations.”

as a reminder this is a 3 building project with the 3rd of 3 not yet breaking ground until some TBD time in the future.

...fucking John Goff should know better. if a 3 building college development is "the most significant thing for the city in the last 100 years" then Ft Worth really may be the worst place in the universe.

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John C. Goff is a graduate of The University of Texas at Austin, where he continues to pledge his support to McCombs School of Business through the John C. Goff Endowed Excellence Fund. John was inducted into McCombs Business School Hall of Fame in 2014 and is a member of The Longhorn Foundation, serves on The University Development Board, as well as McCombs School of Business Advisory Council. John was named an EY Entrepreneur of the Year for the Southwest Region in real estate and construction in 2014. He is a Legend in the North Texas Real Estate, Dallas Business and the Fort Worth Business Halls of Fame, and a 2020 Inductee to the Texas Business Hall of Fame. 

no wonder Goff called it a big deal, he was INVOLVED with the deal:

Quote

The idea to expand into Fort Worth began nearly two years ago when Fort Worth billionaire John Goff and former Mayor Betsy Price invited the Texas A&M system to expand its reach into the city and stimulate business growth downtown

keep in mind that for like 5 years in the early 00's Ft Worth was the fastest growing city in the united states and is still the third fastest growing city in the country. but sure this is one of the biggest things that has happened there lol

 

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