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Report: Samsung picks Taylor, Texas for 17 billion dollar chip plant

Hornius Emeritus

By Hornius Emeritus
in Business and Markets

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Hefeweizen

Hefeweizen 5310

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

It’ll be interesting to see how well they recruit to what most would consider a distant exburb with zero amenities for the hiring pool they’re after. Cheap ass tract housing on a treeless prairie only goes so far.

The executives can live in Georgetown or Austin and the poors in manor or Elgin.  Same as it ever was.

I think my ship may finally have come in to sell and move out of Austin.  It’s been a good thirty year run.

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Armybrat

Armybrat 40824

Posted
Posted
On 11/22/2021 at 9:43 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

This might affect my house value some, but I told my mother to buy in hutto 6 months ago and she said no. 

My youngest kid (49) bought a foreclosure 1,880 sq/ft tract house in Hutto Parke 10 years ago for $90k. 
It is now appraised at $310k.

Crazy. 50 years ago you could have bought the whole town for that.

 

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CHIEF

CHIEF 5078

Posted
Posted

Mrs. CHIEF's modular company is one of the three finalists for building the office space. She is on her second night of designing the proposals, she does 100% of them for the whole company, that is her jam. I will be in bed long before she is.

CHIEF

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  • 2 years later...
freyguy

freyguy 4265

Posted
Posted

I'm not gonna poo poo Samsung, they know how to make money.  But it'll be interesting to see if they can really fill that fab or not.  And whether they'll move their cutting edge lithography development there or not.

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  • 5 months later...
royiv

royiv 9268

Posted
Posted

I’ve seen a couple of articles about this come across my feed today. I would be interested in hearing thoughts from the tech guys as to this non-tech guy, it sounds like Samsung is struggling mightily with the chips that the Taylor fab is intended to make. 
 

Is this bad?

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Captainant

Captainant 27638

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, royiv said:

I’ve seen a couple of articles about this come across my feed today. I would be interested in hearing thoughts from the tech guys as to this non-tech guy, it sounds like Samsung is struggling mightily with the chips that the Taylor fab is intended to make. 
 

Is this bad?

2nm is cutting edge process stuff, so that plus opening a new fab it's not super surprising they're having difficulty. 10-20% yield rates are pretty horrible though. That's a HUGE number of defects in their process to find and remediate 

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royiv

royiv 9268

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Captainant said:

2nm is cutting edge process stuff, so that plus opening a new fab it's not super surprising they're having difficulty. 10-20% yield rates are pretty horrible though. That's a HUGE number of defects in their process to find and remediate 

Yeah, that didn’t seem good to this guy who admittedly knows very little about chip manufacturing. What will this mean for the fab in Taylor? Just a delay in getting it up and running or will Samsung’s issues cause customers to move business to TSMC or others?

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hornbri

hornbri 1396

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, royiv said:

I’ve seen a couple of articles about this come across my feed today. I would be interested in hearing thoughts from the tech guys as to this non-tech guy, it sounds like Samsung is struggling mightily with the chips that the Taylor fab is intended to make. 
 

Is this bad?

It is really bad, their yields are horribad right now.

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immamac

immamac 42838

Posted
Posted

That yield number is dogshit and makes chips way too expensive to manufacture. Either the customer pays to subsidize an immature node through maturation or Samsung eats the cost of trying to deliver volume. Neither is viable when you can just wait for it to not suck. This wasn't a get rich quick fab. It will be a major source of domestic silicon production for the next decade+ 

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Captainant

Captainant 27638

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, immamac said:

That yield number is dogshit and makes chips way too expensive to manufacture. Either the customer pays to subsidize an immature node through maturation or Samsung eats the cost of trying to deliver volume. Neither is viable when you can just wait for it to not suck. This wasn't a get rich quick fab. It will be a major source of domestic silicon production for the next decade+ 

But what about our quarterly numbers???? Given our over reliance on short term measurements and KPIs, the market and investment class is going to PUNISH any spending or attempt at R&D or improvements if they don't show immediate and certain results

Edited by Captainant
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immamac

immamac 42838

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Captainant said:

But what about our quarterly numbers???? Given our over reliance on short term measurements and KPIs, the market and investment class is going to PUNISH any spending or attempt at R&D or improvements if they don't show immediate and certain results

Samsung is privately held with a public listing. Not an issue for them which is why they aren't fucked up and are dominating. 

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royiv

royiv 9268

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, immamac said:

That yield number is dogshit and makes chips way too expensive to manufacture. Either the customer pays to subsidize an immature node through maturation or Samsung eats the cost of trying to deliver volume. Neither is viable when you can just wait for it to not suck. This wasn't a get rich quick fab. It will be a major source of domestic silicon production for the next decade+ 

I’ve also read a couple of articles that TSMC is struggling with workforce and cultural issues out in AZ impacting their production timelines. With the big push to onshore production, what’s the realistic timeline to get production at these fabs up and running?

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immamac

immamac 42838

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, royiv said:

I’ve also read a couple of articles that TSMC is struggling with workforce and cultural issues out in AZ impacting their production timelines. With the big push to onshore production, what’s the realistic timeline to get production at these fabs up and running?

they are all 2026+ realistically online and going by 2028 or the end of the decade. 

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Captainant

Captainant 27638

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, royiv said:

I’ve also read a couple of articles that TSMC is struggling with workforce and cultural issues out in AZ impacting their production timelines. With the big push to onshore production, what’s the realistic timeline to get production at these fabs up and running?

Was it along the lines of what was shown in that American manufacturing doc a few years ago? Where the Chinese/Taiwanese work culture is just so completely different from American that entire workflows or management strategies are invalid

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royiv

royiv 9268

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Was it along the lines of what was shown in that American manufacturing doc a few years ago? Where the Chinese/Taiwanese work culture is just so completely different from American that entire workflows or management strategies are invalid

Yep. Basically the Taiwanese way is 12 hour shifts and being on-call 24 hours a day so if, for example, a piece of equipment goes down in the middle of the night an engineer is expected to go in and have it fixed within an hour instead of waiting until the morning. In addition, a lot of language barriers when they’ve sent Americans to train in Taiwan where they won’t speak English in meetings and all of the PowerPoints and such are in Mandarin. Add to it, public shaming by managers not being an effective management strategy in the US. 

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52-80

52-80 19147

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, immamac said:

Samsung is privately held with a public listing. Not an issue for them which is why they aren't fucked up and are dominating. 

Samsung's different subsidiaries are listed as separate entities. The one doing semiconductor manufacturing, Samsung Electronics, are de jure owned both in financial terms (common stock) and in controlling terms (preferred stock) by parties external to the super Chaebol.  Majority of owners are outside of the country altogether.

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immamac

immamac 42838

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Samsung's different subsidiaries are listed as separate entities. The one doing semiconductor manufacturing, Samsung Electronics, are de jure owned both in financial terms (common stock) and in controlling terms (preferred stock) by parties external to the super Chaebol.  Majority of owners are outside of the country altogether.

I said what I said.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13509

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, royiv said:

Yep. Basically the Taiwanese way is 12 hour shifts and being on-call 24 hours a day so if, for example, a piece of equipment goes down in the middle of the night an engineer is expected to go in and have it fixed within an hour instead of waiting until the morning. In addition, a lot of language barriers when they’ve sent Americans to train in Taiwan where they won’t speak English in meetings and all of the PowerPoints and such are in Mandarin. Add to it, public shaming by managers not being an effective management strategy in the US. 

 

15 hours ago, Parliament said:

Also the fact that Americans are lazy and stupid.

Bring in Michael Keaton to rally the troops in meeting the monthly quota numbers.

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52-80

52-80 19147

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, immamac said:

I said what I said.

I say quarterly numbers are an issue for Samsung Electronics, because the economic interests of those numbers belong to outside parties, as do the controlling interest. If those parties don't like the numbers, they can pressure and enforce a change in company decisions.

This is unlike something such as Samsung Constructions, where the major institutional and enterprise ownership are de facto aligned with the major individual holders... who are basically the descendants of the Samsung founder.

 

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immamac

immamac 42838

Posted
Posted
Just now, 52-80 said:

I say quarterly numbers are an issue for Samsung Electronics, because the economic interests of those numbers belong to outside parties, as do the controlling interest. If those parties don't like the numbers, they can pressure and enforce a change in company decisions.

This is unlike something such as Samsung Constructions, where the major institutional and enterprise ownership are de facto aligned with the major individual holders... who are basically the descendants of the Samsung founder.

 

They can't, but continue on your hilarious little fantasy. 

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Captainant

Captainant 27638

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Hefeweizen said:

They built a massive water line just for this fab, it’s being put in right now by Taylor.  36 inch diameter which is enough for a medium size town (probably 30000 people).  So they aren’t fucking around with their investment.

Chip fabs use an astounding amount of water, and produce a dizzying amount of extremely toxic waste throughout all of the acid washes and photo resist layers. It takes a massive investment to build the front end and back end treatment so the municipal water is pure enough to use in process, and then clean of toxic chemicals enough to discharge or reuse

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gsoda3

gsoda3 3248

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, immamac said:

Samsung is privately held with a public listing. Not an issue for them which is why they aren't fucked up and are dominating. 

that makes absolutely no sense.  if you're private you're private. if you're public you're public. 

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gsoda3

gsoda3 3248

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, immamac said:

How much work have you done with Samsung at the planning and corporate level in Korea? 

you've been there so you've magically absorbed all knowledge of their ownership structure yet somehow missed the basic fact that private and public ownership are mutually exclusive.  brilliant.  

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royiv

royiv 9268

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Chip fabs use an astounding amount of water, and produce a dizzying amount of extremely toxic waste throughout all of the acid washes and photo resist layers. It takes a massive investment to build the front end and back end treatment so the municipal water is pure enough to use in process, and then clean of toxic chemicals enough to discharge or reuse

Is it possible for chip fabs to treat their wastewater and reuse it in the manufacturing process? It just seems ridiculous to put these plants in places like Central Texas or Phoenix that already have water access problems that are only going to get worse.

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Captainant

Captainant 27638

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, royiv said:

Is it possible for chip fabs to treat their wastewater and reuse it in the manufacturing process? It just seems ridiculous to put these plants in places like Central Texas or Phoenix that already have water access problems that are only going to get worse.

Yes, fabs have massive water treatment capacities built in. They still consume a titanic amount of water through cooling and the water purification process as they distill their own 99.999999999999999999% pure water for their fab process.

 

And yeah, the water access problems are only going to get worse. You are correct

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Hefeweizen

Hefeweizen 5310

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, royiv said:

Is it possible for chip fabs to treat their wastewater and reuse it in the manufacturing process? It just seems ridiculous to put these plants in places like Central Texas or Phoenix that already have water access problems that are only going to get worse.

FYI for many years (not sure if still true) Samsung off Parmer was the COAs biggest water and sewer user.

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