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California Getting a Jump on Black Friday Shopping

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By Harrison Bergeron
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Harrison Bergeron

Harrison Bergeron 1798

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https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/11/24/smash-and-grab-robbery-looting-louis-vuitton-san-francisco-union-square/
 

https://deadline.com/2021/11/thieves-looters-mass-robbery-the-grove-nordstrom-los-angeles-1234879561/


https://www.foxbusiness.com/retail/3-suspects-california-nordstrom-looting-arrested

 

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Foosters
Foosters

You really should stop regurgitating what you see in the right-wing info-sphere. Cash bail is still very much alive in CA. Next time you're in CA, feel free to swing by any public courthouse and watch

bolverk
bolverk

Here's a nice, timely read from today's paper given the emergence of this stupid thread. A Handy Guide to the Republican Definition of a Crime If you think Republicans are still member

elfenix
elfenix

to get back to the important shit: pizza hut in hempstead went retro and it's spectacular:               https://www.houstonc

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MonkeyCigarette

MonkeyCigarette 143

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In Best Buy’s earnings call yesterday, CEO Corie Barry blamed stagnant sales in part on an uptick in theft, pointing to California as a particularly sticky-fingered state.

Retailers in CA have experienced a string of “smash-and-grabs.” Last month, Walgreens announced plans to shut down five stores in San Francisco, claiming that rates of theft in the city had risen to 5x the national average.

Rates of unemployment and homelessness rose sharply last year, and California is home to the largest population of unsheltered persons.

Some argue that Proposition 47, which raised the felony threshold for stolen goods, has increased rates of theft, but its impact is debated.

 

This was a “small nuisance” trending into a bigger problem this year; it looks like people have figured out how to operationalize and scale this to luxury store shrink.

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Knoxtnhorn

Knoxtnhorn 5928

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Friend of mine is there.  Came back from lunch and his windows were smashed, luggage gone.  Police said they're averaging 300-400 of these a week.  It's so bad, there's a glass shortage in the area.  

F that place and those that enable this stuff.

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Cajun

Cajun 11675

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Twin Liquors Lincoln Heights here in San Antonio about an hour ago.  Don’t know the story, but there were cops everywhere.  Looked very smash and grabby.  Notice the chunk of column taken out by what I suppose was the vehicle that also took out the front of the store and almost the entire register counter…

DC85B58A-98AB-4A5F-98B3-1A3563B01903.jpeg

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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If there is no expectation of repercussions from acts of crime or violence, the acts of crime, and violence will increase.

We are in a really bizarre era.  Cops suck so let’s get rid of them, and now crime is on the uptick. No correlation there at all.

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22023

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6 minutes ago, Cajun said:

Twin Liquors Lincoln Heights here in San Antonio about an hour ago.  Don’t know the story, but there were cops everywhere.  Looked very smash and grabby.  Notice the chunk of column taken out by what I suppose was the vehicle that also took out the front of the store and almost the entire register counter…

DC85B58A-98AB-4A5F-98B3-1A3563B01903.jpeg

I see stuff I wouldn't have left...but hey. Lots of stuff I want to say as a former retail worker at various jobs (I always think of Wayne's World when Wayne talks about his many name tags and hairnets) but my remarks and observations at these various jobs would just be cannon fodder. I can say whether you grew up with a certain amount of privilege or not...a POS is a POS. Poverty is not what is happening here. Good luck trying to convince a lot of hard working people on this weekend (went to see my aunt at the Alzheimer's home) that "privilege is a real reason." People work at homes taking care of people who cannot take care of themselves. There are plenty of people who can and do not. Take up for them all you want. They would be just as big of a POS with privilege. 

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HornOnTheBayou

HornOnTheBayou 8877

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17 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

I see stuff I wouldn't have left...but hey. Lots of stuff I want to say as a former retail worker at various jobs (I always think of Wayne's World when Wayne talks about his many name tags and hairnets) but my remarks and observations at these various jobs would just be cannon fodder. I can say whether you grew up with a certain amount of privilege or not...a POS is a POS. Poverty is not what is happening here. Good luck trying to convince a lot of hard working people on this weekend (went to see my aunt at the Alzheimer's home) that "privilege is a real reason." People work at homes taking care of people who cannot take care of themselves. There are plenty of people who can and do not. Take up for them all you want. They would be just as big of a POS with privilege. 

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52-80

52-80 19066

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7 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

If there is no expectation of repercussions  from acts of crime or violence, the acts of crime, and violence will increase.

We are in a really bizarre era.  Cops suck so let’s get rid of them, and now crime is on the uptick. No correlation there at all.

Where theres more criminals, theres more cops. Where theres more of both, statistical law says more criminal-cop incidences occur. Crazy how that works. 

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Cajun

Cajun 11675

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16 hours ago, Cajun said:

Twin Liquors Lincoln Heights here in San Antonio about an hour ago.  Don’t know the story, but there were cops everywhere.  Looked very smash and grabby.  Notice the chunk of column taken out by what I suppose was the vehicle that also took out the front of the store and almost the entire register counter…

DC85B58A-98AB-4A5F-98B3-1A3563B01903.jpeg

On my trip to HEB this morning I asked the shopping cart getter guy what happened & he said he heard it was someone accidentally driving their car into the store.  It’s a hundred yards off of Broadway, so I just can’t picture how it happened that way.

Unless, it was an old.  There are several continuing care facilities around that let the blue hairs keep their keys.

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mchookem

mchookem 16094

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19 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

If there is no expectation of repercussions  from acts of crime or violence, the acts of crime, and violence will increase.

We are in a really bizarre era.  Cops suck so let’s get rid of them, and now crime is on the uptick. No correlation there at all.

we had some packages stolen off our porch yesterday, middle of the day, and we were home...it just happened so fast! i think they were following the delivery truck...

anyways, husband called police and i rolled my eyes bc i also thought 'yeah, right'...but i was SHOCKED...not only did two APD officers show up within 30 minutes, after taking the report they went to all of our neighbors to see which ones had ring cameras and actually reviewed footage. all total they probably spent at least an hour around here.

i was pretty surprised tbh.

but... did anybody see APD featured on 60 Minutes last week?? apparently Austin is the first city in the country to try this new policing method (including mental health options), and they also talked in depth about how the cadet training has been completely overhauled. good stuff overall. so maybe APD has turned a corner.

ETA: it also reinforced the vote down of Prop A, both the 60 Minutes feature and the interaction we had yesterday. it really was clearly an unnecessary money grab.

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22023

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27 minutes ago, Royalfan5 said:

The employees would probably rather deal with the smash and grabs rather than the usual assholes that patronize those places 

It beats dealing with “returns” (shit people stole from another store.) having worked at a few stores,  nothing will piss off a “customer” more than realizing they won’t get cash back. Just store credit. Unless they are stealing groceries or essentials most of theses shitasses can eat a bowl of fuck with cherries on top. We were told as employees to let them take whatever and not confront them. Safety issues for employees and we wouldn’t want to seem insensitive towards certain types of people bc it would be inappropriate. At one store I was at in Austin we had a very expensive purse that was connected to all these locks/bicycle like chains. Store opened at 9:00. Bag was gone by 9:15. Guy and his “pregnant “ partner brought in bolt cutters. It was an inside job obviously bc the co-worker was fired the next day. 

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13049

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On 11/25/2021 at 7:15 AM, Hefeweizen said:

Organized crime is what this is.  Prosecute it as such.  People usually should not die for property crime but it needs to be hammered. 

It does seem much more organized than even the traveler groups that patrolled the interstate when I was working retail in college. Those groups were slick and fast and came in waves. They loved the SBOs because less security.

This speaks of something much bigger and hierarchical than a simple smash and grab.

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Foosters

Foosters 17691

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14 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

It's perfect #clownworld.

- Idiots enact measures that encourage crime

- Crime increases

- Businesses leave

- Idiots blame ...

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So crime is only increasing in areas that have enacted progressive criminal justice reform, right?

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52-80

52-80 19066

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1 hour ago, Foosters said:

So crime is only increasing in areas that have enacted progressive criminal justice reform, right?

No, but only areas with 'progressive' criminal justice reform blame the crime on everything else but the criminal.

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Foosters

Foosters 17691

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2 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I guess if the people are okay with the crime.

 

 

 

 

I have no idea what you're trying to say or how it has anything to do with my response to a post alleging crime rates are increasing due to changes in the law.

But hey look over here! Look what a Hollywood lib said!

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2033

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9 minutes ago, Foosters said:

I have no idea what you're trying to say or how it has anything to do with my response to a post alleging crime rates are increasing due to changes in the law.

But hey look over here! Look what a Hollywood lib said!

I mean if the people are okay with the crime, they just expect stuff to be stolen why do anything about it? Also yes, look at the idiot.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31184

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2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

No, but only areas with 'progressive' criminal justice reform blame the crime on everything else but the criminal.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3952764

Abstract

Many communities across the United States have elected reform-minded, progressive prosecutors who seek to reduce the reach and burden of the criminal justice system. Such prosecutors have implemented reforms such as scaling back the prosecution of nonviolent misdemeanors, diverting defendants to treatment programs instead of punishment, and recommending against cash bail for defendants who might otherwise be detained pretrial. Such policies are controversial, and many worry that they could increase crime by reducing deterrent and incapacitation effects. In this paper we use variation in the timing of when these prosecutors took office, across 35 jurisdictions, to measure the effect of their policies on reported crime rates. While our estimates are imprecisely estimated, we find no significant effects of these reforms on local crime rates.

 

I don't think it's really accurate to say they blame anyone but the criminal.  There are still consequences for crime, just less harsh and punitive than previously.  This country has been madly in love with punitive measures for at least the last half century and it really hasn't gotten us anywhere.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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52-80

52-80 19066

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17 minutes ago, Foosters said:

I have no idea what you're trying to say or how it has anything to do with my response to a post alleging crime rates are increasing due to changes in the law.

But hey look over here! Look what a Hollywood lib said!

His point is pretty obvious to see if you arent looking with blinders: the attitude he quoted represents an apathy towards crime. that sort of indifference permits more crime. 
 

And if you want to tie it back to law, just look at California’s Proposition 47. Any property crime under $950 is downgraded to a misdemeanor. So if you want to smash a window and grab a wallet or whatever, the risk and severity of prosecution is much lower than it was before. 
 

Is the idea clearer now?

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TwiceHorn

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Just now, 52-80 said:

And if you want to tie it back to law, just look at California’s Proposition 47. Any property crime under $950 is downgraded to a misdemeanor. So if you want to smash a window and grab a wallet or whatever, the risk and severity of prosecution is much lower than it was before. 

Almost every study of crime and deterrence shows that risk of apprehension is a far bigger deterrent that the quantum of penalty.  So unless you are arguing that cops don't investigate and apprehend sub $950 thefts because they're now misdemeanors instead of felonies, I think you're off base here.

It is kind of interesting that monetary "penalty thresholds" don't have cost of living adjustments, because $950 buys about half what it did a decade or two ago.

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Foosters

Foosters 17691

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23 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

His point is pretty obvious to see if you arent looking with blinders: the attitude he quoted represents an apathy towards crime. that sort of indifference permits more crime. 
 

And if you want to tie it back to law, just look at California’s Proposition 47. Any property crime under $950 is downgraded to a misdemeanor. So if you want to smash a window and grab a wallet or whatever, the risk and severity of prosecution is much lower than it was before. 
 

Is the idea clearer now?

So crime should only be up in places like California, right?

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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6 hours ago, Foosters said:

So crime should only be up in places like California, right?

It's up everywhere where the number of cops has been depleted.  In places in CA they were telling store security guards to not stop people from blatant grab, and run shoplifting.  Not quite a deterrent to crime in my opinion.

 

 

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HornOnTheBayou

HornOnTheBayou 8877

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1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

 In places in CA they were telling store employees not to stop people from shoplifting..  Not quite a deterrent to crime in my opinion.

That's the case all across the country and has been for a long time. No store wants their employees trying to stop a shoplifter. 

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12771

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3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

It's up everywhere where the number of cops has been depleted.  In places in CA they were telling store employees not to stop people from shoplifting..  Not quite a deterrent to crime in my opinion.

You realize that every store tells employees not to stop people from shoplifting right? Companies aren’t going to endanger their employees for merchandise theft that’s already built into their budgets.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12771

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2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Is this your version of “but what about Chicago”?

No I think it’s a valid point he’s making. How does the crime compare in progressive places with progressive policies compare to the alternative? Without that information then your point isn’t anything other than a theory you made up. 
You could even be right, I haven’t seen the data. I doubt you are for the reasons @TwiceHorn pointed out.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31184

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4 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

No I think it’s a valid point he’s making. How does the crime compare in progressive places with progressive policies compare to the alternative? Without that information then your point isn’t anything other than a theory you made up. 
You could even be right, I haven’t seen the data. I doubt you are for the reasons @TwiceHorn pointed out.

And, no one really knows why crime rises and falls.  It does seem to broadly follow social and economic unrest.

Anyone that tries to argue too conclusively that it's one thing or another is probably trying to "sell" you something.

I think we've been far too willing, historically, to accept simplistic and facile "correlations" for political purposes.  Of course, this isn't something most of us are cut out to criticize.  It's more of a know what you don't know thing.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Are local police budgets (cuts/increases/status quo) still set at the Muni level?  Are laws regarding larceny, theft, B&E, etc.; are those still established at the state level?  

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Js1

Js1 85056

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2 hours ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

That's the case all across the country and has been for a long time. No store wants their employees trying to stop a shoplifter. 

 

15 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

You realize that every store tells employees not to stop people from shoplifting right? Companies aren’t going to endanger their employees for merchandise theft that’s already built into their budgets.

I haven’t worked retail since HS and even 2 decades ago, that was what we were told. They don’t want the liability if you get injured trying to stop a shoplifter while on the clock. 

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