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Man in Texas killed trying to pick up kids from ex-wife

Jive Turkey

By Jive Turkey
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CooterBrown
CooterBrown

When you normalize guns as something that’s necessary in grocery stores, when walking the street, at junior’s ballgame, etc. and you constantly preach a culture of fear and us vs them, there’s no othe

ChickenSandwich
ChickenSandwich

He retreated into the home. The opponent did not follow. Had every chance to call police or stay inside. Instead comes out with gun and creates confrontation. This is parallel to Aubrey. Murder.   

DanRydell
DanRydell

I think reasonable people could disagree about whether this was murder under the Texas statute but I simply don’t understand anyone who thinks this shouldn’t be murder.

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Captainant

Captainant 27,674

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

What about threatening to take the gun form you and shooting you with it, and then actually trying that?

Taking a gun away from someone brandishing it at you seems like more of a defensive move than bringing a gun and escalating things until you get to use your guns. 

Just don't understand why regular Joe's think they can use police tactics

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Jkwellborn

Jkwellborn 6,702

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I'm not saying green shirt was totally in the right, but if you brandish a gun at me, couldn't I be right in taking it from you?

Being on his parents property or where he was living keeps it from being brandishing under law right? Particularly with it being a rifle. What if it was an AR pistol? Would that even matter in this case?

I understand attempting to take a gun away from someone to protect yourself. I’m sure a lot of people would. To me, it’s more of a problem when he dares him to shoot him, threatens to take it from him and use it on him, and doesn’t leave after the warning shot.
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Harrison Bergeron

Harrison Bergeron 1,798

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

if you have time to go inside, get a weapon, come back and re engage, then shoot someone <<<< no way in hell that's self defense

if your life is in danger, keep your ass inside 

This just seems like way too much common sense.

I realize this is a practical comment vs. a legal one, but should there not be some weight to the fact that the guys know each other? From a common sense perspective, IMHO there is a big difference between someone you know vs. a stranger. If the guy feared for his life, go inside, get the gun if  you want, lock the door and call the cops. He might hate the guy, but he knows him and had a decent idea of his intentions for better or worse. I would have a little more sympathy if it was an erratic stranger, and one has no idea what his intentions, mental state, etc., could be; but this obviously was not the first conflict they had.

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Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan 4,007

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Not trying to parallel any actual scenarios, but if 2 people are arguing and both are unarmed/or concealed so neither party is 100% on the other's weapon status.  Person 1 "brandishes" (not pointing) his weapon first from a concealed holster would person 2 be justified in pulling his concealed gun and pointing and possibly shooting person 1?  Assuming this is on a 3rd parties property so there is no tresspassing angle.  Or does that go to trial and it's up to a jury to decide.

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used2b

used2b 249

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Posted (edited)

A few years ago in Midland a homeowner shot and killed a police officer who entered his home after a false security alarm. He was charged with murder and just acquitted today. That is a non-guilty verdict I can get behind in a castle doctrine case.

https://www.newswest9.com/article/news/crime/trial-david-wilson-midland-police-officer-nathan-heidelberg/513-1e34dfd5-86ab-4384-898f-921bc8103f64

The one this thread is about however, I cannot at this point.

 

Edited by used2b
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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15,932

Posted
Posted
On 12/2/2021 at 2:44 PM, Bravo said:

You're going to get blasted and get off if you attack someone on their porch while they have a gun and tell that person I'm going to take that from you and shoot you with it. Regardless of being a fucking moronic asshole who chose to bring the gun out which is legal. He may have wanted to kill him but he didn't initiate the physical aggression. 2 imbeciles dancing. 

"he didn't initiate the physical aggression". no he just initiated a fight or flight response from an otherwise non-threatening man when he brought a goddamn gun to an argument that had nothing to do with him. the murdering psychopath is absolutely responsible for the physical confrontation. 

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15,932

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i saw this video this morning, and it 100% reminded me of this thread, right down to the steeler fan's reaction to having beer poured in his face. steelers guy is upset, but he's otherwise just sitting there and not really a threat to anyone. then baltimore chick introduces a beer to the face, and steelers guy reacts *exactly the same way* as the deceased did here. exactly the same way. you  don't get to push someone over the edge, whether it's grabbing a gun and threatening to kill them, or pouring a beer in their face, and then say, "well he didn't have to react the way he did." no, you didn't have to escalate the shit out of a petty argument. 

i swear, American adults need some kind of Rage Room TM service where every once in a while you can go get all your pent up aggression out by kicking, punching, smashing, and shooting up everything in a specially designed place for releasing aggression. it's like half the population is just walking around praying they'll have a reason to start some shit today. 

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26,438

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

i swear, American adults need some kind of Rage Room TM service where every once in a while you can go get all your pent up aggression out by kicking, punching, smashing, and shooting up everything in a specially designed place for releasing aggression. it's like half the population is just walking around praying they'll have a reason to start some shit today. 

100%. I've been talking this talk since I can remember--conflict resolution is dead. De-escalation is seen as weakness. I blame Corporate Media/Social Media for exacerbating "rage culture/rage clicks". Hell, just look at this site. So many people get angry about stupid opinions that most of us avoid certain discussions. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,144

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100%. I've been talking this talk since I can remember--conflict resolution is dead. De-escalation is seen as weakness. I blame Corporate Media/Social Media for exacerbating "rage culture/rage clicks". Hell, just look at this site. So many people get angry about stupid opinions that most of us avoid certain discussions. 

It’s not my fault you put beans in your chili.

But I’m gonna take care of that transgression.
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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6,689

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, used2b said:

A few years ago in Midland a homeowner shot and killed a police officer who entered his home after a false security alarm. He was charged with murder and just acquitted today. That is a non-guilty verdict I can get behind in a castle doctrine case.

https://www.newswest9.com/article/news/crime/trial-david-wilson-midland-police-officer-nathan-heidelberg/513-1e34dfd5-86ab-4384-898f-921bc8103f64

The one this thread is about however, I cannot at this point.

 

I assume he will move away pretty quickly. MPD will be gunning for him.

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Nivek

Nivek 16,931

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Posted
 
i saw this video this morning, and it 100% reminded me of this thread, right down to the steeler fan's reaction to having beer poured in his face. steelers guy is upset, but he's otherwise just sitting there and not really a threat to anyone. then baltimore chick introduces a beer to the face, and steelers guy reacts *exactly the same way* as the deceased did here. exactly the same way. you  don't get to push someone over the edge, whether it's grabbing a gun and threatening to kill them, or pouring a beer in their face, and then say, "well he didn't have to react the way he did." no, you didn't have to escalate the shit out of a petty argument. 
i swear, American adults need some kind of Rage Room TM service where every once in a while you can go get all your pent up aggression out by kicking, punching, smashing, and shooting up everything in a specially designed place for releasing aggression. it's like half the population is just walking around praying they'll have a reason to start some shit today. 

You haven’t quite put it all together have you. Right wing media for the past 40 years has been telling right wing wackos they are victims, how everyone is living the good life off the backs of “real Americans” like them, and how they are victims that need to stand up and fight for their country or we are not going to have one anymore. The rhetoric is ladened with violence and the campaigns are littered with threats and images of violence.

The right pretends that this type of advertising doesn’t work. And that it is the left that is promoting violence. With guys like andy ngo provoking incidents and crying about it all the way to the bank.

This is a product of an unengaged, under educated, overworked populous being fed bullshit and lacking the skill to think objectively.

There is a reason former republicans keep saying facts have a liberal bias. There is a reason they do not want free and fair elections and representation.

This is the world they want. Violent, backwards looking with an uneducated populous of victims, easy to manipulate.
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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26,438

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7 minutes ago, Nivek said:


You haven’t quite put it all together have you. Right wing media for the past 40 years has been telling right wing wackos they are victims, how everyone is living the good life off the backs of “real Americans” like them, and how they are victims that need to stand up and fight for their country or we are not going to have one anymore. The rhetoric is ladened with violence and the campaigns are littered with threats and images of violence.

The right pretends that this type of advertising doesn’t work. And that it is the left that is promoting violence. With guys like andy ngo provoking incidents and crying about it all the way to the bank.

This is a product of an unengaged, under educated, overworked populous being fed bullshit and lacking the skill to think objectively.

There is a reason former republicans keep saying facts have a liberal bias. There is a reason they do not want free and fair elections and representation.

This is the world they want. Violent, backwards looking with an uneducated populous of victims, easy to manipulate.

CR----------->

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Samson's Wig

Samson's Wig 3,192

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2 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

i swear, American adults need some kind of Rage Room TM service where every once in a while you can go get all your pent up aggression out by kicking, punching, smashing, and shooting up everything in a specially designed place for releasing aggression. it's like half the population is just walking around praying they'll have a reason to start some shit today. 

Two things:

1.  Watching that kid in the video, who may or may not be with the dude who got beer thrown at him, is fucking heartbreaking.  People fucking suck.   If I didn't think it would be abused bureaucratically I might get on board with procreation licenses.

2.  There are lots of places as you describe.  Here's one of a few in the Austin area: https://www.thebreakingpointaustintx.com/  Maybe we should hand out vouchers or something.

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15,932

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3 minutes ago, Samson&#x27;s Wig said:

Two things:

1.  Watching that kid in the video, who may or may not be with the dude who got beer thrown at him, is fucking heartbreaking.  People fucking suck.   If I didn't think it would be abused bureaucratically I might get on board with procreation licenses.

2.  There are lots of places as you describe.  Here's one of a few in the Austin area: https://www.thebreakingpointaustintx.com/  Maybe we should hand out vouchers or something.

1)yes, i feel just terrible for that kid. he's sitting there bawling while all of the "adults" around him act like children.

2)wow, who knew? that's pretty cool. 

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11,362

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1 hour ago, Nivek said:


You haven’t quite put it all together have you. Right wing media for the past 40 years has been telling right wing wackos they are victims, how everyone is living the good life off the backs of “real Americans” like them, and how they are victims that need to stand up and fight for their country or we are not going to have one anymore. The rhetoric is ladened with violence and the campaigns are littered with threats and images of violence.

The right pretends that this type of advertising doesn’t work. And that it is the left that is promoting violence. With guys like andy ngo provoking incidents and crying about it all the way to the bank.

This is a product of an unengaged, under educated, overworked populous being fed bullshit and lacking the skill to think objectively.

There is a reason former republicans keep saying facts have a liberal bias. There is a reason they do not want free and fair elections and representation.

This is the world they want. Violent, backwards looking with an uneducated populous of victims, easy to manipulate.

sorry dude, this is a day off. CR in DT. you know better.

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15,531

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1 hour ago, Samson&#x27;s Wig said:

Two things:

1.  Watching that kid in the video, who may or may not be with the dude who got beer thrown at him, is fucking heartbreaking.  People fucking suck.   If I didn't think it would be abused bureaucratically I might get on board with procreation licenses.

2.  There are lots of places as you describe.  Here's one of a few in the Austin area: https://www.thebreakingpointaustintx.com/  Maybe we should hand out vouchers or something.

No doubt.  My attention was quickly drawn to the kid, who's just trying to watch a fucking football game.  "Heartbreaking" is exactly the right word.

As an aside, it's really sad that this is what the NFL has become.  When I was a kid, we had Cowboys season tickets.  I went to goddamned near every game from about 1987 to 1993.  Some of my favorite memories were of skipping out early on Thanksgiving dinner with my father to go to the Cowboys game.

I still love you, Leon Lett!

My son is a huge Giants fan.  But I'm not taking him to an NFL game, because that shit is fucking dangerous now.  If he ever does go to an NFL game, it's going to be in the super-expensive seats.  But even then, I don't think that's good enough because the hoi-polloi save up all their fucking nickels and will buy up those seats.

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Samson's Wig

Samson's Wig 3,192

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29 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

No doubt.  My attention was quickly drawn to the kid, who's just trying to watch a fucking football game.  "Heartbreaking" is exactly the right word.

As an aside, it's really sad that this is what the NFL has become.  When I was a kid, we had Cowboys season tickets.  I went to goddamned near every game from about 1987 to 1993.  Some of my favorite memories were of skipping out early on Thanksgiving dinner with my father to go to the Cowboys game.

I still love you, Leon Lett!

My son is a huge Giants fan.  But I'm not taking him to an NFL game, because that shit is fucking dangerous now.  If he ever does go to an NFL game, it's going to be in the super-expensive seats.  But even then, I don't think that's good enough because the hoi-polloi save up all their fucking nickels and will buy up those seats.

I completely agree and it's sad.  I wouldn't get my kids within a mile of an NFL game.  College football games are heading in the same direction, sadly.  College basketball is still largely kid friendly, and I've taken the kids to a few games. I'm really excited to be taking my kids to their first NHL game in Toronto right after Christmas - although that atmosphere is kid safe for a couple of reasons: it's in Canada and we bought the expensive seats.  Not all NHL games are kid friendly.

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closetohumping

closetohumping 17,442

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7 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

 

i saw this video this morning, and it 100% reminded me of this thread, right down to the steeler fan's reaction to having beer poured in his face. steelers guy is upset, but he's otherwise just sitting there and not really a threat to anyone. then baltimore chick introduces a beer to the face, and steelers guy reacts *exactly the same way* as the deceased did here. exactly the same way. you  don't get to push someone over the edge, whether it's grabbing a gun and threatening to kill them, or pouring a beer in their face, and then say, "well he didn't have to react the way he did." no, you didn't have to escalate the shit out of a petty argument. 

i swear, American adults need some kind of Rage Room TM service where every once in a while you can go get all your pent up aggression out by kicking, punching, smashing, and shooting up everything in a specially designed place for releasing aggression. it's like half the population is just walking around praying they'll have a reason to start some shit today. 

You know what part made me the saddest?  The guy's 10 year old kid is balling his eyes out.  SMH.  That sucks.

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TKthunder2

TKthunder2 4,991

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Posted
1 hour ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

And just to give you a modicum of satisfaction, I do occasionally enjoy tea with a teaspoon of sugar and some lemon.   Shoot me.  

To make sweet tea you’d need like 5 teaspoons of sugar to go along with your diabetes medication.

If I’m in the mood and want the tea to be sweet, I use like half a sweet-n-low and a lime.

Back on topic, shooting people is bad.

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Bob Lives!

Bob Lives! 914

Posted
Posted

The widow lost her suit to take custody of the killer’s kids. I don’t think she ever had any standing in the first place, but I don’t do family law. Sucks for these kids though. If I was one of them, I’d end up killing that prick in his sleep and never speak to my mother again.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/judge-dismisses-family-law-case-of-children-whose-father-was-shot-killed-on-texas-front-porch-during-argument-over-custody/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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closetohumping

closetohumping 17,442

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Posted
On 12/3/2021 at 7:55 PM, mchookem said:

so i guess where i land on this one is about the same as KR...the shooting seems legally justified, but just their posession of the firearm unnecessarily escalated what almost certainly would/should have been a non-lethal situation. so...yay them? 

oh and same for the Daniel Perry/Garrett Foster incident except times two. pew! pew!

Pardon me for bringing this back up or restating my case.  Do I believe that with some decent lawyers can take the shooters case to court and win that is say it was justified?  Yea.  But the shooter had a moment where he could’ve spared the victim.   “Dude get off my porch don’t advance”. Instead he just shot him

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