The debate is over- it's not the seating, it's the students

[shadow_operative 15,932]

I'm just going to dive right in and say how unbelievably disappointed I am with the atmosphere at this Gregory Gym game. It's embarrassing, and I almost can't believe what i'm seeing, even though i should have seen this coming a mile away. Chris Beard has gone so far above and beyond in his efforts to get the students involved and to do something special, and they've proven- as they have every single year since around the time TJ left- that they don't have it in them to be great basketball fans.

With my sleep issues preventing me from watching the game live, i could not wait to wake up and witness what i assumed would be an absolutely insane, Cameron Indoor type environment, and instead it's anything but. This crowd, comprised of nothing but the most die hard hoops fans on campus, sucks. it sucks. they are standing there with their arms folded or at their sides, simply waiting for the basketball team to give them a reason to get rowdy. holy shit what a disappointing sight.

we have had this debate for more than a decade on shaggy and surly- why does our student section suck so bad every single year? is it the location of our student sections, or is it that we just don't have great basketball fans? it's settled- it's clearly the latter.

seriously, seriously disappointed in what i'm watching right now. you give these kids every reason to just go apeshit for two hours, and instead they all just quietly stand there. unreal.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by shadow_operative

[shadow_operative 15,932]

the fact that 80% of these students with baseline seats are band members and some organized student fan group (the hell raisers?) makes this twice as bad. that's two groups whose actual purpose, at least in part, is to create the environment. and now we're going to give them many of the best seats at Moody. what a shame.

[Victor Lazlo 1,777]

Jesus, Derka, you would find a goose that shit golden eggs and then complain that you couldn’t eat them.

I thought they did pretty good, compared to previous years. We haven’t exactly had Duke-like success here, with the last few years of Shaka ball.

It will probably take a modicum of long term winning to get to the level of craziness that you are expecting from the students.

[shadow_operative 15,932]

6 minutes ago, Victor Lazlo said:

Jesus, Derka, you would find a goose that shit golden eggs and then complain that you couldn’t eat them.

More like Chris Beard could give our students the most unbelievable opportunity to just go apeshit for two hours during a basketball game at Greg and they would just quietly stand there like they're waiting in line at the DMV. 

[Rockethorn1978 6,093]

The beginning of that video had me dying. Just standing there staring hahahaha.

[shadow_operative 15,932]

12 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

The beginning of that video had me dying. Just standing there staring hahahaha.

one girl with floor seats was looking down at her phone as it starts. and the dudes who are all dressed alike are just standing there all huddled up like a bunch of sixth grade boys at their first ever middle school dance. i couldn't believe what i was seeing. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by shadow_operative

[Guest]

That floor is fucked up.  Gotdam badminton getup on a basketball court/ soccer field with Canadian end zones?

Edited November 30, 2021 by slorch

[Js1 85,418]

13 minutes ago, slorch said:

That floor is fucked up.  Gotdam badminton getup on a basketball court/ soccer field with Canadian end zones?

Because it’s a modified volleyball court.  It’s hideous but we don’t play bball there. 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Because it’s a modified volleyball court.  It’s hideous but we don’t play bball there. 

Yes, I've been to the Y before and about eleventy billion rec centers.  I wasn't expecting the 3rd  gym at a high school to be the presentation.  

Not a big deal, and concept is very cool.

Edited November 30, 2021 by slorch

[Guest Lobo]

25 minutes ago, slorch said:

That floor is fucked up.  Gotdam badminton getup on a basketball court/ soccer field with Canadian end zones?

I got a Canadian EndZone from your mom once. 
 

derka, calm down man.  It was a baby step to getting us to where we need to be as a program/basketball school.  I thought it would be a little louder myself and the setup wasn’t ideal.  They could have brought in temp bleachers for the west side where SHSU shot the first half.  And although they said “student only”, there was actually about 750ppl/20% were folks my age or older and they didn’t make a peep.   Not sure how it sounded on TV, but it was plenty loud down on the floor, believe me.  Students who were there really wanted to be there and were energetic as hell IMO.  
 

no way they do this next year since we’ll only have 8 or 9 NCO home dates next season insteAd of this year’s ten.  Moody will need to be utilized to the max.  But I could see us doing this again in the 2023-24 season (likely first one in SEC) and bring in more bleachers, limit olds attending, maybe bring in a former BiG XII/SWC rival (a TCU for throwback purposes).  Anyway, it waS a fun atmosphere.  Hope attendance and noise stay strong during holiday break when we are notoriously bad for crowd effect   

 

 

[Pam Cummings 9,645]

Idk if OP ever went to a Tech bball game before Beard, but it was pretty laughable how few people were in the arena. Then Beard shows up and they started playing in actual important games quite frequently and the fans really turned up. Gotta give it time.

[txhorns 2,409]

31 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Idk if OP ever went to a Tech bball game before Beard, but it was pretty laughable how few people were in the arena. Then Beard shows up and they started playing in actual important games quite frequently and the fans really turned up. Gotta give it time.

Impossible, I’ve been told numerous times that Tech fans are and have always been the most die hard basketball fans on Earth.  They literally invented basketball and cheering on your team.

[TexArcher 37,979]

7 minutes ago, txhorns said:

Impossible, I’ve been told numerous times that Tech fans are and have always been the most die hard basketball fans on Earth.  They literally invented basketball and cheering on your team.

And herpes.

[TexArcher 37,979]

As for last night, I watched on tv and I remember thinking several times, "Wow, it sure sounds louder with 3k people than with 10k to 17k people at Erwin."

We also weren't exactly playing Kansas.

[shadow_operative 15,932]

36 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Idk if OP ever went to a Tech bball game before Beard, but it was pretty laughable how few people were in the arena. Then Beard shows up and they started playing in actual important games quite frequently and the fans really turned up. Gotta give it time.

again, this is an issue that dates back nearly two decades, and has nothing to do with the product on the floor. whether we had Kevin Durant, or a top 5 team with multiple NBA players on it, or if we were shitty as hell, the student support has been largely terrible.

also, what you're describing is the definition of crappy fans/support. "wait until the program is great before you expect any of these people to care about it." the students don't get to demand better seats when they hardly show up, and then sit on their hands whenever they do attend games. Chris Beard did some really unique and cool shit for UT students, and they repaid him by awkwardly standing around, waiting for a cue to get loud. that's so disappointing.

[shadow_operative 15,932]

1 minute ago, TexArcher said:

As for last night, I watched on tv and I remember thinking several times, "Wow, it sure sounds louder with 3k people than with 10k to 17k people at Erwin."

We also weren't exactly playing Kansas.

well duh it was going to be loud. it's a tiny building that's packed with thousands of people. our volleyball matches there are even louder than last nights game was. the noise level changes nothing about the apathy that was on display in that clip i posted. 

[TexArcher 37,979]

Yeah, we're not gonna get Duke basketball's environment anymore than we get Ohio State's football environment because most of our current students only go to get a pic for their Instagram accounts.  I guess I'm just used to it.  

I do think Beard is doing all the right things to drum up interest (see what I did?).  And maybe with a deep tournament run and the opening of the new building it'll start to get better.

And doesn't your last comment point to the fact that it's both the seating at Erwin and the students?  It's not an either/or, right?

Edited November 30, 2021 by TexArcher

[Dennis Taylor 18,830]

6 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

I'm just going to dive right in and say how unbelievably disappointed I am with the atmosphere at this Gregory Gym game. It's embarrassing, and I almost can't believe what i'm seeing, even though i should have seen this coming a mile away. Chris Beard has gone so far above and beyond in his efforts to get the students involved and to do something special, and they've proven- as they have every single year since around the time TJ left- that they don't have it in them to be great basketball fans.

With my sleep issues preventing me from watching the game live, i could not wait to wake up and witness what i assumed would be an absolutely insane, Cameron Indoor type environment, and instead it's anything but. This crowd, comprised of nothing but the most die hard hoops fans on campus, sucks. it sucks. they are standing there with their arms folded or at their sides, simply waiting for the basketball team to give them a reason to get rowdy. holy shit what a disappointing sight.

we have had this debate for more than a decade on shaggy and surly- why does our student section suck so bad every single year? is it the location of our student sections, or is it that we just don't have great basketball fans? it's settled- it's clearly the latter.

seriously, seriously disappointed in what i'm watching right now. you give these kids every reason to just go apeshit for two hours, and instead they all just quietly stand there. unreal.

 

 

It is not the critic who counts; not the man sitting on his couch watching from his DVR who points out how the fan stumbles in the bleachers, or how the cheerer of cheers could have done them better. The credit belongs to the fan who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by popcorn butter

[RichUT 1,832]

Well of course it's the students. The sort of ravenous crowd you were looking for doesn't appear 6 games in under a new coach. Most traditions tend to start small and gather momentum as they get passed from one generation to the next. The sort of fandom you crave is a learned behavior that is passed down over the years by either parents or by upperclassmen to underclassmen. Really you need a combo of both to reach the level of Duke/UNC fandom. We have a minuscule number of true "dyed in the wool" Texas basketball fans on the planet, and it's going to take a decades long run of sustained high level play to increase those numbers to the point where they live up to what you're looking for. If Beard sticks with this as an annual tradition, I can definitely see it turning into something special. It just needs to get incrementally bigger and better each year.

I know you know this, but it's been 13 years since we've even been to a Sweet Sixteen. The current freshman class was 5 years old then. They have only ever known a Texas basketball program that has vacillated between below average to slightly above average with a mean value of meh. I think Beard is absolutely up to the task of changing the culture, but he's going to have to work this hard for years to realize the full potential of what's possible. 

[Red Five 40,862]

I thought it was fine for 3000 in attendance against Sam Houston St.

[TrashMaster G 17,565]

All the OP tells me is how unrealistic his expectations were.  

Nobody ever claimed one game would fix this.  You CAN'T make an Instant Cameron.

The atmosphere wasn't perfect, but it was good.  It's all a process and this was a step in the right direction.  Beard is making the right moves.

[Js1 85,418]

2 hours ago, slorch said:

Yes, I've been to the Y before and about eleventy billion rec centers.  I wasn't expecting the 3rd  gym at a high school to be the presentation.  

Not a big deal, and concept is very cool.

I think it's fun that we played there, but Texas is also hosting NCAA volleyball in a few days, so I doubt Texas was going to pull up the whole floor or lay something else down before then. 

It looked like shit, and I hope Texas either does exhibitions or a midnight tip-off in Gregory.

[Chopper 17,238]

OP are you an aspiring drama author?

[shadow_operative 15,932]

44 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Yeah, we're not gonna get Duke basketball's environment anymore than we get Ohio State's football environment because most of our current students only go to get a pic for their Instagram accounts.  I guess I'm just used to it.  

I do think Beard is doing all the right things to drum up interest (see what I did?).  And maybe with a deep tournament run and the opening of the new building it'll start to get better.

And doesn't your last comment point to the fact that it's both the seating at Erwin and the students?  It's not an either/or, right?

you're right, it's not an either/or, but i'm firmly on the side of "show me you deserve better seats before you demand them", and i felt like last night's game was THE opportunity for UT students to show that giving them the best seats is something they deserve, and as you can see, i am highly disappointed that that didn't happen.

[shadow_operative 15,932]

28 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

All the OP tells me is how unrealistic his expectations were.  

Nobody ever claimed one game would fix this.  You CAN'T make an Instant Cameron.

 

you guys are all acting like this was some regular November game at The Drum. this was far from it. Chris Beard threw a party for the students in front of the Tower, then led them to Gregory Gym, where only a couple thousand of the most hardcore hoops fans from our 50,000+ student body would be allowed in, and they STILL acted like they were there out of obligation or curiosity, not because they really really wanted to be there.

you cannot possibly do any more to help inspire the students up to create an amazing environment, and yet the people on the floor and beneath the baskets just stood there, some literally with their hands in their pockets or their arms folded, silently observing the game. if expecting something more than that was unrealistic, then the students can go ahead and have mezzanine seating sections at Moody. at least the blue hairs sitting down low will have donated some money that went to our program.

Edited November 30, 2021 by shadow_operative

[Deej 76,831]

34 minutes ago, RichUT said:

Well of course it's the students. The sort of ravenous crowd you were looking for doesn't appear 6 games in under a new coach. Most traditions tend to start small and gather momentum as they get passed from one generation to the next. The sort of fandom you crave is a learned behavior that is passed down over the years by either parents or by upperclassmen to underclassmen. Really you need a combo of both to reach the level of Duke/UNC fandom. We have a minuscule number of true "dyed in the wool" Texas basketball fans on the planet, and it's going to take a decades long run of sustained high level play to increase those numbers to the point where they live up to what you're looking for. If Beard sticks with this as an annual tradition, I can definitely see it turning into something special. It just needs to get incrementally bigger and better each year.

I know you know this, but it's been 13 years since we've even been to a Sweet Sixteen. The current freshman class was 5 years old then. They have only ever known a Texas basketball program that has vacillated between below average to slightly above average with a mean value of meh. I think Beard is absolutely up to the task of changing the culture, but he's going to have to work this hard for years to realize the full potential of what's possible. 

OP:

[Pato del Muerto 52,528]

There was one?

[Pato del Muerto 52,528]

5 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

only a couple thousand of the most hardcore hoops fans from our 50,000+ student body

The crowd shots last night showed me that it was far from only having students in there.  Unless 20% of our student body are in their 30s and 40s. And most of those types were just standing around. 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

i'm not going to continue to recap every single thing that Chris Beard did, not only yesterday, but over the last several months, to make last night happen for our students, because you already know all of that. i am however going to continue to be completely miffed as to what said students gave back to Beard and his players:

 

 

 

 

are those photos of a handful of the most hardcore basketball fans on campus, watching a tightly contested game from the best seats they've ever had, or are they of bored kids on some mandatory field trip that they couldn't get out of? 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

5 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

The crowd shots last night showed me that it was far from only having students in there.  Unless 20% of our student body are in their 30s and 40s. And most of those types were just standing around. 

yep, which is why i said "a couple thousand" as opposed to "four thousand". there hasn't been a more premium, hard-to-come-by ticket in years, and we still ended up with a bunch of nonplussed coeds checking their phones and standing silently. 

[ruitxn 298]

31 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

you're right, it's not an either/or, but i'm firmly on the side of "show me you deserve better seats before you demand them", and i felt like last night's game was THE opportunity for UT students to show that giving them the best seats is something they deserve, and as you can see, i am highly disappointed that that didn't happen.

What have the blue haired blue bloods with the good seats the last 40 years shown you?  I can just feel your excitement on who wins this student/stiff necks fan fest. Keep us informed periodically how this battle is progressing.

[Helobious 9,462]

For the most part, people in Texas don’t give too many shits about basketball. Especially not college basketball, and especially not the hyper-nerds that make up the UT student body nowadays. It just is what it is. We’ll never have a “Cameron crazy” atmosphere no matter what.

[The Earl of Texas 3,137]

20 minutes ago, Helobious said:

For the most part, people in Texas don’t give too many shits about basketball. Especially not college basketball, and especially not the hyper-nerds that make up the UT student body nowadays. It just is what it is. We’ll never have a “Cameron crazy” atmosphere no matter what.

The Rockets, Mavericks and Spurs are all successful and have great fanbases, so you're not really on that point. Also, I was in school when we went to the Final Four and the Elite Eight, don't tell me about not having crazy fans, we lined up early as shit and packed that motherfucker out. I was about 10 feet away from Bobby Knight when I told him to choke out his bitch point guard for not being able to break a simple press.

Winning solves everything.

[TexasIsBetter 275]

Start this tradition, win games, it'll be something the students pack the house for in a few years. It's simple. Duke has the crazies because they've won a billion games for 800 years. Give them Shaka for 5 years and see how crazy they are

[Dennis Taylor 18,830]

17 minutes ago, The Earl of Texas said:

The Rockets, Mavericks and Spurs are all successful and have great fanbases, so you're not really on that point. Also, I was in school when we went to the Final Four and the Elite Eight, don't tell me about not having crazy fans, we lined up early as shit and packed that motherfucker out. I was about 10 feet away from Bobby Knight when I told him to choke out his bitch point guard for not being able to break a simple press.

Winning solves everything.

[LonghornSean 4,008]

It was still a November college basketball game against Sam Houston State (i.e. basically meaningless). No early season basketball game against SHSU will ever be a raucous environment at Texas no matter what the coach or university drums up to create a buzz.

 

Texas fans in general are fickle, fair weathered, and wait to be entertained or impressed before getting too lively, except in the case of big consequential matchups or rivalries, whether that be football or basketball or whatever.

Edited November 30, 2021 by LonghornSean

[HookEm 2,467]

I was just glad that it was mostly packed.  I was half expecting only 1,000 students to show up.  If we have a successful team and make this a tradition, it will improve every single year.

[TrashMaster G 17,565]

2 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

you guys are all acting like this was some regular November game at The Drum. this was far from it. Chris Beard threw a party for the students in front of the Tower, then led them to Gregory Gym, where only a couple thousand of the most hardcore hoops fans from our 50,000+ student body would be allowed in, and they STILL acted like they were there out of obligation or curiosity, not because they really really wanted to be there.

you cannot possibly do any more to help inspire the students up to create an amazing environment, and yet the people on the floor and beneath the baskets just stood there, some literally with their hands in their pockets or their arms folded, silently observing the game. if expecting something more than that was unrealistic, then the students can go ahead and have mezzanine seating sections at Moody. at least the blue hairs sitting down low will have donated some money that went to our program.

You're acting like the atmosphere was no different from and no better than what we typically see in the Erwin Center.

[Kermit 3,156]

Shot man, that behavior is no different from what I see at DKR lately. Put out a consistently good product and the fan base will put out.

[Herpa Derpa 6,126]

Are you calling me a slut?

[MAUFRAIS 6,629]

UT has too many clubs with their little costumes that they lay out on the floor the night before to wear to games.  which one takes care of bevo again?  the hellraisers?

[texasstrong12 4,668]

5 hours ago, Helobious said:

For the most part, people in Texas don’t give too many shits about basketball. Especially not college basketball, and especially not the hyper-nerds that make up the UT student body nowadays. It just is what it is. We’ll never have a “Cameron crazy” atmosphere no matter what.

The average Texas student doesn’t even give a shit about football these days. 

I don’t think it’s simply because of the lack of success either it’s just a different student body from 20 years ago. 

[realgreggym 835]

You're late. This debate has been over for over 40 years.

[Underdog 28,711]

55 minutes ago, Herpa Derpa said:

Are you calling me a slut?

Well are you? 

[Guest Lobo]

58 minutes ago, Herpa Derpa said:

Are you calling me a slut?

Derp, you ignorant slut.  

Edited November 30, 2021 by Lobo

[dcar00 14,274]

58 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

The average Texas student doesn’t even give a shit about football these days. 

I don’t think it’s simply because of the lack of success either it’s just a different student body from 20 years ago. 

this.  It was a Monday. 80% of the students are studying.

but also late era Barnes and Shaka put basketball in the who gives a shit pile.  win and it will be packed.

[HtownHorn 14,726]

The student section was never full for any football game either. We have too many students that come here for school and give two shits about athletics.

[MidTexHorn 822]

OP with the seriously overly dramatic take. I've bitched for years about our fans, but all things considered last night was a pretty good showing and a good baby step in the right direction

[Deej 76,831]

51 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

The student section was never full for any football game either. We have too many students that come here for school and give two shits about athletics.

From this:

To this:

[ztejas 43,478]

8 hours ago, The Earl of Texas said:

The Rockets, Mavericks and Spurs are all successful and have great fanbases, so you're not really on that point. Also, I was in school when we went to the Final Four and the Elite Eight, don't tell me about not having crazy fans, we lined up early as shit and packed that motherfucker out. I was about 10 feet away from Bobby Knight when I told him to choke out his bitch point guard for not being able to break a simple press.

Winning solves everything.

Lol the Rockets have embarassing crowds. Not gonna let that slide.