3 killed, 8 injured in Michigan High School Shooting

[Guest Lobo]

8 minutes ago, Deej said:

Maybe we need bears patrolling the school hallways.

I mean, if Bears can do for gun violence what they did for forest fire safety, global warming PSAs, and Hamm's beer sales...I say we give it a shot.  

[52-80 19153]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

But if we start by realizing that there was some sort of shift/tipping point, probably between 20-40 years ago, give or take, we can come up with some ideas of where it came from and why it happened.  And when we do that, we can then come up with some ideas of how to try to turn the ship.  It's a big, slow-ass ship.  There can't and won't be any overnight solution.

Economic tools may be part of the solution -- it's a complex problem, so surely the right path will involve multiple elements as well.  I say put 'em all on the table.  But we really should try to figure out what the real root cause is.  It's not just "there are more guns around," as just one example.  We WANTED there to be more guns around -- we created the demand and acquired them.  What broke in our brains that made the kids who 30 years ago had a gun in their car at school and it never even occurred to them to use it to kill someone, vs. kids who now use a gun to act out their grievances?

If we recognize it's a uniquely American cultural phenomenon, then IMO we also need to recognize the futility in consciously changing a cultural phenomenon.  Why do or did Americans love baseball, country music, career hyper competitiveness, college athletics, jingoism?   I dunno.  It comes, it goes.  Culture changes itself.  We don't change culture.  Hopefully this thing dies off too.

Didn't most or ALL of the K-12 shooters have known behavioral issues?  If so, I put it on the parents first and foremost, and that's an even harder thing for outside parties to solve.

I dunno...all these kids who have issues with others.. train them all in martial arts and let them duke it out under mutual combat.

[Brisketexan 105123]

3 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

If we recognize it's a uniquely American cultural phenomenon, then IMO we also need to recognize the futility in consciously changing a cultural phenomenon.  Why do or did Americans love baseball, country music, career hyper competitiveness, college athletics, jingoism?   I dunno.  It comes, it goes.  Culture changes itself.  We don't change culture.  Hopefully this thing dies off too.

Didn't most or ALL of the K-12 shooters have known behavioral issues?  If so, I put it on the parents first and foremost, and that's an even harder thing for outside parties to solve.

I dunno...all these kids who have issues with others.. train them all in martial arts and let them duke it out under mutual combat.

Peace through Rex Kwon Do.  I knew it.....

And I don't disagree with you.  That said, we have chosen in the path to change our particular moral path on certain issues.  Sometimes quickly and easily, other times at great pain (abandonment of isolationism and devotion to a common cause after Pearl Harbor....compared with the much slower and more destructive burn of abolition of slavery, leading to a bloody civil war).

We've also improved on certain issues with a variety of points of attack -- economic tools, community leadership and education, etc.  See the dramatic decline in the teen birth rate:

There's no magic wand, there's no one thing.  But if we can just start by being honest, and realize that our gun violence problem has some specific broad cultural components, individual failures (parents etc.) and a system that allows for them/actually protects them, perverse economic incentives (we have a shitload of guns because someone can make money selling them), a glut of firearms compared to other places, and plenty more that I'm sure we could come up with, then we can envision a path forward that improves our situation by attacking a multi-dimensional problem with multi-dimensional solutions, we can actually make some progress.

 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

just saw this happened in dallas today.

Quote

Dallas Police say one person has been killed, and one person is in custody after a possible road rage shooting in North Dallas.

The call came in just after 2:15 p.m. on Central Expressway near Forest Lane.

imagine being so pissed off at someone that cut you off in traffic that you decide to pull out your gun and kill them. 

we are collectively ill.

[sidis 9828]

On 12/1/2021 at 4:39 PM, 52-80 said:

I believe he literally described what youre asking for, more than once, multiple posts back….if people cared to read and consider more than they do shouting their viewpoints (which is great for discourse btw)

 

good movie gif though

 

22 hours ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

In all seriousness, I actually posted some off the cuff thoughts on the matter. There was no begging off. Bother to read.

sorry fellas, just now circling back to this thread and saw your responses.  i think i may just be missing these not for lack of effort or reading, but maybe i am just missing the post.  i see the proposal that a bunch of children act as kamikaze cannon fodder and swarm shooters and that "certain people" should not be able to get guns (which i believe is already policy)...but not much beyond that.  perhaps you guys can point me to the post with the incremental change public policy discussion that i'm overlooking.

[52-80 19153]

37 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Was that something people tried to fix?  Seems just a natural consequence of the *average* age below.

(i.e. plot above again with cutoff at 16 or 17)

 

 

25 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

just saw this happened in dallas today.

imagine being so pissed off at someone that cut you off in traffic that you decide to pull out your gun and kill them. 

we are collectively ill.

If his was because driving in Dallas... probably many of them deserve it

[Brisketexan 105123]

1 minute ago, 52-80 said:

Was that something people tried to fix?  Seems just a natural consequence of the *average* age below.

(i.e. plot above again with cutoff at 16 or 17)

 

 

If his was because driving in Dallas... probably many of them deserve it

your point about "average age" reveals the complex factors in play in any issue like this.  Yes, that's a part of it....but is it causative, or does it correlate to the same social and economic forces that influence teen pregnancy rates?  More availability and acceptance of contraception is part of it as well.  The bigger point here is that we often talk in terms of "one thing" that would fix a complex problem, and we doom ourselves to failure, and then saying "see, nothing works!"  Complex multi-faceted problems require complex multi-faceted solutions.

[conVINCEd 21469]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

your point about "average age" reveals the complex factors in play in any issue like this.  Yes, that's a part of it....but is it causative, or does it correlate to the same social and economic forces that influence teen pregnancy rates?  More availability and acceptance of contraception is part of it as well.  The bigger point here is that we often talk in terms of "one thing" that would fix a complex problem, and we doom ourselves to failure, and then saying "see, nothing works!"  Complex multi-faceted problems require complex multi-faceted solutions.

I know a kid who murdered both of his parents.  15years old, charged as an adult ‘cause Texas, and serving a life sentence.  Parents were clients of mine.  Troubled would be an understatement.  I also got the privilege of witnessing how that affected his brothers and sister for a few years after it happened.  Not good.  Preventing troubled teens from obtaining guns seems like a good place to start.  I’m strongly in favor of draconian laws for parents who don’t secure their guns, or anyone who gets a gun in the hands of a teenager without adult supervision.   Like prison time even if nothing bad happens, and full criminal responsibility if something bad does happen.  Mom and dad are dead because dad didn’t secure his weapons.  I have no problem with taking the kids hunting or to the gun range with dad, grandpa, or their uncle, and I also purchased a gun last month.

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

1 hour ago, sidis said:

see the proposal that a bunch of children act as kamikaze cannon fodder and swarm shooters and that "certain people" should not be able to get guns (which i believe is already policy)...but not much beyond that.  perhaps you guys can point me to the post with the incremental change public policy discussion that i'm overlooking.

Oh. I see now. You can’t actually read anything that doesn’t march in 100% lockstep with you views on the matter.  
 

If you have a solution for a shooter forcing his way into a classroom that doesn’t involve the kids just sitting there waiting to get shot you can share it at any time. Or perhaps you can admit it’s probably the best shitty option available in that particular situation. 

[Cody2422 273]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

You're not wrong.  But until we start to make some progress in changing our minds, we're just re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

I mean, here I am, sounding like an old fart with "morality these days!" and "the kids with their violent videogames!" (I actually don't think that videogames really cause any of this -- I do have a hypothesis that they are a symptom of our greater culture trends, though).  But unless and until we can re-prioritize a message of "using a gun is a last, last, last resort -- you want to do everything you can to avoid taking a human life, and guns are serious fucking business, not toys and props," we're pissing in the wind.

I do agree with you here for sure.  What if that guy in Lubbock would have walked outside with 2 beers in his hands instead of a gun?  Probably would’ve resolved the issue peacefully and the kids dad would still be alive.  

[hookemATL 11724]

42 minutes ago, Cody2422 said:

I do agree with you here for sure.  What if that guy in Lubbock would have walked outside with 2 beers in his hands instead of a gun?  Probably would’ve resolved the issue peacefully and the kids dad would still be alive.  

Depends on the beer. If the cuntmuffin brings out some shitty domestic pisswater I would shoot him dead right there. 

[atomheartbevo 89659]

11 hours ago, Hate said:

You only have to be wrong once when it comes to home intruders.  Hell, the wife of an LA music exec was killed in a home invasion just this week. 

She's 81 so she wasn't exactly going to grab a rifle and defend herself.  Plus there was an actual armed guard on the premise ( she, her husband, and their guard were the only ones home).  Now, granted it's private security so who knows what kind of training he had, but it had to be more than she would have had. The way that thing played out seems odd, but that's for another thread - I have no idea if the murderer knew them or had inside info or what, but I'm assuming their paid guard is in deep shit.

11 hours ago, Hate said:

There are reports of people being killed during home invasions in the Houston area at least once a week or two.  Are these random or targeted?  I have no idea as there usually isn't a lot of follow up as to what actually happened, but they do happen.  I don't "worry" about them especially since I live in a very low crime neighborhood, but I'd rather have a gun and never need it than to need it and not have it.

I lived in the Houston area for over a decade.  Have been on my own since the early 90s, and have lived in some poor areas.  Never had this happen, have known a few people who got robbed, even one who was murdered, but I know far more people who were killed/injured by drunk drivers, spouses, mentally-ill relatives, etc.  But I know it happens.

I do have relatives/friends who live in a few areas that are low income/high crime (a couple in the Houston area, one here in Austin, and a few in San Antonio), and some do have firearms, and they hear shit/have shit that has went down around them (on their street). They think a firearm is the solution, when I think it's "do something and change your situation and move the fuck out to somewhere else", especially for the ones with kids, but that's for another thread, and some are in a bad situation that was somewhat out of their control, but even they have options.

But then I have an acquaintance who mainly goes between work at Dell  and his home in Cedar Park (subdivision where the houses start at $300,000), HEB and a few stores, and friends houses, and he has to be armed at all times.  Idiot got himself uninvited from our weekly Dungeons and Dragons/boardgames sessions in person because he wouldn't stop fucking bringing his sidearm into whoever's house it was being held at, and he had to make a fucking show of being armed, and made sure everybody saw him putting it on top of the fridge or in a cabinet. He made sure the kids saw it.  His fatass maybe thought it made him look cool or dangerous, but when you have to shift your belly fat to get to it, nobody's impressed.

Edit: We've had talks with him, trying to figure out why the fuck he needs to be armed driving between Cedar Park and Round Rock or going to friends houses, and it's some bullshit about "you never know when somebody might try and force you off the road or you break down or whatever.".  There is something wrong there, and I think that taps into what @Brisketexan mentioend about a shift in our culture.  This guy's dad's generation would have never thought that.  It makes me wonder if he was bullied.

Edited December 3, 2021 by atomheartbevo

[atomheartbevo 89659]

9 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

(I mean, if I'm tent camping in big-time grizzly country, I'd sleep easier with a .45 nearby). 

9 hours ago, immortal13 said:

I got bad news for you, bruh

Brisket doesn't have to shoot the bear, he just has to shoot somebody else in the knee or foot to slow them down as Brisket and family flee.

[Hate 20108]

I think he may have gotten uninvited from the D&D game on purpose.

[atomheartbevo 89659]

6 hours ago, mchookem said:

ok, crossposting from the Crockett HS thread as this one seems to be getting more traffic...

so with all these reports in TX, and additional reports from other schools in MI (closing out of precaution, 'rumors'...) and the added variable of internet/social media connectivity...i wonder if there's some reddit or 4chan/8chan (whatever) group of angry disaffected teens where these are being coordinated?

just seems to be a lot in just a couple of days, including the MI shooter that was 'successful'...

or maybe these 'threats' happen all the time and we never hear about it, i.e., they are 'handled', and the only reason we're hearing about these is b/c one was recently 'successful'...

A lot of kids have only been back at school full-time for a few months, and I've wondered if this is something related to that, and if we will see more.

[atomheartbevo 89659]

5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I knew guys even in college who went out and bought their first gun (usually some sort of cool-looking automatic handgun back then) and casually saying shit about how they hoped some dumbass would make a mistake and break into their place, and they'd blow him away.

We just watched a cop on video blowing away a guy.....in a fucking RASCAL.  When he had 100 other options that didn't involve "empty your fucking magazine into him from 5 feet away."

We just watched a guy come out of a house with a gun, ending up killing a guy who was there to get his kid in a custody argument.

We have kids who openly fantasize -- and occasionally, make reality -- about shooting up their schools.  Whereas even 30 years ago, a shitload of us had firearms in our car on school property and it never even occurred to us to turn a fight into a gunfight.

There's something to it.

40 years ago or so, I was at a rural school that had K-12, and plenty of high school kids and teachers had gun racks, and many would have guns in them during hunting season, and nobody ever through about turning a fight, even a fistfight, into a gunfight.

The Dirty Harry movies, "Go ahead punk make my day" came out in the '70s, violent westerns and crime/cop movies were abundant in the '70s and '80s (Scarface was in the 80s, Godfather in the 70s, Taxi Driver in the 70s, etc.), but there is definitely some kind of shift with kids born in the last 30 years or so.

I do remember guys doing what you said in college/after high school, and getting some cheap-ass Pegasus or whatever sidearm and talking about being tough if somebody confronted them.

I wonder if maybe it's a parenting thing - maybe parents of difficult or loner kids have checked out over the past 20-30 years.  Hell, as a kid, if I took a gun out of the house without permission, I was going to be whipped when my dad found out.  Full-on belt on bare ass whipping. Is it a discipline thing - I am older enough that I was spanked in school, and I can remember school bullies being spanked, and people were afraid of that.  I'm not advocating we go back to that, mind you.

I keep going back to these kids are somehow able to check out of reality, and nobody, school or parents, is checking in on them or something.  Social media could have only made it worse, with both these kids being ostracized by others, but also finding others who egg them on. Maybe it's a 90s thing and VHS and kids having access to a lot more violent stuff on TV/video, but I remember the Satanic Panic bullshit, and plenty of kids grow up watching violent shit and it doesn't turn them into mass shooters.

There's something there though.  Some cultural shift, and it feels like it's the 90s.

[Baboontyme 2810]

I lived in Detroit and I've never been robbed. Unless you consider paying money to watch the Lions in the early 00s. 

School is cancelled again tomorrow. There are no credible threats at all but our district is basically calling it a mental health break. Seems like a good idea to me. A lot of kids, parents, and teachers are on edge and upset right now.

I will even go as far as to say that the thing UM is doing on their jerseys Saturday is pretty damn cool. A sure sign that I'm pretty worn down emotionally right now. 

[conVINCEd 21469]

6 minutes ago, Baboontyme said:

I lived in Detroit and I've never been robbed. Unless you consider paying money to watch the Lions in the early 00s. 

School is cancelled again tomorrow. There are no credible threats at all but our district is basically calling it a mental health break. Seems like a good idea to me. A lot of kids, parents, and teachers are on edge and upset right now.

I will even go as far as to say that the thing UM is doing on their jerseys Saturday is pretty damn cool. A sure sign that I'm pretty worn down emotionally right now. 

You were robbed.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

15 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

There's no magic wand, there's no one thing.  But if we can just start by being honest, and realize that our gun violence problem has some specific broad cultural components,

We didn't get away with shit growing up. If you started something in school, parents were brought in and Dad kicked ass. Didn't matter what the story was, Dad supported the teachers version. I don't believe that's true anymore. Something changed where the kids became Super Special Magical Beings that were above reproach and discipline. Maybe that's part of it.

[52-80 19153]

10 hours ago, Baboontyme said:

I lived in Detroit and I've never been robbed. Unless you consider paying money to watch the Lions in the early 00s. 

School is cancelled again tomorrow. There are no credible threats at all but our district is basically calling it a mental health break. Seems like a good idea to me. A lot of kids, parents, and teachers are on edge and upset right now.

I will even go as far as to say that the thing UM is doing on their jerseys Saturday is pretty damn cool. A sure sign that I'm pretty worn down emotionally right now. 

you watched the greatest running back in the history of the game.  no robbery.

[smuggs 9353]

15 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

we are collectively ill.

The little known B-side to Time To Get Ill.

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, Cheeseweasel said:

We didn't get away with shit growing up. If you started something in school, parents were brought in and Dad kicked ass. Didn't matter what the story was, Dad supported the teachers version. I don't believe that's true anymore. Something changed where the kids became Super Special Magical Beings that were above reproach and discipline. Maybe that's part of it.

The fear of a good ass kicking has done much to deter stupid shit over the eons with children and today that’s not the caseThe fear of a good ass kicking has done much to deter stupid shit over the eons with children and today that’s not the case

[Deej 76768]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

The fear of a good ass kicking has done much to deter stupid shit over the eons with children and today that’s not the caseThe fear of a good ass kicking has done much to deter stupid shit over the eons with children and today that’s not the case

[Guest Lobo]

With or without corporal punishment in the home and in the school, young men have always been little fucking assholes.  But they didn't have access to firepower like this for the first 99.999% of human history.  

[You don't know me 1161]

3 minutes ago, Lobo said:

With or without corporal punishment in the home and in the school, young men have always been little fucking assholes.  But they didn't have access to firepower like this for the first 99.999% of human history.  

I think it's more than just access to firepower.  Other countries have access to the same firepower, yet we have far more things like this happening.  I hate to say it, but we are just broken and I don't know that there's a way to fix it.  There are people in our society that have no regard for human life.  It's sad, it sucks, and I do hope that there is something that can be done.  I don't want the solution to be more security in our schools, having more people armed, or any other ideas like that.  I'm a supporter of the 2nd amendment, but there has got to be something better than more people armed.  I have weapons, but they do not leave my house except to shoot at a range.  My weapons are for peace of mind within my home.  If someone were on my property and stealing something outside, they can have it.  I'm not going to kill another human being over a "thing".  Maybe I'm in the minority of other gun owners, but for anyone to be on the wrong side of my weapon, they will need to be in my house and a threat to my family.

When I was a kid, my dad taught me how to shoot when I was around 11 or 12 years old.  The very first thing that he told me was to never point a gun at any other person or animal unless I intended to kill.  He taught me that every gun was loaded, whether you think it is or not.  My dad and I both served in the Marine Corps, so we had a bit more training than the normal person on the street. 

I guess the bottom line is that in my mind, we're simply screwed up as a society.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

28 minutes ago, Lobo said:

With or without corporal punishment in the home and in the school, young men have always been little fucking assholes.  But they didn't have access to firepower like this for the first 99.999% of human history.  

Sure they have, But the possibility of your dad paddling your ass has kept a lot of that fuckery in check

Edited December 3, 2021 by Onboard 2.0

[Guest Lobo]

18 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Sure they have, But the possibility of your dad paddling your ass has kept a lot of that fuckery in check

Agreed.  But most of the kids shooting up schools come from 2-parent homes in "relatively" stable environments.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

9 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Agreed.  But most of the kids shooting up schools come from 2-parent homes in "relatively" stable environments.  

Two parents isn’t really the issue it’s more historically most kids felt like they were gonna get an ass whipping  from their parents they probably would not do a lot of things they do today that whole philosophy is almost looked on as child abuse.

So many parents try to be friends with their children, (my brothers wife is a prime example of that lunacy) and that is a really bad bad thing to do. We figured if the kids were pissed we were doing our job right.

two parents also doesn’t mean a stable healthy family life. The whole recent gun purchase thing with that family rings bizarre.

[burntorangebongos 10710]

13 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

  Some cultural shift, and it feels like it's the 90s.

I think the shift was well before that but the corruption of our society started really showing its cracks then. Columbine happened in 99 and instead of making sound and reasonable policy to help prevent this tragedy from happening again, the politicians at all levels succumbed to the pressure and bribes of the gun lobbies and took no reasonable measures....and we did nothing about it but shrug our shoulders and say, "it is what it is." 

This isn't really different from the opioid epidemic in how this industry has run amok and run rough shod over the country with their bullshit propaganda and dirty lobbying tactics and money. We saw it and  our politicians bent the knee right in front of us. Remember how proud they were to get A's on their voting record from the NRA? We let it happen because we swallowed the delusional bullshit of the 'Merica they were selling weapons to, unimpeded by logical regulations or policy. Pumping up the small dicked bullied incels into thinking a gun made them relevant and cool. And we did nothing to push back.

Maybe a few tried to warn that we needed policy changes but they got drowned out. It would have been tweaks then, but now we are here. Talk about painting yourself into a corner. It will now be fucking painful as hell to fix this. We are stupid and we got duped, and the worst part of it all is that we will never go against this industry to pay society back for the harm it caused like big tobacco and pharma have to do. They will skate like the banks. 

[Storm the Field 5294]

 

[Guest Lobo]

I smell holiday suicide pact between mom & dad this Christmas!  
 

“honey, I know the school officials have been writing us/calling us/meeting with us with dire concerns about our son.  We should stop off at the bookstore and get some books about how to talk to him and address this head on before he acts out on all this.”  

”sounds good sweetheart, first let me just run in here and buy some sporting goods”

who the fuck is this country?

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

18 hours ago, Lobo said:

I mean, if Bears can do for gun violence what they did for forest fire safety, global warming PSAs, and Hamm's beer sales...I say we give it a shot.  

If by "Hamm's beer sales" you mean Charmin toilet paper by proxy, then I agree.

[C-Man 27222]

22 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

 

[Guest Lobo]

Took me 40 years to see the brilliantly covert marketing crossover between those two products and their bear spokesperson.  Bravo to you sir

[Johnny Sack 8397]

You guys will be glad to know school shootings have decreased dramatically in the last 30 years.  It is an aspect of our society that has improved tremendously.  Our schools are much safer from gun violence than they were when we were in high school.  The perception that schools are more dangerous now does not match the data.

Quote

the overall number of gunshot victims at schools is also down. According to Fox's numbers, back in the 1992-93 school year, about 0.55 students per million were shot and killed; in 2014-15, that rate was closer to 0.15 per million.

 

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593831564/the-disconnect-between-perceived-danger-in-u-s-schools-and-reality

 

 

[C-Man 27222]

Anybody else watching this press conference? Holy. Fucking. Shit.

[Skipper 6135]

So they bought him the gun as a Christmas present, the parents were told by the school he was fantasizing about killing people but they don't bother taking his gun away or making sure he doesn't have it?   Yeah, lock them the fuck up.

[C-Man 27222]

Wasn't taking detailed notes but it went something like this:

• Parents bought the 9mm pistol for Ethan as an early Xmas gift
• Ethan posted pics of 9mm, calling the gun his new toy or baby, something
• Ethan was caught in class looking up "ammunition" on his phone and was reported to admin by the teacher
• Emails were sent to Ethan's mother who responded to him with something like "LOL, I'm not mad but you've got to learn how not to get caught"
• Pictures drawn by Ethan were seen as well, pics of people shot with blood and the words "Help me" and "Life is Useless"
• The pictures were followed up with the laughing emoji
• Parents were summoned to the school to discuss what they'd found
• Ethan was brought out of class to the meeting
• Parents were encouraged to take him out of school and he was required to be put into counseling within 48 hours
• Parents didn't take him out of school and he went back to class
• Parents never asked where the 9mm was and did NOT search his backpack -- the gun was in the backpack the entire time
• School shooting took place that afternoon

[High Plains Drifter 11049]

21 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

You guys will be glad to know school shootings have decreased dramatically in the last 30 years.  It is an aspect of our society that has improved tremendously.  Our schools are much safer from gun violence than they were when we were in high school.  The perception that schools are more dangerous now does not match the data.

 

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593831564/the-disconnect-between-perceived-danger-in-u-s-schools-and-reality

 

 

 

This is a good point. (Although I would like to see a trend line superimposed on that graph and the data extended to 2020).

 

However, it doesn't mean we don't have a problem.

 

I think the relevant question here is what has caused that decline, if in fact it is a decline. Is it because we have turned our schools into fortresses? If that is the reason (and I have no idea if it is), surely we can do better than that.

 

And i strongly believe the larger problem with gun violence we have is the culture of guns we have here in the US. That is what needs to be changed. It won't be easy, it will take a long time. There are many ways to do that, some of which have been proposed by various posters in this thread. There is no one answer, there are many small answers.

 

edit after seeing C-mans summary: Those parents exemplify exactly what I mean by "gun culture". In what kind of fucked up culture is it acceptable to give a teenager a handgun for christmas? Christ on a fucking crutch.

(I had a 20 gauge shotgun as a teen that I used for hunting rabbits on my grandfather's farm, but that gun stayed at the farm, and the only time I was allowed to use it was in the company of an immediate adult relative. All other times it was in the gun cabinet.)_

 

Law doggy doggs: After the parents end up getting charged with something (I presume they get at least some slap on the wrist), they could be subjected to bankrupting levels of civil lawsuits, no?

Edited December 3, 2021 by High Plains Drifter

[wildcat09 29354]

That data isn't actually about the number of school shootings, but the number of school shooting victims as a percentage of the total student population. Given how substantial the drop between the 90s and today is, I don't doubt that the actual number of school shootings is also down, but I'd be curious to see the actual numbers. Not just between the 90s and today, but for each year going back to, say, 2005. There's certainly something to the fact that social media makes us all aware of every single school shooting now, but the article says there's an average of about one school shooting a year and that doesn't seem accurate if we're talking about only the last 10-15 years or so. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

36 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Wasn't taking detailed notes but it went something like this:

• Parents bought the 9mm pistol for Ethan as an early Xmas gift
• Ethan posted pics of 9mm, calling the gun his new toy or baby, something
• Ethan was caught in class looking up "ammunition" on his phone and was reported to admin by the teacher
• Emails were sent to Ethan's mother who responded to him with something like "LOL, I'm not mad but you've got to learn how not to get caught"
• Pictures drawn by Ethan were seen as well, pics of people shot with blood and the words "Help me" and "Life is Useless"
• The pictures were followed up with the laughing emoji
• Parents were summoned to the school to discuss what they'd found
• Ethan was brought out of class to the meeting
• Parents were encouraged to take him out of school and he was required to be put into counseling within 48 hours
• Parents didn't take him out of school and he went back to class
• Parents never asked where the 9mm was and did NOT search his backpack -- the gun was in the backpack the entire time
• School shooting took place that afternoon

They need to be in jail cells 

[burntorangebongos 10710]

A gun as a Christmas present to a TROUBLED teen! And one that they knew has shoot em up fantasies. This  negligence should be made into a felony. 

But definitely, it should be policy that when a troubled teen like this is found out that all guns be removed from their home and no gun purchases are allowed during the required protocols for treatment. And they should have insisted the parents remove him from school or he goes to in-school lock up WHERE THEY PUT HIM AFTER THE FACT!

Negligence all around. Those poor traumatized families of the dead kids and those kids that ever have been through a shooting. The risk is negligible so we won't change shit, so suck it up or move the fuck out! 

[hornbri 1398]

Why didn’t the school kick him out of school at that point? It seems like the pictures + the social media posting + search would have been enough to suspend. I have head of less. 

[Anastasis 23469]

Fuck those parents.  Ass kickings and then throw them in a cell for a long long long time. 

[burntorangebongos 10710]

I would have insisted he get off campus with his parents right then or go to in-school suspension alone until they can make arrangements to take him. They need to treat all troubled kids like him in this manner to jolt these stupid fucking parents into understanding the seriousness of their child's issues. Their heads were so far up their asses about him, it is astoundingly shocking in hindsight. 

[cabowabo 4484]

Fuck those parents. But why didn’t someone from the school search his backpack during that meeting?

[burntorangebongos 10710]

They didn't know what his stupid fucking parents had bought him and already gave him. They obviously don't have good protocol for kids like him in place.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

Parents need to take responsibility when they give their child a firearm.  Scratch that, anyone should take some level of responsibility if they give anyone a gun, especially involving a minor or someone with mental/criminal issues.

[Skipper 6135]

12 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

They obviously don't have good protocol for kids like him in place.  

I bet there will be after this.   You are already subject to search at any time at school.   Every school should have a policy that if they see red flags, there is an immediate search of backpack, locker, etc.

[Zepol87 9185]

16 minutes ago, cabowabo said:

Fuck those parents. But why didn’t someone from the school search his backpack during that meeting?

Yea why didn't the school search his shit? In HS any goofball "reporting" you had anything in your backpack got it searched immediately.