3 killed, 8 injured in Michigan High School Shooting

[conVINCEd 21,469]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Know that feel. 

I actually bought a pretty expensive piece of furniture off Facebook many years ago and I had to call to up the limit.  They did it with little hassle.  Not sure how far I could’ve upped it, but they honored my request on a Sunday.

[DanRydell 799]

Parents coming in.
If there was an uptick in parents being prosecuted who were negligent and word got out that this was how it was going to be in the future, I wonder if more parents would do a better job of securing their firearms.

That’s been my gun policy proposal for years. Own whatever the fuck you want but if a crime is committed with your gun and you either entrusted it to the perpetrator or failed to reasonably secure it, you’re criminally and civilly responsible as if you were the perpetrator.

[Brothahorn 10,087]

2 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

I’m fine with whatever happens to two parents who give a troubled 15 year old a handgun for an early Xmas present and allow him to stick it in his backpack and take it to school.

Those fuckers deserve to hang right next to the shitty child they raised.

As a parent and gun owner, it's your responsibility to keep your guns secured from unstable people. Even if it's your child. Fuck the whole family.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Brothahorn

[TwiceHorn 31,457]

On 12/2/2021 at 1:01 PM, Lerka Lerka said:

The preferred nomenclature is “mag” or magazine… just a heads up for your future informed hot takes on guns. 

Unless you're shooting a Garand, or Springfield 03, or Mauser 98.

[TwiceHorn 31,457]

2 hours ago, Bravo said:

Semi automatic firearms have been legal to own for a very long time. Why wasn't this a thing until the mid 90s then? 

Honestly, I think the proliferation of civilian variants of the AR-15 changed American gun culture for the worse.  That proliferation also seemed to coincide with the deterioration of the NRA from a responsible firearm organization into a right-wing superPAC, so maybe there's a chicken/egg question there.

While it is an excellent weapon system in its own right, it isn't traditionally either a target arm or a hunting arm.  There are plenty of traditional gun owners, steeped in hunting, or target shooting, or even collecting, that emphasize gun safety and other aspects of responsible gun ownership that own and shoot AR-15 variants and enjoy tinkering with them.

But AR-15s also brought into the fold a bunch of big truck, freedumb-loving patriot bros and their Lauren Boobert bitchez who love to shoot up beer cans and watermelons with a fucking semi-auto, 20 or 40 round center-fire rifle. Get a fucking Marlin 60/99 or Ruger 10/22 for that shit.

There's a fairly large market for stupid accessories like bumpfire stocks for fuck's sake, that make them imitate automatic weapons and serve no purpose but to spray a bunch of inaccurate rounds at a high rate of fire. Pew, pew, pew. Most old-time hunters and target shooters think that's dumb as shit. 

I bet there are a stunning number of people that own only AR-15s and variants, and maybe a handgun or two, and nothing else.  No hunting rifles, no target rifles, no target pistols, no shotguns, except maybe a "street sweeper,".  And I bet, if you could measure such a thing, they're very light on gun safety education, safe storage of firearms, etc.

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[DDD Dad 14,338]

15 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Honestly, I think the proliferation of civilian variants of the AR-15 changed American gun culture for the worse.  That proliferation also seemed to coincide with the deterioration of the NRA from a responsible firearm organization into a right-wing superPAC, so maybe there's a chicken/egg question there.

While it is an excellent weapon system in its own right, it isn't traditionally either a target arm or a hunting arm.  There are plenty of traditional gun owners, steeped in hunting, or target shooting, or even collecting, that emphasize gun safety and other aspects of responsible gun ownership that own and shoot AR-15 variants and enjoy tinkering with them.

But AR-15s also brought into the fold a bunch of big truck, freedumb-loving patriot bros and their Lauren Boobert bitchez who love to shoot up beer cans and watermelons with a fucking semi-auto, 20 or 40 round center-fire rifle. Get a fucking Marlin 60/99 or Ruger 10/22 for that shit.

There's a fairly large market for stupid accessories like bumpfire stocks for fuck's sake, that make them imitate automatic weapons and serve no purpose but to spray a bunch of inaccurate rounds at a high rate of fire. Pew, pew, pew. Most old-time hunters and target shooters think that's dumb as shit. 

I bet there are a stunning number of people that own only AR-15s and variants, and maybe a handgun or two, and nothing else.  No hunting rifles, no target rifles, no target pistols, no shotguns, except maybe a "street sweeper,".  And I bet, if you could measure such a thing, they're very light on gun safety education, safe storage of firearms, etc.

 

‘Member what I said about your posts looking to me like I had written them?

Except of course yours was better. 

Edited December 4, 2021 by DDD Dad

[conVINCEd 21,469]

A couple of fugitives is what this country needs right now.

 

[hookemATL 11,724]

Just now, conVINCEd said:

A couple of fugitives is what this country needs right now.

 

[TwiceHorn 31,457]

53 minutes ago, Bravo said:

#1 the 2A has nothing to do with hunting. #2 you apparently have never been hog hunting because it is the most popular rifle used. #3 the type of gun doesn't cause these shootings. Heck, the gun in this shooting was your standard 9mm handgun. It's a mental health issue and a society/family issue normally. 

#1 No one said it did.  My point is that there are a lot of gun owners who, through hunting, target shooting, or collecting, have, for generations passed down shooting sports and responsible gun ownership from parent to child and so on.

#2 I didn't exclude the possibility of their legitimate use as hunting, or target weapons; nevertheless, I think the proliferation of black rifles brought a lot of excess dipshits into the world of gun ownership.

#3 that is not a standard 9mm handgun.  it's some kind of bastard plinking rifle.

Edited December 4, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31,457]

11 minutes ago, Bravo said:

It was a Sig 9mm. very standard. Similar to a glock.

It may be a 9mm, it may be a Sig, but it is not a handgun and only similar to a glock in chambering.

My best guess would be a Ruger PC carbine of some form or other.  Ruger is a fine company, but they're not exempt from makind dopey guns.

Edited December 4, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Bama Chick 28,596]

[TwiceHorn 31,457]

7 minutes ago, Bravo said:

this is the MI HS shooting thread. Got mixed up. Yes, that is a 9mm rifle. it looks scary but no different than any glock you could buy.

Oh yeah.  I started off responding to your more general post.

Nonetheless, I think the "broadened appeal" of the AR-15 variant increased interest in a) ownership of guns b) ownership of military style weapons c) to include semi-auto pistols d) created an interest in quasi-military self-defense notions and concealed and open carry d) in a segment of the population that had not been traditional gun owners and steeped in the solemnity of it.

I grew up around guns and with guns, although my Dad was not a hunter.  My friends all have guns and many hunt, some target shoot.  Few or none of us have concealed carry permits and none of us have any interest in open carry under any circumstances.  Few of us are black rifle maniacs.

Edited December 4, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Bama Chick 28,596]

They’re caught.

[956 Worldwide 34,710]

So, this may be unpopular, but I think the juvenile justice system is designed for this person. Clearly disturbed, emotional issues, acting out, asshole parents who ignored everything. He basically painted “I’m a potential school shooter” on his forehead and these people bought him a gun. “Didn’t have a chance” applies.

In a sane world, the parents would be facing 1st degree murder and terrorism and the kid involuntary manslaughter as a juvy. 

[956 Worldwide 34,710]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Oh yeah.  I started off responding to your more general post.

Nonetheless, I think the "broadened appeal" of the AR-15 variant increased interest in a) ownership of guns b) ownership of military style weapons c) to include semi-auto pistols d) created an interest in quasi-military self-defense notions and concealed and open carry d) in a segment of the population that had not been traditional gun owners and steeped in the solemnity of it.

I grew up around guns and with guns, although my Dad was not a hunter.  My friends all have guns and many hunt, some target shoot.  Few or none of us have concealed carry permits and none of us have any interest in open carry under any circumstances.  Few of us are black rifle maniacs.

If someone offered the trade— kids can have bolt action 30.-06 or other deer gun or bird guns in their gun racks in the lot, and in exchange we’re going to make semiautomatic rifles with high capacity magazines and handguns tightly regulated. 
 

I’d take that trade. 

[UTGrad98 2,272]

3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

So, this may be unpopular, but I think the juvenile justice system is designed for this person. Clearly disturbed, emotional issues, acting out, asshole parents who ignored everything. He basically painted “I’m a potential school shooter” on his forehead and these people bought him a gun. “Didn’t have a chance” applies.

In a sane world, the parents would be facing 1st degree murder and terrorism and the kid involuntary manslaughter as a juvy. 

We tried this for a few decades. Didn't work. Needs to be tried as an adult.  I do agree with your assessment on the parents. 

[Anastasis 23,469]

3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

So, this may be unpopular, but I think the juvenile justice system is designed for this person. Clearly disturbed, emotional issues, acting out, asshole parents who ignored everything. He basically painted “I’m a potential school shooter” on his forehead and these people bought him a gun. “Didn’t have a chance” applies.

In a sane world, the parents would be facing 1st degree murder and terrorism and the kid involuntary manslaughter as a juvy. 

Want to hear from the dip shit parents and the kid. But your assessment seems reasonable. This kid is tucked in the head, but he sure was failed by his parents. 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Anastasis

[Celery Man 20,943]

7 hours ago, Bravo said:

#1 the 2A has nothing to do with hunting. #2 you apparently have never been hog hunting because it is the most popular rifle used. #3 the type of gun doesn't cause these shootings. Heck, the gun in this shooting was your standard 9mm handgun. It's a mental health issue and a society/family issue normally. 

I think 2h is actually talking fairly directly about the deteriorating mental health of a large segment of our population.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,817]

[TwiceHorn 31,457]

14 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I think 2h is actually talking fairly directly about the deteriorating mental health of a large segment of our population.

Actually, yeah I think theres something to that and have had that theory for a while, especially as pertains to lower economic classes.

Edited December 4, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

4 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

So, this may be unpopular, but I think the juvenile justice system is designed for this person. Clearly disturbed, emotional issues, acting out, asshole parents who ignored everything. He basically painted “I’m a potential school shooter” on his forehead and these people bought him a gun. “Didn’t have a chance” applies.

In a sane world, the parents would be facing 1st degree murder and terrorism and the kid involuntary manslaughter as a juvy. 

That kid is a mentally disturbed child. His parents obviously were too stupid or just didn't care enough to be engaged in their Childs life. How could you not see the warnings signs ?  He was acting out if you believe what the teacher stated they saw at his school desk.

[Celery Man 20,943]

24 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Actually, yeah I think theres something to that and have had that theory for a while, especially as pertains to lower economic classes.

Middle class people producing services and intangible goods and therefore needing guns for their dicks and windmills to tilt at, po folks economically left behind completely leading to total malaise and all that comes with it.

[shadow_operative 15,932]

17 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Kids typically don’t get to that sociopathic state where they go out and want to kill others when they’ve had structured, disciplined, lifestyles typically that’s why.

 

 

You think that having a well structured upbringing prevents mental illness? seriously?

[Blotto 23,498]

On 12/2/2021 at 9:25 PM, atomheartbevo said:

But then I have an acquaintance who mainly goes between work at Dell  and his home in Cedar Park (subdivision where the houses start at $300,000), HEB and a few stores, and friends houses, and he has to be armed at all times.  Idiot got himself uninvited from our weekly Dungeons and Dragons/boardgames sessions in person because he wouldn't stop fucking bringing his sidearm into whoever's house it was being held at, and he had to make a fucking show of being armed, and made sure everybody saw him putting it on top of the fridge or in a cabinet. He made sure the kids saw it.  His fatass maybe thought it made him look cool or dangerous, but when you have to shift your belly fat to get to it, nobody's impressed.

Just to be clear, are we talking about a single shot or semi-automatic lightening bolt here? 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Blotto

[shadow_operative 15,932]

14 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

I get that you feel it should be different. But the evidence says that corporal punishment is actually associated with an increase in violent propensity and school shootings. It's also odd to me that you equate corporal punishment with a "structured, disciplined lifestyle." I don't see any reason why you couldn't have the latter without the former. 

What's ironic is that you imply I'm the one arguing in bad faith when you're the one that hasn't provided a shred of evidence to support your gut suspicion. I'm not the one being unreasonable right now, you are. And, if you would you provide any evidence to support your position, I'd be willing to reconsider mine. 

the guy you're responding to also just claimed that modern weapons have existed since the beginning of time, and that having strict parents prevents mental illness in kids, so...

[phdhorn 6,224]

10 hours ago, Brothahorn said:

Those fuckers deserve to hang right next to the shitty child they raised.

Well, one thing to appreciate, Detroit will be their last memory of the free world!  HA HA!

[956 Worldwide 34,710]

55 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

 

You think that having a well structured upbringing prevents mental illness? seriously?

I’ll get on board with this: a kid in a structured, attentive environment is more likely to get treatment and management of his mental illness instead of a gotdamn Sig Sauer.

[956 Worldwide 34,710]

1 hour ago, Bravo said:

there are deranged plenty of people in higher economic class so we are all screwed. top to bottom. mental health treatment and recognition is one of the biggest unaddressed problems we have in the US.

Lots of places have this issue, many with less recognition and fewer resources than us. But their mentally ill don’t shoot lots of people. Guess we will never know why.

[BrickHorn 18,230]

12 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

Well, one thing to appreciate, Detroit will be their last memory of the free world!  HA HA!

[EuroHorn 3,263]

2 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

 

This looks like characters  from the Netflix series “Dark”.  
 

Is the father the kid grown up and has traveled back from the future?  And the mom is really the daughter of the kid?

Edited December 4, 2021 by EuroHorn

[atomheartbevo 89,659]

2 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

 

Great Christmas present for the kid - a $500 Sig Sauer and prison.

[hayden_horn 11,362]

1 minute ago, atomheartbevo said:

Great Christmas present for the kid - a $500 Sig Sauer and prison.

prison for everybody!

[atomheartbevo 89,659]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

That kid is a mentally disturbed child. His parents obviously were too stupid or just didn't care enough to be engaged in their Childs life. How could you not see the warnings signs ?  He was acting out if you believe what the teacher stated they saw at his school desk.

His parents were very engaged with their kid's life.

His parents bought him a $500 pistol for Christmas and mom took him out shooting.

He gets caught looking at ammo in the classroom on his phone and him mom fucking texted him "LOL I’m not mad. You have to learn not to get caught."

Stupid, sure, but definitely engaged with their kid's life.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

What a tragedy. The dad bought a gun a week ago and now 4 young people are dead. Not buying the gun wouldn’t have solved whatever problems the son had going on, but there is no doubt those 4 would be alive today.

[atomheartbevo 89,659]

1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

You think that having a well structured upbringing prevents mental illness? seriously?

A well-structured upbringing would have caught the warning signs, and wouldn't have had his parents buying a troubled kid a pistol and mom texting him "LOL I’m not mad. You have to learn not to get caught" after a teacher catches him looking at ammo on his phone in the classroom.

It doesn't prevent mental illness, but it would help get a child the mental healthcare they obviously need, not make things much, much worse, and even set them up to do something horrible.

I have no idea what was going through these parents' minds, because they themselves seem mentally ill.  I can say that they seemed like they wanted to be his friend and not his parent.  The text message from the mom about not getting caught spoke volumes about their relationship.

[Celery Man 20,943]

5 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

A well-structured upbringing would have caught the warning signs, and wouldn't have had his parents buying a troubled kid a pistol and mom texting him "LOL I’m not mad. You have to learn not to get caught" after a teacher catches him looking at ammo on his phone in the classroom.

It doesn't prevent mental illness, but it would help get a child the mental healthcare they obviously need, not make things much, much worse, and even set them up to do something horrible.

I have no idea what was going through these parents' minds, because they themselves seem mentally ill.  I can say that they seemed like they wanted to be his friend and not his parent.  The text message from the mom about not getting caught spoke volumes about their relationship.

the structure or lack of structure is separate from the values present in the household, which is where you get buying a 15 year old kid who appears to be one limp bizkit album away from a school shooting a pistol and where you get the "the rules of society are for other people not us".

Touting "mental illness" is not a magic word (I'm not accusing you specifically or individually of that ahb) that abstracts the problem from everything that resembles normal middle class folks whose kids don't shoot up schools.

[Chewy's Hairy Horn 868]

2 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

 

It really pays to have your family Christmas photos done professionally.  Merry Christmas from the Crumbley family!

[RPM 26,319]

3 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

 

Darwin lost this round.

[Underdog 28,623]

The Brady Bunch reboot looks like it will suck.  

[Steel Shank 9,424]

3 hours ago, Bravo said:

there are deranged plenty of people in higher economic class so we are all screwed. top to bottom. mental health treatment and recognition is one of the biggest unaddressed problems we have in the US.

Your grammar is making me deranged.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

3 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

 

You think that having a well structured upbringing prevents mental illness? seriously?

Never said that.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

His parents were very engaged with their kid's life.

His parents bought him a $500 pistol for Christmas and mom took him out shooting.

He gets caught looking at ammo in the classroom on his phone and him mom fucking texted him "LOL I’m not mad. You have to learn not to get caught."

Stupid, sure, but definitely engaged with their kid's life.

And yet didn't see the signs of his mental issues ?  A teacher strolling by his desk saw it.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

1 hour ago, Bravo said:

Or just locking up the gun? I have kids and a few guns. All in a safe. Not even my wife knows the code. She would just shoot herself or the kids if she had to use it. 

Didn’t they buy the gun for the murderer? It wasn’t meant to be locked up from him.

[Steel Shank 9,424]

14 minutes ago, Bravo said:

typo. sorry from my phone. grammar police are out today. sweet.

Don't forget the Capitalization Squad!

[UTCzech III 2,907]

1 hour ago, Chewy's Hairy Horn said:

It really pays to have your family Christmas photos done professionally.  Merry Christmas from the Crumbley family!

 

[52-80 19,152]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Lots of places have this issue, many with less recognition and fewer resources than us. But their mentally ill don’t shoot lots of people. Guess we will never know why.

We have more video games

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,819]

29 minutes ago, UTCzech III said:

 

My, what a well adjusted family.   

[Chooky 13,307]

The mom has that look where an ankle monitor will feel like second nature to her. She was born for the ankle monitor. 

[Hawndoh 2,386]

58 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And yet didn't see the signs of his mental issues ?  A teacher strolling by his desk saw it.

They saw the same stuff, but to them it isn't mental issues. It aligns with their world view. 

[Hawndoh 2,386]

6 minutes ago, Bravo said:

nothing wrong buying a gun for a responsible HS kid who is sane. I bought a rifle for my 16 YO last yr. He does NOT have access to it though unless I am around.

I'm not even talking about just buying the gun. The mom alone already has several other data points in her social media that makes it seem the parents are just as f'd up as the kid is