3 killed, 8 injured in Michigan High School Shooting

[Jkwellborn 6,714]

 
These days you don't have to travel all over town to get explosive diarrhea.  One stop.  Boom.  You're a firehose.  

Are those still a thing? I think all of the ones around here have been separated.

[Helobious 9,464]

2 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Which one is dollar Target and which is dollar Walmart? Or is it a Waffle House/IHOP thing?

Dollar tree is the target of dollar stores. Dollar general is the walmart, family dollar is like the Kmart. I’m sad that I know that. 

[workswithseed 2,109]

4 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

What do you hunt with a handgun? Seriously. Boar? Rabbit? 

This one is for that strong, courageous @Biff Tannen. What an idiot you are.

 

 

[Guest Lobo]

Those are lovely mittens in that first video.  Do they make them for men?  

[Willfully Horn 8,041]

So, when hunting with handguns, are you not losing some certainty of a clean and quick kill? And, if so, how is that trade off considered acceptable?

What i mean is, when shooting targets, at any distance, a long-gun is more accurate than a handgun. I was raised to believe taking your prey with a single shot was the goal. What is it about using handguns that makes it okay to render the ultimate goal less certain?

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, I would think so.  In the that first video...the guy pops off 5 rounds and he only kills 1 hog.  Other one looked like it got away.  That guy doesn't look like he could chase down a wounded hog unless it was drenched in mayo.

[Pescado_Rojo 19,427]

2 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

So, when hunting with handguns, are you not losing some certainty of a clean and quick kill? And, if so, how is that trade off considered acceptable?

What i mean is, when shooting targets, at any distance, a long-gun is more accurate than a handgun. I was raised to believe taking your prey with a single shot was the goal. What is it about using handguns that makes it okay to render the ultimate goal less certain?

yea, but you can't pretend you're a Navy SEAL with some pussy bolt action. 

We have a hunter that comes out to the ranch and shoots a couple deer with a pistol every year. He's hunted all over North America with it, and taken some pretty nice game. The pistol is a Ruger in .454 Casull with a 7.5" barrel and an aimpoint red dot sight. He also has a set of shooting sticks and is very proficient with the gun out to 60-70 yards.  

Edited December 6, 2021 by Pescado_Rojo

[Jkwellborn 6,714]

So, when hunting with handguns, are you not losing some certainty of a clean and quick kill? And, if so, how is that trade off considered acceptable?
What i mean is, when shooting targets, at any distance, a long-gun is more accurate than a handgun. I was raised to believe taking your prey with a single shot was the goal. What is it about using handguns that makes it okay to render the ultimate goal less certain?

No one is hunting with a damn Hi point .380. I think that’s where some people are getting twisted with the handgun part. Hunting handguns have as much or more energy than some bows.

[TwiceHorn 31,513]

On 12/4/2021 at 7:59 PM, VABuckeye said:

But a handgun?  They aren’t used for hunting. 

I had the same thought.  There are uses for handguns that aren't defense or mayhem.  Shooting them accurately is a different challenge and skill than a rifle, than a shotgun.

If a kid had an interest in pistol target shooting, that would be a reasonable thing.  Or, maybe, if the family is already into pistol hunting.

[TwiceHorn 31,513]

54 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

yea, but you can't pretend you're a Navy SEAL with some pussy bolt action. 

We have a hunter that comes out to the ranch and shoots a couple deer with a pistol every year. He's hunted all over North America with it, and taken some pretty nice game. The pistol is a Ruger in .454 Casull with a 7.5" barrel and an aimpoint red dot sight. He also has a set of shooting sticks and is very proficient with the gun out to 60-70 yards.  

My experience with people that hunt with "oddball" arms, black powder, pistols, even bows and crossbows, are very experienced rifle hunters looking for another challenge and in some cases an "extended" season.

Most families that aren't already into "oddball" hunting probably wouldn't just up and buy a kid a pistol, other than a .22.  Maybe if s/he was interested the various pistol target disciplines.

Edited December 6, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Longhornstampede 3,185]

On 12/4/2021 at 7:07 AM, Onboard 2.0 said:

That kid is a mentally disturbed child. His parents obviously were too stupid or just didn't care enough to be engaged in their Childs life. How could you not see the warnings signs ?  He was acting out if you believe what the teacher stated they saw at his school desk.

Dad probably diddled the kid and let him have the gun out of guilt...

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,976]

On 12/2/2021 at 11:22 AM, immortal13 said:

Hilarious bro. After you're done emptying the clip, a grizzly will likely shove that .45 up your ass before he rips your head off. But please go fuck around and find out 

I believe you would be wrong.

https://www.ammoland.com/2021/06/handgun-or-pistol-against-bear-attacks-104-cases-97-effective/#axzz7EHgtn12C

[Fudge Nuggets 19,209]

20 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

Know a guy whose dad hunts with a spear.  Former special forces of some sort   Every other method bored him.  He’ll stalk an animal for days to get close enough.  Your brother seems like a pussy.

Your guy sounds like a dumbass.

[Baboontyme 2,815]

I want to say it was Thursday. After having the conversation about what happened, and having the realization set in that yes he could be murdered by a classmate, my 12 year old was sitting on the steps just staring off into space. There was lots of staring off into space. Bed time - eyes open, staring off into space. But sitting there on the steps he'd stare for awhile, then he would ask another question. "What are the families going to do?" "How could the parents let that happen?" etc etc

What got me though was when he said "When will we go back to feeling like normal? When we will start forgetting about this? Monday??"

My instinctive response that I said out loud "Yeah, unfortunately probably Monday"

"What do you mean?"

"Nevermind"

[Biff Tannen 45,695]

17 hours ago, workswithseed said:

This one is for that strong, courageous @Biff Tannen. What an idiot you are.

[gsoda3 3,274]

20 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

That'd make it more of a sport. That said, Pistol Guy is the only guy I know in my home area who hunts with one. The vast majority are squatting in stands sipping whiskey and watching TikTok videos while waiting for some semi-tame animal that has been fed corn half the season to walk up and discover that it is not a pet.

i have a friend, her dad has a bad shoulder and he hunts with a handgun (hog/deer) chambered in .45.  i asked if he'd ever try doves with a judge or something in 20 gauge and he hadn't.  i think it'd be fun.  i've got a .454 casull i mean to try on hogs one day but i don't shoot it so well. 

[XYZ 2,154]

Hunting talk on this thread is retarded.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,515]

I'm interested in hearing more facts or get educated on the law, but I don't feel that the school is criminally liable for what happened by either failing to search the killer or kick him out of school. At that point, did the school know whether the killer had access to a gun? In hindsight it's easy for them to have asked or searched him but was that a reasonable assumption at that time? What do most schools do in that circumstance?

[Guest Lobo]

2 hours ago, XYZ said:

Hunting talk on this thread is retarded.

Restricting his father's ability to buy a handgun for his son is directly correlated to our rights as hunters.  It's appropriate thread talk. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

6 hours ago, Baboontyme said:

I want to say it was Thursday. After having the conversation about what happened, and having the realization set in that yes he could be murdered by a classmate, my 12 year old was sitting on the steps just staring off into space. There was lots of staring off into space. Bed time - eyes open, staring off into space. But sitting there on the steps he'd stare for awhile, then he would ask another question. "What are the families going to do?" "How could the parents let that happen?" etc etc

What got me though was when he said "When will we go back to feeling like normal? When we will start forgetting about this? Monday??"

My instinctive response that I said out loud "Yeah, unfortunately probably Monday"

"What do you mean?"

"Nevermind"

Oh. Oh. This breaks my heart.

As parents, we talk about when children lose a piece of their innocence and how it comes to be. Sometimes slowly, sometimes abruptly, but they do come to the realization and a sense of the world around them and the people, good and bad, that inhabit it.

But this, this is just cruel what we've collectively allowed to happen to our youngest citizens. The unfortunate unexpected events are tragic: a parent falls ill and passes away, a child loses a friend in a car accident, but this? We turn away from this. We say, well the odds are low, or how it's necessary because of the way the Constitution has been twisted and turned until owning a gun has become tied up with so much emotion that it somehow cannot be touched with anything less than reverence for an ideal that no one is sure what meaning is to be made of it.

No parent wants their child to be the lonely orphan in the story: the one who has to undergo unspeakable tragedy in order to fulfill the destiny that makes him or her a hero. Those stories were written for children to understand that despite the circumstances, life goes on and one has to have hope. Children identify in their own ways, large and small, with the heroines and heroes of these stories and it can help them cope with whatever comes their way. But those are stories and when real life blunt and ugly is staring at them, it shatters the beautiful window that children see the world through so callously that it is forever heartbreaking.

I'm so sorry that you've had this on your shoulders and his. Have courage that the two of you can be a force for change.

"The average American will meet 10,000 people in their lifetime. That’s a lot of folks. But, if every one of you changed the lives of just 10 people — and each one of those folks changed the lives of another 10 people — just 10 — then in five generations — 125 years — the class of 2014 will have changed the lives of 800 million people." --- retired Admiral William H. McRaven in the 2014 University of Texas commencement address

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Mrs Whiggins

[Underdog 28,755]

On 12/5/2021 at 3:21 PM, Chooky said:

 

 

These days you don't have to travel all over town to get explosive diarrhea.  One stop.  Boom.  You're a firehose.  

2, 1 

[Gene Parmesan 4,008]

I smash a $10 tastemaker probably once a month. 

[Guest Lobo]

1 minute ago, Gene Parmesan said:

I smash a $10 tastemaker probably once a month. 

I smashed your mom's tastemaker last month for way less than $10.  

Dammit, I had something for this.

[atomheartbevo 89,759]

On 12/5/2021 at 1:22 PM, Chooky said:

And they're starting to do this now:

......

"Oh.  The red side?"

"Yes.  The red side.  I don't fuck with the green side.  If you see any green side bastards shoot them on sight."

"I'm actually ambivalent to either the red or green.  I'm kind of a centrist."

"Then lose my number and watch your back.  A fence sitter is the same as a green sider in my eyes.  Lead, follow or get out of the way."

 

 

[d2o 1,602]

19 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I'm interested in hearing more facts or get educated on the law, but I don't feel that the school is criminally liable for what happened by either failing to search the killer or kick him out of school. At that point, did the school know whether the killer had access to a gun? In hindsight it's easy for them to have asked or searched him but was that a reasonable assumption at that time? What do most schools do in that circumstance?

Given they told his parents that he needed to seek counseling he should have been sent home until he got it.   The school should not have known that he had a gun (his parents should have at least inquired) but there is not rational reason for given his behavior for him to just go back to class after that meeting with his parents.    Maybe I'm naive but a terroristic threat  should warrant time off every single time.

[TriStone 1,724]

On 12/5/2021 at 2:21 PM, Chooky said:

  

 

 

[scottsins 1,968]

Given they told his parents that he needed to seek counseling he should have been sent home until he got it.   The school should not have known that he had a gun (his parents should have at least inquired) but there is not rational reason for given his behavior for him to just go back to class after that meeting with his parents.    Maybe I'm naive but a terroristic threat  should warrant time off every single time.

I’m still catching up…what was the terroristic threat?

[d2o 1,602]

36 minutes ago, scottsins said:

I’m still catching up…what was the terroristic threat?

He was sitting in class drawing pics of people being shot with something along the lines of "the thoughts won't stop"   and "help me".    It may have been indirect in the sense that he didnt threaten a specific person but it was clearly menacing and warranted him not being there.   If he needed to starting seeing a shrink, he needed to do it before he was allowed back into school after being cleared.

[tigol 2,399]

That'd make it more of a sport. That said, Pistol Guy is the only guy I know in my home area who hunts with one. The vast majority are squatting in stands sipping whiskey and watching TikTok videos while waiting for some semi-tame animal that has been fed corn half the season to walk up and discover that it is not a pet.

That is incredibly accurate.

[crash_davis 23,114]

video of shooter a year ago. says he hit his head but i didn't see anything to confirm he hit his head on anything. the bigger question is why was he so fucked up to begin with? drunk, at work?

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

40 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

video of shooter a year ago. says he hit his head but i didn't see anything to confirm he hit his head on anything. the bigger question is why was he so fucked up to begin with? drunk, at work?

They're suggesting nitrous oxide in the comments not alcohol but there are a number of things that can cause one to stagger and stumble like that besides chemicals. Really hard to say without more information. He really ought to have a full physical/mental evaluation while in custody.

[Celery Man 20,981]

To be fair it would be weird to be sober while working back of house

[Baboontyme 2,815]

I don't know how I feel about this. I'm conflicted. Obviously empathetic for the family. No idea what the insurance situation is like and if the district would have to pay out of pocket, or who would be financially culpable exactly. Also Feiger is a local ambulance chasing scumbag. He was the guy who made his name defending Jack Kevorkian if I recall back to my middle school days. 

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2021/12/09/oxford-high-shooting-lawsuit-riley-franz-family-school-district/6441764001/

[Incredulity 11,679]

27 minutes ago, Baboontyme said:

I don't know how I feel about this. I'm conflicted. Obviously empathetic for the family. No idea what the insurance situation is like and if the district would have to pay out of pocket, or who would be financially culpable exactly. Also Feiger is a local ambulance chasing scumbag. He was the guy who made his name defending Jack Kevorkian if I recall back to my middle school days. 

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2021/12/09/oxford-high-shooting-lawsuit-riley-franz-family-school-district/6441764001/

In a layman's perception the violent behavior parent/administrator meeting the day of shooting seems quite bad for the district.  I would assume the district wouldn't be remotely able to pay a 100MM judgement.  Also, I highly doubtful there are "school shooting" insurance policies available at anything approaching an affordable cost, based on the last 20 years.

[freyguy 4,282]

Since no government entity is doing anything proactive about school shootings, what else can parents do?  Sue the fuck out of everybody until change happens...

[atomheartbevo 89,759]

On 12/9/2021 at 10:36 AM, Baboontyme said:

I don't know how I feel about this. I'm conflicted. Obviously empathetic for the family. No idea what the insurance situation is like and if the district would have to pay out of pocket, or who would be financially culpable exactly.

On 12/9/2021 at 11:08 AM, Incredulity said:

In a layman's perception the violent behavior parent/administrator meeting the day of shooting seems quite bad for the district.  I would assume the district wouldn't be remotely able to pay a 100MM judgement.  Also, I highly doubtful there are "school shooting" insurance policies available at anything approaching an affordable cost, based on the last 20 years.

Speaking of that....Throne is the superintendent, Wolf is the principal.  Wolf emailed parents a few weeks before the shooting, saying that the threats on social media were "exaggerated rumors".

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/09/us/oxford-school-shooting-lawsuit/index.html

Quote

The parents of two Oxford High School students are suing school officials, claiming last week's fatal school shootings in Michigan were "entirely preventable," and that the defendants "created and increased the dangers then-existing at Oxford High School."

Quote

The Franzes allege Throne and Wolf disregarded threatening messages posted to social media by Crumbley, 15.

They further allege that the school teachers and counselors did not report Crumbley's behavior to the school safety liaison officer and that Wolf, Moore, both counselors, one teacher and a staff member excluded the officer in meetings with Crumbley and his parents.

Quote

Riley Franz was among the injured students and was shot in the neck, according to the suit. Bella Franz was not shot but watched as her sister was shot, the suit says. 

Quote

On November 16 -- two weeks before the school shooting -- "multiple concerned parents provided communications" to Wolf "with concerns about threats to students made on social media," the lawsuit alleges, without specifying the source of the alleged threats.

Quote

The Franzes allege Throne and Wolf assured parents and students that the children were safe at the high school, and discouraged them from discussing or sharing the posts.

"That same day, November 16, 2021, Wolf emailed parents indicating, 'I know I'm being redundant here, but there is absolutely no threat at the HS ... large assumptions were made from a few social media posts, then the assumptions evolved into exaggerated rumors,'" court documents say.

 

 

[freyguy 4,282]

that's not gonna turn out well for the district....

[Incredulity 11,679]

Yeah, that seems very bad.  Hard to believe a school administrator could take that position in today’s day and age.  
 

Frankly , I empathize with administrators having to deal with untold number of these type of situations(social media bullshit).  Still think the line up of facts here is catastrophic.  Assuming there is no statutory decreased liability for the district,

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

On 12/9/2021 at 3:23 PM, freyguy said:

Since no government entity is doing anything proactive about school shootings, what else can parents do?

Teenage Fight Club

[WhatTheBuck 28,794]

On 12/9/2021 at 11:36 AM, Baboontyme said:

He was the guy who made his name defending Jack Kevorkian

What’s wrong with that? 

[Sandman 3,405]

On 12/10/2021 at 6:46 PM, atomheartbevo said:

On November 16 -- two weeks before the school shooting -- "multiple concerned parents provided communications" to Wolf "with concerns about threats to students made on social media," the lawsuit alleges, without specifying the source of the alleged threats.

I'm not blaming the parents but did they contact the police about this? If some guy is on FB threatening to do some violence at work, I'm not gonna call his boss, I'm calling the cops and filing a report of some kind. IDGAF if it's a kid, a hot chick or an old man, I'm making some noise about it.

[tchookem 3,905]

that's not gonna turn out well for the district....

As someone who had been giving the school the benefit of the doubt through this whole thread, I agree. That's all pretty damning.

[Guest Lobo]

There enlies the problem.

[Baboontyme 2,815]

Interesting article behind the paywall in the Freep today on 6 year old Crumbley and his shithead parents. Goddamn, it feels like the parents are almost more culpable than the kid. 

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2023/03/29/ethan-crumbley-childhood-neighbor-oxford-school-shooting/70046341007/

Ethan Crumbley's fate 'haunts' former neighbor after Oxford shooting

Tresa Baldas

Detroit Free Press

 

Hear this story

View Comments

 

 

 

 

1:01

6:57

 

For more than a year, Suzanne Jinerson has agonized about the sad boy who lived next door to her on Walters Lake in Clarkston.

His name was Ethan Crumbley.

He was about 6 when she met him, an aloof boy who rarely left the house or played with the neighborhood kids, Jinerson recalled. She never saw him laugh or smile, except for the one time she snapped a photo of him fishing with her son and another boy, she said. Sometimes, he would wander over to her house because his parents had left him home alone, she said, and he was afraid to be by himself.

"He was never, ever OK — and I honestly believe he could have been," Jinerson said of the boy whose fate weighs heavily on her mind and heart.

The boy grew up to be a school shooter.

"This haunts me, big time," Jinerson said. "I will always wonder, 'What else could we have done?'"

It's a gut-churning experience more and more Americans live with as mass shootings proliferate. Nashville on Monday. Memphis on Feb. 19, less than a week after three students were killed at Michigan State University. The Gun Violence Archive has counted 130 U.S. mass shootings in 2023 after more than 600 last year. After each, friends, relatives, classmates and coworkers of the shooters face the pain of wondering what else, what if, why?

 

'He did not have to turn out that way'

Jinerson, 60, a retired officer with the U.S. Air Force who now lives in Texas, has spent the last 16 months tormented by the story of Ethan Crumbley, who is 16 now and behind bars awaiting sentencing for the mass shooting at Oxford High School that left four students dead and seven others injured. He carried out the 2021 massacre using a gun his parents bought him as an early Christmas present — a gift that would lead to involuntary manslaughter charges against the parents for their alleged roles in the shooting.

Jinerson was working in Dallas when she learned about the tragedy — and the shooter's identity.

"I was floored. I cried. Because I knew," Jinerson said, struggling to relay the thoughts she has kept to herself since the shooting.

"It sounds terrible. And I don't want to say it's not his fault — but it's not his fricking fault," Jinerson said. "I just know with all my heart he did not have to turn out that way."

That's why she is speaking out now.

"I need people to understand that this was a 6-year-old boy at one time," Jinerson said. "I know he's quote-unquote a monster for doing what he did, and I'm not trying to excuse it."

 

After staying quiet for more than a year, Jinerson is compelled to share her memories of the boy she wished she could have saved — the boy who lived next door to her for a year, came over for barbecues, went fishing with her husband and son, and skied with her family.

But Ethan was a troubled and lonely boy who needed help, she said. And people need to pay attention to the Ethans of the world, she stressed.

"I think of all the other kids who are out there, who people aren't paying attention to," Jinerson said. "I want them to pay attention. Pay attention to what's going on in your neighborhood."

More:Parents of gunman to stand trial in Oxford school shooting, Michigan appeals court orders

More:New Oxford shooting detail: Killer texted mom 'I love you' 10 minutes before attack

'They seemed nice enough'

Jinerson's comments follow a major development in the novel criminal case against James and Jennifer Crumbley, who are the first parents in America charged in a mass school shooting. Jinerson reached out to the Free Press after the Michigan Court of Appeals last week ordered the Crumbleys to stand trial on involuntary manslaughter charges, concluding the tragedy was "reasonably foreseeable" and therefore the charges were warranted.

Jinerson, a military mom who raised three sons and describes herself as "very Second Amendment," said she's "thrilled" that the parents were charged. Her husband added of Ethan: "He shouldn't have had a gun, plain and simple."

 

In an exclusive interview with the Free Press, the Jinersons talked about the year they lived next door to the Crumbleys on Lakeview Boulevard, where they moved in March of 2013. The Crumbleys were already there. James Crumbley worked from home in information technology and his wife was studying for her real estate license.

Among Jinerson's first memories of the Crumbleys was the dad helping her when she locked herself out of the house. She asked James Crumbley for help, she said, and he used a credit card to open her door and let her in.

"They seemed nice enough, " Jinerson recalled. "They invited us over for wine and dinner on their patio. We met Ethan. Ethan was very shy."

How young Ethan Crumbley behaved in the neighborhood

Jinerson's husband had few interactions with Ethan, but thought something was off.

"As soon as I met him I told my wife, 'There is something wrong,'" Jeff Jinerson recalled. "He never looked anyone in the eye."

According to the Jinersons, the Crumbleys did not let their son socialize with other children in the neighborhood, where Ethan was the youngest of five boys on the block, ages 6-10. Jinerson said Ethan went outside only if his parents were with him, and recalled pleading with Jennifer Crumbley to let her son go fishing with her son and husband "and be a kid for a day."

 

Two months after the Jinersons moved in, Ethan went fishing with the new neighbors and another boy. Eight months later, Ethan would go skiing with the Jinersons at Pine Knob, and then out to dinner with them some weeks later at Buffalo Wild Wings — though the night ended on a sour note.

Jinerson said the Crumbleys got so drunk that they ended the outing early.

According to the Jinersons, the Crumbleys often left Ethan home alone at night when they went out socializing, and punished him if he wandered over to neighbors' houses when they were away.

 

"They would go out and drink and leave him home alone," Jinerson said, echoing allegations from Oakland County prosecutors. "He was scared. He would come over to my house and say, 'I can't be here because I'm going to get into trouble.'"

The Crumbleys' attorneys, who along with prosecutors are barred by the court from speaking publicly about the case, have said in filings that prosecutors have unfairly characterized the parents.

"At the end of the day, (Ethan) was cared for and loved by his parents," defense attorneys argued in a September filing. "They sent him to summer school, summer camps and took family vacations. They attended parent-teacher conferences and emailed with teachers about their son."

More:Crumbleys seek lower bond again: We never tried to flee. We can prove it.

More:Oxford school officials: Ethan Crumbley's parents never refused to take him home

Jinerson said she ended up having a falling out with Jennifer Crumbley.

Jinerson said she was concerned that Ethan was spending so much time indoors with no friends that she offered to babysit him for free so he could play with her then 12-year-old son.

But Jennifer Crumbley wouldn't hear of it, she said.

"We got in a huge fight over Ethan’s welfare — a seriously bad argument," Jinerson recalled. "We never spoke again after that ... We all knew Ethan wasn’t OK. I never felt more powerless."

The Crumbleys moved from the neighborhood in March 2014. Another seven-plus years would pass before the Jinersons heard the name Ethan Crumbley again.

'I will never forget that phone call'

When the Oxford school shooting first made the news, Jinerson initially didn't recognize the shooter's face on the TV news. She was too concerned about the loss of life, the traumatized students and the fact that a tragedy of this magnitude had struck Oxford — a community she enjoyed, having dined there and where she had ridden her motorcycle.

Then the phone rang.

It was her stepdaughter from Michigan.

"She said, 'Suzanne, do you realize who that is? Oh, my God. It's Ethan, Ethan Crumbley,'" Jinerson recalled of the conversation.

"I'll never forget that phone call," she said, noting the memories of young Ethan came flooding back.

"Ethan didn't have a prayer as a child," she said, adding: "As I mentioned earlier, I don't know what we could have done differently."

Tresa Baldas: tbaldas@freepress.com

[Deej 76,860]

4 hours ago, Baboontyme said:

She never saw him laugh or smile, except for the one time she snapped a photo of him fishing

He was smiling because he got to kill a fish. 

[fattyflattie 4,638]

Hope the parents get the maximum.  Fuck them.  

[Foosters 17,860]

What's really sad is these happen so often I have no recollection of this one. Just like a year from now I'll have forgotten Nashville. Because there will be several more between now and then. Greatest country in the world.