3 killed, 8 injured in Michigan High School Shooting

[conVINCEd 21469]

4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Nope, can't bring a flask to her school.  Or peanuts.  Or the compendium works of Balzac and Rabelais.  But you can sure as shit come heavy with an AR-15 as is our god-given right!

Wife is a teacher, believe me, I get it.

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

15 minutes ago, Lobo said:

We both agree.  I'm just frustrated, as per usual.  Father Patrol seems like something I'd do, but would invariably terrify the shit out of my daughter...

"Daddy, are you at my school today to see my show & tell, or tell my class about your job for career day, or bring my hot lunch, or do soccer drills with us at P.E., or help with Spanish Enrichment, or.......?????"

"No sweetie, I'm here today to make sure you don't get shot to death.  And to make sure the other dads get to go hunting.  And if you can't see the connection between the two...welcome to the fucking club.  Hallelujah.  Holy shit.  Where's the cocktail situation at your school?"  

No shortage of mom’s in yoga pants whiling the day away with bottles of wine. I’m sure they’d include you if you have any Mr. Mom game. 
 

We had to have the talk with our daughter about there being bad people in the world who will hurt her for no fault of her own. It bothered her for about two days and then she moved on.

Kinda the same discussion about why she has to stay in sight at the park or not just run wild at some trampoline park while he parents obliviously surf the web. She knows we watch her all the time, and the reasons why. We live in a nice area, but child predators are real. Shitty world we live in. 
 

My mom still lives in a Mayberry like place where she doesn’t lock her car or her house and it’s not a problem. Those are few and far between anymore. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Bobby_Batronic

[crash_davis 23108]

12 minutes ago, Hate said:

Agreed.  What should be done?  And don't start with the outlaw guns because that is not going to happen and we all know it.  I'm not saying "do nothing" for those dumb cunts that like to dry hump legs like a stupid fucking dog, but what can legitimately be done?   I say this as a parent of a 13 year old that thinks about these kinds of things every day as I drop off my son at school.  I'd love for there to be a real solution for this.

This country's fascination with guns is mind boggling. I have absolutely no issues giving up my guns if doing so prevents just one school shooting. But I am the minority. So yea, start with banning guns. And then make any crimes involving guns a life or death sentence offense. And if a kid gets access to his parent's guns and commits a school shooting, then the parent faces the same charges as the kid, life or death sentence.

This gets guns off the streets and gets rid of hard criminals. 

It's an idea, but I'm sure we can meet somewhere in the middle.

[mchookem 16330]

19 minutes ago, Hate said:

Agreed.  What should be done?  And don't start with the outlaw guns because that is not going to happen and we all know it.  I'm not saying "do nothing" for those dumb cunts that like to dry hump legs like a stupid fucking dog, but what can legitimately be done?   I say this as a parent of a 13 year old that thinks about these kinds of things every day as I drop off my son at school.  I'd love for there to be a real solution for this.

you've answered your own question.

more specifically...

1 hour ago, Baboontyme said:

This country is fucked because time and again, Americans are willing to put self over community. 

^that is the core of our American DNA, bred into each of us since birth. as a great American poet and lyricist recently said, "ain't nooobody gonna tell me how to liiive!" 😒

[TXSG8R 3362]

47 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

If time permits. I don’t even know if it’s a thing, but do all classroom doors open inward? I seem to recall many of them opened outward as a kid, but that’s back when the odd T Rex might poke it’s head through the classroom window. 

Yea, good point.  Ensure teachers desks are bigger than the door I guess, and teach kids how to set up a proper rugby scrum to keep that bitch locked in place.

If only there was some other way to keep kids from school shootings other than coming up with Rude Goldberg safety processes.  Guess we will never know. 

[Guest Lobo]

4 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Kinda the same discussion about why she has to stay in sight at the park or not just run wild at some trampoline park while he parents obliviously surf the web. She knows we watch her all the time, and the reasons why. We live in a nice area, but child predators are real. Shitty world we live in. 

Shit, child predators should scare me more, but they don't.  Our children are 10x more likely to be assaulted/molested/abducted by a relative/coach/priest/neighbor/family friend than they are by some random dude in a van near the park/strip mall.  Sadly, if a child has been molested and the assailant not caught, odds are heavy that the parent knows the person who did it and they smile at the family like nothing has happened.  

But the country crossed the Rubicon awhile back.  Our children are now more likely to be killed by a gun than they are to be abducted by a stranger.  We were taught to fear the van and the stranger with candy.  But in reality, it's the gun next door or the deranged kid in school or the AR-15 packing sociopath in the Mall that is statistically far more likely to bring harm to our children.  Just basic maths, which I know are out of favor right now.  

 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

13 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

No shortage of mom’s in yoga pants whiling the day away with bottles of wine

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

5 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

only there was some other way to keep kids from school shootings other than coming up with Rude Goldberg safety processes.  Guess we will never know. 

Well, as someone above noted, the guns aren’t going away. You may or may not like that premise, but it’s reality. If you accept that as the way things are then the only thing left is how to identify people that we can’t allow to have them. 

[TXSG8R 3362]

Biggest piece of advice I’d give to any parent having these talks with their kids is to stay as far away as possible from any fights. You see a fight, or shit ramping up to a fight, you get the fuck out. You don’t start recording with your phones. At this point there has to be a double digit % chance that someone will pull a weapon.  
 

Also, be a snitch. You see a kid being bullied, you tell someone.  You hear about a fight after school, snitch that shit out. Parents, help them be a snitch. Follow up with a call to the admin about someone getting bullied. Get the shit on their radar. If the kid is worried about being outed as a snitch have them text you and then you call that shit in. I would love for kids to figure out how to process and navigate conflict and hostility, but these days it’s likely going to end with blood, so fuck that. You snitch, because the alternative is someone getting shot.

I would also stay the hell away from a SRO at all times. If a shooter wants to inflict maximum damage he’s taking that guy down first.

[Sbbruin 21850]

22 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

My mom still lives in a Mayberry like place where she doesn’t lock her car or her house and it’s not a problem. Those are few and far between anymore. 

Where is this Utopia?  Oh, and is it true Mayberry (i.e. white as the pure driven snow)?

[crash_davis 23108]

7 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Where is this Utopia?  Oh, and is it true Mayberry (i.e. white as the pure driven snow)?

it's probably in the middle of nowhere where no one except old people want to live because there's absolutely nothing to do.

[Helobious 9449]

3 hours ago, Lobo said:

i think the procedure is just fine.  I'm glad it's in place.  But there have been a few school shootings where the shooter had access to keys/keycards. 

Link? I can’t think of one instance where a school shooter killed a master key holder or stole a key & used it to access anything. I really doubt it’s ever happened. It just doesn’t make sense and is impractical. 

[Sbbruin 21850]

7 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

it's probably in the middle of nowhere where no one except old people want to live because there's absolutely nothing to do.

As long as Raif Hollister or Jubel Foster have their stills going, I'd be all good.

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

17 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Where is this Utopia?  Oh, and is it true Mayberry (i.e. white as the pure driven snow)?

Down south of Houston a ways. Definitely not Lilly white. Probably halfish white, large percentage of Hispanics and maybe 10-15% black/other. A quiet town where a lot of people who worked at some of the plants on the coast live/d. That’s changing as there’s a ton of construction going on at those plants, real estate is getting pricey in the towns immediately serving them and people are willing to drive another 15 minutes for affordable housing. But for now it’s that place. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Bobby_Batronic

[Guest Lobo]

1 minute ago, Helobious said:

Link? I can’t think of one instance where a school shooter killed a master key holder or stole a key & used it to access anything. I really doubt it’s ever happened. It just doesn’t make sense and is impractical. 

Know what else doesn't make any sense and is impractical?  Kids with guns.  

I can't find the link I was thinking about.  But there have been 138 school shootings in the United States.  Statistically speaking, one of those involved a shooter using keys on one occasion.  But as others have said, I'm glad we are discussing "Key Control" as a nation in these violent times.  I like that we continue to address every single thing except the weapons being used.  

[TXSG8R 3362]

39 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Well, as someone above noted, the guns aren’t going away. You may or may not like that premise, but it’s reality. If you accept that as the way things are then the only thing left is how to identify people that we can’t allow to have them. 

We are a nation of cowards, I fully recognize that. A former penal colony had the balls to do what we won’t after seeing their kids killed by gun violence. There is no precognition way to identify shooters, so that’s just another deflection around the core issue. There was an armed SRO at this school, still had kids get shot. There was an armed SRO at Parkland too. Short of an armed officer per classroom standing at low ready, there’s no way to protect schools with more guns. The answer is restricting gun access, but again, we are cowards. I know it’s not a guaranteed solution, but we won’t even try the obvious one, because /insert CR here.

[bolverk 29671]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

Agreed.  What should be done?  And don't start with the outlaw guns because that is not going to happen and we all know it.  I'm not saying "do nothing" for those dumb cunts that like to dry hump legs like a stupid fucking dog, but what can legitimately be done?   I say this as a parent of a 13 year old that thinks about these kinds of things every day as I drop off my son at school.  I'd love for there to be a real solution for this.

What I'm going to say won't have any effect on the guns that are already out there -- but that shouldn't piss off the 2nd amendment crowd -- is requiring all future guns have some sort of biometric sensor that ensures only the actual legal gunowner can fire a weapon. It's not much, granted. But, barring any other intrusive measures, I don't know what to say. At the very least, Johnny wouldn't be able to swipe his daddy's weapons to commit mass murder unbeknownst to his parents.

Otherwise, we start getting into confiscatory measures.

[TXSG8R 3362]

24 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Know what else doesn't make any sense and is impractical?  Kids with guns.  

I can't find the link I was thinking about.  But there have been 138 school shootings in the United States.  Statistically speaking, one of those involved a shooter using keys on one occasion.  But as others have said, I'm glad we are discussing "Key Control" as a nation in these violent times.  I like that we continue to address every single thing except the weapons being used.  

Sandy hook is close, he shot through a window to open the main security door before  going on his rampage. They didn’t have a classroom door locking protocol at that time AFAIK, but it’s pretty easy to guess that Lanza would have taken that into account if it was in place. He planned around the main security door and knew he would be in the main office.  First person he killed was the principal.  

It’s still a good protocol because taking the time to open doors buys more time, but it’s still a speed bump. 

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

14 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

We are a nation of cowards, I fully recognize that. A former penal colony had the balls to do what we won’t after seeing their kids killed by gun violence. There is no precognition way to identify shooters, so that’s just another deflection around the core issue. There was an armed SRO at this school, still had kids get shot. There was an armed SRO at Parkland too. Short of an armed officer per classroom standing at low ready, there’s no way to protect schools with more guns. The answer is restricting gun access, but again, we are cowards. I know it’s not a guaranteed solution, but we won’t even try the obvious one, because /insert CR here.

Australia’s Covid response is precisely why you won’t see “cowards” flock to the ban guns banner. 

Your premise also assumes that we can “just try it”. Yeah, they’re not giving the guns back once they get turned in. Not how government works. 

There is no way to precog a shooter, but there are clearly individuals with either former criminal backgrounds or mental issues who need not have access to a gun. 

Calling anyone who disagrees with you on a subject a coward probably isn’t your strongest play for conversational purposes btw. 

There are probably quite a few steps in between what we have now and a disarmed society. Maybe start with those. 

[TXSG8R 3362]

10 minutes ago, bolverk said:

What I'm going to say won't have any effect on the guns that are already out there -- but that shouldn't piss off the 2nd amendment crowd -- is requiring all future guns have some sort of biometric sensor that ensures only the actual legal gunowner can fire a weapon. It's not much, granted. But, barring any other intrusive measures, I don't know what to say. At the very least, Johnny wouldn't be able to swipe his daddy's weapons to commit mass murder unbeknownst to his parents.

Otherwise, we start getting into confiscatory measures.

Someone posted upthread that the gun owner should be responsible for crimes committed with their gun. I completely agree and it’s a good first step.  I also think gun owners should be required to have gun locks/gun safes with the purchase of a firearm.

Tie it to mandatory insurance.  Make owners prove they are safe gun owners or pay out to match their level of risk. I own X long guns and my safe capacity matches that. It’s biometric so I get x discount over something easier for a kid to work through. Kids in the house? Higher premium.  If we can’t take guns away we have to put up actual guard rails to keep shit safer. Right now it’s purely reactive and not effective.

[TXSG8R 3362]

3 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Australia’s Covid response is precisely why you won’t see “cowards” flock to the ban guns banner. 

Your premise also assumes that we can “just try it”. Yeah, they’re not giving the guns back once they get turned in. Not how government works. 

There is no way to precog a shooter, but there are clearly individuals with either former criminal backgrounds or mental issues who need not have access to a gun. 

Calling anyone who disagrees with you on a subject a coward probably isn’t your strongest play for conversational purposes btw. 

There are probably quite a few steps in between what we have now and a disarmed society. Maybe start with those. 

Uh, that’s a strange leap in logic.  I’m not advocating that we take guns away, because that’s impossible in this country. But we also won’t do anything to restrict access, which makes us cowards. That’s not mud slinging, I’m including myself in that because it’s our failure as a country. 
 

https://www.statista.com/chart/13998/school-shootings-per-country-2009/
 

 

Thoughts and prayers aren’t cutting it. 

 

[atomheartbevo 89659]

2 hours ago, TXSG8R said:

Compartmentalizing is the only thing schools can really do.  There are just too many variables at play with buildings that were designed to be schools, not fortresses. 

Sadly some schools are now being designed with school shooters in mind.  I have a cousin who teaches at one.  Not going to get into details, but yeah, this is now a thing for some districts with new schools.

[TXSG8R 3362]

3 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Sadly some schools are now being designed with school shooters in mind.  I have a cousin who teaches at one.  Not going to get into details, but yeah, this is now a thing for some districts with new schools.

That’s not surprising at all, but it’s still going to be a 50% solution at best. A smart shooter can just pull the fire alarm and fill a hallway with targets. We are twisting ourselves into knots trying to work around the core issue. 

[atomheartbevo 89659]

1 hour ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Kinda the same discussion about why she has to stay in sight at the park or not just run wild at some trampoline park while he parents obliviously surf the web. She knows we watch her all the time, and the reasons why. We live in a nice area, but child predators are real. Shitty world we live in. 

People kidnapping kids at random is pretty rare - the media blows up every attempt/kidnapping into something major, but the reality is that she is in far more danger from some asshole blowing through a stop sign or red light (while on their phone) while she's crossing the street than she is from a stranger.

And if there is a kidnapping, the vast majority have to do with non-custodial parents/relatives (think nasty divorces). Molestation - most likely going to be a relative/family friend/coach/church person/etc. who grooms them versus some dude walking up and doing it (regardless of what the media puts out there).

I'm not saying ignore your kids, depends on your neighborhood. I take my kids to our neighborhood park (or school's playground) multiple times a week, and have been for the last 8 years or so that our oldest has been able to go, and never had any problems with anybody, but I can't go two weeks without seeing some shithead blow through a stop sign either on the way, or one of the stop signs at the park.

Edited December 1, 2021 by atomheartbevo

[conVINCEd 21469]

5 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Sadly some schools are now being designed with school shooters in mind.  I have a cousin who teaches at one.  Not going to get into details, but yeah, this is now a thing for some districts with new schools.

Wife teaches at one where that was a consideration.  New school is a metric fuckton more secure than her old one.  

[mchookem 16330]

re: kidnapping...the one thing i drilled into my niece's head from like age 2 on was FIGHT...scream, kick, bite, scratch, anything just FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT. because if you get in a car you're dead. 

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

3 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

That’s not surprising at all, but it’s still going to be a 50% solution at best. A smart shooter can just pull the fire alarm and fill a hallway with targets. We are twisting ourselves into knots trying to work around the core issue. 

Correct.  And even if you design a perfect shooter-proof campus, any kid could still murder at least dozens of kids at any school in the country if he just posted up outside after the bell rings for the end of the day.

There's no way to perfectly plan around this as long as we continue our obsession with guns.

[Baboontyme 2810]

A 4th victim has passed. 17 year old kid. Fuck me. I'm crying right now. Fuck this shit. 

[52-80 19153]

1 hour ago, TXSG8R said:

Biggest piece of advice I’d give to any parent having these talks with their kids is to stay as far away as possible from any fights. ..

Also, be a snitch. You see a kid being bullied, you tell someone....You snitch, because the alternative is someone getting shot.

You know it'd be much smarter if you told your kids to befriend the bullied kids to get on their exempt list.

[atomheartbevo 89659]

3 minutes ago, mchookem said:

re: kidnapping...the one thing i drilled into my niece's head from like age 2 on was FIGHT...scream, kick, bite, scratch, anything just FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT. because if you get in a car you're dead. 

Yep.  Thankfully in the day and age of mobile phones, it's a helluva lot riskier for the sickos.

I'm old enough to remember the impact that Adam Walsh's kidnapping/beheading had - cable news had just come into its own, and holy crap they were blasting that all over the nation, scaring parents everywhere.  

And I wasn't far off from his age, and was frequently dropped off at malls back in the 1980s, but as hard as my parents tried, I always found my way home.

[atomheartbevo 89659]

Just now, 52-80 said:

You know it'd be much smarter if you told your kids to befriend the bullied kids to get on their exempt list.

[Helobious 9449]

58 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

We are a nation of cowards, I fully recognize that. A former penal colony had the balls to do what we won’t after seeing their kids killed by gun violence. There is no precognition way to identify shooters, so that’s just another deflection around the core issue. There was an armed SRO at this school, still had kids get shot. There was an armed SRO at Parkland too. Short of an armed officer per classroom standing at low ready, there’s no way to protect schools with more guns. The answer is restricting gun access, but again, we are cowards. I know it’s not a guaranteed solution, but we won’t even try the obvious one, because /insert CR here.

A lot of people don’t know that there was an armed SRO at Columbine as well, that briefly exchanged fire with Harris only a few minutes after the massacre began. But due to the protocol at the time, he did not pursue them into the school and only made sure they couldn’t escape.

[52-80 19153]

36 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

There are probably quite a few steps in between what we have now and a disarmed society. Maybe start with those. 

Yup.  There'll never be inroads until people accept all of these simultaneously:

* People won't give up their existing guns

* Gun count will never go to zero

* Europe and the other cited fantasy lands are not gun-free (nor accident free)

* Other countries with stringent gun laws aren't gun-free (hellllo Mexico)

* US school shooting is a byproduct of BOTH the local availability of guns, AND its culture ("im aggrieved, ill shoot them"); not exclusively the domain of just one. 

Instead of calling for "bans" or demonizing certain types of weapons (multi fatality shootings rarely involve AR rifles), a decent target and place to start is just to reduce the overall gun count.  The US sells something like 20M-40M firearms per year.  That's fucking huge.  Require proof of gun safety courses, participation in club shooting, participation in hunting, etc.  The idea is that heuristic won't entirely prevent guns from getting to those who shouldn't have them... but it's a big enough hurdle for many. 

 

I've bought a few guns in the US and it was far too easy.  Cutting the number of new guns that get out there in half is a reasonable part of long-horizon solution

[Hate 20108]

28 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

That’s not surprising at all, but it’s still going to be a 50% solution at best. A smart shooter can just pull the fire alarm and fill a hallway with targets. We are twisting ourselves into knots trying to work around the core issue. 

Isn’t the core issue that there are some fucked up kids that think this is their only option?

[Bogeywon 2519]

Considering charges on both parents…. News conference on now

[TXSG8R 3362]

32 minutes ago, Hate said:

Isn’t the core issue that there are some fucked up kids that think this is their only option?

I think there are fucked up kids all over the world, they just have easier access to guns here.  If you think resolving mental issues, school bullying, hormonal angst, etc is the easier nut to crack Ill listen.  

[TXSG8R 3362]

55 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

You know it'd be much smarter if you told your kids to befriend the bullied kids to get on their exempt list.

I've seen that movie too.  I'm not putting my chips on a kid irrational enough to start shooting up a school to have the mental clarity to think through who did and didn't piss him off once he starts slinging metal downrange.  Teaching your kids not to be the asshole should go without saying, but yes, that should be high on the list too.

[bolverk 29671]

1 minute ago, TXSG8R said:

I've seen that movie too.  I'm not putting my chips on a kid irrational enough to start shooting up a school to have the mental clarity to think through who did and didn't piss him off once he starts slinging metal downrange.  Teaching your kids not to be the asshole should go without saying, but yes, that should be high on the list too.

[TXSG8R 3362]

43 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Yup.  There'll never be inroads until people accept all of these simultaneously:

* People won't give up their existing guns

* Gun count will never go to zero

* Europe and the other cited fantasy lands are not gun-free (nor accident free)

* Other countries with stringent gun laws aren't gun-free (hellllo Mexico)

* US school shooting is a byproduct of BOTH the local availability of guns, AND its culture ("im aggrieved, ill shoot them"); not exclusively the domain of just one. 

Instead of calling for "bans" or demonizing certain types of weapons (multi fatality shootings rarely involve AR rifles), a decent target and place to start is just to reduce the overall gun count.  The US sells something like 20M-40M firearms per year.  That's fucking huge.  Require proof of gun safety courses, participation in club shooting, participation in hunting, etc.  The idea is that heuristic won't entirely prevent guns from getting to those who shouldn't have them... but it's a big enough hurdle for many. 

 

I've bought a few guns in the US and it was far too easy.  Cutting the number of new guns that get out there in half is a reasonable part of long-horizon solution

I think reducing the gun count is as pointless as trying to eliminate gun ownership in this country.  That ship has sailed.  The only thing we can do is make it painful to be a shitty gun owner to the point where people find locking their shit up to be the better alternative.  Unfortunately anything resembling responsible gun ownership legislation will get the slippery slope treatment and we will right back to thoughts and prayers.  

[Bogeywon 2519]

I don’t know where I stand. I believe you should have to have a physiological evaluation before purchase of a firearm but then again this kid could grab a knife and stab someone to death. Just so sad this whole thing. 

[conVINCEd 21469]

4 minutes ago, Bogeywon said:

I don’t know where I stand. I believe you should have to have a physiological evaluation before purchase of a firearm but then again this kid could grab a knife and stab someone to death. Just so sad this whole thing. 

You at least have a fighting chance against someone with a knife.

[Guest Lobo]

3 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

You at least have a fighting chance against someone with a knife.

For instance, you could bring a gun to said knife fight.  

[TXSG8R 3362]

5 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

You at least have a fighting chance against someone with a knife.

Yep, a kid can pick up a chair and have a decent chance of defending his or her self against a knife.  A handful of kids with chairs can neutralize someone with a knife.  That's probably why the crazy kids are bringing guns to school and not knives.  

[hookemATL 11724]

7 minutes ago, Lobo said:

For instance, you could bring a gun to said knife fight.  

Or a spoon.

Edited December 1, 2021 by hookemATL
cue Simpsons knifey spooney gif in 3...2...1...

[Guest Lobo]

Or a spork.  But unfortunately the cafeteria outlawed those last year.  Thanks a lot Karen!

[sidis 9828]

1 minute ago, hookemATL said:

Or a spoon.

 

this shit is awful and heartbreaking.  nightmares about being in the shoes of those parents today.  fuck.

 

[hookemATL 11724]

4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Or a spork.  But unfortunately the cafeteria outlawed those last year. 

There will be no miscegenation of utensils here at Robert E. Lee Elementary School! 

[Guest Lobo]

Isn’t there a way where we keep 15 year olds from driving cars but somehow those laws/freedom restrictions still allow the rest of us to drive to places to fish and hunt?

[DDD Dad 14339]

3 hours ago, TXSG8R said:

If only there was some other way to keep kids from school shootings other than coming up with Rude Goldberg safety processes.  Guess we will never know. 

Live look at Rude Goldberg:

[Foosters 17856]

2 hours ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

 

There are probably quite a few steps in between what we have now and a disarmed society. Maybe start with those. 

OK!

20 years since Columbine and not a single step has been taken despite multiple attempts at legislation that do not include a "disarmed society." Because the pro-gun lobby shoots them down as a "slippery slope" to disarmament.

Got any more advice?