SEC Championship - Georgia V. Alabama

[Gidnik 3286]

the only people on earth that would be more insufferable than UGA winning a national championship is Michigan.  i hope they both lose. 

 

[kevwun 15936]

8 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

The best part of moving to the SEC is Bama and Auburn moving to the East, meaning Georgia would actually have to beat Bama before actually getting to do something.

Kirby shitting the bed earlier in the season will just mean they'll have a better shot at getting in to the playoffs.  All SEC losses are forgiven after 3 or 4 weeks.  Georgia could still get in even after losing the conference championship game.  This game happens in October or November, and it would be a no doubter.

Edited December 5, 2021 by kevwun

[G650 14278]

4 hours ago, Gidnik said:

the only people on earth that would be more insufferable than UGA winning a national championship is Michigan.  i hope they both lose. 

 

Oh not even close. Michigan fans would be down right gracious compared to Georgia white trash

[texasstrong12 4668]

Bama is going to win it all and then Saban might fire both his coordinators. That's hilarious.

I'm not sure Bama even has a top 15 coordinator on defense or offense right now and it might not make a difference. 

 

 

[Buzzrock 14950]

Lulz, why is UGA vs. Bama a de facto playoff game in the CCG but ND vs. Cincy isn’t. We’ve all seen that game, too and what happened.
The kneejerk “drop Georgia” is just that, kneejerk. And it’s driven more by a frustration that Bama and UGA most likely ARE the two best teams and not a real belief that ND might be better than Georgia (Notre Dame isn’t). 

And the fact that Georgia didn’t beat anyone and their secondary is vulnerable and their QB is suspect and their fans suck and they should lose everything and never find joy.

[G650 14278]

6 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Bama is going to win it all and then Saban might fire both his coordinators. That's hilarious.

I'm not sure Bama even has a top 15 coordinator on defense or offense right now and it might not make a difference. 

 

 

God I fucking hope so. Those two clowns gotta go

[G650 14278]

2 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

And the fact that Georgia didn’t beat anyone and their secondary is vulnerable and their QB is suspect and their fans suck and they should lose everything and never find joy.

Put this on the wall. Amen.

[kevwun 15936]

This was supposed to be Georgia and Kirby's year and Alabama handled them rather easily with a team that isn't great by their standards.  The SEC East is shitty and they got lucky to catch Clemson in a rebuilding year when they are down badly.  They managed to beat them 10-3.  There is nothing about their resume that points to them deserving another shot at losing to Alabama.

Edited December 5, 2021 by kevwun

[texasstrong12 4668]

Georgia is probably a top 4 team but their best win is maybe Kentucky? Give me a fucking break.  

Other conferences are punished for this shit but not the SEC apparently. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by texasstrong12

[G650 14278]

ND and Baylor both have a better SoS than Georgia fwiw.

[956 Worldwide 34805]

7 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Georgia is probably a top 4 team but their best win is maybe Kentucky? Give me a fucking break.  

Other conferences are punished for this shit but not the SEC apparently. 

There’s only one other one loss team and ND doesn’t have a win as good as Kentucky. 

A two loss Big XII team is never going to make the playoff. Ever. If Baylor wanted in they shouldn’t have loss to a sub-500 TCU. They didn’t.

The griping over Georgia is just frustration that they are, in fact, a top four team. They’re probably a top two team.  No one actually thinks ND or Baylor is better. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

2 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

There’s only one other one loss team and ND doesn’t have a win as good as Kentucky. 

A two loss Big XII team is never going to make the playoff. Ever. If Baylor wanted in they shouldn’t have loss to a sub-500 TCU. They didn’t.

The griping over Georgia is just frustration that they are, in fact, a top four team. They’re probably a top two team.  No one actually thinks ND or Baylor is better. 

That’s bullshit. “Nobody thinks ND is better” is subjective. 

Almost every SOS I’ve seen has ND> Georgia and Georgia has nothing on their resume.

I would take Georgia to beat ND but that’s not how this works. 

[956 Worldwide 34805]

7 minutes ago, G650 said:

ND and Baylor both have a better SoS than Georgia fwiw.

This bleeding over Baylor is ridiculous. No team has ever gotten in with two losses and now it’s supposed to gotdamn Baylor that breaks that rule? Because they beat Okie Lite in a rematch? 

They lost to a 3-9 team that fired its coach. That is by far the worst loss of those three. Georgia lost to (checks notes)— a Nick Saban coached Alabama team. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

And yes ND has a better win than Georgia. 
 

Wisconsin> Kentucky. 

[Bama Llama 1450]

10 hours ago, EuroHorn said:

Michigan 1, Alabama 2, Georgia 3 and Cincinnati 4 

I see your point but what about this?  Michigan beats OSU in the Big House and jumps from 5 to 2.  Bama neuters UGA in Atlanta in front of 75% UGA fans and should jump up to 1.  I'm fine with tossing UGA out of the top 4 but no way should Bama be anything less than 1.   The committee will talk "body of work" and shit, tough, and keep UGA in at #3 to avoid a rematch in the semi.  I guess we'll find out soon enough.  You guys don't realize how important Metchie being out is.  He has been THE guy for Bryce Young on key plays.  We shall see, saith the blind man.  Play ball!

[956 Worldwide 34805]

3 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

That’s bullshit. “Nobody thinks ND is better” is subjective. 

Almost every SOS I’ve seen has ND> Georgia and Georgia has nothing on their resume.

I would take Georgia to beat ND but that’s not how this works. 

Notre Dame is six spots ahead of Georgia in SOS. That’s a rounding error with 128 teams. What is on Note Dame’s resume besides a win vs. Wisconsin and a loss to Cincy? 

[956 Worldwide 34805]

4 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

And yes ND has a better win than Georgia. 
 

Wisconsin> Kentucky. 

Please show your work on how unranked 4 loss Wisky is better than 3 loss ranked Kentucky that doesn’t involve complaining about SEC bias. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

Just now, 956 Worldwide said:

Notre Dame is six spots ahead of Georgia in SOS. That’s a rounding error with 128 teams. What is on Note Dame’s resume besides a win vs. Wisconsin and a loss to Cincy? 

Nothing but they still have the better win and better SOS. 

Almost every advanced metric has Wisconsin>Kentucky. Weren’t you just arguing that Georgia had the best win? 

[texasstrong12 4668]

4 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Please show your work on how unranked 4 loss Wisky is better than 3 loss ranked Kentucky that doesn’t involve complaining about SEC bias. 

FEI, Sagarin, etc all have Wisconsin> Kentucky. 

It’s almost like Kentucky went 9-3 because they played a shit schedule similar to Georgia. Thanks for further proving my point about SEC bias. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by texasstrong12

[kevwun 15936]

This vaunted Georgia team beat Clemson because of an int return.  Their offense scored 3 points.

[G650 14278]

9 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

This bleeding over Baylor is ridiculous. No team has ever gotten in with two losses and now it’s supposed to gotdamn Baylor that breaks that rule? Because they beat Okie Lite in a rematch? 

They lost to a 3-9 team that fired its coach. That is by far the worst loss of those three. Georgia lost to (checks notes)— a Nick Saban coached Alabama team. 

I'm not boosting Baylor

[Murfdogg21 4432]

6 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Lulz, why is UGA vs. Bama a de facto playoff game in the CCG but ND vs. Cincy isn’t. We’ve all seen that game, too and what happened.

The kneejerk “drop Georgia” is just that, kneejerk. And it’s driven more by a frustration that Bama and UGA most likely ARE the two best teams and not a real belief that ND might be better than Georgia (Notre Dame isn’t). 

I don’t think ND is better than UGA, but ND’s loss happened earlier in the season. UGA got their ass kicked literally yesterday. I think it’s stupid for CCG losers to get playoff spots when it’s only a 4 team playoff. I’m rage against the old BCS and the current 4 team setup more than an SEC hater. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

Per Sagarin, the SOS for Kentucky was (#68) and for Wisconsin it was (#6). 

But because of SEC bias, Kentucky is ranked and Wisconsin isn't due to 1 more loss. So now the SEC has the "better" win based on that bias when all the advanced metrics show Wisconsin>Kentucky. 

That won't stop SEC homers like 956 Worldwide (who I think is an aggy?) from continually beating this drum by appealing to the very SEC bias that's obvious in the polls. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by texasstrong12

[TexasMan 10989]

12 hours ago, UTEX_ME said:

 

[956 Worldwide 34805]

7 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

I don’t think ND is better than UGA, but ND’s loss happened earlier in the season. UGA got their ass kicked literally yesterday. I think it’s stupid for CCG losers to get playoff spots when it’s only a 4 team playoff. I’m rage against the old BCS and the current 4 team setup more than an SEC hater. 

I can get on board with this but it’s also stupid to treat a loss early in the season in a non-conference game as a “better” loss than a loss in a high stakes game for something meaningful. It’s penalizing the conferences that pit two good teams against each other and rewards ND for not playing in one. 

[956 Worldwide 34805]

3 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Per Sagarin, the SOS for Kentucky was (#68) and for Wisconsin it was (#6). 

But because of SEC bias, Kentucky is ranked and Wisconsin isn't due to 1 more loss. So now the SEC has the "better" win based on that bias when all the advanced metrics show Wisconsin>Kentucky. 

That won't stop SEC homers like 956 Worldwide (who I think is an aggy?) from continually beating this drum by appealing to the very SEC bias that's obvious in the polls. 

If you want to go by Sagarin then Georgia is still the second best team, guy. Or does Sagarin only come into play when calculating whatever complicated “best win” formula keeps out a top 4 team because you don’t like the conference? 
 

[Dutchrudder 11154]

And yes ND has a better win than Georgia. 
 
Wisconsin> Kentucky. 

Neither team has an impressive win, but Georgia's loss in a championship > fucking around in non conference play.

[TXSG8R 3362]

52 minutes ago, kevwun said:

This was supposed to be Georgia and Kirby's year and Alabama handled them rather easily with a team that isn't great by their standards.  The SEC East is shitty and they got lucky to catch Clemson in a rebuilding year when they are down badly.  They managed to beat them 10-3.  There is nothing about their resume that points to them deserving another shot at losing to Alabama.

Bama won with their best RB running on one leg and one of their best WRs only playing a half. It’s ridiculous. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

If you want to go by Sagarin then Georgia is still the second best team, guy. Or does Sagarin only come into play when calculating whatever complicated “best win” formula keeps out a top 4 team because you don’t like the conference? 
 

1) I need to see how the other advanced metrics play out once FEI and SP+ adjust for Georgia's loss yesterday. 

2) I've never argued that the advanced metrics should be a straight line guide for who makes the playoffs (i.e. you just pick the top 4 teams from FEI, SP+, Sagarin, etc). The point is, outside of the AP rankings there is nothing to suggest that Kentucky is a better win than Wisconsin. If the criteria you're using to justify Georgia > ND is "better win" it's not a good argument. 

3) I have no hate for the SEC other than clear bias. If Georgia had the better SOS and better win, based on what's being discussed in this thread, I would make the same argument. 

 

[956 Worldwide 34805]

25 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

FEI, Sagarin, etc all have Wisconsin> Kentucky. 

It’s almost like Kentucky went 9-3 because they played a shit schedule similar to Georgia. Thanks for further proving my point about SEC bias. 

So, trying to track the logic. 

ND has 1 loss. UGA has 1 loss. Sagarin has UGA above ND. 
 

BUT

The best team ND beat is ranked higher in Sagarin than the best team UGA beat is ranked in Sagarin.

Ergo ND> UGA. Because Sagarin, even though Sagarin has UGA higher. 
 

Did I follow here? 

[texasstrong12 4668]

8 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

35 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

And yes ND has a better win than Georgia. 
 
Wisconsin> Kentucky. 

Neither team has an impressive win, but Georgia's loss in a championship > fucking around in non conference play.

ND and Georgia both lost to playoff teams so that does nothing for me. 

 

[texasstrong12 4668]

1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

So, trying to track the logic. 

ND has 1 loss. UGA has 1 loss. Sagarin has UGA above ND. 
 

BUT

The best team ND beat is ranked higher in Sagarin than the best team UGA beat is ranked in Sagarin.

Ergo ND> UGA. Because Sagarin, even though Sagarin has UGA higher. 
 

Did I follow here? 

Again, I never said Sagarin should be a straight line guide for picking the playoff teams (i.e. you just take the top 4 teams in FEI, Sagarin and SP+). 

Your argument that Kentucky is a better win than Wisconsin is not a good argument because Kentucky played a shit schedule. Throw Sagarin and FEI rankings out and just look at the SOS if that pleases you. Arguing that Kentucky (9-3) > Wisconsin (8-4) is a terrible argument when Kentucky played a god awful schedule. 

What are your criteria for determining who should get a playoff spot? And "everyone knows Georgia is the better team" is not a good argument. 

[956 Worldwide 34805]

4 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Again, I never said Sagarin should be a straight line guide for picking the playoff teams (i.e. you just take the top 4 teams in FEI, Sagarin and SP+). 

Your argument that Kentucky is a better win than Wisconsin is not a good argument because Kentucky played a shit schedule. Throw Sagarin and FEI rankings out and just look at the SOS if that pleases you. Arguing that Kentucky (9-3) > Wisconsin (8-4) is a terrible argument when Kentucky played a god awful schedule. 

What are your criteria for determining who should get a playoff spot? And "everyone knows Georgia is the better team" is not a good argument. 

I think if you’re comparing one loss teams then Sagarin, FPI, and nearly every other poll is a good place to start. Which will all show Georgia over ND. It’s more logical than cherry picking certain advanced metrics and ignoring what they all say together. 
 

[G650 14278]

21 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Bama won with their best RB running on one leg and one of their best WRs only playing a half. It’s ridiculous. 

I think its pretty clear after last night that UGAs "historically great defense " is actually just a very dominant run defending line that hasn't played a real passing attack until now.

[texasstrong12 4668]

1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I think if you’re comparing one loss teams then Sagarin, FPI, and nearly every other poll is a good place to start. Which will all show Georgia over ND. It’s more logical than cherry picking certain advanced metrics and ignoring what they all say together. 
 

It's not cherry picking when you argue Georgia has the better win. They don't. 

 

 

[texasstrong12 4668]

3 minutes ago, G650 said:

I think its pretty clear after last night that UGAs "historically great defense " is actually just a very dominant run defending line that hasn't played a real passing attack until now.

The only good offense that UGA had played before Alabama was Tennessee. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

I will say, I definitely thought Georgia was going to win this game but that's because I thought this was one of the weaker Alabama teams in about a decade. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3448]

Anybody else feel like Kirby is mimicking Saban's evolution and is currently in the Bama-Saban 1.0 phase of his head coaching career. He doesn't care enough about the offensive side of the ball and it will take a few more unanticipated losses before he finally gets serious about employing a modern offense or actual talent at the QB position.

Bob Stoops seems to be the only defensive minded head coach over the last 25 years that I can think of who upon getting his 1st HC job was serious about fielding an explosive offense. He didn't lean towards the conservative inclinations most defensive minded head coaches have when they first get a job. And not only that he had a real keen sense of not only knowing when to change out OCs but picking new OCs when his offenses started to sputter. He went from Leach to Mangino to Long to Wilson to Heupel to Riley. Long and Heupel were the only ones who weren't super elite OCs under him and Heupel may prove to be a decent head coach despite that fact.

[956 Worldwide 34805]

8 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

It's not cherry picking when you argue Georgia has the better win. They don't. 

 

 

Wisconsin may be a marginally better win than Kentucky, if all you look at is advanced metrics. ND also had very close games against FSU, Toledo, and Virginia Tech. No one stayed on the field with UGA except Clemson. 
 

I also just noticed that Sagarin has Clemson above Wisconsin so it looks like UGA has the better win anyway.

 

 

[Dutchrudder 11154]

FEI, Sagarin, etc all have Wisconsin> Kentucky. 
It’s almost like Kentucky went 9-3 because they played a shit schedule similar to Georgia. Thanks for further proving my point about SEC bias. 

You guys arguing Wisconsin vs Kentucky are missing the forest for the trees. Neither team warrants any discussion when it comes to playoff consideration because neither has even 1 impressive win on their resume. Neither should be ranked top 5.

Baylor at least has wins over 3 currently ranked opponents. Hell OSU has a better resume than ND and should be in the discussion if ND is allowed to get by beating cupcakes all year. At least OSU has wins over multiple opponents who are ranked at the end of the season.

[Fudge Nuggets 19228]

9 hours ago, BluTechsan said:

Absolutely!!

If there are auto-qualifiers there should also be auto-disqualifies

😀

Losing to TCU is a bigger disqualifier than losing to 8&4.

[956 Worldwide 34805]

7 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

Baylor at least has wins over 3 currently ranked opponents. Hell OSU has a better resume than ND and should be in the discussion if ND is allowed to get by beating cupcakes all year. 

The final AP poll will almost certainly have Arkansas, Kentucky, and Clemson in it. 
 

Baylor lost to a terrible three win team. You don’t do that and then get to complain about other teams not having quality wins. If OSU had won in the CCG, or if Baylor hadn’t dropped that TCU game then either would belong. But you can’t lose to 3-9 TCU. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

28 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Wisconsin may be a marginally better win than Kentucky, if all you look at is advanced metrics. ND also had very close games against FSU, Toledo, and Virginia Tech. No one stayed on the field with UGA except Clemson. 
 

I also just noticed that Sagarin has Clemson above Wisconsin so it looks like UGA has the better win anyway.

 

 

If I'm looking at this correctly-

F+: Wisconsin #7. Clemson #14, Kentucky #18

SP+:Wisconsin #8, Clemson #9, Kentucky #22

FEI: Wisconsin #8, Kentucky #12, Clemson #29

Sagarin: Clemson #10, Wisconsin #12, and Kentucky #21

I don't think F+ and FEI have been updated yet but not sure there will be huge movement. The main point I was making about Sagarin was SOS for why 8-4 doesn't necessarily mean  > 9-3 in the comparisons of Kentucky and Wisconsin. Regardless, if you look across the board Wisconsin is likely going to be considered a better win than both Kentucky and Clemson (based on the advanced metrics that is). 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by texasstrong12

[EuroHorn 3272]

1 hour ago, Bama Llama said:

I see your point but what about this?  Michigan beats OSU in the Big House and jumps from 5 to 2.  Bama neuters UGA in Atlanta in front of 75% UGA fans and should jump up to 1.  I'm fine with tossing UGA out of the top 4 but no way should Bama be anything less than 1.   The committee will talk "body of work" and shit, tough, and keep UGA in at #3 to avoid a rematch in the semi.  I guess we'll find out soon enough.  You guys don't realize how important Metchie being out is.  He has been THE guy for Bryce Young on key plays.  We shall see, saith the blind man.  Play ball!

My only reasoning for that is it prevents an SEC championship game again for the National championship.  I think.  I think Georgias body of work is not that great.  Best win was Kentucky and Alabama struggled in the sec East.  Also I don’t think a lot of people want to see an all sec championship repeat in the final. 

[956 Worldwide 34805]

2 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

If I'm looking at this correctly-

F+:: Wisconsin #7. Clemson #14, Kentucky #18

SP+=Wisconsin #8, Clemson #9, Kentucky #22

FEI: Wisconsin #8, Kentucky #12, Clemson #29

Sagarin: Clemson #10, Wisconsin #12, and Kentucky #21

I don't think F+ and FEI have been updated yet but not sure there will be huge movement. The main point I was making about Sagarin was SOS for why 8-4 doesn't necessarily mean  > 9-3 in the comparisons of Kentucky and Wisconsin. Regardless, if you look across the board Wisconsin is likely going to be considered a better win than both Kentucky and Clemson. 

 

 

 

SP+ is a push between Clemson and Wisky. The fact that these rankings have such wild swings for where they put the teams should be a red flag about how useful the advanced metric ranking systems are when actually trying to sort these teams. 

[Bama Llama 1450]

48 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

My only reasoning for that is it prevents an SEC championship game again for the National championship.  I think.  I think Georgias body of work is not that great.  Best win was Kentucky and Alabama struggled in the sec East.  Also I don’t think a lot of people want to see an all sec championship repeat in the final. 

Fair enough.  I don't want to see it either.

[Had Enough 2088]

SP+ is a push between Clemson and Wisky. The fact that these rankings have such wild swings for where they put the teams should be a red flag about how useful the advanced metric ranking systems are when actually trying to sort these teams. 

Add some context. That Clemson team Georgia beat was not worth a damn. Clemson is only ranked that high due to their work of the last 2 weeks or so and playing in the crappy ACC.

Some of that might be applicable to Wisconsin too. But not really cause they played 3 very solid teams whereas Clemson was just terrible.

Context again. Michigan should be #1. Lost on the road to a team coming off a bye and at their place. Supposedly had a TD taken away too. They controlled the OSU game for the most part then OSU needed multiple 4th down conversions to stay in it. An OSU that talent-wise probably top 3 in the country.

Bama needed a miracle, poor coaching, a terrible player decision and at least one 4th down conversion to beat an average, QBless team just one week ago.

It’s a little jacked up cause Baylor isn’t better than OSU, but they are champs.

Georgia is top 4, but they don’t deserve another chance versus BAMA. That should be the overriding theme.

[tbone_ 14192]

It’s going to be Bama Ga in the champ game. Might as well get ready for it.

[kevwun 15936]

Georgia's offense isn't very good when they play good defenses.

[956 Worldwide 34805]

9 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

It’s going to be Bama Ga in the champ game. Might as well get ready for it.

They will have a better shot at winning than most think, too. It’s real hard to beat a team twice as Okie Light now knows.