Is a fake slide an acceptable move ?

[bullet 1596]

17 minutes ago, po elvis said:

This does bring up other thing like faking going out of bounds and turning up field. Also a QB trying to run a few more seconds off the clock by instead of taking the knee right away and waits until a defender is closing in on him (or her or binary person)

I think that's different.  There's no special protection other than for a late hit.

[Horn Dog 9671]

Not only should he be ruled down at initiation of fake slide, the slide protection rule should no longer protect this QB for the remainder of his collegiate career for being a douch.

[TexArcher 37508]

Bitch move.  

But technically he operated within the rules, so as others have noted, the rule's got to be changed.  But that'll start a bitching contest about what's a slide and what's a juke and they'll probably just decide that flag football is the way to go.

[SHOOTER12 8789]

If a bitch can fake an orgasm and I can still hose their face down... I say fuck it, let it ride/slide...

[4th&Five 41459]

I loved it. If they called it dead or he took a hit after I would have been fine with that too. 

[Huckleberry 32699]

It should be illegal because at the speed defenders move these days they have to start pulling up as soon as they see a slide motion get started or they will hit the player hard.

If they're smart they'll address this in the offseason because as others said above, this is a good way to get badly hurt.

[aggie08 21431]

Bush league and completely unfair to the defense--who the rules are already stacked against--trying to do the right thing in today's game and let a QB give himself up without contact.

Mahomes does this shit all the time in the NFL too when he's running towards the sidelines. He lets up, signifying that he's going to continue directly out of bounds, the defense lets up because they know better than to hit a jogging QB near the sideline, then Mahomes turns up and reaches out for a few cheap yards. But if a defender lights him up on that, it's a penalty and they're labeled dirty.

[SKA the boss 729]

He gamed the system under the rules. Pussy move. Rule needs to change asap. Any slide or appearance is giving yourself up. Same for the out of bounds fake.

[Murfdogg21 4412]

3 hours ago, po elvis said:

This does bring up other thing like faking going out of bounds and turning up field.

This. Players (usually QBs) have been doing this horseshit for years and nobody on here has been bitching about it being unsportsmanlike when the defenders pull up to avoid a late hit out of bounds and the QB ends up picking up a first down or sometimes a big gain. No difference in spirit or execution. 

[formermav43 4599]

It was awesome. Zero issue with it.

[52-80 19086]

11 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Fake slide should equate to giving yourself up.  Play is dead at the spot you tried to pull off that type of bullshit.

very obviously

[Slacks 6791]

10 hours ago, SHOOTER12 said:

If a bitch can fake an orgasm and I can still hose their face down... I say fuck it, let it ride/slide...

 

[closetohumping 17400]

Not 

[utee94 15745]

Beginning the slide ends the play.  Ball is dead at the spot the slide (fake or real) begins.  If the player continues to run, a delay of game penalty should be added.

Alternatively eliminate the slide rule entirely, which I'd be fine with.

[The University 851]

the only thing about the replay that was bullshit is realizing #15 pitt and #16 wake forest were playing for a championship while i'm trying to diagnose whether or not the pseudoslide was bullshit.

Edited December 6, 2021 by The University

[DigglerontheHoof 21060]

7 hours ago, formermav43 said:

It was awesome. Zero issue with it.

Then I assume you'd also have zero issue if an LB lights his ass up as he slides in the bowl game.  If it happens, they shouldn't throw a flag. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10145]

Complete bitch move

All for protecting the QB behind the line of scrimmage. After he passes line of scrimmage he's a RB and should be treated as such.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

It’s obviously a bitch move…but tip of the cap to him, that was smooth as hell at full speed. It’s gonna hurt and hurt a lot next time he really slides

[Hermanator 6939]

12 hours ago, iodeac said:

I was at the game yesterday, thought it was bush league. In his press conference he said it was intentional so I hope he tries it again vs Michigan State and they take his head off

Enviado desde mi SM-G973U mediante Tapatalk
 

They should cut his fucking head off!

[MirrOlure 14625]

This. Players (usually QBs) have been doing this horseshit for years and nobody on here has been bitching about it being unsportsmanlike when the defenders pull up to avoid a late hit out of bounds and the QB ends up picking up a first down or sometimes a big gain. No difference in spirit or execution. 

They could call the mandatory run out of bounds rule the Franco Harris Rule

[BurntOrange&White 39651]

Isn't the rule that once the offensive player begins the motion of giving himself up the play is dead? 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

13 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Isn't the rule that once the offensive player begins the motion of giving himself up the play is dead? 

He hid it very well. You could maybe say he was just pulling up to change direction, but I saw it as him trying to slide (his feet start to come forward) so I thought it was a BS non call. He needs to get his ass lit up the next time he goes to slide.

[utee94 15745]

6 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Isn't the rule that once the offensive player begins the motion of giving himself up the play is dead? 

That's what I thought, then second-guessed myself, and then looked it up. http://www.amarefs.org/FR19.pdf

 

Quote

Rulebook Rule 4, Article 3, Subsection R:

Rule 4: Ball In Play, Dead Ball, Our of Bounds:

Article 3: Ball Declared Dead:

Subsection R:

The ball is declared dead when a ball carrier obviously begins a feet-first slide. (A.R. 4-1-3-III)

So I suppose the interpretation of "obviously begins" is what's up in the air.

Looked obvious to me, one foot is extended out in front, while the knee of the trailing leg ALMOST touches the ground.  

[formermav43 4599]

44 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Then I assume you'd also have zero issue if an LB lights his ass up as he slides in the bowl game.  If it happens, they shouldn't throw a flag. 

In the situation on this play, obviously not. If he’s actually sliding, I’d thank them for the extra 15 yards.

The irony of so many crying internet tears and calling it “pussy, bitch, bush league” is pretty fantastic. Seems to me that those complaining about a heady play are the soft ones. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

6 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

In the situation on this play, obviously not. If he’s actually sliding, I’d thank them for the extra 15 yards.

The irony of so many crying internet tears and calling it “pussy, bitch, bush league” is pretty fantastic. Seems to me that those complaining about a heady play are the soft ones. 

Yeah that's it, everybody is soft because they saw a player use a rule (designed to protect him) to gain an unfair advantage.  

The consensus has been he should be lit up for it. That's not what I'd say is a soft response to what he did.  I hope Michigan lights his ass up in the back field, and every time he tucks, and runs (which I hope they force him to do a lot).

[formermav43 4599]

6 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah that's it, everybody is soft because they saw a player use a rule (designed to protect him) to gain an unfair advantage.  

The consensus has been he should be lit up for it. That's not what I'd say is a soft response to what he did.  I hope Michigan lights his ass up in the back field, and every time he tucks, and runs (which I hope they force him to do a lot).

Lashing out in frustration because you were outsmarted sounds pretty soft to me. And advocating hits that risk penalty or even ejection just to send some sort of message just doubles down on stupid. But I’m sure they’d appreciate the free yards.

And it’s Michigan State.

Edited December 6, 2021 by formermav43

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

16 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

Lashing out in frustration because you were outsmarted sounds pretty soft to me. And advocating hits that risk penalty or even ejection just to send some sort of message just doubles down on stupid. But I’m sure they’d appreciate the free yards.

And it’s Michigan State.

They weren't outsmarted. The rule is once you begin the slide the play is dead, and you can't hit the QB. The refs didn't call it/ missed it. The defenders were playing it by what the rules state. How is that being outsmarted ?  And Picket stated he knew exactly what he was doing.

[Deej 76560]

1 hour ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Then I assume you'd also have zero issue if an LB lights his ass up as he slides in the bowl game.  If it happens, they shouldn't throw a flag. 

Once a QB pulls that, the rule should be they waive all future protection by the slide rule. He's fair game going forward for the remainder of his career. That will put a stop to that shit. 

[formermav43 4599]

11 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

They weren't outsmarted. The rule is once you begin the slide the play is dead, and you can't hit the QB. The refs didn't call it/ missed it. The defenders were playing it by what the rules state. How is that being outsmarted ?  And Picket stated he knew exactly what he was doing.

Unless and until they amend the wording of the rules or give a specific interpretation in the future to cover this, they didn’t miss anything-given that he didn’t actually slide, it’s difficult to argue he “obviously began” one. His play was within the rules, and he knew what he was doing-that’s the definition of outsmarting them.

[Nope 3111]

It should be illegal, and Baker Mayfield does it all the time, so it should also lead to an ejection.

[formermav43 4599]

Just now, Nope said:

It should be illegal, and Baker Mayfield does it all the time, so it should also lead to an ejection.

Now this might make me change my opinion.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

5 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

Unless and until they amend the wording of the rules or give a specific interpretation in the future to cover this, they didn’t miss anything-given that he didn’t actually slide, it’s difficult to argue he “obviously began” one. His play was within the rules, and he knew what he was doing-that’s the definition of outsmarting them.

Yeah we can disagree all you want, but he faked a slide, his feet come forward just like he would have gone down in a slide, he even stated it.  That the refs missed the call is fortunate for him.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

Now this might make me change my opinion.

Ahhhh, so subjective rules....

[formermav43 4599]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah we can disagree all you want, but he faked a slide, his feet come forward just like he would have gone down in a slide, he even stated it.  That the refs missed the call is fortunate for him.  

I don’t think they missed it. Faking one is not obviously beginning one. 

At any rate, I think we can agree that this probably warrants amending the rules.

[utee94 15745]

11 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

Unless and until they amend the wording of the rules or give a specific interpretation in the future to cover this, they didn’t miss anything-given that he didn’t actually slide, it’s difficult to argue he “obviously began” one. His play was within the rules, and he knew what he was doing-that’s the definition of outsmarting them.

I don't think it's difficult to argue that he "obviously began" a feet-first slide. His front foot extends forward and his trailing knee almost touches the ground.  The defenders clearly saw him "obviously begin" a slide. 

But any time there's room for interpretation, the refs have the chance to make an incorrect call, which in this case, they did.

Simple solution is to eliminate the rule.  It shouldn't exist, anyway.  There are already rules against late hits, and rules against unnecessary roughness.  There don't need to be any further protections afforded ballcarriers in the open field.  If they wish to risk injury, they can wait until the last minute and be tackled.  If they don't wish to risk injury, they can go down WELL before the defenders arrive, and any hit at that point would qualify as a late hit.  This is true for college anyway, where going down on your own renders a dead ball.  The NFL rules are different of course.

Edited December 6, 2021 by utee94

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

5 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

I don’t think they missed it. Faking one is not obviously beginning one. 

At any rate, I think we can agree that this probably warrants amending the rules.

Yes we do..

You fake something that's designed to make the other team let up, and basically stop playing.  The call is a safety measure for his own protection.  You can't fake a fair catch, and then run. The two are not very different.  

[formermav43 4599]

Just now, utee94 said:

I don't think it's difficult to argue that he "obviously began" a feet-first slide. His front foot extends forward and his trailing knee almost touches the ground.  The defenders clearly saw him "obviously begin" a slide. 

But any time there's room for interpretation, the refs have the chance to make an incorrect call, which in this case, they did.

Simple solution is to eliminate the rule.  It shouldn't exist, anyway.  There are already rules against late hits, and rules against unnecessary roughness.  There don't need to be any further protections afforded ballcarriers in the open field.  If they wish to risk injury, they can wait until the last minute and be tackles.  If they don't wish to risk injury, they can go down WELL before the defenders arrive, and any hit at that point would qualify as a late hit.  This is true for college anyway, where going down on your own renders a dead ball.  The NFL rules are different of course.

I still don’t believe the call was incorrect, but that suggested rule change is reasonable.

[utee94 15745]

1 minute ago, formermav43 said:

I still don’t believe the call was incorrect, but that suggested rule change is reasonable.

The call was incorrect by the rulebook.  He began a slide.  That he didn't complete it, is irrelevant, because that's not what triggers a dead ball, by the rulebook.

But sure, we agree it's either a bad rule or an unnecessary rule and it needs to be changed.  I think eliminating it is the only effective way to change it, because amending it only opens it up to even more elaborate subjectivity, which will inevitably result in continuing incorrect calls.  Plus, it's a redundant protection, because late hits and unnecessary roughness are already against the rules.

[formermav43 4599]

1 minute ago, utee94 said:

The call was incorrect by the rulebook.  He began a slide.  That he didn't complete it, is irrelevant, because that's not what triggers a dead ball, by the rulebook.

I don’t believe he began one. We’re not going to ever agree on this. And that’s precisely why it has to be clarified going forward (if not just removed like you propose, which I agree is cleaner).

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

I don’t believe he began one. We’re not going to ever agree on this. And that’s precisely why it has to be clarified going forward (if not just removed like you propose, which I agree is cleaner).

He stated after the game, that’s exactly what he was doing, a fake slide he stated it himself.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Onboard 2.0

[aggie08 21431]

1 hour ago, formermav43 said:

In the situation on this play, obviously not. If he’s actually sliding, I’d thank them for the extra 15 yards.

The irony of so many crying internet tears and calling it “pussy, bitch, bush league” is pretty fantastic. Seems to me that those complaining about a heady play are the soft ones. 

I'm just for giving the defense some chance to succeed under today's rules while still keeping player safety in mind.

That play was essential, "Serves you right for trying to protect me! Tricked ya, suckers!"

Because the defense doesn't already have enough things to keep in mind without worrying about players faking giving themselves up.

So, yeah, bush league.

[formermav43 4599]

5 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

He stated after the game  that’s exactly what he was doing a fake slide he said it himself

You keep saying this like it automatically disproves my point (and like I haven’t read it multiple times). I know he said that. Even if he DIDN’T say that, it’s clear it was intentional.

But is faking a slide “obviously beginning” one? That’s what’s in question. I don’t see any reason to necessarily interpret the rule that way.

Edited December 6, 2021 by formermav43

[crimsonlonghorn 2306]

9 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

I still don’t believe the call was incorrect, but that suggested rule change is reasonable.

I concur. It was a sick move, at the same time unsportsmanlike, but totally within the current rules. It can be both.  

But if players insist on taking advantage of rules put into place for their own safety, then the rules need to be changed... or the ref needs to look the other way the next time this douchenozzle tries a real slide and gets his head knocked off by a defender worried that it was just a fake.

If the rule says you can give yourself up and the defense will get penalized for not letting you give yourself up, then the obvious response is not to penalize the defense if they decide you are faking it. 

Baker Jr. can't have it both ways. 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21781]

14 hours ago, po elvis said:

the rules already says:

the ball is dead when….

a ball carrier obviously begins, or simulates, a feet first slide.

a ball carrier simulates putting his knee on the ground.

Obviously he didn’t simulate putting a knee on the ground but the simulation of a slide is pretty much the same thing.

My suggested rule change

[Murfdogg21 4412]

We’ve got a bunch of Football Thomas Jeffersons  and James Madisons on here ready to arbitrarily re-write the rules based on one play, or even make rules specific to certain players who have done things in the past. Well done, passionate non-sensical Surly. 

[utee94 15745]

3 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

My suggested rule change

It might help, but it makes it even more open to interpretation.

Just eliminate the rule completely.  It's redundant and unnecessary. 

If the ballcarrier wants those few extra yards, then the risk is getting hit.

If the ballcarrier doesn't want to get hit, he can go down well before the defenders arrive and avoid the hit.  And if the defenders still hit him after he's clearly down, then he'll earn a late hit penalty that's already a part of the well established rules of the game.

 

 

[MirrOlure 14625]

Some of you people still don't get it.  The QB can't have it both ways.  If the DB would have "lit his ass up" after he put the footwork in motion for a slide, it would have been a penalty, without any discussion about whether it was going to be a fake slide or a real slide.  

And "policy-wise" (setting aside from whether anyone agrees or disagrees with the policy), the DB did exactly what the safety-authorities wanted him to do and what he's been trained to do. 

That's why it was a chickenshit move by the QB, and why it should be and unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, or at the very least a delay of game.

[Jkwellborn 6653]

That almost looked like he stumbled at speed. They weren’t gonna tackle him though. The plays on the sideline are more bs.

[Pam Cummings 9576]

22 minutes ago, MirrOlure said:

Some of you people still don't get it.  The QB can't have it both ways.  If the DB would have "lit his ass up" after he put the footwork in motion for a slide, it would have been a penalty, without any discussion about whether it was going to be a fake slide or a real slide.  

And "policy-wise" (setting aside from whether anyone agrees or disagrees with the policy), the DB did exactly what the safety-authorities wanted him to do and what he's been trained to do. 

That's why it was a chickenshit move by the QB, and why it should be and unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, or at the very least a delay of game.

This is where i stand. Unless you're gonna let the defenders still hit QBs while they slide, you have to blow a play dead when a QB fakes a slide. He's giving himself up imo. In the NFL you're not down until someone touches you. But we don't let people fake taking a knee do we?

Edited December 6, 2021 by Pam Cummings

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

25 minutes ago, MirrOlure said:

Some of you people still don't get it.  The QB can't have it both ways.  If the DB would have "lit his ass up" after he put the footwork in motion for a slide, it would have been a penalty, without any discussion about whether it was going to be a fake slide or a real slide.  

And "policy-wise" (setting aside from whether anyone agrees or disagrees with the policy), the DB did exactly what the safety-authorities wanted him to do and what he's been trained to do. 

That's why it was a chickenshit move by the QB, and why it should be and unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, or at the very least a delay of game.

It's this whether you like the rule or not.  The whole you're soft thing is a non starter. You can't have it both ways, and that's what he used to game the rule.