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Is a fake slide an acceptable move ?

Onboard 2.0

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Intruder

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53 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

You keep saying this like it automatically disproves my point (and like I haven’t read it multiple times). I know he said that. Even if he DIDN’T say that, it’s clear it was intentional.

But is faking a slide “obviously beginning” one? That’s what’s in question. I don’t see any reason to necessarily interpret the rule that way.

How do you fake without using the beginning motions of the thing you are faking?

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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3439

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Yeah I'm in the camp of it's a bullshit move that shouldn't be legal.

To me the slide is no different than a fair catch. You are signaling to the defense that you are forfeiting your ability to advance the ball in exchange for not being hit/tackled.

You can't fake a fair catch and then return it. You shouldn't be able to fake a slide either.

Edited by oSuJeff97
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Intruder

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It's like the boxer who fakes a time out to get his opponent to drop his guard and then sucker punches him.  Yes, it is legal and yes, his opponent was told to protect himself at all times, but he was taking advantage of his opponents good sportsmanship with his poor sportsmanship.

This is not like Steve Young pump faking a pass while he was twenty yards downfield.  That was taking advantage of his opponents instincts to jump to block a pass.  Faking a slide is taking advantage of your opponents sportsmanship (sportsmanship that is mandated by rule for player protection) and will result in officiating changes or defenders being more aggressive during quarterback slides.

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Tex Long

Tex Long 4665

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New (clarification to existing) Rule: Ball's dead where the slide STARTS, fakery or no. If player protests, Unsportsmanlike.  If coach comes onto the field and protests, Unsportsmanlike. Continuing protests by coaches or players, without calling time out first, will result in additional Unsportsmanlike penalties. All will be enforced serially, i.e. start with 15-yard stepoff, add any additionals until ball is inside 30-yard line and continue with half-the-distance until all penalties have been enforced. Shouldn't take more than an occurrence or two to stop that shit.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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It seems pretty clear the collective calls BS on Pickett.  Not that the majority is always right, but he was clearly initiating a slide (especially when viewed from the defenders positions), and the refs didn't call it so it's all academic now.  I really wanna see him get a good shot below the shoulders the next time he takes off, and then slides. It would be worth the 15 depending where they are on the field.  Bush league play on his part.

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Huckleberry

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5 hours ago, formermav43 said:

In the situation on this play, obviously not. If he’s actually sliding, I’d thank them for the extra 15 yards.

The irony of so many crying internet tears and calling it “pussy, bitch, bush league” is pretty fantastic. Seems to me that those complaining about a heady play are the soft ones. 

I don't think you were talking about my response but to be clear I don't have an issue with a player in a championship game doing it. It's allowed in the current rules and he is trying to win a title for his team. It's even somewhat laudable not to give a shit what anyone thinks about you in that situation and just doing whatever it takes to win. I'm just saying the rule needs to be changed and/or clarified because someone could get hurt if this becomes a more common play. Not that they should get hurt.

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formermav43

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Just now, Huckleberry said:

I don't think you were talking about my response but to be clear I don't have an issue with a player in a championship game doing it. It's allowed in the current rules and he is trying to win a title for his team. It's even somewhat laudable not to give a shit what anyone thinks about you in that situation and just doing whatever it takes to win. I'm just saying the rule needs to be changed and/or clarified because someone could get hurt if this becomes a more common play. Not that they should get hurt.

No, not your comment. I think you and I are basically on the same page, down to the rule needing to be changed (you’ll see that if you keep reading the thread). And to your feelings on it in a championship game.

I’ll take “bush league” 58 yard TD runs all day while the loser whines about sportsmanship.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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31 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

No, not your comment. I think you and I are basically on the same page, down to the rule needing to be changed (you’ll see that if you keep reading the thread). And to your feelings on it in a championship game.

I’ll take “bush league” 58 yard TD runs all day while the loser whines about sportsmanship.

But this isn't about sportsmanship. If you see the video from the perspective the way the defenders saw it, he was clearly initiating a slide.  The rule states at the initiation of a slide the play is dead. The refs blew the call.  Screw sportsmanship.  Just get the call right, and this thread doesn't exist.

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Js1

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5 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

I don't think you were talking about my response but to be clear I don't have an issue with a player in a championship game doing it. It's allowed in the current rules and he is trying to win a title for his team. It's even somewhat laudable not to give a shit what anyone thinks about you in that situation and just doing whatever it takes to win. I'm just saying the rule needs to be changed and/or clarified because someone could get hurt if this becomes a more common play. Not that they should get hurt.

The refs can’t even decide what roughing the passer is when Casey gets drilled and there’s no flag.  Player safety my ass 

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Onboard 2.0

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28 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

How can you have “obviously begun” a slide if you don’t actually slide? Doesn’t seem terribly obvious.

It ain't chicken or egg here. The video angle from the defenders view shows him clearly dropping a knee, and sliding his feet forward, THAT is the initiation of a slide, the play should have been whistled dead right then according to the rules. That he is a great athlete and can recover, and then keep going was impressive, and was still an attempt to slide.  

The refs missed it, and in any review meeting that play was probably featured prominently.

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hobbes2702

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Just now, formermav43 said:

McAulay argues that it violates the spirit of the rule, but even he admits it doesn’t violate the letter.

They need to clarify the rule. He didn’t obviously begin a slide. 

But I’m sure the next regurgitation of breaking down the play will make it all somehow clear.

I don’t know why you’re pretending he didn’t begin his slide. You cannot fake a slide without starting it.

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Cairn Horn88

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13 hours ago, utee94 said:

That's what I thought, then second-guessed myself, and then looked it up. http://www.amarefs.org/FR19.pdf

 

So I suppose the interpretation of "obviously begins" is what's up in the air.

Looked obvious to me, one foot is extended out in front, while the knee of the trailing leg ALMOST touches the ground. 
 

It’s not a “slide” until his butt hits the ground…faking going down is no different than any other runner’s move with the ball.  If the defender hits him at any time before his ass hits the ground, then that’s a legal tackle. IMHO.

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Onboard 2.0

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19 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

You can’t “obviously begin” a slide without sliding. 

We’re never going to agree on this. What’s the point?

I'm sorry, that's exactly what a fake slide would be by its very definition.  You initiate a slide and (dropping a knee to the ground in that play) then you pull up, and continue running. It's not rocket science.  The video from the defenders side of the ball is pretty clear.

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SurlyORama

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On 12/5/2021 at 6:39 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

Flag it for unsportsmanlike 

Simply make ANY start of a slide (even if you don't COMPLETE it) down at the point. Easy.

Judgement calls will need to be made, like for any of a variety of other penalties. But egregious ones like this would be easily identified.

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stork642

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On 12/5/2021 at 6:23 PM, DigglerontheHoof said:

I think it was a bullshit move.  Defenders have to be hyper careful, in order not to get a penalty on a sliding QB.  It was clear the defender thought he was sliding a pulled up.  Should be a 15 yard penalty, just like the defender would've gotten if he'd hit him in the slide. 

Next time he does a slide I hope he gets lit up.  Bullshit pussy move.  As a defender I would rather get a 15 penalty than let the guy run for a long TD.  

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Js1

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23 minutes ago, stork642 said:

Next time he does a slide I hope he gets lit up.  Bullshit pussy move.  As a defender I would rather get a 15 penalty than let the guy run for a long TD.  

He seems like a smart kid, so he'll make sure to do it on a potential game winning or clinching drive for a free 15 yards.  

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Pig Bellmont

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3 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Check swings are not the MLB rule book, either.  

You’re right. It’s the exact same thing then.  “An attempt to strike at the ball” is exactly equivalent to “a live ball becomes dead… when a ball carrier obviously begins a feet first slide”.

 

Also, both happen at the exact frequency - you know a check swing compared to a QB slide after running past the line of scrimmage and there multiple times a game when a ref appeals to a different ref to rule on whether a slide was initiated or not. It’s a dumb comparison on every level 

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4th&Five

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4 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

When he started the slide the ball was dead and the refs fucked up by not calling it dead. Just yet another example that college football needs the NFL type replay review because it would have been reviewed since it was a touchdown. And on review it was obvious what he did. 

True. I wouldn’t expect refs to catch something like that in real time if they’d never seen it before. 

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On 12/6/2021 at 10:27 PM, Cairn Horn88 said:

It’s not a “slide” until his butt hits the ground…faking going down is no different than any other runner’s move with the ball.  If the defender hits him at any time before his ass hits the ground, then that’s a legal tackle. IMHO.

You're wrong.  If they hit him after the slide starts its a 15 yard penalty.

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Huckleberry

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54 minutes ago, JBJ said:

He started a slide.  The only reason this particular rule exists is because its an exception to normal ballcarrier down rules.  If you have to go down for it to be a slide, the rule makes no sense.

Correct. In the NFL the rule would have another purpose (not requiring contact by the defense to be down) but in college saying the play is over when they start the slide is only necessary if you're saying the action of sliding before something other than the hands or feet touches the ground. 

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mr. sunshine

mr. sunshine 2859

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On 12/7/2021 at 2:35 PM, Pam Cummings said:

Yes. He started swinging and then didn't. But i'm not seeing how this is relatable to the fake slide thing?

Yeah I don’t see the defense backs, linebackers, etc. just itching to light his ass up for a check swing either. Maybe the catcher make an unkind remark 

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