The Gun Owner’s thread

[Bozo_Casanova 26690]

51 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

My .357 New Vaquero:

That's what I'm talking about. 

[Armybrat 41038]

I put those $28 fake ivory grip panels on it. Didn’t care much for the factory laser-engraved star pattern originals.

Now about $710 plus tax & shipping at GrabaGun to your FFL.. It is the “Fast Draw” Talo special version of the NV model. The standard models have a slightly different contour hammer, and also come in blue and have 5.5” barrels available for about $40 less.

They also come in .45 colt.

Ruger increased their prices last year $50-$100 per gun for most of the revolvers.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Armybrat

[Pato del Muerto 52972]

I asked a friend to help out with my getting a deer tag, and he made it clear that when I talk to him he will make his case for me choosing 30/06 over 300 win mag. 
Seems like the largest differentiator is the  bigger kick from the win mag. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Pato del Muerto

[fattyflattie 4639]

A 30/06 could kill everything on your list, but recoil is not the only difference between those rounds. 300win is tremendously more versatile. 

[Pato del Muerto 52972]

3 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

A 30/06 could kill everything on your list, but recoil is not the only difference between those rounds. 300win is tremendously more versatile. 

Can you expound?  I’m not a part time police sniper or long range target shooter. 

[Speedtrucker 2085]

Can you expound?  I’m not a part time police sniper or long range target shooter. 

The basics:

 

.300 win mag is a magnum round with more powder and normally a heavier grain bullet. So it goes further is flatter and hits harder as a norm.

 

It is considered a more versatile round these days because you can really be effective out to 1200-1300 yards. The -06 is about 800-1000 yards.

 

I’ve looked at it as the 30-06 is a step down from the .300wm and the .308 is a step down from the 30-06. In terms of performance. Before you start reloading yourself.

[Pato del Muerto 52972]

So if I’m not shooting things a half mile away, there’s no practical difference in accuracy/precision performance?  And if I’m shooting deer/antelope/elk theres no difference in lethality if I have the correct cartridges?

[elguapo 4597]

34 minutes ago, Speedtrucker said:

The basics:

 

.300 win mag is a magnum round with more powder and normally a heavier grain bullet. So it goes further is flatter and hits harder as a norm.

 

It is considered a more versatile round these days because you can really be effective out to 1200-1300 yards. The -06 is about 800-1000 yards.

 

I’ve looked at it as the 30-06 is a step down from the .300wm and the .308 is a step down from the 30-06. In terms of performance. Before you start reloading yourself.

How many folks are actually going to be taking 1200-1300 yd shots while hunting though? After factoring in recoil, ammo availability and cost I'd probably go 30-06 or .308 for what Pato says he'll be using it for. 

[Speedtrucker 2085]

How many folks are actually going to be taking 1200-1300 yd shots while hunting though? After factoring in recoil, ammo availability and cost I'd probably go 30-06 or .308 for what Pato says he'll be using it for. 

Sure, I mean that’s why I went .308 and even after that went .308 pistol at 12.5”...

[BabaYaga 15419]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

So if I’m not shooting things a half mile away, there’s no practical difference in accuracy/precision performance?  And if I’m shooting deer/antelope/elk theres no difference in lethality if I have the correct cartridges?

This is correct.  My only issues with a .300 Win Mag is the "mag" part.  It can kick like a mule.  The lighter the rifle, the more the "felt" recoil.  "Flat" and "fast" aren't free - you are paying with a larger cartridge, more propellant, and more recoil to propel the round.

It can make you "flinchy" - a gun that kicks the shit out of you isn't a gun you are going to practice with extensively, which is what you need to be doing.  Honestly, not to spark a caliber debate, but for most everything in North America not named and Elk or Moose, look at a .270, which is nothing more than a necked down 30-06 case to fit a slightly smaller, and thus faster and flatter round.  Or a 7mm-08 (nothing more than a necked down .308 to the sale caliber as the .270 effectively).

Don't fall into the trap of needing "one gun" to hunt everything - it's overkill for the vast majority of what you will spend mot of your time hunting.  It works perfectly fine for Elk.  Moose.....maybe you need a little heavier round, but that is debatable.  Calibers are like golf clubs - the overwhelming majority of people are using way too much for what they need to get the job done and would perform better if they dialed it back.

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by BabaYaga

[BabaYaga 15419]

1 hour ago, elguapo said:

How many folks are actually going to be taking 1200-1300 yd shots while hunting though? After factoring in recoil, ammo availability and cost I'd probably go 30-06 or .308 for what Pato says he'll be using it for. 

ZERO.  You're a "hunter".  Not a sniper....and even many of them don't take shots on high value targets in the combat at those ranges....factoring in wind, elevation, etc.  The guys that can do that consistently are as rare as chicken lips.  

The point is to get close enough to take the most ethical shot you can.  This is why bow hunters are so specialized.  They have to get within 30-40 yds to make an ethical kill.  That takes an insane level of practice and repetition.

So realistically, unless you are hunting a managed exotic game ranch - in Texas it will be whitetail, mule deer, and maybe speed-goats (pronghorn).  

Any caliber between a 6mm to a 30-06 is fine.  Being a Jack Connor fanboy, I am partial to the venerable .270.  The 6.5 Creedmoor is all the rage right now.  It's a great hunting round as well and will give dirt-naps with the best of them.  

[Reagan1k 3026]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

Calibers are like golf clubs - the overwhelming majority of people are using way too much for what they need to get the job done and would perform better if they dialed it back.

To the point above, in this instance,  the most effective / lethal round is the one you can shoot accurately.   

Put either one in the right spot and it'll work.

We aren't comparing rimfire .22's to a .30 caliber magnum round here.  Neither is a bad choice.  Choose what you can and will become proficient with.

[BabaYaga 15419]

1 minute ago, Reagan1k said:

To the point above, in this instance,  the most effective / lethal round is the one you can shoot accurately.   

Put either one in the right spot and it'll work.

We aren't comparing rimfire .22's to a .30 caliber magnum round here.  Neither is a bad choice.  Choose what you can and will become proficient with.

My 22-250 with 55gr PSP's has killed more deer than all my other rifles combined.  I take neck shots exclusively unless the animal is not oriented properly and I know I can make a heart/lung shot.  In the last few years I have had exactly ONE deer make it out of the feeder pen.  Snap the spine at the base of the neck and shoulder blade.  They drop like a puppet with cut strings.  I'd never advocate this to a newer hunter as it increases the chances for wounding the animal.  The larger calibers imply overcome bad shot placement by increased kinetic energy and cavitation (shock).  That's it.  

The highlighted part above is why I don't like the big Mag rounds.  They are a PITA to practice with.  

[Jkwellborn 6897]

.30-06 will kill everything you listed. Pretty sure Jack O’Conner killed everything you listed with a .270. Proper bullet selection and shot placement is key.

Shooting that 300 gives you a little more margin for error, but it’s not gonna kill it any deader. If you are shooting at longer distances, I’d go with it.

[Bozo_Casanova 26690]

5 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

My 22-250 with 55gr PSP's has killed more deer than all my other rifles combined.  I take neck shots exclusively unless the animal is not oriented properly and I know I can make a heart/lung shot.  In the last few years I have had exactly ONE deer make it out of the feeder pen.  Snap the spine at the base of the neck and shoulder blade.  They drop like a puppet with cut strings.  I'd never advocate this to a newer hunter as it increases the chances for wounding the animal.  The larger calibers imply overcome bad shot placement by increased kinetic energy and cavitation (shock).  That's it.  

The highlighted part above is why I don't like the big Mag rounds.  They are a PITA to practice with.  

I appreciate this post.  My pal has a hunting ranch and every time I hear about some dumb asshole gut-shooting a buck  at 100 yards with a .300 it makes me ragey. Wrong gun, wrong everything. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Bozo_Casanova

[Bozo_Casanova 26690]

11 hours ago, Armybrat said:

Ruger increased their prices last year $50-$100 per gun for most of the revolvers.

Coincidentally, I have $50-$100. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

9 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Can you expound?  I’m not a part time police sniper or long range target shooter. 

Sure. It has nothing to do with 1000 yard shots.
 

You want to kill elk and potentially moose iirc?  A 300 win can shoot 150 grain 06 bullets, but an 06 doesn’t really do 250-grain upper end 300-win bullets.   If you are recoil sensitive, there are several things you can do from the physical gun you choose to technique to mitigate it. You can even brake it if you have to. I mean yeah, Roy Weatherby killed an elephants and Cape buffalos with a .257 wby.  Doesn’t mean a .404 wouldn’t be a better choice.   If your list had been whitetail, speed goat, and occasionally a mule deer, the first five responses likely would have been .270.  06 is an all day every day mule deer slayer, and will absolutely kill elk. I think you are light on moose personally, but sure it can be done.  Maybe call an outfitter in moose county and see what they think.  I’m guessing .338 is going to be a common answer.  

You are looking at 20% more recoil.  Neither gun is “light” recoil, necessarily.  Both are absolutely manageable.  30-06 was the gun I used to kill my first few deer at 12 or so.   See table below for hundreds of rounds in popular bullet weights and their recoil.  There’s probably 15-20 rounds on that list that would work for your original question.   

https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

 

 

 

[fattyflattie 4639]

34 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I appreciate this post.  My pal has a hunting ranch and every time I hear about some dumb asshole gut-shooting a buck  at 100 yards with a .300 it makes me ragey. Wrong gun, wrong everything. 

Ive lost count on how many deer I’ve tracked from little kids shooting 223 and 22-250.  Either are deadly af in the right hands, love me some neck/spine shots. But shit goes wrong in a hurry if you are just a bit off.  No different than a flinch from a magnum shooter. 

[Pato del Muerto 52972]

About the moose...the tags are hard to come by, and there’s not all that many specimens in the state so even getting a tag doesn’t mean you are likely to land an animal. And I wouldn’t even think about applying for a tag for several years. 

That said, it’s probably better to have the better deer gun and figure something out if/when I need something for a moose, rather than have something that puts a huge hole in deer just to be ready for a moose that might not ever happen.  Yeah?

[fattyflattie 4639]

Yes, I would tend to agree. My main point is that 30-06 and a 300win aren’t worlds apart.   If you are going to kill 10 deer to every elk, even better.   I’ve shot particular 270’s that recoil harder than my 300’s, etc.  Its all a balancing act and there are 100 different ways you could go. There isn’t a wrong answer in any of the suggestions the board has given you.  Either way you go, you’ll be fine.  I’d pick the 300, but I have both already. And about 10 others that are all fine for deer sized quarry. I don’t do the 1 gun deal, nttawwt.      
 

eta - make sure you are looking at 300 win numbers, not 300RUM. There is a BIG ass difference there.  

Edited May 21, 2020 by fattyflattie

[wesleywest 63]

3 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I appreciate this post.  My pal has a hunting ranch and every time I hear about some dumb asshole gut-shooting a buck  at 100 yards with a .300 it makes me ragey. Wrong gun, wrong everything. 

Wrong everything?  What kind of purist bullshit is that?  How about the dumb assholes that wound shit with 22-250’s cuz their shot was 3/4” off?  Plenty of them to go around too.  Not talking about Yaga.  Just in general.  

Nothing wrong about shooting whatever caliber you want (obv within reason).  Shit’s going to go wrong eventually.  It’s those lonely nights driving back to camp after screwing it all up that turn your dumb asshole magnum shooters into good magnum shooters and hunters.  

The campfire caliber police never fail to respond to a call about ballistics.

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26690]

5 hours ago, wesleywest said:

Wrong everything?  What kind of purist bullshit is that?  How about the dumb assholes that wound shit with 22-250’s cuz their shot was 3/4” off?  Plenty of them to go around too.  Not talking about Yaga.  Just in general.  

Nothing wrong about shooting whatever caliber you want (obv within reason).  Shit’s going to go wrong eventually.  It’s those lonely nights driving back to camp after screwing it all up that turn your dumb asshole magnum shooters into good magnum shooters and hunters.  

The campfire caliber police never fail to respond to a call about ballistics.

 

I agree with you completely. There are stories about Intuit hunting seal with the Nylon 66 (my personal favorite rifle ever). That’s a .22LR. I don’t have a problem with that, because they knew what they were doing and why.  
I’m talking about people who are indiscriminate about their choices and don’t take the time or effort to develop some basic competence before taking the shot.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Bozo_Casanova

[davidg 4041]

16 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

ZERO.  You're a "hunter".  Not a sniper....and even many of them don't take shots on high value targets in the combat at those ranges....factoring in wind, elevation, etc.  The guys that can do that consistently are as rare as chicken lips.  

Maybe only 8 or even 10 guys in the world who could even make that shot

[BabaYaga 15419]

10 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I appreciate this post.  My pal has a hunting ranch and every time I hear about some dumb asshole gut-shooting a buck  at 100 yards with a .300 it makes me ragey. Wrong gun, wrong everything. 

Ironically, many of the big Mag rounds are worse for thin-skinned deer because they pass right through, don't expand, and fail to dump their kinetic load.  Often this pass-through doesn't put the animal down and they run, get lost, etc.  

A smaller grain, moving slower, will "dump" almost all of it's kinetic energy at the first "pass" - the animal.  It will dump, expand, and the cavitation will do the rest.  Arrows kill by hemorrhaging.  The animal loses blood pressure rapidly and they lie down and never get back up.  Modern firearms kill by shock.  The round's energy has to be able to disrupt and destroy vital components of the animals ability to function.  These larger rounds bypass this by simply passing straight through (if no bone is struck) the animal which is not robust enough to facilitate expansion of the round.  Might as well be using FMJs.  Bigger isn't always better.  This is why the 30-06 will often put smaller animals down and the 300 won't.  It's moving slower and expands upon contact like it's supposed to.  

 

 

 

[BabaYaga 15419]

6 minutes ago, davidg said:

Maybe only 8 or even 10 guys in the world who could even make that shot

In stiff wind....

Edited May 21, 2020 by BabaYaga

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4980]

Another factor to consider would be that if you are planning on hunting elk you will probably be spending a lot of time hiking with your gun. So you will probably want something lighter. And a lighter rifle will have more felt recoil, so the difference in recoil for those calibers will be more pronounced.

[Reagan1k 3026]

So.....have we come to the conclusion / concensus that @Pato del Muerto really has only one choice? 

If he doesn't get a Genwerks Verdict in 300RPC with a Kahles K525i MOAK and lazer etched turret he'll probably never kill anything.

Pretty simple choice.  Then, all he has to do is periodically loan it out to all the "helpers" he's had on Surly as a thank you.

Seems not only reasonable but the prudent/responsible thing to do.....putting food on the table for his family in these uncertain times.

[krevo 142]

Snagged a P365XL and waiting on the Holosun 507k optic for it.  Love the ergos of this thing compared to the G43, plus the factory 12/15 round mags in something around the same size as the G43.  

[Lat22 4053]

1 hour ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Another factor to consider would be that if you are planning on hunting elk you will probably be spending a lot of time hiking with your gun. So you will probably want something lighter. And a lighter rifle will have more felt recoil, so the difference in recoil for those calibers will be more pronounced.

Recoil only matters when practicing.  I've never felt any recoil when shooting at an animal.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4980]

Yeah, but you have to practice with the gun you intend to hunt with. I guess you could weigh it down on a lead sled, but you still should practice shooting from positions like you would in the field.

[BabaYaga 15419]

1 hour ago, krevo said:

Snagged a P365XL and waiting on the Holosun 507k optic for it.  Love the ergos of this thing compared to the G43, plus the factory 12/15 round mags in something around the same size as the G43.  

Those are slick as kitten shit.  How does it conceal, say compared to a Shield or compact 365?  Is it that much larger?

[Jkwellborn 6897]

Maybe only 8 or even 10 guys in the world who could even make that shot

[Bozo_Casanova 26690]

On 5/20/2020 at 10:25 AM, Armybrat said:

I put those $28 fake ivory grip panels on it. Didn’t care much for the factory laser-engraved star pattern originals.

Now about $710 plus tax & shipping at GrabaGun to your FFL.. It is the “Fast Draw” Talo special version of the NV model. The standard models have a slightly different contour hammer, and also come in blue and have 5.5” barrels available for about $40 less.

They also come in .45 colt.

Ruger increased their prices last year $50-$100 per gun for most of the revolvers.

Hey I found some grips with your ex-girlfriend's picture on them. 

[krevo 142]

36 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Those are slick as kitten shit.  How does it conceal, say compared to a Shield or compact 365?  Is it that much larger?

Its got a .7" longer slide and .5" longer grip if I remember correctly (compared to regular 365)

Same width.  It conceals very well due to how slim it is.  Great summer gun.  As I mentioned earlier, it comes pre-milled with an optic cut and comes with all metal 3 dot night sights than can be used to cowitness through the optic.

 

Also - I thought the flat trigger was kind of gimmicky, but after shooting the gun I'm pleasantly surprised.  There is a little mush leading up to the break, but it breaks right around 90 degrees and is only around 4lbs.   I like it better than the G43 factory trigger. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by krevo

[Pato del Muerto 52972]

Sorry to burst bubbles, but friend is selling me his savage 30-06 with a case and some ammo for $400. I shall take my savings and invest in an optic. 

[Speedtrucker 2085]

Sorry to burst bubbles, but friend is selling me his savage 30-06 with a case and some ammo for $400. I shall take my savings and invest in an optic. 

That’s why he was gonna give you the rundown on why -06 is better.

Probably gonna put the $400 towards his new .300wm he’s preparing to buy.

Lol!

I’ll also say the biggest mistake I had was selling a gun... a .270 tack driver no less.

[fattyflattie 4639]

15 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Sorry to burst bubbles, but friend is selling me his savage 30-06 with a case and some ammo for $400. I shall take my savings and invest in an optic. 

No bubbles bursted here friend.  I’m certain most on this thread have at least one ‘06 in the safe. Put as much glass on it as you can. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

4 minutes ago, Speedtrucker said:

I’ll also say the biggest mistake I had was selling a gun... a .270 tack driver no less.

Wait, guns can be sold? I just always figured my wife was full of shit. 

[Pato del Muerto 52972]

11 minutes ago, Speedtrucker said:

That’s why he was gonna give you the rundown on why -06 is better.

Probably gonna put the $400 towards his new .300wm he’s preparing to buy.

Lol!

I’ll also say the biggest mistake I had was selling a gun... a .270 tack driver no less.

Actually he is a prepper and as such the availability of ammo- not just at stores but scavenged in the event of TSHTF- is a big driver in his caliber choices.  He is selling this one because he gave up on his idea of learning to shoot right handed. Since he probably has thousands of 30-06 he will probably just by a left handed model. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Pato del Muerto

[BabaYaga 15419]

11 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Actually he is a prepper and as such the availability of ammo- not just at stores but scavenged in the event of TSHSF- is a big driver in his caliber choices.  He is selling this one because he gave up on his idea of learning to shoot right handed. Since he probably has thousands of 30-06 he will probably just by a left handed model. 

Sounds like a good plan.  '06 is never a bad choice.  Pair it with a mid-range caliber like a .243/6mm and you are good to go pretty much forever.....until the itch strikes again....which it will!

[BayouBill 835]

Just ordered a Saint AR-15 Pistol in .300 BLK...gives me about 2 weeks to plan how to sneak it past wife.

[Jkwellborn 6897]

I don’t have a 06 and doubt I ever buy one unless it’s a Garand. The next one I shoot and like will be the first. My next rifle will be a .308.

[Reagan1k 3026]

2 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Actually he is a prepper and as such the availability of ammo- not just at stores but scavenged in the event of TSHTF- is a big driver in his caliber choices.  He is selling this one because he gave up on his idea of learning to shoot right handed. Since he probably has thousands of 30-06 he will probably just by a left handed model. 

Man - a left handed prepper selling a right handed rifle.  What happens if he hurts his left hand in the apocalypse?

Good news for you - Poor planning on his part. 

Maybe just pay him in toilet paper if you have a few extra rolls.  Sounds about even to me.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Reagan1k

[Speedtrucker 2085]

Wait, guns can be sold? I just always figured my wife was full of shit. 

Like the joke goes, my greatest fear is my wife selling my firearms for what I told her I paid...

[Pato del Muerto 52972]

8 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

Man - a left handed prepper selling a right handed rifle.  What happens if he hurts his left hand in the apocalypse?

Good news for you - Poor planning on his part. 

Maybe just pay him in toilet paper if you have a few extra rolls.  Sounds about even to me.

Probably wanted to shoot right handed exactly for that reason, or because most found rifles would be right handed. 

[Armybrat 41038]

3 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Sounds like a good plan.  '06 is never a bad choice.  Pair it with a mid-range caliber like a .243/6mm and you are good to go pretty much forever.....until the itch strikes again....which it will!

I gave my son a vintage Belgian Browning Safari bolt action .243 in mint condition to pair with his early 1980s remington 700 BDL. .30-06. 
He prefers the Browning for Whitetail.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Armybrat

[4th and 5 4928]

the primary reason for getting a 30-06 is this:

 

 

 

[krevo 142]

57 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

I gave my son a vintage Belgian Browning Safari bolt action .243 in mint condition to pair with his early 1980s remington 700 BDL. .30-06. 
He prefers the Browning for Whitetail.

do you ever not give a gun to your kids?

[BabaYaga 15419]

5 minutes ago, krevo said:

do you ever not give a gun to your kids?

Blasphemy!  

 

 

 

[Armybrat 41038]

I still have plenty to give them, plus I don’t shoot much any more.... and haven’t been in a deer blind in 30 years.
But it is still fun to buy a good gun at a bargain price whether I need it or not. 
Am starting now with the grandsons, and they like guns.