The Gun Owner’s thread

[Bozo_Casanova 26510]

1 hour ago, BHMCruiser said:

SAAMI filed suit along with NSSF

There is a patent on the technology but it has not been reduced to practice by anybody ever. Including the patent holder. 

 

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

It doesn't exist because it's unnecessary.  MIcro-stamping mates the chamber and the cartridge.....which already exists via ballistic comparisons on the ejector patterns.  This is like requiring a voter registration card for everyone printed on gold leaf.  It just makes it prohibitively expensive to manufacture.  

Further, it's woefully unreliable and again, cost prohibitive.  A firing pin is just a small pin.  What stops you from swapping out the pins?

This is from a Glock....not exactly an internal component piece from a Breitling.  Anyone with a lathe could turn out thousands of these.

I understand and agree. I do admit that conceptually it's an interesting and appealing alternative to ballistic comparisons, markings etc. But it doesn't seem practical at all. 

[BabaYaga 15302]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

What makes you not just file it a bit?

Same issue you wife has

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not long enough......:)

 

 

 

 

 

I'll see myself out

[Johnny Sack 8397]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Thanks, I'll check the entire assembly.  The optics package as a whole was "mid-range" when we put it on.....20+ years ago at Carter Country.  Like I said, they've performed pretty flawlessly for decades (I have the same setup on my .300 Weatherby Mag, and I've made spot-on 250 yard shots with that one), but it never hurts to check every component.

Bet you have a loose ring.  About 20 years ago I go into a wreck when some dickhead lost control of his vehicle driving too fast on ice.  He hit me almost head on in a brand new 3/4 pickup I had just bought.  My rifle was in the back of my truck in a hard case (no idea why I thought that was a good idea) and it was ejected from the bed, the case hit the highway, opened, and my rifle was laying on the road.  A few days later we went to our ranch in South Texas.  I went to the range and shot to make sure the wreck had not messed it up.  2 inches above dead center of bullseye, like I always had it.  Went hunting that night and an 8 point crab claw cull walks out.  I shoot and he's laying dead under the feeder.  I was shooting off a sandbag and had a perfect rest at 100 yards.  

I walk up to the deer and I hit him square in the back hip.  So what, about 3-4 feet off the front shoulder I was aiming at?  Guess it hit an artery because he was stone dead and did not take a step.

My scope rings were loose from the wreck.  Tightened them up and there were no problems.  Should have shot twice on the range.

[BabaYaga 15302]

19 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Thanks, I'll check the entire assembly.  The optics package as a whole was "mid-range" when we put it on.....20+ years ago at Carter Country.  Like I said, they've performed pretty flawlessly for decades (I have the same setup on my .300 Weatherby Mag, and I've made spot-on 250 yard shots with that one), but it never hurts to check every component.

Two decades?  Might be time to upgrade the rings anyway.  Vortex, Leo, Burris, Nikon.  All the known names make superb rings that you can count on.  They are the most overlooked part of shooting with optics and aren't expensive at all.  Like new tires on a new truck with chiity shocks/struts.  

It's also thin metal.  Decades of wear can engender micro-fractures as well.  

Edited February 8, 2021 by BabaYaga

[Lat22 4015]

If only I could have the ammo back that I burned after having a loose ring or mount or rail.

[pepper brooks 580]

I have a new larue 65 Grendel with 18 inch barrel and a Larue 300 blackout with 14 inch barrel.  I need optics for both.  Don't think i need to spend a fortune on either but what do i know.  What is the surly consensus here?

[TexasEd 8067]

On 2/7/2021 at 11:30 AM, Brisketexan said:

Took the boy to the range to try out his MAS 49/56. It’s a shooter. We had some federal lead tip .308 (thanks TexasEd) and some Winchester ballistic tip (thanks handcruser). The lead tip would have a cycling issue occasionally, the ballistic tip ran smoothly. Got it mostly dialed in at 50 yards (open sights), will need to refine it further when we get more ammo.

The boy also enjoyed the fact that three different people came up to ask about his gun, as it’s kinda unusual to see out there. Good conversations with folks (led to a side conversation with the boy on the way home about the politics - he loves shooting recreationally, would even like to get into shooting sports....but laments how they have become SO associated with a particular political lean. But I digress - it was just an interesting, grown up conversation). It was just a nice day, kinda social, all that.

I also shot my 30/06, which sure enough, was shooting a few inches right and 5 inches low. I got it centered, but ran out of ammo before I could fix the elevation. So, need to find a few boxes of ammo to finish, and then have on hand for hunting.

Grabbed some Blacks bbq on the way home for dinner. Good stuff.

What do you think the issue was with the lead tip ammo?  What else was different in bullet weight or case type between them? 

[Brisketexan 105177]

14 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

What do you think the issue was with the lead tip ammo?  What else was different in bullet weight or case type between them? 

I'm pretty sure that as it would feed the next round, as the bolt shoved the round forward into the chamber, the lead tip would sometimes get mashed, and then stuck right below the chamber.  Whereas the plastic/teflon/whatever ballistic tips stayed pointy and slick, they slid right in (that's what she said).  That's my hypothesis, at least.

[TexasEd 8067]

6 hours ago, BHMCruiser said:

SAAMI filed suit along with NSSF

There is a patent on the technology but it has not been reduced to practice by anybody ever. Including the patent holder. 

I would argue that there is less value in the stamping of the firing pin on the primer than there would be in the marking of the bullet to the gun. Is the firing pin mark to figure out that gun A shot 5 rounds and gun B shot 9?  Often that can be done by the fact that they may be different calibers, manufacturers or ammo lines (Federal vs Remington vs Winchester or WWB vs Silvertip vs Defense).

In the case where several people shoot into a building with the same caliber and model ammo (Everyone has WWB); When one bullet strikes and kills a person, how do you know who fired the fatal shot versus the near misses?  If you have bullet tracking technology how does that work when you have fragmenting bullets or bullets that go through a wall fragment and then hit a person in an artery or an eye?

Maybe I'm just not understanding what they are trying to accomplish here. Unless the motive is to just make it cost more.

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by TexasEd

[BabaYaga 15302]

7 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

I would argue that there is less value in the stamping of the firing pin on the primer than there would be in the marking of the bullet to the gun. Is the firing pin mark to figure out that gun A shot 5 rounds and gun B shot 9?  Often that can be done by the fact that they may be different calibers, manufacturers or ammo lines (Federal vs Remington vs Winchester or WWB vs Silvertip vs Defense).

In the case where several people shoot into a building with the same caliber and model ammo (Everyone has WWB); When one bullet strikes and kills a person, how do you know who fired the fatal shot versus the near misses?  If you have bullet tracking technology how does that work when you have fragmenting bullets or bullets that go through a wall fragment and then hit a person in an artery or an eye?

Maybe I'm just not understanding what they are trying to accomplish here. Unless the motive is to just make it cost more.

 

Stamping mates the ejected cartridge to the gun via a "stamp" in the indention on the primer where the pin strike happens.  The bullet itself can be currently matched with rifling patterns.  Reason this is stupid, besides it being childishly easy to swap pins, even with the original stamped pin, it's unreliable.  More so than the current matching from the spend casing and the ejector patterns from the gun.  It's a solution in search of a problem that already has a solution.  

This all assumes the owner of the gun is the original owner - the VAST majority of firearm crimes are with lost or stolen items.  Criminal wants to beat rifling forensics for example, they can use "lip stick" rounds, or rounds covered in a synthetic jacket.  Really smart ones, would keep multiple pins to provide their own alibi.  Dummy pins for all their shady murderin', then swap back the original to "prove" it couldn't be the one used.  

 

[BHMCruiser 1814]

31 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

I would argue that there is less value in the stamping of the firing pin on the primer than there would be in the marking of the bullet to the gun. Is the firing pin mark to figure out that gun A shot 5 rounds and gun B shot 9?  Often that can be done by the fact that they may be different calibers, manufacturers or ammo lines (Federal vs Remington vs Winchester or WWB vs Silvertip vs Defense).

In the case where several people shoot into a building with the same caliber and model ammo (Everyone has WWB); When one bullet strikes and kills a person, how do you know who fired the fatal shot versus the near misses?  If you have bullet tracking technology how does that work when you have fragmenting bullets or bullets that go through a wall fragment and then hit a person in an artery or an eye?

Maybe I'm just not understanding what they are trying to accomplish here. Unless the motive is to just make it cost more.

 

The purpose is to make things harder on law-abiding gun owners and ultimately get rid of guns, except maybe some sporting firearms. That's why they chose non-existent technology. There's a pretextual nod to "public safety." It's like DC's firearms registry. The DC AG said it was so the police could check it when they got a call and cross-reference the address to see if they were approaching a person who had a firearm. That makes sense, right? Except that the police do not do that, and never did. 

[Reagan1k 3024]

1 hour ago, TexasEd said:

Maybe I'm just not understanding what they are trying to accomplish here. Unless the motive is to just make it cost more.

It's the long game.  As was debated upthread, a lot of small "reasonable" (on their face value) compromises that appear to be hard to argue "if you aren't doing something wrong.." end up being death by a thousand paper cuts. 

[Handcruser 2805]

I have a new larue 65 Grendel with 18 inch barrel and a Larue 300 blackout with 14 inch barrel.  I need optics for both.  Don't think i need to spend a fortune on either but what do i know.  What is the surly consensus here?

Blackout go NV if you hunt. If not remember that’s a 200 yard gun.
If your using the grendel out past 400 I like vortex.

[fattyflattie 4639]

9 hours ago, Lat22 said:

If only I could have the ammo back that I burned after having a loose ring or mount or rail.

He’ll be able to nab another box before next deer season, maybe. 
 

@Brisketexan I’ve been really happy with Talley rings on the last few. 

[Armybrat 40856]

All you need to know what’s in store for the law-abiding gun owners is right here:

https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/
 

National registration... the precursor for confiscation everywhere it has been put into effect. Anyone who says different, including “fact check”, is either full of shit or in complete denial. They can parse their words all they want, it is what it is.

[BHMCruiser 1814]

I need a deer hunting rifle for my 13-year-old, who is left-handed (the bastard). I want something that is effective but doesn't have too much recoil. How is the 6.5 Creedmoor as a deer gun?

 

For sake of comparison, I'm a .270 guy.

Edited February 9, 2021 by BHMCruiser

[fattyflattie 4639]

25 minutes ago, BHMCruiser said:

I need a deer hunting rifle for my 13-year-old, who is left-handed (the bastard). I want something that is effective but doesn't have too much recoil. How is the 6.5 Creedmoor as a deer gun?

 

For sake of comparison, I'm a .270 guy.

You can’t swing a stick without hitting a fan-boi. I did watch watch a YouTube vid awhile back where they compared it to a .270 across the board, and it kinda whipped the ol 270’s ass tbh.  Colored me surprised. 
 

Eta: 6.5 likely more versatile, but a few of my friends with kids that age all shoot 7-08.   They like em. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by fattyflattie

[Handcruser 2805]

I need a deer hunting rifle for my 13-year-old, who is left-handed (the bastard). I want something that is effective but doesn't have too much recoil. How is the 6.5 Creedmoor as a deer gun?
 
For sake of comparison, I'm a .270 guy.

7-08 is a great round for that age. Mild recoil, good ammo selection, and will do its job.

6.5C has a mild recoil. I have one by primary weapons systems. If he gets a creedmoor he’ll use it forever. It’s a great cartridge. Ballistics are fantastic. Shoots straight. And will take anything in The lower 48.

Can’t go wrong with either but he’ll probably want to move up in a few years from the 7-08.

[crimsonlonghorn 2306]

21 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

All you need to know what’s in store for the law-abiding gun owners is right here:

https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/
 

National registration... the precursor for confiscation everywhere it has been put into effect. Anyone who says different, including “fact check”, is either full of shit or in complete denial. They can parse their words all they want, it is what it is.

"Weapons of War" LOL. Anytime I see that I know that the person saying it has no personal experience with a MSR and instead just thinks they look scary. Same with "assault weapon". 

The rest of that stuff is the same kind of hyperbole, but I'll say again that the most likely one of these is the ban of online ammo sales, or at the very least home delivery and you have to go to an FFL just like for a gun. My MIL, god bless her, is a rich white liberal lady so she believes all of the nonsense she is told and she thinks it's absolutely horrifying that ammunition can be delivered in the mail. 

[Armybrat 40856]

15 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

You can’t swing a stick without hitting a fan-boi. I did watch watch a YouTube vid awhile back where they compared it to a .270 across the board, and it kinda whipped the ol 270’s ass tbh.  Colored me surprised. 
 

Eta: 6.5 likely more versatile, but a few of my friends with kids that age all shoot 7-08.   They like em. 

Never see any love for the .25-06.

[BabaYaga 15302]

18 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm pretty sure that as it would feed the next round, as the bolt shoved the round forward into the chamber, the lead tip would sometimes get mashed, and then stuck right below the chamber.  Whereas the plastic/teflon/whatever ballistic tips stayed pointy and slick, they slid right in (that's what she said).  That's my hypothesis, at least.

Have a smith possibly look at polishing the throat/feed-ramp to help feed better.  Military grade weapons made for ball ammo will have those issues.  

[BabaYaga 15302]

55 minutes ago, BHMCruiser said:

I need a deer hunting rifle for my 13-year-old, who is left-handed (the bastard). I want something that is effective but doesn't have too much recoil. How is the 6.5 Creedmoor as a deer gun?

 

For sake of comparison, I'm a .270 guy.

.243 would be my choice.  Necked down 7-08.  Flat and fast and a very common caliber found in normal markets most anywhere.  

[BabaYaga 15302]

15 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Never see any love for the .25-06.

Poor man's .257 Weatherby.  Necked down .270, it's a great, great round.  Flat and fast.  Perfect for Texas.  Boils down to whether you like a long-action (parent 30-06 cartridge) or a short-action (parent .308 cartridge).

[BHMCruiser 1814]

I was thinking .243 as well, but then I thought if I got him a 6.5 he could use it forever. Thanks for all the replies. 

 

I may just get him a .270 and tell him that's what deer hunters shoot and if he doesn't like it he can go take ballet.

[BabaYaga 15302]

7 minutes ago, BHMCruiser said:

I was thinking .243 as well, but then I thought if I got him a 6.5 he could use it forever. Thanks for all the replies. 

 

I may just get him a .270 and tell him that's what deer hunters shoot and if he doesn't like it he can go take ballet.

You just don't want a young shooter to develop shot anticipation and start flinching.  It's a bitch of a bad habit to break.  I also like a smaller caliber that forces proper placement.  .270 gives him a larger margin for error, allowing for less precise shots.  Started my 14yr old with a .223 shooting 62gr PSPs.  He HAS to make the shot, and he knows it.  Ruger Predator with a entry level to mid tier Vortex scope would be an ideal rifle that will last a lifetime.  

Edited February 9, 2021 by BabaYaga

[fattyflattie 4639]

29 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Never see any love for the .25-06.

I love the 25-06, but that puppy has some kick, at least mine does.  I took it as he was looking for lower recoil since his kid was young. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

13 minutes ago, BHMCruiser said:

I was thinking .243 as well, but then I thought if I got him a 6.5 he could use it forever. Thanks for all the replies. 

 

I may just get him a .270 and tell him that's what deer hunters shoot and if he doesn't like it he can go take ballet.

Anything I would shoot with a 6.5CM, I wouldn’t hesitate shooting with a .243   I know the CM can handle a bit heavier bullet and has better #’s but they fall into the same general category for me.  I’m not taking either elk hunting, even though they could both “handle it”. 
 

lol ballet.   Get him a 6.5, 243, 7-08, or 308 and he should be set for whitetail hunting until he takes up a .270 (if he ever even wants to).   I’ve been reducing my recoil as I get older.  My .02 

[BHMCruiser 1814]

All good points. We had a shot at a nice deer this weekend with my .270 but I knew he was not ready so we just watched. Got him fired up for next season, though (which was the point). 

Between now and next season I'm going to let him shoot about 1000 rounds of 5.56 and then move him up to .243 or 6.5. Like everything else, the secret to shooting is shooting. I have put countless rounds through my .270 but didn't shoot it for about five years until this season. Took it to the range, sub 1" group at 100 yards. Just plain old muscle memory.

[Reagan1k 3024]

One cannot honestly argue that the .243 or 7mm-08 wouldn't be excellent to perfect.  .243 wins on universal ammo availability (in normal times) & 7mm-08 wins in selection of various grain weight bullets.

I will say this.  I have a buddy who shoots a lot with a 6.5 Grendel on an AR platform, and he got his son a Howa Mini-Action in 6.5 Grendel bolt rifle so they could share ammo. That is a sweet, minimal recoil, carbine sized rifle that is a joy to shoot.  CZ makes one too and they are great little rifles.  Ammo is a concern, as it isn't going to be on the shelf in a random hardware store like a .243, but its a deer killing round and would be great for a small framed shooter.

[CHIEF 5094]

I carry my old .243 more than my Sako .300 WSM, I started hunting with it at six, probably still my favorite gun I own. 
CHIEF

[Speedtrucker 2072]

I started with a .243, in fact I shot it before I started plinking with a .22lr.

Eventually moved up to a .270 and now I have a .308 12.5” pistol I hunt with. Lol

[bigshark88 388]

Just throwing this out there: is there a cartridge performance reason the boy couldn't tote a 30-30 for a few seasons?

[BHMCruiser 1814]

45 minutes ago, bigshark88 said:

Just throwing this out there: is there a cartridge performance reason the boy couldn't tote a 30-30 for a few seasons?

Because I don't have one and can't think of any reason to buy one since we routinely have 300 yard shots here. I want something that's got some decent ballistics.

[Armybrat 40856]

The .30-30 is fine for Whitetail out to 200 yards. This article has a good look at it:

http://www.outdoorlife.com/lever-action-30-30-winchester-is-still-one-best-deer-hunting-rifles-and-heres-why/

[Gladeite 375]

As a fellow lefty, a left hand Savage Axis is cheap, reliable and extremely accurate.  .223, .243, 7/08, will work wonders on white tail.  I load a 75 grain .223 soft point that will exit 80% of the time.  No recoil to speak of.  I think that is very important with a young hunter.  

[fattyflattie 4639]

4 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

That is a sweet, minimal recoil, carbine sized rifle that is a joy to shoot.  CZ makes one too and they are great little rifles.  Ammo is a concern, as it isn't going to be on the shelf in a random hardware store like a .243, but its a deer killing round and would be great for a small framed shooter.

I bought a model 7 .243 for my oldest (when she was like 9 mos old) with really really nice factory wood.  But that damn thing carries so well, and just goes where you point it. She might not get it until a bit later now ha.  Little too nice for a kid.  Only thing with it is it really loves small pills. It’s not bad with deer loads, but it’s a shame to not shoot the small stuff thru it. 

[bigshark88 388]

I've come to value 7.62mm holes in critters vs 6.5mm holes. When knocking down deer I have subscribed to the "no replacement for displacement" theory.

That keeps me on the sidelines for the new, wiz bang, gun magazine, 6.5mms they're hawking but oh well.

A buddy of mine was in the same situation and he found a break action 7mm/08 for his son. He eventually bought a 243 bolt gun from me because the handi rifle 08 was kicking his kid too hard.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

7.62 mm holes are nice, but there's just something satisfying about .54 Caliber holes.

[4th and 5 4915]

7mm-08 bolt action Savage with Hornady reduced recoil ammo is great for a kid.

[Reagan1k 3024]

22 hours ago, BHMCruiser said:

I need a deer hunting rifle for my 13-year-old, who is left-handed (the bastard). I want something that is effective but doesn't have too much recoil. How is the 6.5 Creedmoor as a deer gun?

 

For sake of comparison, I'm a .270 guy.

CZ 527    Helluva little left handed rifle.  I've killed lots of deer with good .223 loads.  He could practice his ass off without getting beat up.  Many might say .223 is a marginal whitetail round, but having "guided" a lot of inexperienced hunters, I'd much rather them shoot a marginal round well, than a larger round poorly.

[Jkwellborn 6713]

Shot placement is key. Especially with smaller rounds.

[markstanco 12586]

22 hours ago, BHMCruiser said:

I need a deer hunting rifle for my 13-year-old, who is left-handed (the bastard). I want something that is effective but doesn't have too much recoil. How is the 6.5 Creedmoor as a deer gun?

 

For sake of comparison, I'm a .270 guy.

I have a 12.5 year old that I too am about to get a rifle for.  After talking to a gunsmith buddy, he too recommended a 6.5.  He said if in an AR platform go with the 20" barrel, but suggested a Tikka T3 Lite stainless (6.5 new to this platform).  I have a T3 Lite stainless in a 7MM Rem (tricked out a bit) and I love the gun.  Tack driver.  

[Jkwellborn 6713]

Damn a 20” is gonna be a bitch in a deer stand. Especially if you ever thread it and slap a suppressor on it.

[BabaYaga 15302]

1 hour ago, Reagan1k said:

CZ 527    Helluva little left handed rifle.  I've killed lots of deer with good .223 loads.  He could practice his ass off without getting beat up.  Many might say .223 is a marginal whitetail round, but having "guided" a lot of inexperienced hunters, I'd much rather them shoot a marginal round well, than a larger round poorly.

I'm a huge fan of everything CZ.  As stated, this is what I did, except it was a Remington.  62gr PSP's are nasty on upper shoulder and neck shots.

Filets and Suntory, why not.....

  

[fattyflattie 4639]

30 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I'm a huge fan of everything CZ. 

Me too. I’ve been shopping for the right 457 for awhile.  Moving the kids up from the target .22 to that, so they can stretch out a bit further, and most importantly, I’ve always wanted a .17 and don’t have one. 

[Reagan1k 3024]

I wouldn't say CZ is underrated, because no one questions their quality.  Underappreciated may be more appropo.

Handguns and rifles and rifles both.

Same could be said for Howa rifles.  No one questions the quality of CZ or Howa, they just don't receive the attention they deserve (although CZ has a huge following in the race gun market).

[Carl Spackler 3488]

48 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I'm a huge fan of everything CZ.  As stated, this is what I did, except it was a Remington.  62gr PSP's are nasty on upper shoulder and neck shots.

Filets and Suntory, why not.....

  

[BabaYaga 15302]

2 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Encapsulates my COVID diet and actions:  whisky, steak, and gunpowder.  

[Bozo_Casanova 26510]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

I'm a huge fan of everything CZ. 

 

55 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Me too. I’ve been shopping for the right 457 for awhile.  Moving the kids up from the target .22 to that, so they can stretch out a bit further, and most importantly, I’ve always wanted a .17 and don’t have one. 

 

48 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

I wouldn't say CZ is underrated, because no one questions their quality.  Underappreciated may be more appropo.

Handguns and rifles and rifles both.

 

So I'm thinking about buying a CZ .457 Jaguar 22lr, mainly on the strength of the sights. But is there any downside to a 28.5" barrel that I can't overcome with hotter ammo? It looks good, but man that is LONG. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

On 2/9/2021 at 9:57 AM, BHMCruiser said:

I need a deer hunting rifle for my 13-year-old, who is left-handed (the bastard). I want something that is effective but doesn't have too much recoil. How is the 6.5 Creedmoor as a deer gun?

 

For sake of comparison, I'm a .270 guy.

Get an AR.  Stock is adjustable and almost no recoil.  I have a 308 AR my kids shoot and barely flinch.  My daughter is 9.  I would do an AR in the 308 or 6.5 Grendel.