The Gun Owner’s thread

[Handcruser 2805]

Eh, I get it, I really do, but (approaches third rail ever so gently) to me the 1911 takes you in a straight line to a CZ-75 or a CZ-97 if you want a .45.
 

1911’s are funny to me.

John Moses Browning is considered the godfather of automatic pistols. He makes the 1911 and hates it.

Entire world loves the 1911.

JMB makes the hi-power and loves it.

Most of the world hates the hi-power.

I like 1911’s for the nostalgia and awesomeness of the platform - but they have their quirks. I’ll always have one and you don’t need to spend a ton of money to get a good one. But the high dollar ones are incredible.

[fattyflattie 4639]

48 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

1911s will suck you in and ruin you on every other pistol platform.  Even on the lower-mid tier options, you won't find a better trigger and ease of shooting.  The weight/heft and trigger make them so easy to shoot well.  

My first pistol was a Sig 1911 and to this day, I shoot this better than anything else I own.  As is the case with everything, it depends upon your budget.  If I was looking at $1K+, my first choice would be Dan Wesson or Colt Gold Cup.  Beyond that you have all the big boys:  Nighthawk, Wilson, Les Baer, etc.

Went back and found the spreadsheet I built.   Looks like a buy, once cry once situation. Nighthawk, Ed brown, Les Baer were leading the pack when something else turned my eye.  

[BabaYaga 15301]

23 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Went back and found the spreadsheet I built.   Looks like a buy, once cry once situation. Nighthawk, Ed brown, Les Baer were leading the pack when something else turned my eye.  

That's the thing with a decent, mid-level 1911.  You'll never cry.  Those guns will outshoot you - meaning unless you train constantly, the tighter groups of the higher end options are unattainable to the average shooter.  On paper my Sig "can" group at under 3 inches at 25yds.  There's no way I can group that tight at that range so the accuracy is wasn't on me personally.

They are truly works of art, but offer very little in terms of performance.  

It's among the largest of rabbit holes you can go down, so if you are in, buckle up.  

[fattyflattie 4639]

10 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

That's the thing with a decent, mid-level 1911.  You'll never cry.  Those guns will outshoot you - meaning unless you train constantly, the tighter groups of the higher end options are unattainable to the average shooter.  On paper my Sig "can" group at under 3 inches at 25yds.  There's no way I can group that tight at that range so the accuracy is wasn't on me personally.

They are truly works of art, but offer very little in terms of performance.  

It's among the largest of rabbit holes you can go down, so if you are in, buckle up.  

That’s how it feels when I go from shooting my HK to this Staccato.  I really, really like that HK and the way it fits and shoots.  Then…whole other world with that P. 

[BabaYaga 15301]

52 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Eh, I get it, I really do, but (approaches third rail ever so gently) to me the 1911 takes you in a straight line to a CZ-75 or a CZ-97 if you want a .45.

I love everything about CZ.  If had to pick one line for every firearm I owned, it would be CZ (who owns Dan Wesson BTW).  That being said, the 75 and 97 are different guns than the 1911.  The main difference is the mag (obviously), grip angle, and trigger.  

Specifically, the 75 is a 9mm.  The 75B is .45acp, but was recently discontinued.  Same with the 97 unless I missed something?

[BabaYaga 15301]

37 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Then…whole other world with that P. 

My life did change when I got my first taste of P.....;)

[Bozo_Casanova 26488]

3 hours ago, Handcruser said:

I like 1911’s for the nostalgia and awesomeness of the platform - but they have their quirks. I’ll always have one and you don’t need to spend a ton of money to get a good one. But the high dollar ones are incredible.

Agree, although because of the history my favorite 1911 is the bare bones Rock Island 1911 GI Standard, because it seems like that's as close as you can get to the historical service pistol. 
That said, to me the Hi-Power is an improvement on the 1911, and I guess if you squint a little the CZ-75 seems to be an improved descendant in that bloodline, even aesthetics aside. 
 

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

The 75B is .45acp, but was recently discontinued.  Same with the 97 unless I missed something?

97 was the .45acp and sadly discontinued. I was going to buy the last new one I saw, but the McBrides of it all that day was too much. 

[Bevo&Pevo 5205]

Time to get in the "Wayback Machine" Sherman.  We are going back to the 1870's give or take a year or two.  Supposedly, IIRC, someone in the family it was made about then.   What we have here is a .32 rimfire single shot Model 2 Rolling Block Remington.  Belonged to my great Opa, now passed down to my care.

[BabaYaga 15301]

2 minutes ago, Bevo&Pevo said:

Time to get in the "Wayback Machine" Sherman.  We are going back to the 1870's give or take a year or two.  Supposedly, IIRC, someone in the family it was made about then.   What we have here is a .32 rimfire single shot Model 2 Rolling Block Remington.  Belonged to my great Opa, now passed down to my care.

Beautiful!  Love old guns!

[Fondren & Main 6725]

I had an M&P40 and have a VP9.  Love both.

[BabaYaga 15301]

47 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

I had an M&P40 and have a VP9.  Love both.

Yep, at the end of the day it's just a matter of personal preference and being comfortable with your choice.  Almost every major manufacturer makes a decent, affordable striker-fired polymer option.  

Except the Ruger LCP:  "Little Crappy Pistol"

I said it!  Fight me @Armybrat

[Fondren & Main 6725]

Fuck Ruger! @Armybrat

[Armybrat 40851]

4 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Yep, at the end of the day it's just a matter of personal preference and being comfortable with your choice.  Almost every major manufacturer makes a decent, affordable striker-fired polymer option.  

Except the Ruger LCP:  "Little Crappy Pistol"

I said it!  Fight me @Armybrat

Fun gun, but it is hammer fired.

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Armybrat

[Armybrat 40851]

3 hours ago, Fondren & Main said:

Fuck Ruger! @Armybrat

💩

[Anastasis 23475]

6 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Agree, although because of the history my favorite 1911 is the bare bones Rock Island 1911 GI Standard, because it seems like that's as close as you can get to the historical service pistol. 

My remington rand 1911. Serial number indicates a 1944 date of birth. 

 

 

[fattyflattie 4639]

5 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Except the Ruger LCP:  "Little Crappy Pistol"

I said it!  Fight me @Armybrat

Agreed 

5 hours ago, Fondren & Main said:

Fuck Ruger! @Armybrat

Too far.  
 

Love me some Ruger. Do not love me some LCP.  

[Handcruser 2805]

We had a lady come in the shop about a year ago saying her LCP didn’t shoot straight.

Owner took it to the range and put 7 rounds through the same hole. Lolz.

[YGIFS 19452]

9 hours ago, Handcruser said:

We had a lady come in the shop about a year ago saying her LCP didn’t shoot straight.

Owner took it to the range and put 7 rounds through the same hole. Lolz.

Didn't realize you shot with South Austin's Mom.  

So wife tried out the t-22(LR).  Again, her bone thing on her upper left side presented an issue.  I wasn't there, but she said grip and trigger felt fine.  But after a couple of rounds, her right side tensed up to compensate and she was getting some "drift", for lack of a better term and the barrel was just ending up wide right, along with the bullet.  Anything comparable with just a little less "muscle" and good balance, that she can try out next?  

[BabaYaga 15301]

9 hours ago, Handcruser said:

We had a lady come in the shop about a year ago saying her LCP didn’t shoot straight.

Owner took it to the range and put 7 rounds through the same hole. Lolz.

Mrs Patton

[Armybrat 40851]

10 hours ago, Handcruser said:

We had a lady come in the shop about a year ago saying her LCP didn’t shoot straight.

Owner took it to the range and put 7 rounds through the same hole. Lolz.

They are good for deep concealment carry as long as the takedown pin & slide does not go flying downrange, and the trigger doesn’t pinch the shit out of your finger.

[fattyflattie 4639]

2 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Didn't realize you shot with South Austin's Mom.  

So wife tried out the t-22(LR).  Again, her bone thing on her upper left side presented an issue.  I wasn't there, but she said grip and trigger felt fine.  But after a couple of rounds, her right side tensed up to compensate and she was getting some "drift", for lack of a better term and the barrel was just ending up wide right, along with the bullet.  Anything comparable with just a little less "muscle" and good balance, that she can try out next?  

Was the round too much, or the particular firearm? Sorry, not following you well.  If the round, she’s not going to like anything bigger.  Even though it is bigger than the .22LR, might be a good candidate for a 5.7    Training will be a $$$ beating, but you can afford it. 

[Handcruser 2805]

Didn't realize you shot with South Austin's Mom.  
So wife tried out the t-22(LR).  Again, her bone thing on her upper left side presented an issue.  I wasn't there, but she said grip and trigger felt fine.  But after a couple of rounds, her right side tensed up to compensate and she was getting some "drift", for lack of a better term and the barrel was just ending up wide right, along with the bullet.  Anything comparable with just a little less "muscle" and good balance, that she can try out next?  

Where is the issue originating? Shoulder area? Chest? Her gripping tighter with the right hand is causing those accuracy issues.

If the you think about applying 100lbs of force between both hands gripping the pistol, most grip tighter with the right and it should be the opposite. Left hand should be applying 55lbs and right hand 45lbs (for example).

Properly gripping a handgun requires x amount of force and could potentially decrease depending on caliber but there is nowhere to go past 22lr.

Did she have an instructor present? A diagnostic trip would be fruitful - let’s figure out what’s going on. If she is in austin I am happy to help.

[Handcruser 2805]

Where is the issue originating? Shoulder area? Chest? Her gripping tighter with the right hand is causing those accuracy issues.

If the you think about applying 100lbs of force between both hands gripping the pistol, most grip tighter with the right and it should be the opposite. Left hand should be applying 55lbs and right hand 45lbs (for example).

Properly gripping a handgun requires x amount of force and could potentially decrease depending on caliber but there is nowhere to go past 22lr.

Did she have an instructor present? A diagnostic trip would be fruitful - let’s figure out what’s going on. If she is in austin I am happy to help.

Edit-
I feel I need to elaborate on the “x amount of force” piece.

If one has a high caliber revolver one must hang on for dear life. There just isn’t a ton of real estate there and then add in the recoil and it can be a beating.

Semi auto pistols 9mm and below require similar grip and force - the delta between 9mm and 22lr isn’t nearly as great as the delta between an Anaconda and a VP9.

[59 Burst 434]

Page needs more pictures. Here is an Sig P210. Very old technology, but an extremely accurate pistol. You don’t see a lot of these in people’s collections.

[59 Burst 434]

A newer hi power, made in Belgium, but assembled in Portugal. But, I’m a big fan of the platform. I absolutely love how it sets up in your hand. 

[59 Burst 434]

I have a pretty nice firearm collection, but very few stainless pieces. For some fucked up reason I really liked this Gold Cup. I have two others in blue, but I like this one the best?

[59 Burst 434]

One of my other stainless pieces, a S&W 686. Though this one was my father’s service revolver I inherited after he passed. What makes it somewhat unique is it came out of Smith & Wesson’s performance center back in the day. I still have the paperwork, which is an interesting read. The way they “tuned” revolvers is a far cry from what one can do at home with aftermarket upgrades on modern semi automatic pistols. 

[Anastasis 23475]

ishouldbuymorewheelguns.gif

[59 Burst 434]

9 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

ishouldbuymorewheelguns.gif

Every time I hear wheelgun I think of Joe Pesci in Lethal Weapon when he is ragging on Danny Glover about old timers. 

[Handcruser 2805]

Page needs more pictures. Here is an Sig P210. Very old technology, but an extremely accurate pistol. You don’t see a lot of these in people’s collections.

Beautiful. Back in production and triggers are awesome.

[Handcruser 2805]

A newer hi power, made in Belgium, but assembled in Portugal. But, I’m a big fan of the platform. I absolutely love how it sets up in your hand. 

I dislike these guns. But that’s a fantastic example.

I have a pretty nice firearm collection, but very few stainless pieces. For some fucked up reason I really liked this Gold Cup. I have two others in blue, but I like this one the best?

Dope.

[BabaYaga 15301]

12 hours ago, 59 Burst said:

Page needs more pictures. Here is an Sig P210. Very old technology, but an extremely accurate pistol. You don’t see a lot of these in people’s collections.

Match grade pistol.  Those are amazing and not cheap!

[BabaYaga 15301]

12 hours ago, 59 Burst said:

One of my other stainless pieces, a S&W 686. Though this one was my father’s service revolver I inherited after he passed. What makes it somewhat unique is it came out of Smith & Wesson’s performance center back in the day. I still have the paperwork, which is an interesting read. The way they “tuned” revolvers is a far cry from what one can do at home with aftermarket upgrades on modern semi automatic pistols. 

Service revolver?  Great guns, but they are not light and clearing your holster with such a long barrel must take a LOT of time and training.  Of course Rick Grimes carried a .357 Python and he survived the Walking Dead zombie apocalypse, so what do I know

[BabaYaga 15301]

12 hours ago, 59 Burst said:

I have a pretty nice firearm collection, but very few stainless pieces. For some fucked up reason I really liked this Gold Cup. I have two others in blue, but I like this one the best?

What's not to like - the Gold Cup is a great, great gun and will outshoot 99% of the people that use it.  I love them.  Especially the lack of serrations on the slide and the grips.  

[Armybrat 40851]

Ok, as posted upthread, I am new to the CZ brand with my recent purchase of the 75 compact (steel frame). 
Am impressed by the quality for the price ($520).

Now the full size CZ 75 BD is on sale here for $500. Before I order one, can any of you guys explain how this “de-cocker” lever works? 
Am not familiar with this feature at all.

https://grabagun.com/firearms/handguns/semi-automatic-handguns/cz-75b-d-9mm-4-7-black-dl-2-16rd.html

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Armybrat

[BabaYaga 15301]

11 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Ok, as posted upthread, I am new to the CZ brand with my recent purchase of the 75 compact (steel frame). 
Am impressed by the quality for the price ($520).

Now the full size CZ 75 BD is on sale here for $500. Before I order one, can any of you guys explain how this “de-cocker” lever works? 
Am not familiar with this feature at all.

https://grabagun.com/firearms/handguns/semi-automatic-handguns/cz-75b-d-9mm-4-7-black-dl-2-16rd.html

 

De-cocker de-cocks the gun...;)

[BabaYaga 15301]

I keed, I keed - but as the name explains, it allows you to safely de-cock or depress the cocked hammer without fear of it striking the primer

[Armybrat 40851]

Yes, I figured that was its obvious purpose but was wondering if it changed anything with the trigger’s mechanics & function?

[Bozo_Casanova 26488]

13 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Yes, I figured that was its obvious purpose but was wondering if it changed anything with the trigger’s mechanics & function?

compared to what? The decocker is just a safety mechanism to allow both an easier trigger pull if you are carrying loaded and also not require you to manually lower the hammer. Otherwise the mechanics and function of the trigger and hammer are similar to what you would see on a 1911 or HiPower, or really any DA/SA hammer-fired pistol. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Bozo_Casanova

[59 Burst 434]

5 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Service revolver?  Great guns, but they are not light and clearing your holster with such a long barrel must take a LOT of time and training.  Of course Rick Grimes carried a .357 Python and he survived the Walking Dead zombie apocalypse, so what do I know

When my old man retired he got bored. He was friends with Ronnie Strength (the police chief at the time) in Augusta Georgia, and took a job just to stay busy. From what I understand they all carried 686’s until the semiautomatics gained acceptance. 
The best part is he worked the National as an extra allowing me to play the course after the tournament as he didn’t play golf.

[59 Burst 434]

16 hours ago, Handcruser said:

Beautiful. Back in production and triggers are awesome.

You are spot on. I only use Jewell triggers on my bench guns. The factory trigger on this thing breaks just as good. Zero creep, and breaks like a glass rod. The only difference is the Jewell can be adjusted much lighter. 

[BabaYaga 15301]

53 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The decocker is just a safety mechanism to allow both an easier trigger pull if you are carrying loaded and also not require you to manually lower the hammer

"Sort of".  When you carry a hammer-fired pistol in condition 1, a round is chambered and the hammer is back but secured with an external safety.  The easier trigger pull is because the hammer is already back, ie., it's in SA mode.  1911's operate this way and they don't have a de-cocker.  They also do not have a DA capability.

De-cocker has been popular for a while now as it allows for the user to depress the hammer safely using a single hand - think LEO.  Gun clears the holster, situation requires officer to multitask, say have pistol out and reach for a radio, they can re-holster the cocked weapon and not take their other hand off the radio, flashlight, whatever.  Had a Sig 220 back in the day that had one.  Never really had to ever use it other than practicing.  My 1911 has an ambi-safety so if I had to re-holster, I'd engage the safety and keep it in condition 1 in the holster.  Something I'd never do with the 220.  

[BabaYaga 15301]

54 minutes ago, 59 Burst said:

You are spot on. I only use Jewell triggers on my bench guns. The factory trigger on this thing breaks just as good. Zero creep, and breaks like a glass rod. The only difference is the Jewell can be adjusted much lighter. 

You're the guy at the range in the bay next to me with groups at 25yrd that are tighter than mine at 10......;(

[TexasEd 8067]

2 hours ago, Armybrat said:

Yes, I figured that was its obvious purpose but was wondering if it changed anything with the trigger’s mechanics & function?

changes it from Single Action back to Double Action since it's not cocked anymore. 

To put it back in SA mode shoot it or manually cock it.

 

I'll use the Beretta 92 series as an example here on the configurations

92FS comes with an external safety that also decocks the hammer,  The gun can be in safety on, safety off DA or safety off and single action (Cocked)

92G uses the safety lever as a decocker only there is no external safety.  Gun can be in cocked (SA) or decocked (DA) mode and the safety is your finger not being on the trigger plus an internal safety that does not allow the hammer to hit the firing pin if the trigger is not pulled.  (FS has the internal safety too)

Edited October 2, 2023 by TexasEd

[59 Burst 434]

4 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

You're the guy at the range in the bay next to me with groups at 25yrd that are tighter than mine at 10......;(

Nah, Google Tony Boyer. I shot along side him as well as Kenny Jarrett, and many others during, and for a few years after the golden era of benchrest. When Ferris Pindale and Dr Lou Palmisano introduced the 6ppc, everything changed. 

In those years Kelby’s and Supershoot was the place the best shooters on the planet gathered. Forget anything you have ever seen in the movies or TV. It was open to anyone who had the brass (no pun intended) to sit alongside the best in the world. They used a revolving backer so the judges could count the holes to verify the shooter shot the proper amount of shots. Aggregates in the 0.250 for a three shot group were not only common, but expected. The smallest I remember was around 0.190. This was done at 200 yards with usually 300 to 400 competitors. I would like to point out my success…….I never won shit, but! I never came in last!

[Jkwellborn 6709]

A friend of mines father was big into benchrest shooting. He had a 6mm ppc. Stupid accurate gun. I enjoyed shooting it.

[59 Burst 434]

2 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

A friend of mines father was big into benchrest shooting. He had a 6mm ppc. Stupid accurate gun. I enjoyed shooting it.

I believe it to be the most accurate cartridge available…if you are a patient reloader. And are not shy about fire forming brass. 

[BabaYaga 15301]

10 hours ago, 59 Burst said:

I believe it to be the most accurate cartridge available…if you are a patient reloader. And are not shy about fire forming brass. 

I always wanted a .260 rem platform.  I never really got into the high-end, long distance rigs, but I did some training with a good friend in AL that is the sniper for the SWAT team.  In no time he had me knocking the caps off water bottles at 360yds.  We had a 700 and a Tikka (that he much preferred).  Both in .308.  Those guys that compete have such control.  They just lock in, everything slows down, heart rate/breathing, everything. 

[Armybrat 40851]

Yoga?

[BabaYaga 15301]

8 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Yoga?

Put it this way, at extreme ranges (I've been told) that the beat of your own heart cause the reticle to rise & fall in rhythm to the beats - causing shots to have to be timed between them.  If true (someone chime in), that is wild.  Even at 300-400 yds, I did experience minor movement of the scope, even in the prone position with a bipod on the front and a "pinch" bag under the stock.