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BigDHornfan

By BigDHornfan
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Reagan1k
Reagan1k

Opened my big fat mouth at a nice gun shop while on an out of state trip.  Lots of vintage shotguns but very few rifles behind the glass.  Guy asked if I wanted to look at anything and I declined - sa

Gladeite
Gladeite

1874 SAA.  4 digit frame.  Not factory grips but been on the gun as long as anyone knows.  At least 80 years.  

BabaYaga
BabaYaga

SOOOOOOOO, I have an update. Folks were in town, got to talking about my .270's older sibling "Bob".  The unicorn rifle: Pre-64, Model 70 .257 Roberts "bob" Shorter, heavy bar

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Crapinon

Crapinon 2392

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Compared to what? They make a .357 Sig and a 9X21, and still make .40s, meanwhile the popularity of the 57 is going up.

I think it was developed at the request of NATO to look for a replacement for the 9MM. It was more accurate at greater distances than the 9 but Germany objected and further development was stopped. But it was popular enough to hang around until Ruger developed a handgun for it. From what I've read it's pretty accurate out of a handgun up to 100 yards. If NATO would have adopted it, they would be making ammo by the billions and the per round price would come down considerably.

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15632

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Crapinon said:

I think it was developed at the request of NATO to look for a replacement for the 9MM. It was more accurate at greater distances than the 9 but Germany objected and further development was stopped. But it was popular enough to hang around until Ruger developed a handgun for it. From what I've read it's pretty accurate out of a handgun up to 100 yards. If NATO would have adopted it, they would be making ammo by the billions and the per round price would come down considerably.

It's popularity is based upon penetration tests and capacity.  FBI tests and caliber efficacy as all based upon projectile penetration.  The deeper they penetrate, the more lethal the round is.  The 5.7 is the solution to this equation.  EX.  In winter, many carry instructors will get into the use of 9mm HP's.  Their argument is heavy winter clothing can cause premature expansion and the round gets caught up in heavy clothing.

The genesis of the .40 was again the FBI.  The 80's shootout with under-gunned agents was also the 9mm unable to penetrate hardened targets like car doors.  They originally went with the 10mm, but it was too hard to control, so they shortened the case and the .40 was born.  The .357sig is a .40 necked down to allow for a .357 caliber.  It's faded as well because the round is so snappy and hard to control and it has feeding problems.

If the 5.7 was as cheap as 9mm and there were comparable pistol options, I'd switch tomorrow.  

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15632

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Crapinon said:

I think it was developed at the request of NATO to look for a replacement for the 9MM

To unpack this a little more - it's a designed to defeat lower-end personal body armor.  The post above is more about the civilian applications.  FN designed the round back in to 90's, as stated, to give non-combatants a better option.  So they made the P90 and Five-seveN.  Think of it as a modern day version of the venerable M1 Carbine of WWII.  

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Jkwellborn

Jkwellborn 7070

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The genesis of the .40 was again the FBI.  The 80's shootout with under-gunned agents was also the 9mm unable to penetrate hardened targets like car doors.  They originally went with the 10mm, but it was too hard to control, so they shortened the case and the .40 was born. 

Wasn’t it pretty much one shootout in Miami (I think) but with a bunch of agents carrying .38s?
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Crapinon

Crapinon 2392

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:


Wasn’t it pretty much one shootout in Miami (I think) but with a bunch of agents carrying .38s?

I read a few articles about the shootout. The agents had .38's, 9mm, .357' and 870 pumps. One agent lost his .357 in the crash. The suspects had almost super human powers and the shots that should have stopped them didn't. They also had a mini-14 and .357 revolvers. The agent who killed them did so with a .357. Reading about the ordeal reminded me of a saying attributed to a combat soldier. A pistol is what you use to fight your way to get your rifle. They were seriously outmatched by the mini-14. 

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Jkwellborn

Jkwellborn 7070

Posted
Posted
I read a few articles about the shootout. The agents had .38's, 9mm, .357' and 870 pumps. One agent lost his .357 in the crash. The suspects had almost super human powers and the shots that should have stopped them didn't. They also had a mini-14 and .357 revolvers. The agent who killed them did so with a .357. Reading about the ordeal reminded me of a saying attributed to a combat soldier. A pistol is what you use to fight your way to get your rifle. They were seriously outmatched by the mini-14. 

Didn’t the suspects have body armor on too?
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Crapinon

Crapinon 2392

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Jkwellborn said:


Didn’t the suspects have body armor on too?

I couldn't find any mention of it. I know there was another robbery a few years ago where the perps were loaded up with armor. I remember one of b the guys walking down the middle of the  street and the cops couldn't stop him with any rounds they had. I think they ended up getting some high powered rifles from gun store to bring him down. 

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Gladeite

Gladeite 376

Posted
Posted

5.7 is a wonderful stopping round.  The fps is high enough that hydrostatic shock waves exceed the elasticity of human tissue.  Case in point, the pos that went on a rampage at Ft Hood made 13 one shot kills with his 5.7.  Shots into any part of the torso were fatal.

FN and Ruger have 5.7s, but they are bulky in my opinion.  The 5.7 operates at a much higher pressure than 9mm, 10mm, .40, etc.  Also, the overall cartridge length is about 1/2 inch longer.  This will not work in the existing semi-auto platforms.  

I am a big fan of fast, light bullets for defensive purposes.  I carry the 68 grain Lehigh Defense in 9mm.  About 1700 fps.  It is devastating on whitetail deer.  Carry the 120 grain Lehigh in my .45 acp.  It runs about 1350 fps.  Again, testing on deer works great.  

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83Horn

83Horn 1666

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Crapinon said:

I read a few articles about the shootout. The agents had .38's, 9mm, .357' and 870 pumps. One agent lost his .357 in the crash. The suspects had almost super human powers and the shots that should have stopped them didn't. They also had a mini-14 and .357 revolvers. The agent who killed them did so with a .357. Reading about the ordeal reminded me of a saying attributed to a combat soldier. A pistol is what you use to fight your way to get your rifle. They were seriously outmatched by the mini-14. 

This is kind of long, but provides a very good explanation of these events:

 

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Speedtrucker

Speedtrucker 2098

Posted
Posted

Opened my junk drawer today to find a spare roll of Velcro straps for some new gear strap retention… and I see a large envelope from the ATF…. I pick it up and there is an identical envelope below it, rinse repeat…

I holler at my wife “wth?!?” How long ago did these arrive?!?

Apparently my brace exemptions all arrived 1-4 weeks ago and my wife thought that fed paper work was unimportant to me since I’m a fed…

I told her “this is different, fuck these “rules” but I guess I have a few new SBRs now”

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Reagan1k

Reagan1k 3043

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, 83Horn said:

I read a few articles about the shootout. The agents had .38's, 9mm, .357' and 870 pumps. One agent lost his .357 in the crash. The suspects had almost super human powers and the shots that should have stopped them didn't. They also had a mini-14 and .357 revolvers. The agent who killed them did so with a .357. Reading about the ordeal reminded me of a saying attributed to a combat soldier. A pistol is what you use to fight your way to get your rifle. They were seriously outmatched by the mini-14. 

Yep.  They actually did toxicology tests on the bad guys to see if they were hopped up on some shit to explain why they acted/reacted the way they did before and after being hit.

A lot has changed since that time.  Capacity vs. stopping power became the revolving debate.  10mm flopped (in the eyes of L.E.) .40 came and went.  9mm was  standardized, somewhat abandoned, and then readopted for capacity and shootability.  Carbine access on patrol became the norm.

Hell, in the '97 North Hollywood shootout, the cops had to drive to a local gun store and borrow several AR-15s and ammo to take back to the fight.  Now every beat cop looks like GI Joe.

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15632

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Reagan1k said:

A lot has changed since that time.  Capacity vs. stopping power became the revolving debate.  10mm flopped (in the eyes of L.E.) .40 came and went.  9mm was  standardized, somewhat abandoned, and then readopted for capacity and shootability.  Carbine access on patrol became the norm.

 

Improvements in cartridge performance helped the 9mm as well.  "Modern" rounds have many advantages over earlier options.  I run 147gr Speer Gold Dots and I've seen what they can do to a 200lb +/- pig at relatively close range.  

Carbines are just better in every conceivable way.  Capacity.  Velocity.  Penetration.  Accuracy.  Range.  Having on in the vehicle makes sense.  

1 hour ago, Reagan1k said:

Hell, in the '97 North Hollywood shootout, the cops had to drive to a local gun store and borrow several AR-15s and ammo to take back to the fight.  Now every beat cop looks like GI Joe.

My pops was in the law library as a salty freshman when Whitman was in the tower.  He still remembers hunters using scoped rifles to try and keep Whitman at bay while officers stormed the tower.  Always heard that was one of the transformational moments in LE when they realized different gear was needed.  Now we have swayed too far in that direction, but that is for another thread.  

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Reagan1k

Reagan1k 3043

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Improvements in cartridge performance helped the 9mm as well.

100% agree and should have mentioned that.  They've done a great job in improving the terminal performance of the 9.

 

25 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Carbines are just better in every conceivable way.  Capacity.  Velocity.  Penetration.  Accuracy.  Range.  Having on in the vehicle makes sense. 

Absolutely, and I have one in a hidden compartment in my ride, myself.  

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Armybrat

Armybrat 41454

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

My pops was in the law library as a salty freshman when Whitman was in the tower.  He still remembers hunters using scoped rifles to try and keep Whitman at bay while officers stormed the tower.  Always heard that was one of the transformational moments in LE when they realized different gear was needed.  Now we have swayed too far in that direction, but that is for another thread.  

When the student/hunters started shooting back at Whitman with their deer rifles, he could no longer lean over the parapet to shoot at will. 
He was pinned down and could only use the little drain spouts to fire out of, and that really restricted his effectiveness.

Sounded like a Vietnam firefight by that time, only much louder than the TV news.

Then we saw a white flag of some kind waving above the parapet, so we rushed the Tower along with hundreds of other people, stepping over large pools of drying blood here & there.

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Armybrat

Armybrat 41454

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

100% agree and should have mentioned that.  They've done a great job in improving the terminal performance of the 9.

I carry my 9mm with 124 grain +p HST, and the nightstand gun with the same.

 

 

C0761E66-1423-48D5-B42F-F35C154271C8.jpeg

FC406F11-D4B6-40CC-ACF2-ED3E90A2CEA6.jpeg

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noharleyyet

noharleyyet 2865

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, RMac5 said:

Hard to tell, is that a stainless barrel? 
great looking rifle, beautiful wood and a death beam of a caliber. 

Yes, stainless fluted. The stock is a synthetic McMillan molded to look like Walnut. Has a comfortable palm swell. Trigger is a Timney Elite. Sub minute with 92 grain Hammer Hunters at 3460 fps. 

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Armybrat

Armybrat 41454

Posted
Posted

Somebody replied today to my post on The High Road forum…..

Four years ago I gifted this NAA Mini .22 lr to my son as a kind of ”gag” gift for Christmas. When he got back to his house he couldn’t find it in any of the boxes with the other “loot”
He called us to search our house & trash cans, but no luck. Big disappointment.

A year later about a week before Christmas his wife called and excitedly told us she had just found it still in its little gun rug in her wrapping paper box. She had brought her paper over for some last-minute gift-wrapping and the tiny revolver somehow wound up in the bottom of that box during the cleanup after the gift opening.
Six months after the happy discovery, I gifted him the factory belt buckle to go with it for his birthday.View attachment 1183670View attachment 1183671
Should be a lot more difficult to lose that one now! 😁

Many years ago, we had a local gunshop owner who took advantage of a slow business day to disassemble his normal carry gun- a Browning High Power- for cleaning. He did have a pistol gripped 12Ga. under the counter and was wearing one of those NAA belt-buckle guns, so I guess he thought it was an acceptable risk. There was also an 80-lb German Shepherd and a Giant African Parrot patrolling around the shop as well.
As luck would have it, a customer came in and started chatting him up about this and that, luring him away from the main counter, before pulling a .357 and demanding he lock the front door.
The shop owner, caught cold, put up his hands and was moving to comply, when the bird, which had been perched quietly on a wooden roost near the entrance, reached out and clipped off a chunk of the robbers' face.
The perp, momentarily stunned, tried to staunch the wound with his gun-hand, giving the proprietor time to draw and fire his NAA, killing the robber.
Apparently, the bad guy didn't realize either the bird or the belt-buckle gun were real.....

Oh, and the Shepherd just sat on the floor the whole time, watching it go down. The shop owner later had a sign made for the front door that read "Forget the Dog, Beware of Parrot."
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Armybrat

Armybrat 41454

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Just picked up another CZ75 Compact 9mm identical to the one I bought a few months ago. 
Oldest son loved the first one when he saw it, so I figured I’d better get another so his brother wouldn’t feel slighted when birthdays roll around this summer.

They seem to be nice guns.

07E07C63-701A-4F0A-8137-EE4CEBF3FC28.jpeg

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ChickenNuggets

ChickenNuggets 1661

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Armybrat said:

Just picked up another CZ75 Compact 9mm identical to the one I bought a few months ago. 
Oldest son loved the first one when he saw it, so I figured I’d better get another so his brother wouldn’t feel slighted when birthdays roll around this summer.

They seem to be nice guns.

07E07C63-701A-4F0A-8137-EE4CEBF3FC28.jpeg

I have that exact pistola... all steel right?

 0?ui=2&ik=cb8d8141fa&attid=0.1&permmsgid=msg-a:r-3129253913798931448&th=18c60f85a47d886a&view=fimg&fur=ip&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ_q5RjbKQgGiNDcutjCRjlMZDpHYeYv3bADG0e57h-w5MdIdWaAfgL_6_LlbanvjhSO6LDg63xWzRqamdYeg2JVbT9zPrUFfB41VLKbqQRQDxubRQuCMlBRVDs&disp=emb&realattid=18c60f83f675416be5d1

Edited by ChickenNuggets
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ChickenNuggets

ChickenNuggets 1661

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

It's probably the only frame big enough to handle the length of the .22 hornet. Otherwise they'd have to engineer a new fram and change out tooling much more often.

my reading comprehension is garbage. I read .22 and immediately thought LR. Thanks for the clarification. 

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Reagan1k

Reagan1k 3043

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

It's probably the only frame big enough to handle the length of the .22 hornet. Otherwise they'd have to engineer a new fram and change out tooling much more often.

It's a pretty cool move by Ruger and I like the idea.  

I've got a Blackhawk in .30 carbine and appreciate Ruger doing this from time to time.

Not sure anyone is going to go burn a couple hundred Hornet rounds shooting cans like they would with the .22lr or .22mag but it would be a useful farm and ranch tool for sure.

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GottaB

GottaB 607

Posted
Posted
I shot a Sig 1911 and forgot how fun the 1911 is to shoot.   I've been focusing on 9mm guns for a while.  An all metal 1911 is just such a thing of beauty.

They do make 9mm 1911. Sounds like blasphemy to the 1911 purists, but 9mm is a whole lot cheaper than .45.

I have a Rock Island model that I have bought, sold and bought again. And there are higher end 9mm models like the DW here.
69e1860c55bb8d993aa7cde29269f741.jpg

Speaking of CZ Brat, you can get replacement grips to gussy up the gifts this summer. The green ones are aluminum but there are plenty out there.

0e4e6afa2e7ed5429421048c0f2ec340.jpg
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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26911

Posted
Posted
On 12/12/2023 at 6:36 PM, Armybrat said:

Just picked up another CZ75 Compact 9mm identical to the one I bought a few months ago. 
Oldest son loved the first one when he saw it, so I figured I’d better get another so his brother wouldn’t feel slighted when birthdays roll around this summer.

They seem to be nice guns.

07E07C63-701A-4F0A-8137-EE4CEBF3FC28.jpeg

did you get the 75 with the decocker or thumb safety?

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26911

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Thumb safety.

Am not really familiar with the newfangled decocker system.

I didn’t until I used it and thought it through. Ive come to the conclusion that it’s it leaves less space for confusion and is therefore more safe. 

10 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Newfangled to me

Too easy.

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ChickenNuggets

ChickenNuggets 1661

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, GottaB said:


They do make 9mm 1911. Sounds like blasphemy to the 1911 purists, but 9mm is a whole lot cheaper than .45.

I have a Rock Island model that I have bought, sold and bought again. And there are higher end 9mm models like the DW here.
69e1860c55bb8d993aa7cde29269f741.jpg

Speaking of CZ Brat, you can get replacement grips to gussy up the gifts this summer. The green ones are aluminum but there are plenty out there.

0e4e6afa2e7ed5429421048c0f2ec340.jpg

is that a CZ shadow with the blue grips?

 

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4th and 5

4th and 5 5006

Posted
Posted
On 12/14/2023 at 6:38 AM, GottaB said:


They do make 9mm 1911. Sounds like blasphemy to the 1911 purists, but 9mm is a whole lot cheaper than .45.

I have a Rock Island model that I have bought, sold and bought again. And there are higher end 9mm models like the DW here.
69e1860c55bb8d993aa7cde29269f741.jpg

Speaking of CZ Brat, you can get replacement grips to gussy up the gifts this summer. The green ones are aluminum but there are plenty out there.

0e4e6afa2e7ed5429421048c0f2ec340.jpg

This Guy Fucks GIF - Silicon Valley This Guy Fucks GIFs

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