The Gun Owner’s thread

[JoseMedinaDeJesus 207]

Definitely a score.

[Lat22 4015]

If that thing could talk.......

[BabaYaga 15302]

Always wanted the CMP hat-trick:  1911, Garand (which I have), and M1 carbine

 

 

 

*Who am I kidding....I want every gun.....

[Armybrat 40854]

Yes it is. What price level?

[davidg 4038]

I like shooting steel and I like watching Halle Berry.       Whynotboth?.gif

 

 

 

[Reagan1k 3024]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Always wanted the CMP hat-trick:  1911, Garand (which I have), and M1 carbine

 

 

 

*Who am I kidding....I want every gun.....

I have it with an asterisk.....My Garand is an H&R receiver that the CMP modified with a spacer block to accept only 7.62x51 and not 30-06.

I may go back and pick up another CMP Garand that they haven't modified at some point.

My CMP carbine might just be my favorite rifle....in the top 3 at least.

[Reagan1k 3024]

1 hour ago, Armybrat said:

Yes it is. What price level?

Service grade - $1050.00 out the door and the CMP pays for overnight shipping and a very nice carrying case to boot.

[Jkwellborn 6713]

I like shooting steel and I like watching Halle Berry.       Whynotboth?.gif
 
 
 

So nice.

[deft 6857]

BIL just got his m1 though cmp. Dad and I already have ours. Should the cmp 1911 be next? I don’t own one yet and I’d totally be ok with a cheap para as a host.

[Lat22 4015]

It’s going to be interesting to see if this murderer in Virginia legally possessed the suppressor that he used.

[Jkwellborn 6713]

I saw where he used one. It was probably one of those air soft covers or some shit like that. The odds of it being an actual suppressor or legally owned are pretty fucking slim. The link I saw barely even mentioned it.

[bigshark88 388]

On 5/21/2019 at 2:00 PM, BurntEyes said:

Please report back after throwing a good amount of lead. I'd like to hear your review.

 

Shot about 100 rounds this morning.  Wore ear pro plugs and headphones.  Lots of blast with little recoil is an odd feeling.  Gun shot pretty accurately with the cheapo Winchester Super X hunting ammo.  When I got into the more expensive stuff later the accuracy seemed to drop off.  Could've been a result of hot barrel and a dip in focus later in the range session.  Had a couple hiccups at first with the cheap Winchester ammo though.  The expensive stuff ran pretty much without a hitch.  

 

Like I said - armadillos will be killed.  I wouldn't use this handgun for defense except in some type of "last resort" situation.  The rounds stack in the magazine very awkwardly and it causes chokes.  I kept the mags as loaded as I could (about 18-20 rds) so maybe the springs will relax and that'll smooth-out.  

[Armybrat 40854]

45 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

I saw where he used one. It was probably one of those air soft covers or some shit like that. The odds of it being an actual suppressor or legally owned are pretty fucking slim. The link I saw barely even mentioned it.

Witnesses were quoted as hearing the gunshots, so....... the effectiveness & purpose of suppressors will be discussed and misrepresented for sure. But that will turn out to be CR material.

[Jkwellborn 6713]

Witnesses were quoted as hearing the gunshots, so....... the effectiveness & purpose of suppressors will be discussed and misrepresented for sure. But that will turn out to be CR material.

Until they come out and tell me what brand it was, no one with any sense will believe he had a legitimate one.

[Jkwellborn 6713]

Its always easy to tell who has actually used a suppressor and who just has a Hollywood education on them.

Dude was shooting a pistol. My suppressed 300 isn’t terribly loud. He probably just had a tube on the end of it for looks.

[Parliament 14270]

On 6/1/2019 at 10:24 AM, thestud said:

Its always easy to tell who has actually used a suppressor and who just has a Hollywood education on them.

To be fair, a subsonic round out of a sound suppressor is dang near Hollywood quiet.

[Lat22 4015]

Yep.  It's just a different sound.  If somebody is shooting up the first floor, I don't think you hear a thing on the second and third floors. 

[BabaYaga 15302]

14 minutes ago, Lat22 said:

Yep.  It's just a different sound.  If somebody is shooting up the first floor, I don't think you hear a thing on the second and third floors. 

Completely.  And even subsonic ammo with a can isn't like what you hear in the Bond movies.  That is reserved for sub-sonic 22lrs + a suppressor.  What always got me was the sound the impacts make (usually muffled by the report of the rifle).  

Buddy of mine took his kid out to our place and took a doe with a .300 SBR using SS ammo and a can.  Still audible from a ways off.  Just a different type of sound and much harder to localize where the shot came from.  

[4th and 5 4915]

A friend has a 44 mag rifle with integral suppressor. He shoots the furthest pig an a group, so the sound of the impact makes the closer ones run towards him.

In other firearm related news, I picked up a Sig P365 yesterday. Don't have a holster yet but the barrel and trigger/guard fits nicely in the 5th pocket of my jeans.

Also if anyone is looking for a shotgun for dove season, I have a new in box never fired Rem 870 express synthetic for sale for $275

https://www.remington.com/shotguns/pump-action/model-870/model-870-express-synthetic

 

 

[Izhmash 563]

This is Texas, and it's been 7 days since a post was made here about guns.  Was reading above about the G43X / G48's...been awhile since I've bought a Glock and had to go check them out.  Fell in love with a G48 with Ameriglo night sights...had to take her home.  Already got a GhostInc Edge Connector in her and she is smooth as glass!  Trying out some Talon Grips as well, just to add a bit of texture.  Will see how they hold up over time.  New carry pistol for me, putting the G19 to house duty.

imgur

imgur

[BayouBill 835]

On 5/25/2019 at 10:12 PM, williemackgarza said:

 

Thanks for making me spend $500, asshole.

[BabaYaga 15302]

17 hours ago, Izhmash said:

This is Texas, and it's been 7 days since a post was made here about guns.  Was reading above about the G43X / G48's...been awhile since I've bought a Glock and had to go check them out.  Fell in love with a G48 with Ameriglo night sights...had to take her home.  Already got a GhostInc Edge Connector in her and she is smooth as glass!  Trying out some Talon Grips as well, just to add a bit of texture.  Will see how they hold up over time.  New carry pistol for me, putting the G19 to house duty.

 

imgur

 

 

imgur

 

Like those grips!  

[Izhmash 563]

19 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Like those grips!  

First time I've tried them.  I used to use those (I think they were Hogue) wrap around grips and found these with a quick search.  They had great reviews and I am loving them so far.  You don't lose much real estate, but gain substantial grip on the firearm.  I ordered the "rubberized" ones...believe there is an option for a more "sandpaper" type grip as well.  Already purchased a set for my G19 as well.

[williemackgarza 1826]

Thanks for making me spend $500, asshole.

Youre welcome

[4th and 5 4915]

shot my P365 for the first time, really like it

[Armybrat 40854]

How thin is the grip?

My Kahr CW9 is pretty slender at .9”, but being a single stack it only holds 7+1.

[4th and 5 4915]

The data for it and the competition is below. It's amazing it is 10+1 at that size. Sig made it possible by making the grip construction thinner, about as thick as 2 credit cards, although overall it is only a bit larger than the competition.

 

The Basic Numbers

Measurement	Sig P 365	Glock 43	S&W Shield
Length	5.82	6.31	6.25
Height (including sights)	4.31	4.25	4.62
Width (widest point)	1.11	1.36	1.03
Grip Width (average)	.99	.92	.94
Weight (oz)	18.5	18	20.5

Edited June 18, 2019 by 4th and 5

[4th and 5 4915]

9mm Micro Shootout – Sig P365 vs. Glock 43 vs. S&W Shield

by JEFF CRAMBLIT on AUGUST 25, 2018

Related Tags: 9mm, Buzz, Concealed Carry, EDC, Feature Articles, Glock, Guns, Home Defense, Pistol, reviews, SIG Sauer, Smith & Wesson

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Everyone at the Shot Show in January had to stop by and see the new Sig P365 Micro-compact pistol; it was the talk of the show. Sig had made the leap into the deep end of the pool to compete with the well-established pillars of the micro market, the Smith & Wesson Shield, and the Glock 43 9mms.  It certainly looked and felt good, and it held more bullets than its rival competitors, but looks are sometimes deceiving.

 

All three Micro-Compacts proved accurate for their size, these are more than point and shoot guns.

The true test is when you put a product side by side with its competitors and see how they stack up. So after a not so patient wait to get the newly popular P365 it’s time to get down to the range, scales and numbers to see how it does.

The Basic Numbers

Measurement	Sig P 365	Glock 43	S&W Shield
Length	5.82	6.31	6.25
Height (including sights)	4.31	4.25	4.62
Width (widest point)	1.11	1.36	1.03
Grip Width (average)	.99	.92	.94
Weight (oz)	18.5	18	20.5

 

 

The numbers above clearly show that Sig has produced a product that is within the same size and weight arena as its competitors. These measurements were made with the shortest, non-extended magazines that are offered for each gun.

Thin is important when you tuck this in your waistband each day. So where did they hide all those extra rounds in the SIG?

These numbers pretty much deal with how well these little guns are going to carry on a day to day basis. The Sig is small when compared to the length on both the other guns and solidly stands with them in the weight, width and height numbers – they gave up little to the competition in basic design.

 

Deeper Numbers

The numbers in the table above are usually all you really get, but when comparing these 3 guns it’s worth getting a little more specific. All these guns have a different feel when in the hand and shooting, and after all how well you shoot a gun is usually about how naturally it fits you.

Measurement	Sig P 365	Glock 43	S&W Shield
Grip Length (front strap)	1.93	1.78	1.77
Grip Circumference (narrowest)	4.75	4.87	5
Grip Depth (front to back)	1.75	2.2	1.92
Back strap to front of trigger	2.64	2.61	2.69
Trigger Weight (pounds)	5.1	6.25	6
Sight Radius	4.85	5.17	5.26

 

This is where Sig’s P365 starts to pull away from the pack for me. The Sig, while being very short in height overall has the longest front strap on the grip, allowing the shooter to get a better handle on the gun.

Trigger guard designs play heavily in length of front strap on the grip, influencing how grip fits your hand. The greater undercut of the P365 trigger guard adds to the overall design and control.

It also has the smallest front to back measurement of the grips, resulting in the smallest circumference, making the gun fit well in smaller hands. The well stippled little grip is easy to get a hold of and hang on to while shooting. Larger hands may still like the Glock or S&W better; but are you willing to settle for the lower capacity?

The distance of the reach from the back strap to the trigger is relatively equal for all 3 guns. However, the pull weight to break the trigger on the P365 came in about a pound less than either of the two other guns and had very little over travel.

A one pound trigger pull difference might not seem like much but it’s significant on a percentage basis and was noticeable while shooting groups. Would this difference be noticeable under stress in a hostile encounter – maybe, maybe not?

S&W had the greatest sight radius due to rear sight reaching to the back of the slide. Glock had the longest barrel of the test guns.

The P365 did have the shortest sight radius as expected since it had the shortest overall length. However, it appears its short barrel wasn’t too detrimental as the P365 ended up with some small groups while doing accuracy testing. The lighter trigger and good sights seemed to help those groups along.

Accuracy

After a little time warming up all 3 guns with some ball ammunition to get acquainted it was time to calm down and shoot some groups. Accuracy testing was shot at 25 feet with the three guns; using five types of ammunition and firing three five shot groups for each. A couple hours on the range I had 45 targets worth of groups and data to crunch. Ammunition tested ranged from 115 grains to 147 grains, all defensive type ammunition, as that is what would be most likely to be used in the little guns.

Average Group Size (smallest)
Ammunition	Sig P 365	Glock 43	S&W Shield
Winchester 147 grn Bonded JHP	1.6 (1.14)	1.88 (1.51)	1.40 (.92)
Remington High Terminal Performance 147 grn JHP	1.71 (1.07)	1.96 (1.13)	2.70 (2.35)
Federal 147 grn JHP 9MS	1.91 (1.90)	.94 (.75)	1.82 (1.39)
Hornady Critical Defense Light 100 grn FTX	.93 (.86)	1.56 (1.17)	2.08 (1.49)
Hornady Critical Defense 115 grn FTX	1.09 (1.04)	2.15 (1.58)	2.48 (1.40)

 

All three guns shot accurately enough to be used in defensive situations, clearly, each gun had some likes and dislikes in the ammunition tested. The smallest group overall was shot by the Glock 43 with the Federal ammunition.

Unfortunately this combination, Glock 43 and Federal 147 JHP ammunition also had the only malfunctions (2) during all the testing.  This Federal ammunition has a very large hollow point and experienced two failures to feed with the Glock- always thoroughly check your carry ammo for operation in your gun.

Other than the two failures with the large-mouthed bullets, all three of the guns ran 100% with both flush and extended magazines, with a wide variety of ammunition- these are highly reliable guns.

Accuracy testing always has a certain amount of human factor errors but results in more realistic expectations than machine testing; only 42 more groups to go.

The Hornady Critical Defense Light was definitely the softest shooting and easiest to control in all 3 guns and functioned 100%, I was a bit concerned the lighter load may prove finicky in the micro guns but it proved me wrong.. With all the data above it’s a bit tough to determine an answer to which firearm performed the best.

	Average of Groups All Ammo	Average of Smallest Groups
Sig P365	1.45	1.20
Glock 43	1.7	1.23
S&W Shield	2.1	1.51

 

When it was all totaled out, even with its short sight radius, the diminutively sized P365 ended up with the smallest groups sizes. Was this due to the lighter trigger, the longer grip length, the excellent XRAY3 sights, a tighter fit barrel lockup, or a combination of all those factors combined? Whatever the reason, it shot the best and all three shot well for “Micro-Compacts” at that distance.

Added Bonus Features

When comparing the sights on the three test guns the P365 is the definite winner. Sig’s XRAY3 Day/ Night sights are really nice. The front sight dot shows up well, day or night, as advertised. The rear sight is also well executed; the outside corners are rounded to prevent snagging and digging into your flesh when carrying concealed. The tritium dots, front, and rear show up well in low light and allow easily getting hits on target.  The dots are much easier to see than the target in the darkness.

The front sight dot on the Sig is a standout when compared to white dots or standard tritium sights.

The P365 is the only one of the test guns that comes with front and rear cocking serrations, the others just having the rear. Racking the slide on smaller 9mm guns can sometimes be a challenge due to having little to hang on too while having to overcome the short stiff recoil springs.

Beveled top and front edges of P365 make it “feel” smaller than the actual dimensions. Grip size difference is clear between Sig and S&W in this photo.

In addition to having the extra set of serrations, the P365’s serrations seemed to be the easiest to get a hold of; they allowed a better grip on the slide. Digging into the difference in how the serration felt and performed a little deeper, revealed that the grooves of the P365 serrations were several thousands of an inch deeper than the Glock’s, and both of these were easier to manipulate than the S&W scalloped design serrations.

The Sig is also the only one of the three that has an accessory rail that will be able to accommodate the lights and lasers that will be coming shortly. It appears they have set some new standards to be reached by others.

All three manufacturers sell magazines that are extended to allow the shooter to get a better grip on these micro blasters, some increase capacity, others just extend the grip for control.

Guns with extended magazines inserted. Sig in foreground holds 10+1, Glock 6+1, 2nd Sig 12+1, S&W Shield 8+1

The capacity advantage of the Sig P365 due to its staggered magazine design dwarfs the competition. The Sig with its 10 round flat or extended finger support magazine is 3 rounds above the S&W or 4 above the Glock. Think about it for a minute, 10+1 in the Sig is as many rounds as a single stack 9mm 1911 holds.

With the extended capacity magazine, the Sig has almost twice the rounds of the Glock and 4 rounds more than the extended Shield in a similar sized package.

Range Time

On the range shooting steel targets at speed, all three guns functioned flawlessly. All these guns have good triggers and fine sights; these aren’t pocket derringers that are only good when trapped in a phone booth. Engaging multiple silhouettes and an MGM plate rack from 10 yards was fun and easily accomplished with each product.

As identical holsters for each were not available I shot them all from a low ready start. The Glock with its different grip angle required me to do a little adjusting of sight picture but was fast and accurate, though the magazine capacity only allowed me to put controlled pairs on each of 3 silhouettes then get only one of the plates from the plate rack. The fun is over way to soon.

The Shield performed well and with its 8+1 extended magazine allowed for the same controlled pairs and getting three of the plates down of the 6 plate rack, this fun lasted a bit longer.

The Sig with its 12 in the magazine + 1 in the chamber, for 13 total rounds, placed good hits on the silhouettes and allowed me to engage all six plates and have one extra round for a pick up on a missed plate. The P365’s front sight was definitely fast to pick up and track.

Running steel and plates until I had expended another 3 boxes of ammo was literally a blast and took only minutes. The only other conclusions I arrive at is that I liked the way the P365 grip feels better than the other two guns, but I shot the Glock 43 just a little bit faster, possibly due to previous familiarity.

All these guns are very capable of engaging targets at defensive distances at speed with good shot placement.

Reliable performance, sleek lines, and comfortable grip make the P365 an ideal Every Day Carry gun

Bottom Line

The Sig P365 wins this shootout in my humble opinion. The MSRP of $599 is a bit higher than the other guns but Sig brings a bit more to the game. The outstanding grip design, higher capacity, great sights, lighter trigger pull, smaller length, light weight and just a great overall feel make it a winning product.

The other two guns are great, they have been the cornerstones of concealed carry for many years, and I have personally carried both of them, but Sig has changed the game.  Get your hands on a P365 and see how you think it feels.

Visit Sig and learn more about the P365 by clicking Here.

Visit Smith & Wesson and learn more about the Shield by clicking Here.

Visit Glock and learn more about the G43 by clicking Here.

[Speedtrucker 2071]

So learn me on some/any of y’alls AR9 setups!

Buddy bought a palmetto state armory shockwave 9mm pistol.

I’ve still gotta get my Creedmoor hunting rifle and glass but I’m tempted to sell/trade my Kimber 1911 to fund an AR9 pistol setup

[BabaYaga 15302]

12 hours ago, Speedtrucker said:

So learn me on some/any of y’alls AR9 setups!

Buddy bought a palmetto state armory shockwave 9mm pistol.

I’ve still gotta get my Creedmoor hunting rifle and glass but I’m tempted to sell/trade my Kimber 1911 to fund an AR9 pistol setup

PSA is a decent entry-level provider.  It's a reliable option that a lot of people love.  I've always been partial to the CZ Scorpion in terms of a 9mm carbine option.  I know there are a few owners here that can opine on them.  I have a friend with a CX4 Storm.  Different setup, but still fun to shoot.  

My LE friends all agree that for the interior protection of your house, pistol carbines are tough to beat.  Easier to aim/fire.  Longer sight radius lends itself to more accurate shots.  Significantly less concern for over-penetration of interior walls (compared to a 5.56 or shotgun rounds).  Much less recoil and muzzle flash, and they are cheap and fun to shoot, meaning you'll spend more time practicing with them.  

[Speedtrucker 2071]

Yeah the PSA ar9 is tempting, our office security bought one and slapped his law tactical on the brace and its making me want one.

My main line of thought is probably want one that feeds on “glock” mags just because of mass availability...

[BabaYaga 15302]

53 minutes ago, Speedtrucker said:

Yeah the PSA ar9 is tempting, our office security bought one and slapped his law tactical on the brace and its making me want one.

My main line of thought is probably want one that feeds on “glock” mags just because of mass availability...
 

Not a bad feature if that's your choice.  I'd look to eventually stockpile over time dedicated 20 and 30 round mags.  I remember how much fun those old Ruger PC Carbines were to plink around with.  9mm out of a longer barrel has legs.  We'd pop critters @ 100+ yds with them.

[Hozz 1017]

I got a PSA AK V recently.  Similar to an AK but not gas operated, in 9mm.  Based on a Russian sub gun which shares a lot of parts with the AK74.  They make a few configurations, mine has magpul furniture in FDE.  All of them have a rail on the dust cover.

It shares mags with the Scorpion, which is nice because they are cheap; And its a cheaper gun to get into at around $760.  Early models had some problems but they made some tweaks to the design and reliability has gone way up.  I have shot a few hundred rounds of various loads and only had one malfunction.  I did not clean the gun initially and they tell you to, so may have been that. Was the 5th round of the first mag.  AKOU in the middle of a 5K round test now here is the latest at 2K 

 

[4th and 5 4915]

That's fugly, but looks fun

[SHOOTER12 8811]

On 6/18/2019 at 9:44 PM, Speedtrucker said:

So learn me on some/any of y’alls AR9 setups!

Buddy bought a palmetto state armory shockwave 9mm pistol.

I’ve still gotta get my Creedmoor hunting rifle and glass but I’m tempted to sell/trade my Kimber 1911 to fund an AR9 pistol setup

Don't sell the Kimber, but if you absolutely must...I'm your Huckleberry.

Soooooo...DM me

Edited June 20, 2019 by SHOOTER12

[Hozz 1017]

22 hours ago, 4th and 5 said:

That's fugly, but looks fun

They come from PSA with Magpul furniture.  He replaced that with AKM/74 furniture.  They look pretty slick in the Magpul config IMO.  They have black, gray, FDE and OG color options.

[MAROON 445]

On 4/24/2019 at 5:11 PM, Lat22 said:

I can barely wear the pistol comfortably concealed. Where the hell am I putting an extry mag.

Ahem

 

 

[Armybrat 40854]

Been a while since posting a pic. My Colt Government .380 is a solid little pistol even though they got a bit sloppy with the rollmark. Still have the box & al the papers since buying it new 32 years ago.

 

[msucolt45 4063]

Love Colt pistols, but that’s a big assed gun for a .380. Not that I’d want to be on the receiving end of a .380!!!

My Ruger LCP looks like a “mouse fart” gun compared to yours - Army Brat!

[PilotsError 2312]

Put my 4500th round through my LCP 2 yesterday. Only malfunction was the day I used magtech ammo, other than that it's been flawless. People have told me this is the number when sub compact pistols start wearing out, so we'll see. So far it's been a reliable and comfortable EDC.

[cabowabo 4492]

5 hours ago, PilotsError said:

Put my 4500th round through my LCP 2 yesterday. Only malfunction was the day I used magtech ammo, other than that it's been flawless. People have told me this is the number when sub compact pistols start wearing out, so we'll see. So far it's been a reliable and comfortable EDC.

Damn, that's a lot of rounds through that piece.  Shooting an LCP is not the most comfortable thing to do. 

[Armybrat 40854]

True. May want to replace the recoil spring after that many rounds.

My first year production LCP (2008) has about 200 rounds through it.

[MadBurgerMaker 404]

Anyone ever been "delayed"? 

[Fondren & Main 6726]

6 hours ago, MadBurgerMaker said:

Anyone ever been "delayed"? 

3 day hold?  Yeah, last time was when I bought like 4 guns in 6 months.

[Armybrat 40854]

Burnt - on your 7 shot GP100 - there have been issues with certain kinds of ammo rims not seating well in the crowded cylinder. You might want to check out the long, but relevant, thread on the Ruger forum.

Yeah, a 7 shot centerfire wheel gun seems a bit odd. But the S&W 586/686 Plus models have been around for decades. Ruger is a little late to the party. I really like my Single Seven .327 Federal Magnum though.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Armybrat

[Jkwellborn 6713]

Anyone ever been "delayed"? 

I won a Charles Daly over and under at a Ducks unlimited banquet when I was 19 or 20. First time I’d ever had to have the background check. I got delayed on it. Only time it’s ever happened.

[MadBurgerMaker 404]

2 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

I won a Charles Daly over and under at a Ducks unlimited banquet when I was 19 or 20. First time I’d ever had to have the background check. I got delayed on it. Only time it’s ever happened.

 

3 hours ago, Fondren & Main said:

3 day hold?  Yeah, last time was when I bought like 4 guns in 6 months.

Yeah the 3 day hold.  I bought a CZ Scorpion + folding brace yesterday and they hit me with that.  First thing I've picked up in more than a year now, I guess.  Hell, that might even include ammo, now that I think of it.  

3 business days = the 10th.

 

[crimsonlonghorn 2306]

One reason I got my LTC was to avoid background checks every time I bought a new gun. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by crimsonlonghorn

[Armybrat 40854]

Same here.

I carried a handgun before that anyway.

[Jkwellborn 6713]

Same here.
I carried a handgun before that anyway.

Carry over habit from the frontier days? Fucking Indians and bears man.