The Gun Owner’s thread

[Zone Read 297]

Just now, Fuck Tim Beck said:

Awesome. I love mine. Been my EDC for 18 months now 

I've been carrying mine for about that long also.  It is an awesome CCW.  My twins fell in love with it.  One pulled a 4.0 this semester, the other just barely missed it but made the cut for the Texas Creative program (humblebrag) so I figured they deserved it.

[mooseoutfront 3641]

On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, tx 3 putt said:

 

any pics or videos ?

I haven't killed anything impressive, but that is by design.  I go after the young ones.  The meat is the most important thing to me.  I don't really give a shit about antlers.  The older "trophy bulls" are fairly gamey tasting, plus a large bull can net you close to 800 or 900 pounds of meat.  That's too much for me and my wife to eat in a year.  Up here most people consider a trophy bull to have at least a 60" spread.  The biggest moose I've shot was 32".  About 2 1/2 years old. 

[SHOOTER12 8787]

On 5/22/2020 at 10:48 AM, Fondren & Main said:

So, what I’m hearing is that I should go ahead and put an order in for a Wilson Combat .458 SOCOM that I don’t need.

Hope you ordered 2, I can always use one.😁

[SHOOTER12 8787]

On 5/29/2020 at 11:14 AM, Armybrat said:

Me too....

Nice... here's my old faithful shoulder blaster.

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by SHOOTER12

[Fondren & Main 6658]

54 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Hope you ordered 2, I can always use one.😁

I’m trying to keep my purchases down to one a year lol.  I bought 2 ESD slings though and 2 angled foregrips.  I’m not gonna limit myself on accessories. 🤭

[SHOOTER12 8787]

1 hour ago, Fondren & Main said:

I’m trying to keep my purchases down to one a year lol.  I bought 2 ESD slings though and 2 angled foregrips.  I’m not gonna limit myself on accessories. 🤭

Damned straight, a man has to know his limitations and stick to his guns (pun intended).

[Armybrat 40678]

One a year? WTF?

Just gifted the little Ruger Bearcat Shopkeeper to my grandson for his 10th birthday yesterday. Had intended to do it on his 13th, but time is drawing short and I’d like to see him enjoy it.

So, there is another empty spot in the safe. Hmmmmmm?

[BabaYaga 15202]

15 hours ago, Fondren & Main said:

I’m trying to keep my purchases down to one a year lol.  

[Baboontyme 2807]

I know surly is big on its guns. I'm not really a gun guy but I'm going to get a shotgun strictly for home protection. I've got a buddy who is helping me pick something out and get the right accessories, but he is single and doesn't have the same needs that I do to keep everything secure. My kids are getting older, and I don't care if they know that there's a gun in the house, but I absolutely want to make sure it's secure. I know what I was like when I was a teenager, and I remember picking the lock to my dad's drawer to get his .38 just so we could go out into a field and shoot it into the ground. I have to remember that my kid shares my genes and I don't want this to be an option for him. I also don't have a ton of room for storage for a huge safe. I'm not terribly concerned about ultra quick access, I doubt this gun will ever be fired. But I guess in the even that something did ever happen I don't want to be fumbling around with a ton of combinations and keylocks. My current thought process is that I would keep the gun in a locked closet (not secure) with a biometric trigger lock like this and I would keep the shells somewhere separate but close-by in a small biometric safe like this . Do these seem like decent options?

[cabowabo 4449]

So, you're gonna get through all those security devices when someone is breaking into your house? Buy a pistol, keep it loaded with a round in the pipe, and you can keep that in a small biometric pistol safe. And, go out and shoot the thing so you know how to use it when the need arises. My .02.

[fattyflattie 4636]

1 hour ago, Baboontyme said:

I know surly is big on its guns. I'm not really a gun guy but I'm going to get a shotgun strictly for home protection. I've got a buddy who is helping me pick something out and get the right accessories, but he is single and doesn't have the same needs that I do to keep everything secure. My kids are getting older, and I don't care if they know that there's a gun in the house, but I absolutely want to make sure it's secure. I know what I was like when I was a teenager, and I remember picking the lock to my dad's drawer to get his .38 just so we could go out into a field and shoot it into the ground. I have to remember that my kid shares my genes and I don't want this to be an option for him. I also don't have a ton of room for storage for a huge safe. I'm not terribly concerned about ultra quick access, I doubt this gun will ever be fired. But I guess in the even that something did ever happen I don't want to be fumbling around with a ton of combinations and keylocks. My current thought process is that I would keep the gun in a locked closet (not secure) with a biometric trigger lock like this and I would keep the shells somewhere separate but close-by in a small biometric safe like this . Do these seem like decent options?

There are some smaller (less quantity) long arm safes, for not much money.  Not stack-on type crap, but heavy duty stuff.  I assume you can spare 18"x18" of closet floor space for something as important as keeping a gun away from children.  Good deals around the holidays, under $500.  Also, you can store ammo and any other thing you need to keep safe in there.  Titles/deeds/jewelry/nudes of wife.  That would be the way I'd approach it, and likely will at some point.  

Something like this.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/winchester-gun-safe-12-gun-ts12-30

 

6 hours ago, Armybrat said:

but time is drawing short

After several centuries, now time is short?

 

19 hours ago, Fondren & Main said:

I’m trying to keep my purchases down to one a year quarter lol

 

[Baboontyme 2807]

Thanks for the thoughts. I'm not getting a hand gun. I'm not getting anything that's going to shoot through walls. I do not think the likelihood of someone breaking into my house is a large piece of the puzzle in why I'm looking for an extra layer of home protection. That said it's definitely a component of "home protection" and the point about having to go through extra layers of security in such an event is a good one. Perhaps a single safe would be a better option. 

[TwiceHorn 31184]

16 minutes ago, Baboontyme said:

Thanks for the thoughts. I'm not getting a hand gun. I'm not getting anything that's going to shoot through walls. I do not think the likelihood of someone breaking into my house is a large piece of the puzzle in why I'm looking for an extra layer of home protection. That said it's definitely a component of "home protection" and the point about having to go through extra layers of security in such an event is a good one. Perhaps a single safe would be a better option. 

Anything that makes a decent defensive weapon (and a lot that won't) is going to go through interior walls.  Including a 12 gauge.

Edited June 3, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[fattyflattie 4636]

One good thing of about a shotgun, at least a pump, is that the sound of racking one has to tremendously frightening to someone on the other end.    I'm completely leaving out the discussion of short stroking them, jamming them up, etc. because I don't necessarily agree with it, and you should research all that.  But that sound, every single person knows what it is, like a rattlesnake.

[Armybrat 40678]

35 minutes ago, Baboontyme said:

Thanks for the thoughts. I'm not getting a hand gun. I'm not getting anything that's going to shoot through walls. I do not think the likelihood of someone breaking into my house is a large piece of the puzzle in why I'm looking for an extra layer of home protection. That said it's definitely a component of "home protection" and the point about having to go through extra layers of security in such an event is a good one. Perhaps a single safe would be a better option. 

Perhaps you should not buy a gun at all if you are not going to take the responsibility to get proper training and sufficient practice to attain a modicum of proficiency. Not to mention educating your kids about firearms.

You probably would be safe enough with your big dog, a secured house, and plenty of pepper spray.

JMO.

[Armybrat 40678]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

One good thing of about a shotgun, at least a pump, is that the sound of racking one has to tremendously frightening to someone on the other end.    I'm completely leaving out the discussion of short stroking them, jamming them up, etc. because I don't necessarily agree with it, and you should research all that.  But that sound, every single person knows what it is, like a rattlesnake.

I think that old meme is probably overstated. 
I say that even with my Winchester Defender 20” barrel 12 gauge pump loaded with 8 rounds of 00 Buck within arm’s reach of my side of the bed. 

[fattyflattie 4636]

4 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

I think that old meme is probably overstated. 
I say that even with my Winchester Defender 20” barrel 12 gauge pump loaded with 8 rounds of 00 Buck within arm’s reach of my side of the bed. 

Maybe so.  I know it would make me reevaluate my situation if I was doing something I shouldn't be and heard it.  By reevaluate, I mean gtfo and in a hurry.

[cabowabo 4449]

39 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

One good thing of about a shotgun, at least a pump, is that the sound of racking one has to tremendously frightening to someone on the other end.    I'm completely leaving out the discussion of short stroking them, jamming them up, etc. because I don't necessarily agree with it, and you should research all that.  But that sound, every single person knows what it is, like a rattlesnake.

 

[Armybrat 40678]

😅

[Reagan1k 3008]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Anything that makes a decent defensive weapon (and a lot that won't) is going to go through interior walls.  Including a 12 gauge.

Buckshot will penetrate walls much more than the average person believes.  In some cases more than a defensive handgun or even rifle bullet at higher velocities.

No dog in this fight....I've got handguns, rifles, and shotguns that can all be accessed quickly.  I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of old wives tales regarding shotguns for self defense and most are false or at best misleading.  As an example.....the idea that accuracy isn't needed b/c of pattern spread - check out the real pattern of buckshot at 20 feet vs. what some people assume it to be.

Just things to consider.  Whatever you get, become proficient with it.

 

edit - you can even look up videos that show 2x buckshot penetrating much more than a 5.56 defensive round shot at very short range (ie - in a hallway).  It has to do with velocity and stabilization.   The 5..56 gets it's energy dumped more quickly and isn't as stable in flight that close to the muzzle so it doesn't penetrate the same as it would at extended ranges.  Somewhat counter-intuitive but...science. 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Reagan1k

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

6 hours ago, Baboontyme said:

I know surly is big on its guns. I'm not really a gun guy but I'm going to get a shotgun strictly for home protection. I've got a buddy who is helping me pick something out and get the right accessories, but he is single and doesn't have the same needs that I do to keep everything secure. My kids are getting older, and I don't care if they know that there's a gun in the house, but I absolutely want to make sure it's secure. I know what I was like when I was a teenager, and I remember picking the lock to my dad's drawer to get his .38 just so we could go out into a field and shoot it into the ground. I have to remember that my kid shares my genes and I don't want this to be an option for him. I also don't have a ton of room for storage for a huge safe. I'm not terribly concerned about ultra quick access, I doubt this gun will ever be fired. But I guess in the even that something did ever happen I don't want to be fumbling around with a ton of combinations and keylocks. My current thought process is that I would keep the gun in a locked closet (not secure) with a biometric trigger lock like this and I would keep the shells somewhere separate but close-by in a small biometric safe like this . Do these seem like decent options?

We touched on this with revolvers earlier, but this is the appeal of the Taurus Judge to me. It's a revolver that shoots .410 shells. 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Bozo_Casanova

[Jkwellborn 6649]

Weapons that aren’t ready to go when the time comes get you killed. Racking the shotgun in hopes of scaring someone off is the dumbest shit ever. Congrats, you just gave you position away.

If you get a shotgun, get a quality auto loader. If you aren’t experienced with a pump, you will short stroke it under pressure.

Whatever you pick, practice handling it and shooting. Buy quality defense ammo. Hope you never have to use it.

[dirtonia 269]

Perhaps you should not buy a gun at all if you are not going to take the responsibility to get proper training and sufficient practice to attain a modicum of proficiency. Not to mention educating your kids about firearms.
You probably would be safe enough with your big dog, a secured house, and plenty of pepper spray.
JMO.

Yup, sounds like he needs a dog not a gun.

[Speedtrucker 2063]

If we are talking indoor home defense, Frangibles have their place in the ever evolving world of penetration and over-penetration.

A smaller caliber .25acp or even a .380 with interceptor Frangibles would help with over-penetration fears.

Shotties always have that “I’m gonna rack it” thought but I’m not a fan of that... like someone else said I’m not a shotgunner so I’ve always feared short stroking it and getting jammed up.

[crimsonlonghorn 2306]

Yeah, get a dog and mount a flashlight on a an air pistol and wave it around when he bad guy gets there. It might scare him off and it would be safer than a real gun without proper training. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

1 hour ago, dirtonia said:

Yup, sounds like he needs a dog not a gun.

Exactly. I’m not judging anybody but I don’t even keep the guns and the ammo in the same building. I have dogs. 
But if I did, it would be a revolver loaded with shot shells.

[Reagan1k 3008]

Hornady has dropped the 6mm ARC cartridge on the public.  Seems to double as an interesting long range target performer along with a medium sized game pill.

It's intriguing.  All of these new rounds have some degree of an answer seeking a problem (and most have been tried in various wildcat configs for some time before a major puts them to market).

Notable features

stays supersonic past 1000 yard. 

~50% less recoil than a .308 

75% more energy at 400 yards than a 5.56

Pushes up to a 108gr .243 projectile.

Doesn't require an AR10 platform - works in the lighter AR15 - reduced weight in-spite of higher mag capacity (24)

 

Some of the shooters on SnipersHide.com are saying its what the 6.5 Grendel should have been and that it's going to hit the .224 Val pretty hard if this is a cost competitive option.

SAAMI spec for 224V lists a 90gr @ 2,700 fps.

SAAMI spec for 6mmARC lists a 108gr @ 2,700 fps.

Berger's classic 6mm 105gr Hybrid has a 0.536 BC.

Berger’s new .224 85.5gr Hybrid has a 0.524 BC.

Berger’s new 6mm 109gr Hybrid has a 0.568 BC.

[4th and 5 4910]

On 6/3/2020 at 11:11 AM, Baboontyme said:

I know surly is big on its guns. I'm not really a gun guy but I'm going to get a shotgun strictly for home protection. I've got a buddy who is helping me pick something out and get the right accessories, but he is single and doesn't have the same needs that I do to keep everything secure. My kids are getting older, and I don't care if they know that there's a gun in the house, but I absolutely want to make sure it's secure. I know what I was like when I was a teenager, and I remember picking the lock to my dad's drawer to get his .38 just so we could go out into a field and shoot it into the ground. I have to remember that my kid shares my genes and I don't want this to be an option for him. I also don't have a ton of room for storage for a huge safe. I'm not terribly concerned about ultra quick access, I doubt this gun will ever be fired. But I guess in the even that something did ever happen I don't want to be fumbling around with a ton of combinations and keylocks. My current thought process is that I would keep the gun in a locked closet (not secure) with a biometric trigger lock like this and I would keep the shells somewhere separate but close-by in a small biometric safe like this . Do these seem like decent options?

22 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

We touched on this with revolvers earlier, but this is the appeal of the Taurus Judge to me. It's a revolver that shoots .410 shells. 

18 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Exactly. I’m not judging anybody but I don’t even keep the guns and the ammo in the same building. I have dogs. 
But if I did, it would be a revolver loaded with shot shells.

[TexasEd 8062]

There is a lot to be said for the "Understand the problem before you decide on the solution" course of decision making.

If you are worried about civil unrest, home invasion, interior wall penetration, kids, and all that what problem are you really trying to solve?

1. Define the scenario you are trying to address:  Is it the night time intruder? Someone coming when you aren't home? Kids toilet papering your house?

2. Define the level of force you are willing to take in that scenario: Airhorn? Video record them? kill them?

go from there

[bigshark88 388]

Brats suggested grips looking pretty nice on my new, New Vaquero

[Armybrat 40678]

Lookin’ good!

Hope the thicker grip over the factory laminated wood fits your hand ok.

[Jkwellborn 6649]

Frangible ammo is absolutely fucking worthless. You'd really do far better to have a bat, taser, mace, crowbar or any blunt/edged weapon over a 25 acp or 380 with frangible.
I understand the appeal and concern for over penetration, but if you live in a place where you can not plan around using standard ammo, a gun really isn't the best option.
I should kick back up the self defense thread I started that was largely ignored.
If all you own is a hammer all your problems look like nails. If you don't know how to operate a hammer, stop looking for nails. Be left of bang. Get ahead of the criminal blue print. If you go to guns you failed.
Or maybe I should just stop opening this thread.

Most people consider wadcutters and fmj to be standard ammo. No one in their right mind is shooting that inside a house, unless it’s their only option. But yeah, let’s get that other thread back going on occasion. Even if it’s just a handful of posts every month or so. It would be a good place to discuss plate carriers and that sort of thing too.

[crimsonlonghorn 2306]

7 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

Most people consider wadcutters and fmj to be standard ammo. No one in their right mind is shooting that inside a house, unless it’s their only option. But yeah, let’s get that other thread back going on occasion. Even if it’s just a handful of posts every month or so. It would be a good place to discuss plate carriers and that sort of thing too.

I would not be opposed to that thread. I've learned a lot in here, but would appreciate knowing more on that specific subject.

[BabaYaga 15202]

On 6/3/2020 at 12:37 PM, Baboontyme said:

Thanks for the thoughts. I'm not getting a hand gun. I'm not getting anything that's going to shoot through walls. I do not think the likelihood of someone breaking into my house is a large piece of the puzzle in why I'm looking for an extra layer of home protection. That said it's definitely a component of "home protection" and the point about having to go through extra layers of security in such an event is a good one. Perhaps a single safe would be a better option. 

What load are you going to carry in the shotgun?  Review the FBI ballistic penetration tests - shotguns, with heavy shot (0# & 00#) has the MOST interior wall penetration.  AR with frangible ammo was the least, followed by 9mm using expanding ammo.  

Shotguns are great - but they require training.  A pump-action:  "short-stroking" happens ALL THE TIME.  This is dangerous in a high stress situation.  Recoil and report are significant indoors.  They cab be deafening and disorienting, but Adrenalin usually compensates for this.  They can be intimidating for small-framed shooters.  Not sure if the intent is to have the rst of the house ready to use just in case (thinking spouse).

Availability - this is a big disadvantage as they require a stand-up safe, which is usually in the closet, away from the user.  This takes a significant amount of time to get to compared to a biometric safe in the nightstand.  If there is a break-in, your fine motor skills will GO TO SHIT.  Fumbling to get out of bed.  To the closet.  Open the safe.  Get back to the bedroom, etc.  Think about it.  Having a barking dog helps here - gives you time and as much early warning as Mother Nature allows and is itself a deterrent.  

You still have to aim.  Inside a house, there is effectively no pattern spread at all.  In your mind, you need to aim as if you are using slugs, which means you have to be able to clearly see and identify your target.  Night sights.  A light on the barrel even better.  

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD......if ANYONE, seller or otherwise, says "stroke the shotgun" and scare the perp, run away.  That guy/gal is a dangerously stupid idiot.  Trust nothing from their mouth from that point forward.  Your single biggest tactical advantage is your in-depth knowledge of the interior layout of your house and where everyone is.  They (perp) does not.  Don't give this away.  

It's Friday.  I'm hungover from a vendor dinner.....but I hope this helps.  

[BabaYaga 15202]

16 hours ago, 4th and 5 said:

God dammit this is funny

[texas08 1599]

Thanks for the thoughts. I'm not getting a hand gun. I'm not getting anything that's going to shoot through walls. I do not think the likelihood of someone breaking into my house is a large piece of the puzzle in why I'm looking for an extra layer of home protection. That said it's definitely a component of "home protection" and the point about having to go through extra layers of security in such an event is a good one. Perhaps a single safe would be a better option. 

Get a tomahawk, learn how to throw it.

Ah, the good ole tomahawk thread on the now scat site.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4965]

Getting a tomahawk and learning how to throw it is great advice, but not so much for home defense, as hard of a lump as that is to swallow. The best home defense gun is one that you are comfortable and can fire properly without thinking. A 10/22 might be better than a shotgun or AR if it is what you are know how to use without thinking. For some folks, a single action revolver might work well. It really all depends on what you are likely to spend time at the range with or even fingering while you watch movies after the wife and kids go to bed (unloaded obviously). Get a gun that you like and want to learn to shoot well. Then go learn to shoot it well. Know where everybody in your house is and where you can take a shot without endangering anybody else who isn't supposed to be endangered. But also remember that if it can penetrate a person enough to be effective, then it can penetrate a wall enough to be devastating to anybody on the other side of that wall.

[bigshark88 388]

Driving rain here today in the FL Panhandle.  (Someone create a 2020 Hurricane / TS thread BTW).

Haven't got to shoot the new, New Vaquero so I went to my town's only indoor range.  Today's experience reminded me how much indoor ranges suck ass.  First of all I abstained from the beer drinking train for a few hours so I could go shoot 30 rounds at a paper target at an indoor range.  With all the unrest going on, and because it was raining cats and dogs, there were about 234543456789754 people there waiting to pop off some rounds as well.  My town's only indoor range is in "not the best neighborhood".  I show up and put my money down and sat around in the gun store waiting for them to holler my name to head to the range...  They take your license too so you can't just say "F It" and storm out when it takes forever. 

Hanging in the gun store portion: two thirds of the customers I see are probably legally prohibited from owning firearms.  Conversations with the guys at the gun counter begin with: "Yo; you got a Draco?" or "Where the long clips at for a Glock 9?"  The customer line to the register to sign up for range time smelled of cannabis like a reggae festival (everyone 6ft apart).

Eventually they call my name and I check in with the target I bought.  I have a total of 30 45LC cartridges with me and the New Vaquero.  Check-in guy checks my gear, sees I've got my own eye and ear-pro (plugs) and recommends I take some of the range earmuffs "because".  Keep in mind this is a 15 lane, 25 yard, indoor range.  I ask how many long guns are on the range and he looks at the monitors, informs me there are several.  Oh shit.  I grab the (probably COVID infested) rental muffs and head to my spot.  There's an open AR case with the rifle laying in it on the gear table behind the firing lanes.  Right on top of the "absolutely no visible guns here" written right on the table surface.  Instead of being sat down in its hard case, the ARis askew, muzzle sticking out, horizontal to the multiple people standing around, inhaling lead, shooting or watching others shoot.  So basically I get muzzled just walking to my lane.   

Get to my lane and pin up my target.  Its so crowded it's hard to find a stapler to even get my target up in the mechanism.  Start shooting the 45LC and things are going okay.  Tank top guy next to me with a fat, tattooed girlfriend then takes after a target at a whole 25 yards with his AR variant.  Even with double ear pro it's hard to just stand there in the adjacent lane while the blast reaches out.  Also the un-burned powder subsequently makes a small cloud which probably would hold any future bigshark88 kid back a grade (if there were any future bigshark88 kids in the pipeline).  After he's talking over his 25 yard triumph with his AR, someone else started shooting a long gun and something (not sure what) comes back off the range, under the shooting surface, and hits me right below the knee.  No skin broken but it didn't feel like a shell casing.  

Finish up my 30 rounds of 45LC and check out.  Employee at the register gives me back my license and checks me out on the computer.  "You haven't been here since Fathers Day 2016" he says.  Yeah.  No shit.                

[Armybrat 40678]

Thanks for the reminder why I don’t like indoor ranges.

Ricochet? Somebody shooting steel tip out of their AR?

[Jhawk 1075]

If anyone doesn’t have laser boresights I can’t say how highly I recommend them. Just zero’d 3 guns at 100 yards in about 10 minutes. Amazing. 

[Speedtrucker 2063]

Honestly I don’t like many ranges at all, indoor ranges are far behind them by a mile.

Grew up in Hutchins across the street from the old gravel red clay quarry so shooting was easy, small arms on my family land and long range in the quarry. Miss those days.

[Jkwellborn 6649]

Living in a rural area has its privileges. I’ve never shot at a public range.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4965]

2 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

Living in a rural area has its privileges. I’ve never shot at a public range.

Yeah, I think we're pretty close to the same neighborhood. I've shot at a public range probably less than ten times in my entire life. I could probably remember them all. Luckily, we have family land. And in the event that I want an actual range to shoot at with properly measured distances and such, my work has a range available for employees for the low cost of something like $5 a year.

[Armybrat 40678]

7 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Yeah, I think we're pretty close to the same neighborhood. I've shot at a public range probably less than ten times in my entire life. I could probably remember them all. Luckily, we have family land. 

Same here.

[fattyflattie 4636]

On 6/5/2020 at 8:30 AM, BabaYaga said:

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD......if ANYONE, seller or otherwise, says "stroke the shotgun" and scare the perp, run away.  That guy/gal is a dangerously stupid idiot.

Since, I'm the dangerously stupid idiot offender here, I'll at least give my reasoning.   

The ideal situation is that the offender decides at some point to abort his burglary, correct?  It's either that, or to stop the offender through force.  Which is why a dog, alarm, whatever is an ideal first deterrent.   If your goal is to kill/stop the offender with force, then there might be a better way to go about it then announcing your presence.  But unless you are OK with shooting the offender without any notice (not arguing one way or other on that) then you will have to give up your position at some point.  Yelling Freeze/stop/get down whatever, or shining a light on them (as suggested above with an air pistol) gives away your position.  Of course having a weapon that's ready to go trained on them when you holler that out is MUCH better, it is still giving up your position.  

Unfortunately, you can literally take one walk around my house and identify every single room save the mud room.  I would add a hall half bath to that, but my wife hung an artsy pintrest sign bullshit above the door, so that's visible too.  The garage and office from street.  The formal dining, kitchen, living room, and bedroom entrance can be seen from back door/windows (large windows, not shuttered).  In case you cant tell that's the master from the back door, you can easily interpret the bay windows and master bath windows as the master, by simply looking 20' to your right from the back porch.  To add insult to this, there is one entrance/exit to my master.  So you are hunkered in there, if it comes to that.  As I was thinking this out, it actually bothered me  how much of my house is visible from the yard. No rear neighbors only exacerbates it.  Further concerning me, is that with only the master on the 1st floor, all the kids are upstairs.   I'm not an expert thief but it's pretty easy to see where those bedrooms are from outside, or immediately once inside.  

So thinking thru all of this, my only options are to 1) hope thief retreats immediately (we have alarm and dog (shes  50/50 on lick to death, or actually fight))    2) use deadly force before thief makes it 25' to stairwell, where my everything important in my life resides, upstairs.    To be completely honest,  I'd rather bury wife as deep back in the master closet as possible and do anything possible to keep someone from going upstairs.  In real life, that's the only goal.  

That's my thoughts on it anyhow.   I assume everyone is armed and has home protection.  The 3 or 4 couples our age on my street that we regularly associate with, not a single one of them owns a gun (wtf?)   I don't know if that is common (wouldn't think so) but maybe that's the assumption thieves make.  My thoughts on it were also assuming this is a break in/robbery, not some assassin where we are playing cat and mouse in my 4 bed suburban house.  

I've never been in a break in situation where I needed to make these decisions.  I do know I've got well over 10k rounds thru one 870, and another ~5k thru a second without a single short stroke.  In fact, the only failure I've ever had in the last 24 years (12th birthday present) with either was hunting with rusty shells and ruining the rim on ejection.  I've done that a few times when I was younger because steel shot is expensive, and it doesn't look that bad.  I don't have any autoloaders (someday I guess) but my pumps have had even less issues that my OUs, which I can only think of 2-3 times (also ejection, but with good shells) over 5-7.5k shells.    I completely understand hunting/clay /=/ home defense situation.  But ffs, if you are shooing enough to be proficient, (flat/year?) you would think that "short stroking" would be minimized.  And if your goal is to shoot someone without announcing your presence, you probably aren't going to be stroking it more than once.  I mean you are shooting them at >50' with buckshot center mass, while from a hidden position.  They are going to be down as fast as you can get another ready to go, if they are anything like the pigs and deer I've taken with buckshot.    I can easily see where you can short stroke if you are in some type of movie like fire fight.    Come to think of it, I'm probably moving my revolvers to the bedside safe, I've had more issues thru the years with my semi auto pistols than anything, which isn't much, but more than 0.  

The only right answer I see is that you use dog/alarm to do the front end work, and whatever you use, make sure are proficient with it.  

Flame away.

[Jhawk 1075]

The range I’ve been using in Tulsa had an attempted murder suicide at it on Friday. 5 others in the stalls. Couldn’t imagine what you do if you’re in a stall and watch someone off another guy. Start shooting? Run down range? What about the other people in the narrow aisle?

[Parliament 14112]

I'm moving for work this Summer and might hafta move to a rented apartment. If so, I gotta store my guns off-site. I have safes for everything. Uhaul (and others) has climate-controlled storage. So it'd be guns in a locked safe, in a locked heated/cooled storage unit. Is that safe? Would you do it? Do the storage places allow guns and ammo?

[Jkwellborn 6649]

Fuck no that’s not safe.

[Jhawk 1075]

I rent. I’m Reasonably sure there are firearms policies at my apartment. I haven’t checked. I will not sacrifice my firearms to anyone but Davey Jones. I have never been bugged any place I have lived and all places have me on camera carrying gun cases in and out. If you are worried about it you might consider renting a house instead of an apartment. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

46 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

The range I’ve been using in Tulsa had an attempted murder suicide at it on Friday. 5 others in the stalls. Couldn’t imagine what you do if you’re in a stall and watch someone off another guy. Start shooting? Run down range? What about the other people in the narrow aisle?

Jesus, what a nightmare. I think in that scenario you would have to just tackle them and hope you can get there before they can react and pull.