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Texas vs Seton Hall- Thursday, Dec. 9th, 5:30 pm on FS1

shadow_operative

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TexArcher

TexArcher 39056

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1 minute ago, Newdoc said:

This team has potential to be top 10. Maybe. Should be definitely below 15 for now. Not that it matters until midway through conference play.

The Big 12 is going to be tough. The other teams are beating higher ranked non conference opponents. We need a true big and three point shooting on the road.

Yeah, but we have a lot of new faces and arguably the best coach in the game.  It stands to reason that we'll improve throughout the season more than anyone.  KU and BU are ahead of us now, but in Jan, Feb, March?  We'll see.

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Blotto

Blotto 24011

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The result sucks as that was an immensely winnable game, but the team seems to be following the usual Beard pattern. D looks pretty good, offense has a long way to go, but the team plays hard. Seems that was what our resident tech fans told us to expect. I'm not worried about this team missing the tourney, so we'll see what form we're in by the 2nd half of the conference schedule.  We're definitely going to need some better guard play.  

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ztejas

ztejas 44224

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Just now, Rockethorn1978 said:

We’re not going to the final 4. Lmao.

Yeah - I don't think so either. We don't have any stars. Maybe Mitchell develops into that but I don't see anyone in this backcourt heating up on ocassion and going for 20+ consistently in conference play. 

This team should be better with Disu but ultimately lack of shot creation is going to establish a pretty firm ceiling. I think a SS trip would be a great first season.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13453

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1 minute ago, Gut Wagon said:

Close losses when you display total ineptitude on offense are never really excusable, even on the road. Carr had better start coming to play. Without Mitchell, this one was a 15-point blowout. 

I don’t think we were inept. During the cold spell we missed two wide open threes and had multiple good chances around the rim. We didn’t finish but we still created opportunities to score.

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dcar00

dcar00 14947

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2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I don’t think we were inept. During the cold spell we missed two wide open threes and had multiple good chances around the rim. We didn’t finish but we still created opportunities to score.

carr missed a complete fucking bunny.

we got zero calls underneath and seton hall was getting touch fouls on drives and boards.

that said 1-13 from 3.  Shaka special.  you just can't be that shitty and expect to win.

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VinyVango

VinyVango 708

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Competitive road loss against a bigger saltier team but our guards pissed the bed … Mitchell showed an ability to dominate a bit tonight so that’s a plus … we need a guard hitting open jumpers to beat a good team to keep defenses from sagging on Allen and Mitchell


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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13453

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11 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

carr missed a complete fucking bunny.

we got zero calls underneath and seton hall was getting touch fouls on drives and boards.

that said 1-13 from 3.  Shaka special.  you just can't be that shitty and expect to win.

True but a Shaka special would have involved every guy on the team taking the bad shots carr did.

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ztejas

ztejas 44224

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11 minutes ago, VinyVango said:

Competitive road loss against a bigger saltier team but our guards pissed the bed … Mitchell showed an ability to dominate a bit tonight so that’s a plus … we need a guard hitting open jumpers to beat a good team to keep defenses from sagging on Allen and Mitchell


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Ramey was good - he still does head scratching shit like not attempt fairly open layups but he at least affects the court without the ball in his hands and plays above his size a bit on D. I thought Febres actually looked pretty good too he just didn't get the ball much. Carr and AJ need to forget this one. Askew didn't really play enough to do anything that good or bad (I did like the open jumper he created for himself on the baseline but he missed it).

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dcar00

dcar00 14947

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15 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Ramey was good - he still does head scratching shit like not attempt fairly open layups but he at least affects the court without the ball in his hands and plays above his size a bit on D. I thought Febres actually looked pretty good too he just didn't get the ball much. Carr and AJ need to forget this one. Askew didn't really play enough to do anything that good or bad (I did like the open jumper he created for himself on the baseline but he missed it).

for being a Kentucky dude Askew looks extremely raw to me.  

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dcar00

dcar00 14947

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the biggest takeaway from watching the gonzaga and seton hall games is that Carr isn't all that on the offensive end.  I expected a bit more athleticism and some blow by ability.

hopefully it gets better.  I like that we take it to the teams we should blow out and don't let up.  that didn't happen a lot in the Shaka years.

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TexArcher

TexArcher 39056

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10 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Need to play good teams to figure out where you need work.   Beard's got work to do, but thank god for the transfers he brought in...  🤘

And this is why a loss like this is so much less frustrating now.

The last few years, we all saw the flaws and we knew the coach didn't.  I trust Beard to fix what needs fixing.

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ztejas

ztejas 44224

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17 minutes ago, Steelers Roll Left said:

So basically they’ve lost the only 2 games they’ve played this year that mattered.

Well... the games against cupcakes don't matter until you fuck around and lose or almost lose one. We could be doing that and we aren't.

I also don't really think the Gonzaga game was that winnable. Despite them dropping a couple away from home to really good teams. 

This is a solid team that should compete for the B12 crown - but projecting this squad to the FF was premature. Although who knows - maybe we get Disu in the lineup and Carr has an epiphany and we don't look back. A lot of ball to be played. 

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dcar00

dcar00 14947

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14 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

In addition to being small, we’re not a very quick team, either.  Lots of athletic limitations for a team trying to compete at a top 10 level.

Mitchell and Allen are our best players by far, though, which reinforces how much worse we would have been with Shaka this year than with Beard’s mercenary roster.

yeah I was hoping one of these new guys had some quickness above AJ/Ramey.  unfortunately they don't look any quicker.

It is nice seeing an inside game that doesn't just consist of lobs and put back dunks.

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 15230

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15 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

In addition to being small, we’re not a very quick team, either.  Lots of athletic limitations for a team trying to compete at a top 10 level.

Mitchell and Allen are our best players by far, though, which reinforces how much worse we would have been with Shaka this year than with Beard’s mercenary roster.

Without Disu this team can't compete on the boards against Quad 1 teams for 40 minutes.

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4 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Before Beard came here, there were murmurings among the Tech folks about the tediousness of his offense. Texas fans don’t murmur. There will be open rebellion before season’s end.

LOLz at the notion of rabid Texas hoops fans even existing, much less bothering Beard.

He still has plenty of work to do.  TEAM doesn't happen overnight.  He coaches his ass off and things will most likely drastically improve.

If Texas fans run him off in a year( unlikely, I know)  who the fuck ever would be willing to come to the 40 Acres, aside from getting paid?

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ztejas

ztejas 44224

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5 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Before Beard came here, there were murmurings among the Tech folks about the tediousness of his offense. Texas fans don’t murmur. There will be open rebellion before season’s end.

What a stupid-ass comment. It took 6 years for Shaka Smart to get fired at Texas and that was with 0 tournament wins. You think Texas fans are going to get fed up with Beard in the middle of season 1?

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dcar00

dcar00 14947

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4 minutes ago, slorch said:

LOLz at the notion of rabid Texas hoops fans even existing, much less bothering Beard.

He still has plenty of work to do.  TEAM doesn't happen overnight.  He coaches his ass off and things will most likely drastically improve.

If Texas fans run him off in a year( unlikely, I know)  who the fuck ever would be willing to come to the 40 Acres, aside from getting paid?

there isn't going to be open rebellion or running him off.

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Satchel

Satchel 6982

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, ztejas said:

What a stupid-ass comment. It took 6 years for Shaka Smart to get fired at Texas and that was with 0 tournament wins. You think Texas fans are going to get fed up with Beard in the middle of season 1?

There were “fire Shaka” posts during his first year. Stupid ass comment indeed.

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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6862

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25 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Before Beard came here, there were murmurings among the Tech folks about the tediousness of his offense. Texas fans don’t murmur. There will be open rebellion before season’s end.

I'm not with you on the open rebellion part, but this is absolutely true. Every year he was here, in fact. And our record in close games during his tenure was really, really bad overall. Those two things were the major complaints Tech fans had and it was pretty much a constant refrain. I've watched enough Beard Ball to understand the truths behind it.

It was (and continues to be, with Adams, since he preaches the same philosophy) my main personal complaint about "positionless basketball". It's great on the defensive end for the most part, but it can really leave you severely lacking in the half court without some truly elite ball-handlers. When we had Keenan Evans on our team or Jarrett Culver/Matt Mooney, the offense really flowed well for the most part. Without those guys on the court, our offense varied from average/above-average to flat out bad at times. Adams and Beard frequently butted heads about the offense putting too much pressure on the defense in a lot of games.

It SEEMS like Texas should have good enough guard play to overcome those limitations, in addition to some solid outside shooting threats, but I'm not seeing it play out yet. It could click toward the end of the season or it could just continue at this pace for the rest of it, depends on how the players respond.

The playcalling (or lack thereof) in the final minutes of close games will be a constant headache and it's just something you will have to learn to live with. It never got any better during his tenure at Tech. Just about every big moment we had was the result of player improvisation.

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ztejas

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1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

I'm not with you on the open rebellion part, but this is absolutely true. Every year he was here, in fact. And our record in close games during his tenure was really, really bad overall. Those two things were the major complaints Tech fans had and it was pretty much a constant refrain. I've watched enough Beard Ball to understand the truths behind it.

It was (and continues to be, with Adams, since he preaches the same philosophy) my main personal complaint about "positionless basketball". It's great on the defensive end for the most part, but it can really leave you severely lacking in the half court without some truly elite ball-handlers. When we had Keenan Evans on our team or Jarrett Culver/Matt Mooney, the offense really flowed well for the most part. Without those guys on the court, our offense varied from average/above-average to flat out bad at times. Adams and Beard frequently butted heads about the offense putting too much pressure on the defense in a lot of games.

It SEEMS like Texas should have good enough guard play to overcome those limitations, in addition to some solid outside shooting threats, but I'm not seeing it play out yet. It could click toward the end of the season or it could just continue at this pace for the rest of it, depends on how the players respond.

The playcalling (or lack thereof) in the final minutes of close games will be a constant headache and it's just something you will have to learn to live with. It never got any better during his tenure at Tech. Just about every big moment we had was the result of player improvisation.

The main advantage Beard has at Texas is that he will get better players. That fixes a lot of issues when it comes to half court offense and end of game situations. The problem with this year - even with a bunch of transfers - is that he doesn't have those guys on campus yet. Tre Mitchell and Carr and Allen are great pick ups to fill holes in the roster but they will never be as impactful as the right top 10-15 national recruits. There is no Paolo Banchero or Chet Holmgren on this team. We'll have a better idea of Beard's ceiling once guys like that start rolling in. 

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honolulu horn

honolulu horn 6227

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Final Four expectations were premature. Carr tagged as preseason Big 12 newcomer of the year was premature. Top five ranking was premature. It's very clear that we are not at the same level as Zaga, Duke, etc. 

Still, compared to where we left off last season, this coach and team are still a 1,000,000x upgrade. I think a 3-5 seed and a Sweet 16 appearance are realistic. Doubt we'll see many all-conference accolades as this team (outside of perhaps Mitchell and Allen) seem to be a cast of badasses rather than superstars. But we really do need a first-class point guard and a good defensive rebounding presence. At least we have the latter coming back...hopefully soon. 

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ztejas

ztejas 44224

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2 minutes ago, Revolution512 said:

Who in the hell had Final Four expectations? 

I don't know about "expectations" but just from SI two of four here have us in the FF. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/college/2021/11/04/ncaa-basketball-predictions-final-four-2022-ucla-gonzaga

We were preseason #5, by the way.

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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31 minutes ago, Satchel said:

There were “fire Shaka” posts during his first year. Stupid ass comment indeed.

those posts started in his second year, and it was like three of us shaggy hardcore fans. Shaka never even got fired, he left on his own, and had he not managed to lose to Abilene Christian he'd still be here. if Shaka's seat ever got hot at Texas it happened like a week before he left for Marquette. 

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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6862

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17 minutes ago, ztejas said:

The main advantage Beard has at Texas is that he will get better players. That fixes a lot of issues when it comes to half court offense and end of game situations. The problem with this year - even with a bunch of transfers - is that he doesn't have those guys on campus yet. Tre Mitchell and Carr and Allen are great pick ups to fill holes in the roster but they will never be as impactful as the right top 10-15 national recruits. There is no Paolo Banchero or Chet Holmgren on this team. We'll have a better idea of Beard's ceiling once guys like that start rolling in. 

If he pulls in the right guards, absolutely. My point was just that his style of offense seems (from what I've seen over the years) to very heavily rely on guards/wings that can get to the hoop on their own, consistently. And when your main recruiting focus is "positionless basketball" and defending, that can seem to get lost in the sauce.

Without that, the offense struggles A LOT. That's played out without fail on every team he's had at the P5 level so far, and it seems to ring true with this Texas team so far. It was a big reason why (just to give an example) once they didn't have an Evans or a Culver/Mooney around, guys like Davide Moretti fell off pretty hard in production. Having shooters, even athletic ones that can defend well, just flat out isn't good enough. Pretty much every guard he brought in, even the highly ranked guys like Jahmius Ramsey (great shooter, great athlete/defender, not a great ball handler/driver/finisher), couldn't carry the offense past being average/above average without that skill.

Guys with that sort of ball skill are just not all that common in college basketball nowadays. For every Carsen Edwards (just to give an example), there are a hundred guards that pass the eye test and shoot well but just don't have the ball skills to walk the walk.

Edited by Brian Fantana
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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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there's a whole lotta dumb in this thread, and i don't k is that i have the energy right now to address it all. i guess i'll just say that

A)anyone who is jumping to conclusions about this team's ceiling at this ooont if the season is dumb

and 

B)anyone who can't see the many glaring differences in this close loss and countless close losses under Shaka just win doesn't know what they're watching. this is the most intelligent and trustworthy Texas team since Shaka's first year here. 

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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there's plenty of empirical evidence that Marcus Carr is a very good major conference basketball player. for whatever reason it has not yet translated to Texas, but if/when the light does go on for him it will be like adding a whole new player midseason. this team and these players have so much real, feasible room for growth it's dumb. our (arguably) most important player hasn't even played for us yet. chill out on all of this conclusion jumping. 

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dcar00

dcar00 14947

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16 minutes ago, honolulu horn said:

Final Four expectations were premature. Carr tagged as preseason Big 12 newcomer of the year was premature. Top five ranking was premature. It's very clear that we are not at the same level as Zaga, Duke, etc. 

Still, compared to where we left off last season, this coach and team are still a 1,000,000x upgrade. I think a 3-5 seed and a Sweet 16 appearance are realistic. Doubt we'll see many all-conference accolades as this team (outside of perhaps Mitchell and Allen) seem to be a cast of badasses rather than superstars. But we really do need a first-class point guard and a good defensive rebounding presence. At least we have the latter coming back...hopefully soon. 

I'm pretty sure this team and coach rolls fucking Northern Iowa or Abilene Christian and never misses the tournament so I'm good.

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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6862

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1 minute ago, shadow_operative said:

there's plenty of empirical evidence that Marcus Carr is a very good major conference basketball player. for whatever reason it has not yet translated to Texas, but if/when the light does go on for him it will be like adding a whole new player midseason. this team and these players have so much real, feasible room for growth it's dumb. our (arguably) most important player hasn't even played for us yet. chill out on all of this conclusion jumping. 

Have to agree that he seems to have the skills and passes the eye test. It'll either click or it won't. If it does, the offense will step up a level for sure.

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