New Zealand outlaws smoking for those born after 2008

[CooterBrown 17913]

Interesting idea. By keeping it legal for those born prior to that age, it makes it hard for someone to lobby that future generations need to smoke since their smoking rights aren't affected.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/09/new-zealand-to-ban-smoking-for-next-generation-in-bid-to-outlaw-habit-by-2025

 

New Zealand has announced it will outlaw smoking for the next generation, so that those who are aged 14 and under today will never be legally able to buy tobacco.

New legislation means the legal smoking age will increase every year, to create a smoke-free generation of New Zealanders, associate health minister Dr Ayesha Verrall said on Thursday.

“This is a historic day for the health of our people,” she said.

The government announced the rising age alongside other measures to make smoking unaffordable and inaccessible, to try to reach its goal of making the country entirely smoke-free within the next four years. Other measures include reducing the legal amount of nicotine in tobacco products to very low levels, cutting down the shops where cigarettes could legally be sold, and increasing funding to addiction services. The new laws will not restrict vape sales.

“We want to make sure young people never start smoking so we will make it an offence to sell or supply smoked tobacco products to new cohorts of youth. People aged 14 when the law comes into effect will never be able to legally purchase tobacco,” Verrall said.

New Zealand’s daily smoking rates have been dropping over time – down to 11.6% in 2018, from 18% a decade earlier. But smoking rates for Māori and Pacifika were far higher – 29% for Māori and 18% for Pasifika. “If nothing changes, it would be decades till Māori smoking rates fall below 5%,” Verrall said. She said eradicating smoking in the next four years was within reach: “I believe it is. In fact, we’re on track to for the New Zealand European population. The issue is, though, if we don’t change what we’re doing, we won’t make it for Maori – and that’s [what] the plan is really focused on”.

The policies were welcomed by public health experts on Thursday. “New Zealand once again leads the world – this time with a cutting-edge smokefree 2025 implementation plan – it’s truly a game changer,” said Dr Natalie Walker, director of the Centre for Addiction Research at University of Auckland. The reduction of nicotine in cigarettes was a world first, said public health prof Chris Bullen. From a health perspective, “all my wishes have come true”, he said.

Smoking has already been widely replaced by vaping among teenage New Zealanders, and is also attracting many young people who would never have taken up smoking – according to surveying of 19,000 high school students this year, nearly 20% were vaping daily or several times a day, the majority with high nicotine doses. That’s compared to 3% of those aged 15-17 who smoked daily in 2018, or 13% who smoked a decade earlier.

The plan has come under criticism from some parties – the Act party has argued that reducing the nicotine in products will hit lower-income people hardest, who will have to buy more cigarettes and smoke more to access the same dose. Verrall said the very low levels required by the laws had been researched and proven to help people quit.

Concerns have also been raised about a growing black market for tobacco. The government acknowledged this risk in initial proposals: “Evidence indicates that the amount of tobacco products being smuggled into New Zealand has increased substantially in recent years and organised criminal groups are involved in large-scale smuggling,” it said.

Initial plans for a smoke free generation of New Zealanders have now been finalised after public consultation. They were first floated in April. They will still need to pass through the legislative process, but should not face any obstacles – Smokefree 2025 is a headline Labour policy, and the party holds a majority in New Zealand parliament. Verrall said the legislation would be introduced in 2022, with the age limits coming in in 2023.

Edited December 9, 2021 by CooterBrown

[Biff Tannen 45497]

Probably a good idea.  Would never fly in America though.

[Guest Lobo]

Nice tiny little caveat in that whole long story "will not effect vape sales."  I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a teenager smoking a regular cigarette.  But I can't walk a fucking block in Austin without seeing a group of 'em huddled together, vaping like it's the End of the World.  I guess it's true though, Nicotine by itself isn't all that bad for you, it's the delivery mechanism with all the other shit in it that was the truly harmful part. 

My mother and father smoked a pack a day each for 50 years.  I've probably smoked 50 cigarettes over the course of my life.  If it wasn't for my two older cousins here in Austin who smoke like they're on a 70's Soap Opera, my two children wouldn't even know what a cigarette is.  The one-two punch of objective health information finally coming out after a century of obfuscation, and making it uncool to smoke was more than enough to bury cigarettes.  Not sure you need a government-wide ban on it for an entire generation, 95% of 'em wouldn't have smoked anyway.  The other 5%, you need dead anyway just for population purposes.  May as well go out doing something they love. 

I will never understand though how so many people, for so long, didn't think smoking could be bad for you when they had to start the product on fire before they could consume it.  If they lit my cocktail or wine on fire before I could drink it, I'd probably drink a helluva lot less.  But I'd probably still try, so I get it.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

5 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Probably a good idea.  Would never fly in America though.

Agree but this is a novel approach. I can't imagine many adult smokers would say that it's a good idea that the kids of today should be the smokers of tomorrow. Perhaps even today's adult smokers might go for this type of ban as it doesn't apply to them. Or at least they may not fight it.

It would be a weird hill to die on to protect pre-teens' right to smoke in the future.

For any one that opposes laws like this in terms of freedom of choice, go visit a pulmonologist's waiting room to see all of the Medicare recipients on oxygen. Our tax dollars are subsidizing their freedom to smoke.

[smuggs 9342]

4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a teenager smoking a regular cigarette....

... If they lit my cocktail or wine on fire before I could drink it, I'd probably drink a helluva lot less.  But I'd probably still try, so I get it.  

 

"You're not hanging out at the right parties, brah."

 

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

29 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Probably a good idea.  Would never fly in America though.

Republicans who don't smoke would take up smoking just to spite the liberals who want to tell them what to do.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Very interesting.

Also, just made me realize that if the move to ban smoking in public/on planes/at restaurants etc. was happening today?

It would 100% be another bullshit culture war battle.

[SimonBolivar 10931]

15 minutes ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

Republicans who don't smoke would take up smoking just to spite the liberals who want to tell them what to do.

I had a guy yesterday come into my office wheezing up a storm joking that he needed to quit smoking (early 60s, overweight). He then proceeded to tell me that he just received his flu vaccine after he made the doctor promise him that it wouldn't change his DNA. He still refuses to get a COVID vaccine, but is cool with that sweet sweet Joe Camel doing his thing.

[RPM 26229]

3 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

I had a guy yesterday come into my office wheezing up a storm joking that he needed to quit smoking (early 60s, overweight). He then proceeded to tell me that he just received his flu vaccine after he made the doctor promise him that it wouldn't change his DNA. He still refuses to get a COVID vaccine, but is cool with that sweet sweet Joe Camel doing his thing.

He really should dip just to be sure.

[Neonmoon 38127]

If I make it to 70 years old, I'm going to say fuck it, and start smoking again. 

[Nivek 16860]

9 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

I had a guy yesterday come into my office wheezing up a storm joking that he needed to quit smoking (early 60s, overweight). He then proceeded to tell me that he just received his flu vaccine after he made the doctor promise him that it wouldn't change his DNA. He still refuses to get a COVID vaccine, but is cool with that sweet sweet Joe Camel doing his thing.

your fault for not kicking him out.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11810]

Legislating morality always turns out well.  

[SimonBolivar 10931]

8 minutes ago, Nivek said:

your fault for not kicking him out.

Hah, I'd guess that I have the largest unvaccinated client base in the country outside of the dude that sells flags on the side of the road. I have a standing order where one dude comes in every week and takes out $6,000.00 in cash that he then hides in his house so that when the "Biden's $600" rule comes into place he won't have to worry about it. I quit trying to reason with them somewhere around 2016.

[burntorangebongos 10681]

Did I read that right, they are doing nothing about the vaping?

Edited December 9, 2021 by burntorangebongos

[Guest Lobo]

I have to rerun some Pyrex to his wife that they left here on Labor Day.   Can you PM me his home address?  I’ll drop it off after I pickup a few things at Home Depot.  

[Foosters 17733]

28 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Legislating morality always turns out well.  

Is my sarcasm meter broken?

That's the whole idea behind all laws that prohibit conduct.

[Hornius Emeritus 12420]

2 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Is my sarcasm meter broken?

That's the whole idea behind all laws that prohibit conduct.

Yes. And they always turn out so well. 

[Neonmoon 38127]

The no molesting children law is probably a keeper

[Judge Roybeanbag 11810]

9 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Is my sarcasm meter broken?

That's the whole idea behind all laws that prohibit conduct.

Like the honorable ToT said above, there are morality laws we can agree on, like murder, or rape, or stuff like that.  Then there are passive morality laws.  Like smoking, or strip club taxes, or not buying booze before a certain time on a given day, or not allowing car dealerships to be open 7 days a week, or only allowing 3/5ths of negroes to vote.  You know, bullshit laws.  The common pig sludge that holds the puritans together.  Laws for thee, not for me.  

I'll edit to say, I believe we have devolved to a point in our culture and technical capabilities, that we no longer need lawmakers, legislators, senates, none of that crap.  We just need to vote democratically on the rules.  Yeah, that's the ticket.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Judge Roybeanbag

[WhatTheBuck 28712]

1 hour ago, Lobo said:

Nicotine by itself isn't all that bad for you

Nicotine is poison. Take enough of it and it can kill you. Regular smoking won’t do it. But a concentrated dose can be lethal.

I can tell you this from experience: Do not, I repeat DO NOT smoke cigarettes while you’re wearing the nicotine patch. I thought I was having a heart attack. My heartbeat went haywire.

[Bateshorn 9905]

Good.  Fuck cigarettes. They took my dad, and my mom is battling lung cancer as a second hand user.  Every time I drive by the Phillip Morris headquarters in Richmond I make a point of saying Merchants of Death.

I quit 6 years ago and it was the best decision of my life.  Fucking foul, disgusting death sticks. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Bateshorn

[hayden_horn 11360]

51 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

If I make it to 70 years old, I'm going to say fuck it, and start smoking again. 

me too.

fucking hell, i love smoking.

i've been only smoking while traveling for years, and since traveling stopped for covid, i've been smoke free.

but damn, i miss it. won't do it around my kids, but there's something about it that i love.

[Guest Lobo]

I think I could probably surmise that’s a bad idea on own, but thank you for sharing. 

[ZB'Tejas 593]

1 hour ago, RPM said:

He really should dip just to be sure.

On an airplane...

[formermav43 4599]

15 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Like the honorable ToT said above, there are morality laws we can agree on, like murder, or rape, or stuff like that.  Then there are passive morality laws.  Like smoking, or strip club taxes, or not buying booze before a certain time on a given day, or not allowing car dealerships to be open 7 days a week, or only allowing 3/5ths of negroes to vote.  You know, bullshit laws.  The common pig sludge that holds the puritans together.  Laws for thee, not for me.  

The 3/5ths comprise and forcing car dealerships to close one day of the weekend: two historic atrocities.

[Guest Lobo]

I think I could probably surmise that’s a bad idea on own, but thank you for sharing. 

[Guest Lobo]

I think I could probably surmise that’s a bad idea on own, 

[formermav43 4599]

Just now, Lobo said:

I think I could probably surmise that’s a bad idea on own, 

But thank you for sharing?

[RPM 26229]

I think?

[Guest Lobo]

I think I could probably surmise that’s a bad idea on own, but thank you for sharing

The smoking with the patch on deal

Wi-Fi for shit here at this coffee joint

Edited December 9, 2021 by Lobo

[hobbes2702 12846]

I guess my question would be what’s the penalty? If this is they are banned and if caught you get forced to do some kind of treatment then sure let’s do it. If this is like drug laws then I am wholly opposed. We shouldn’t criminalize healthcare problems. I’m not saying that’s what is happening here but I want to see more.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

10 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I guess my question would be what’s the penalty? If this is they are banned and if caught you get forced to do some kind of treatment then sure let’s do it. If this is like drug laws then I am wholly opposed. We shouldn’t criminalize healthcare problems. I’m not saying that’s what is happening here but I want to see more.

I assume the penalty is with the vendor selling cigarettes to someone born after 2008. Or someone that supplies cigarettes to that person.

[hobbes2702 12846]

3 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I assume the penalty is with the vendor selling cigarettes to someone born after 2008. Or someone that supplies cigarettes to that person.

I’ll allow it.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11810]

38 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

The 3/5ths comprise and forcing car dealerships to close one day of the weekend: two historic atrocities.

Yeah, I don't feel like dealing with your shit, so you can go pound sand.  Signed, founding fathers.  Execept nah, just what we WISHED they said.

[Willfully Horn 7915]

45 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Nicotine is poison. Take enough of it and it can kill you. Regular smoking won’t do it. But a concentrated dose can be lethal.

I can tell you this from experience: Do not, I repeat DO NOT smoke cigarettes while you’re wearing the nicotine patch. I thought I was having a heart attack. My heartbeat went haywire.

That it is a poison because high doses are lethal is interesting. I’m not saying it is safe, just that volume being the killer leads to interesting thoughts. 
 

Arnica is poisonous, but in VERY small doses it is also a remarkable anti-inflammatory and whatever word means “stop the bruising process. (I like to say magical because of the romance that word carries (and it pisses off the too scientific folks I see through work,) and magical conveys how surprisingly effective it us).

Alchol will kill at a certain volume. It is a poison.   Water isn’t poisonous,but, at the right volume, it’s lethal, too. Try to eat enough weed, you might die, but not from the chemicals.
 

All that to say, there’s likely some other metric than volume that makes something poisonous.

[Beau Vine 54003]

I have never smoked a cigarette in my life. 

I once broke up with a girl because she wouldn't stop smoking.

I did get back with her a week later because she was a freaking blowjob machine, and getting your dick sucked every time you're in a car with her or whenever you go into a clothing store dressing room offsets a lot, including the disgusting habit of smoking. 

[Willfully Horn 7915]

56 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Nicotine is poison. Take enough of it and it can kill you. Regular smoking won’t do it. But a concentrated dose can be lethal.

I can tell you this from experience: Do not, I repeat DO NOT smoke cigarettes while you’re wearing the nicotine patch. I thought I was having a heart attack. My heartbeat went haywire.

That it is a poison because high doses are lethal is interesting. I’m not saying it is safe, just that volume being the killer leads to interesting thoughts. 
 

Arnica is poisonous, but in VERY small doses it is also a remarkable anti-inflammatory and whatever word means “stop the bruising process. (I like to say magical because of the romance that word carries (and it pisses off the too scientific folks I see through work,) and magical conveys how surprisingly effective it us).

Alchol will kill at a certain volume. It is a poison.   Water isn’t poisonous,but, at the right volume, it’s lethal, too. Try to eat enough weed, you might die, but not from the chemicals.
 

All that to say, there’s likely some other metric than volume that makes something poisonous.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11810]

41 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

The 3/5ths comprise and forcing car dealerships to close one day of the weekend: two historic atrocities.

I laughed.  But you have to admit, wtf?

[Judge Roybeanbag 11810]

Just now, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I laughed.  But you have to admit, wtf?

you gonna tell grandma she can't stuff some earl gray tea in her cheek?  

[Degenerate Gardner 4081]

47 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

Did I read that right, they are doing nothing about the vaping?

That sticks out, doesn’t it? The Kiwis aren’t outlawing smoking, they’re outlawing cigarettes. It seems like an odd and somewhat out of touch distinction to make given vaping trends amount the utes.

[Guest Lobo]

11 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

I have never smoked a cigarette in my life. 

I once broke up with a girl because she wouldn't stop smoking.

I did get back with her a week later because she was a freaking blowjob machine, and getting your dick sucked every time you're in a car with her or whenever you go into a clothing store dressing room offsets a lot, including the disgusting habit of smoking. 

Darnit beau vine, I’ll bite…

did she ever blow you while she was smoking?

[formermav43 4599]

16 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Yeah, I don't feel like dealing with your shit, so you can go pound sand.  Signed, founding fathers.  Execept nah, just what we WISHED they said.

 

14 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I laughed.  But you have to admit, wtf?

My exact reaction to these two responses back to back.

[Beau Vine 54003]

19 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Darnit beau vine, I’ll bite…

did she ever blow you while she was smoking?

Hell no, I have principles!

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

if she smokes, she pokes.

[Bateshorn 9905]

Just now, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

if she smokes, she pokes.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

23 minutes ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

That sticks out, doesn’t it? The Kiwis aren’t outlawing smoking, they’re outlawing cigarettes. It seems like an odd and somewhat out of touch distinction to make given vaping trends amount the utes.

Semantics but I think most people think of cigarettes when the word smoking is used. Isn't vaping is less harmful than smoking cigarettes.

Lack of a perfect solution shouldn't get in the way of a good solution.

[Bateshorn 9905]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 

Lack of a perfect solution shouldn't get in the way of a good solution.

Someone needs to let the Democratic Party in on this bit of wisdom. 

[High Plains Drifter 10977]

5 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Semantics but I think most people think of cigarettes when the word smoking is used. Isn't vaping is less harmful than smoking cigarettes.

Lack of a perfect solution shouldn't get in the way of a good solution.

jury is still out.

 

But regardless of whether or not its "worse", its still pretty fucking bad for your health.

 

[Guest]

Fuck smoking.  Just don't do it around me.

Fuck "butt throwers" too, who throw that shit out their windows and start grass fires.  This time of the year, there's burnt spots all over on the medians and right of ways.   So needless and inconsiderate.

If you love cigarettes so much, why not keep that burning shit in your car?

Edited December 9, 2021 by slorch

[Bateshorn 9905]

Just now, slorch said:

Fuck smoking.  Just don't do it around me.

Fuck "butt throwers" too, who throw that shit out their windows and start grass fires.  This time of the year, there's burnt spots all over on the medians and right of ways.   So needless and inconsiderate.

Also, butts are not biodegradable.  Your still littering if you toss it.  It’s not an apple core.