New Zealand outlaws smoking for those born after 2008

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Wonder if that's for cigars as well ?  I mean you don't inhale 'em unless you're an idiot, but I can see smokers picking up cigar smoking suddenly.

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

this is just big vape trying to get an advantage over big tobacco 

[atomheartbevo 89448]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Agree but this is a novel approach. I can't imagine many adult smokers would say that it's a good idea that the kids of today should be the smokers of tomorrow. Perhaps even today's adult smokers might go for this type of ban as it doesn't apply to them. Or at least they may not fight it.

It would be a weird hill to die on to protect pre-teens' right to smoke in the future.

For any one that opposes laws like this in terms of freedom of choice, go visit a pulmonologist's waiting room to see all of the Medicare recipients on oxygen. Our tax dollars are subsidizing their freedom to smoke.

I'm slightly torn, because I think up to a point people should be able to fuck up their bodies as long as they don't harm anybody else.  But I also know that for decades the tobacco companies added all kinds of shit to make cigarettes more addictive, etc., and they did it with the government signing off on it (at the time).

And the American taxpayer ultimately pays for addictions that result, in the form of expensive medical care, as well as any agricultural subsidies or exemptions/tax breaks/etc. (tobacco is considered an agricultural commodity).

Imagine if alcohol beverage companies put the amount of addictive chemicals in their beverages that the tobacco companies did.

 

[hayden_horn 11360]

34 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Semantics but I think most people think of cigarettes when the word smoking is used. Isn't vaping is less harmful than smoking cigarettes.

Lack of a perfect solution shouldn't get in the way of a good solution.

we publish quarterly reports. my boss has a saying. 

don't let perfection get in the way of progress.

i think it's pretty good.

[Guest Lobo]

17 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

this is just big vape trying to get an advantage over big tobacco 

quit talking about South Austin's Mom.

Oh, Big Vape.  Thought you typed Big Vage. 

[Bateshorn 9905]

20 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Wonder if that's for cigars as well ?  I mean you don't inhale 'em unless you're an idiot, but I can see smokers picking up cigar smoking suddenly.

 

Mouth cancer, bro.  You ever seen somebody who has had part of their jaw and tongue removed?

Also, back in the day, I’ve smoked everything from a Swisher Sweet to a Montecristo #2.  They all taste like a bum took an ashy shit in your mouth the next morning.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

34 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Mouth cancer, bro.  You ever seen somebody who has had part of their jaw and tongue removed?

Also, back in the day, I’ve smoked everything from a Swisher Sweet to a Montecristo #2.  They all taste like a bum took an ashy shit in your mouth the next morning.

Yeah I’m aware, but moderation is your friend with cigars.

[ztejas 43266]

4 hours ago, Lobo said:

Nicotine by itself isn't all that bad for you

Nicotine is extremely bad for you. And it's debatable how much healthier the delivery mechanism of vaping even is. 

[Nolacycling 893]

Nicotine sucks, posted from a caffeine factory.

[burntorangebongos 10681]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Isn't vaping is less harmful than smoking cigarettes.

Lack of a perfect solution shouldn't get in the way of a good solution.

 They use real fruity, sweet flavors that appeals to younger people and deliver just as much  niccotine. All it does is attract a group that wouldn't use it if it didn't taste so good.

Plus, things have been said about the oil used for vaping as not being good for the lungs. This just sounds like politicians who invested in vaping companies thinning out the competition. 

If they really don't want tobacco use for youths, they need to not let vaping companies make sweet shit that attracts kids and make them be apart of this too, otherwise the horse has left the barn and this is all feel good bullshit.

[Bevo in VA 342]

Saw in another article that a pack of cigarettes in NZ will run you over $20.  Pack-a-day smoker would have to shell out almost 8 grand a year for that, and yet they say that 10% of their population still smokes.

[TwiceHorn 31283]

10 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

 They use real fruity, sweet flavors that appeals to younger people and deliver just as much  niccotine. All it does is attract a group that wouldn't use it if it didn't taste so good.

Plus, things have been said about the oil used for vaping as not being good for the lungs. This just sounds like politicians who invested in vaping companies thinning out the competition. 

If they really don't want tobacco use for youths, they need to not let vaping companies make sweet shit that attracts kids and make them be apart of this too, otherwise the horse has left the barn and this is all feel good bullshit.

The delivery vehicle for vape is propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin, both of which decompose mostly into water when heated.  Then there's the flavoring, that adds some chemical elements to the mix.

There were some hysterical studies claiming that vape did exactly what burning tobacco did, but that was the nicotine, alone.

It is conceivable that vaping does some harm beyond the delivery of nicotine, but the sheer reduction in known and potential carcinogens and just nasty shit that results from burning organic matter in the form of tobacco and inhaling the smoke is HUGE.

The real problems identified with vaping were related to vaping THC compositions that used actual oil to suspend the THC components.  As one can imagine, inhaling oil vapors is as bad or worse than inhaling smoke from burning organic matter.

I think you are dead right that a lot of the hysteria against vaping is driven by big tobacco, who also stands to become big vape.

[WBT 20422]

We should bring back prohibition

[ztejas 43266]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The delivery vehicle for vape is propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin, both of which decompose mostly into water when heated.  Then there's the flavoring, that adds some chemical elements to the mix.

There were some hysterical studies claiming that vape did exactly what burning tobacco did, but that was the nicotine, alone.

It is conceivable that vaping does some harm beyond the delivery of nicotine, but the sheer reduction in known and potential carcinogens and just nasty shit that results from burning organic matter in the form of tobacco and inhaling the smoke is HUGE.

The real problems identified with vaping were related to vaping THC compositions that used actual oil to suspend the THC components.  As one can imagine, inhaling oil vapors is as bad or worse than inhaling smoke from burning organic matter.

I think you are dead right that a lot of the hysteria against vaping is driven by big tobacco, who also stands to become big vape.

I don't disagree that it's highly unlikely that vaping is as bad as smoking but I'd consider that it is much easier to get an equal amount of nicotine through vaping than smoking. And I think for so long the main issue was smoking that it has been difficult to isolate the effects of nictoine from the combined effects of nicotine and cigarette smoke. It seems like more studies are coming out that suggest that the delivery of nicotine in itself is pretty problematic at high doses - which are more easily achievable with vaping. I know when I was vaping a bunch I had a couple pretty acute side effects that I had to assume were pretty much directly attributable to the nicotine consumption (which I think was close to pack a day levels for maybe a year).

[Tom 2959]

I'm thankful for vaping in a personal selfish sense.  I'm sure vaping is harmful too and may have bad side effects we don't even know about yet, but switching from smoking to vaping saved my dad's life.  His O2 levels were low enough to the point that it would wake him up in the night and he was getting close to needing an oxygen tank.  He switched from smoking to vaping and his oxygen levels returned to the normal range within the first year.  

I mean, yeah, he should have just quit smoking a long time ago, but he'd been addicted for 50+ years.  I don't think that quitting was ever in the cards for him.  He's absolutely better off vaping though.

Agreed though that it's probably not a bad idea to try to discourage youth vaping along with smoking, though. 

[elfenix 34171]

i'm just glad the guy vaping in the office only lasted 2 weeks. 

[workswithseed 2037]

19 minutes ago, WBT said:

We should bring back prohibition

This board would be for it, apparently. Although I get the sentiment. Fuck cigarettes.

[burntorangebongos 10681]

Ridiculous conclusion. We are discussing what New Zealand is up to and I think their not including vaping shows their intent is likely disingenuous. Especially since they are taking their policy down this road.  It is leaving a big gaping hole for tobacco to continue selling and addicting their youth. It's piss.

Edited December 9, 2021 by burntorangebongos

[Neonmoon 38127]

4 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

me too.

fucking hell, i love smoking.

i've been only smoking while traveling for years, and since traveling stopped for covid, i've been smoke free.

but damn, i miss it. won't do it around my kids, but there's something about it that i love.

I've been smoke free for years. I fully admit it's a disgusting gross terrible habit. 

That being said. There is nothing better than lighting up a cigarette after a few drinks. If there was a scenario where the wife had passed, and I'm old, then who gives a fuck. I don't want to live past my 70s anyway. 

 

[Guest Lobo]

1 hour ago, workswithseed said:

This board would be for it, apparently. Although I get the sentiment. Fuck cigarettes.

You clearly haven't spent much time with these folks in real life (buncha raging drunks).  one third wants to limit what people can do to their bodies, one third wants to prohibit you from thinking badly about what people are doing to their bodies, and the other third of us (myself included) want what we do to our bodies to be none of your business and if you bring up what you're doing to your body (drinking, smoking, abortion, veganism, or cross-fit), we get to slap you and walk away.  Unless you're buying the next round, in which case---i can probably stand another long-winded story about cross-fit.  You heard one, you heard 'em all.  

Also, as some of you have stated, if I make it past 75.  I'm taking up either a tobacco pipe or Dunhills.  I get a hankering for a decent cigar about twice a year as well and usually indulge.  But yeah, the morning after taste, no matter the quality of the smoke is just rancid.  I'm picky as shit about my bourbon, but you can give me a $3 or a $300 cigar and I will have no fucking clue the difference because no matter what, it makes my tongue feel like they used it to clean out the airplane ice machine. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Lobo

[Biff Tannen 45497]

5 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Nicotine is poison. Take enough of it and it can kill you. Regular smoking won’t do it. But a concentrated dose can be lethal.

I can tell you this from experience: Do not, I repeat DO NOT smoke cigarettes while you’re wearing the nicotine patch. I thought I was having a heart attack. My heartbeat went haywire.

Try smoking and dipping at the same time.  It's a scene man.

[Guest Lobo]

Oh, it's a scene. 

Is it anything like hitting a homer in softball?  

Edited December 9, 2021 by Lobo

[F250 28691]

6 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

I had a guy yesterday come into my office wheezing up a storm joking that he needed to quit smoking (early 60s, overweight). He then proceeded to tell me that he just received his flu vaccine after he made the doctor promise him that it wouldn't change his DNA. He still refuses to get a COVID vaccine, but is cool with that sweet sweet Joe Camel doing his thing.

This is a common mode of thinking and isn't unique to someone paranoid about the vaccine. Most people fear the unlikely while committing spoonicide. People worry about all kinds of frivolous shit while they dismantle their own health.

 

[ztejas 43266]

1 hour ago, burntorangebongos said:

Ridiculous conclusion. We are discussing what New Zealand is up to and I think their not including vaping shows their intent is likely disingenuous. Especially since they are taking their policy down this road.  It is leaving a big gaping hole for tobacco to continue selling and addicting their youth. It's piss.

It's also providing an opening for an illegal market for cigarettes. I believe NZ like Australia taxes the shit out of smokes so they are going to lose what I'd assume is fairly substantial tax revenue to illegal operators.

Granted the offset in public health costs probably wins that battle.

[RomaVicta 29793]

9 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

Interesting idea. By keeping it legal for those born prior to that age, it makes it hard for someone to lobby that future generations need to smoke since their smoking rights aren't affected.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/09/new-zealand-to-ban-smoking-for-next-generation-in-bid-to-outlaw-habit-by-2025

 

New Zealand has announced it will outlaw smoking for the next generation, so that those who are aged 14 and under today will never be legally able to buy tobacco.

New legislation means the legal smoking age will increase every year, to create a smoke-free generation of New Zealanders, associate health minister Dr Ayesha Verrall said on Thursday.

“This is a historic day for the health of our people,” she said.

The government announced the rising age alongside other measures to make smoking unaffordable and inaccessible, to try to reach its goal of making the country entirely smoke-free within the next four years. Other measures include reducing the legal amount of nicotine in tobacco products to very low levels, cutting down the shops where cigarettes could legally be sold, and increasing funding to addiction services. The new laws will not restrict vape sales.

“We want to make sure young people never start smoking so we will make it an offence to sell or supply smoked tobacco products to new cohorts of youth. People aged 14 when the law comes into effect will never be able to legally purchase tobacco,” Verrall said.

New Zealand’s daily smoking rates have been dropping over time – down to 11.6% in 2018, from 18% a decade earlier. But smoking rates for Māori and Pacifika were far higher – 29% for Māori and 18% for Pasifika. “If nothing changes, it would be decades till Māori smoking rates fall below 5%,” Verrall said. She said eradicating smoking in the next four years was within reach: “I believe it is. In fact, we’re on track to for the New Zealand European population. The issue is, though, if we don’t change what we’re doing, we won’t make it for Maori – and that’s [what] the plan is really focused on”.

The policies were welcomed by public health experts on Thursday. “New Zealand once again leads the world – this time with a cutting-edge smokefree 2025 implementation plan – it’s truly a game changer,” said Dr Natalie Walker, director of the Centre for Addiction Research at University of Auckland. The reduction of nicotine in cigarettes was a world first, said public health prof Chris Bullen. From a health perspective, “all my wishes have come true”, he said.

Smoking has already been widely replaced by vaping among teenage New Zealanders, and is also attracting many young people who would never have taken up smoking – according to surveying of 19,000 high school students this year, nearly 20% were vaping daily or several times a day, the majority with high nicotine doses. That’s compared to 3% of those aged 15-17 who smoked daily in 2018, or 13% who smoked a decade earlier.

The plan has come under criticism from some parties – the Act party has argued that reducing the nicotine in products will hit lower-income people hardest, who will have to buy more cigarettes and smoke more to access the same dose. Verrall said the very low levels required by the laws had been researched and proven to help people quit.

Concerns have also been raised about a growing black market for tobacco. The government acknowledged this risk in initial proposals: “Evidence indicates that the amount of tobacco products being smuggled into New Zealand has increased substantially in recent years and organised criminal groups are involved in large-scale smuggling,” it said.

Initial plans for a smoke free generation of New Zealanders have now been finalised after public consultation. They were first floated in April. They will still need to pass through the legislative process, but should not face any obstacles – Smokefree 2025 is a headline Labour policy, and the party holds a majority in New Zealand parliament. Verrall said the legislation would be introduced in 2022, with the age limits coming in in 2023.

What a backward democracy. Don't they even have powerful lobbies running amok over the interests of the people? I see why we're the envy of the world. 

[WhatTheBuck 28713]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

Try smoking and dipping at the same time.  It's a scene man.

I could never dip. That shit’s disgusting. And this from a guy who at one time could hack up a loogie that looked like escargot. 

[burntorangebongos 10681]

Sounds like I could make some serious cash selling a box of smokes in NZ. Niiiice.

My pop used to use me as the distraction when he smuggled his smokes across the border. I was the cute little kid waving at the man asking what we were bringing across while sitting in front of his 2 boxes of smokes. Haha, and that was for just to save the few pennies in tax. I think I have it in me to move into the big time!

[Biff Tannen 45497]

34 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

What a backward democracy. Don't they even have powerful lobbies running amok over the interests of the people? I see why we're the envy of the world. 

Yeah we are way more free to shoot each other here.  And we can smoke while doing it! Freedom baby. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

6 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

I have never smoked a cigarette in my life. 

I once broke up with a girl because she wouldn't stop smoking.

I did get back with her a week later because she was a freaking blowjob machine, and getting your dick sucked every time you're in a car with her or whenever you go into a clothing store dressing room offsets a lot, including the disgusting habit of smoking. 

Personally I think me and my dick could handle that since I’m pretty sure it can’t smell cigarettes.

[bschoolprof 6232]

For those that think this is a good idea, should smoking pot (or buying pot to smoke) be legal?

[burntorangebongos 10681]

There are a lot of studies going back decades that proves that tobacco is bad for your health. I don't think pot has the same amount of studies that prove it is bad for your health. From an economic and cultural perspective pot should be legal.

[Bateshorn 9905]

4 hours ago, Lobo said:

You clearly haven't spent much time with these folks in real life (buncha raging drunks).  one third wants to limit what people can do to their bodies, one third wants to prohibit you from thinking badly about what people are doing to their bodies, and the other third of us (myself included) want what we do to our bodies to be none of your business and if you bring up what you're doing to your body (drinking, smoking, abortion, veganism, or cross-fit), we get to slap you and walk away.  Unless you're buying the next round, in which case---i can probably stand another long-winded story about cross-fit.  You heard one, you heard 'em all.  

Also, as some of you have stated, if I make it past 75.  I'm taking up either a tobacco pipe or Dunhills.  I get a hankering for a decent cigar about twice a year as well and usually indulge.  But yeah, the morning after taste, no matter the quality of the smoke is just rancid.  I'm picky as shit about my bourbon, but you can give me a $3 or a $300 cigar and I will have no fucking clue the difference because no matter what, it makes my tongue feel like they used it to clean out the airplane ice machine. 

So this is the prefect example, and I’m not picking on @Loboin a pejorative way of how we end of idealizing individual freedom without considering societal cost.  Smoking has a huge societal cost because most peoples health problems tend to show up after they are on Medicare. Which means literally everyone with an above board job is paying for it. It’s among the top killers and health problems in society.  
 

The best clean analogy I can come up with is drinking and driving, everybody hates that shit. It destroys families. Well smoking costs our collective society billions and billions of dollars, and we are all like: personal responsibility, man!

And I say all of this as a former smoker and current heavy drinker.

 

[Pig Bellmont 8692]

7 hours ago, Lobo said:

quit talking about South Austin's Mom.

Oh, Big Vape.  Thought you typed Big Vage. 

I thought Big Gape

[ztejas 43266]

6 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

So this is the prefect example, and I’m not picking on @Loboin a pejorative way of how we end of idealizing individual freedom without considering societal cost.  Smoking has a huge societal cost because most peoples health problems tend to show up after they are on Medicare. Which means literally everyone with an above board job is paying for it. It’s among the top killers and health problems in society.  
 

The best clean analogy I can come up with is drinking and driving, everybody hates that shit. It destroys families. Well smoking costs our collective society billions and billions of dollars, and we are all like: personal responsibility, man!

And I say all of this as a former smoker and current heavy drinker.

 

Okay but there are countries with heavier tobacco use (and/or alcohol use) that have better and more affordable healthcare than the US. Saying people shouldn't smoke because it puts a strain on our disgustingly incompetent healthcare infrastructure isn't really getting to the root of the issue. You can say that about a lot of things. People are always going to do shit that's bad for them - that doesn't mean they shouldn't have access to reasonable healthcare when they need it. 

Drinking and driving is pretty different because it winds up killing otherwise healthy individuals. Sure secondhand smoke is a thing but it's much less of a thing than it used to be. Smoking a cigarette in public isn't going to t-bone and fatally injure a 17 year old.

[Bateshorn 9905]

11 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Okay but there are countries with heavier tobacco use (and/or alcohol use) that have better and more affordable healthcare than the US. Saying people shouldn't smoke because it puts a strain on our disgustingly incompetent healthcare infrastructure isn't really getting to the root of the issue. You can say that about a lot of things. People are always going to do shit that's bad for them - that doesn't mean they shouldn't have access to reasonable healthcare when they need it. 

Drinking and driving is pretty different because it winds up killing otherwise healthy individuals. Sure secondhand smoke is a thing but it's much less of a thing than it used to be. Smoking a cigarette in public isn't going to t-bone and fatally injure a 17 year old.

I guess my point is; Tobacco is a largely controllable health care cost. We’ve just chosen not to, and unlike meat or booze, it impacts a fairly small niche of the economy. That’s why what NZ is doing is actually reasonable (putting aside the vaping); make it truly absurdly expensive, and then ban it for future generations. 
 

Will people grow their own tobacco and smoke it, sure. But people are also always going to huff paint, eat tide pods, or jump off of 3 story buildings on to folding tables. People are stupid. That doesn’t mean the government should license a product that costs more in societal costs than sin taxes collected. 

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

19 hours ago, workswithseed said:

This board would be for it, apparently. Although I get the sentiment. Fuck cigarettes.

I get that you're not too bright, but you should really try to do a better job of reading the threads you post in.  While there may be a few posters expressing support for the idea, most of the posters here are discussing it as a concept without supporting it.  Most of the so-called Surly liberal cabal you like to denigrate generally take the approach of do what you want with your body until it hurts someone else, then you have to stop.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

13 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

So this is the prefect example, and I’m not picking on @Loboin a pejorative way of how we end of idealizing individual freedom without considering societal cost.  Smoking has a huge societal cost because most peoples health problems tend to show up after they are on Medicare. Which means literally everyone with an above board job is paying for it. It’s among the top killers and health problems in society.  
 

The best clean analogy I can come up with is drinking and driving, everybody hates that shit. It destroys families. Well smoking costs our collective society billions and billions of dollars, and we are all like: personal responsibility, man!

And I say all of this as a former smoker and current heavy drinker.

 

Very true about the late in life health affects of smoking.  Smoking is a nasty habit, yet I do smoke about a dozen cigars a year, and smoke weed (1-3 small hits each session) at least a couple days a week.

[Incredulity 11555]

Black markets, how do they work?

[Johnny Sack 8397]

I hate cigarettes and smoking.  But if an adult wants to poison themselves, it's not my business.  Just don't blow that shit on me or smoke inside.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

6 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I hate cigarettes and smoking.  But if an adult wants to poison themselves, it's not my business.  Just don't blow that shit on me or smoke inside.

Are you cool with paying their medical bills because they choose to smoke ?  (He said a wee bit hypocritically). 

[workswithseed 2037]

39 minutes ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

I get that you're not too bright, but you should really try to do a better job of reading the threads you post in.  While there may be a few posters expressing support for the idea, most of the posters here are discussing it as a concept without supporting it.  Most of the so-called Surly liberal cabal you like to denigrate generally take the approach of do what you want with your body until it hurts someone else, then you have to stop.  

I get that you're not all that bright. That's it, fuck you. I'm not reading past that sentence.

Edited December 10, 2021 by workswithseed

[Incredulity 11555]

4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Are you cool with paying their medical bills because they choose to smoke ?  (He said a wee bit hypocritically). 

No,  but where do you stop?  sugary drinks, bacon, sex, base jumping, playing sports, ....

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

20 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

No,  but where do you stop?  sugary drinks, bacon, sex, base jumping, playing sports, ....

Slippery slope theory, yeah, not sure, but it's a valid question.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

29 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Are you cool with paying their medical bills because they choose to smoke ?  (He said a wee bit hypocritically). 

I think people generally should pay for their own services directly to the provider.

But in our system that is not the case.  I have seen studies that smokers actually save the country money when you factor in tobacco tax collections and savings in medicare/social security due to the fact that they die about ten years earlier than nonsmokers.

[smuggs 9342]

38 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I hate cigarettes and smoking. 

Liar.

 

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

2 hours ago, workswithseed said:

I get that you're not all that bright. That's it, fuck you. I'm not reading past that sentence.

Not reading past the first sentence of a post seems to be a common thing for you.  Maybe that's the problem.  

[Guest Lobo]

I can’t post images.  But I picture every kiwi teenager the night before the law goes into effect looking like Kramer when he held that smoking party for people kicked out of restaurants.

”you’ve experienced a lifetime of smoking in 72 hours.   Your face looks like a catcher’s mitt!”

[workswithseed 2037]

5 hours ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

Not reading past the first sentence of a post seems to be a common thing for you.  Maybe that's the problem.  

 When you start off like a douche, which seems to be the only thing you seem to be good at. I don't have to read your shitty takes, and usually don't. Maybe that's the problem. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by workswithseed

[Fudge Nuggets 19151]

On 12/9/2021 at 9:57 AM, Neonmoon said:

If I make it to 70 years old, I'm going to say fuck it, and start smoking again. 

I’ve got a long list of horrible shit I’m going to put in my body once I hit don’t give a fuck years old.  Looking forward to trying meth.

[Guest Lobo]

I think by the time I hit 80, they'll be a whole new swatch of drugs.  But I would try meth if it's still around then, but serious question---does it damage false teeth/dentures like it does real teeth?  Would you have to take them out before smoking it?  Asking for a friend.