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when does the United States crumble? will it happen in our lifetimes?

shadow_operative

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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just a pretty straightforward question. every great society that's ever existed has eventually crumbled- the romans, the mongols, the ming dynasty, etc. you think the romans were walking around going, "yeah, all of this shit right here is gonna crumble one day. hell, even our language will become extinct!" of course not. and yet i think that probably damn near everyone in America never takes time to consider that all of this shit could/will come crashing down one day.

here's my follow up question- what do you think will ultimately lead to the downfall of the US, and when will it happen? i ask because this is not my field of expertise, and i'm looking for some informed opinions. my best guess is this:

we already have a ton of civil unrest; we already have a nation where essentially no one can afford to pay for a college education, where the middle class is living paycheck to paycheck, where people are struggling more than they are thriving; a nation where sick people have to jump through hoops and pay insane amounts of money for life saving medications and medical care; i've never seen our nation as divided as it is today, with republicans essentially declaring war on democrats, no matter how badly it hurts our nation (no CR, just relevant facts, please do not focus on this one statement and derail the thread, im simply describing a very relevant reason for civil unrest)- bottom line, there's a whole lot to be upset about.

then comes climate change- basically 80% (more?) of the world's major cities are port cities, and if/when the rising ocean levels start to have a severe affect on these cities and our national/global economy, i could totally see things spiraling out of control, leaving the US vulnerable to all types of hellish events, from foot shortages, to an economic crisis, to even seeing a land war take place on US soil. that's my fear. that if/when these major port cities of the world get hit too hard with climate change, that we could see a domino effect which could cripple the US in a way that most people can't fathom.

but again, that's why i've come here. i'm simply looking for some more educated opinions on this subject, and interested to hear other people's thoughts. 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Dude, we're the greatest country in the history of the world.  Just like the dozens of greats that came before us.  We can't crumble.  Do you even "logic", bro?  

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mchookem

mchookem 16337

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not in our lifetimes  but def during the Gen Zers.

sadly (or not) my experience knowing/talking to many young people nowadays, they all seem pretty resigned and are ready for it.

actually, they aren't just resigned to the fall if the US but of humanity as a whole. not much optimism for the future in that age group. and who can blame them? 

from a couple of discussions over thanksgiving break, the general consensus seems to be that capitalism is accelerating resource depletion and increasing competition, but once the resources are gone the playing field will be leveled by the natural world. once that happens, who knows what societies will arise from that world. 

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38129

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The Ming Dynasty fell, yes, but it was was followed by the Qing Dynasty. Both are Chinese. The Chinese have 3500 years of history. So depends on what you mean by the US crumbling. Do you mean it’s breaks up? Geographically? Or Democracy ends? No one is conquering the US from the outside. Could a dictator take over? Yes. Could a revolution happen? Yes. 

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formermav43

formermav43 4606

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10 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

The Ming Dynasty fell, yes, but it was was followed by the Qing Dynasty. Both are Chinese. The Chinese have 3500 years of history. So depends on what you mean by the US crumbling. Do you mean it’s breaks up? Geographically? Or Democracy ends? No one is conquering the US from the outside. Could a dictator take over? Yes. Could a revolution happen? Yes. 

I was thinking this same thing. In fact, if you start studying the late Roman Empire, there's a sense in which even it didn't fall so much as become decentralized. Its language, institutions, even infrastructure endured, in many ways down to the present.

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Guest

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Despite the best efforts of many, America still stands strong.

If you think we're not, well a shit ton of folks sure are trying to become Americans.

When that stops, you might have a point. For most of the self-loathing, those folks are just expressing their guilt complex. WGAF?

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38129

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Nations erode, they don’t crumble. It only looks like they crumble after a couple hundred years go by and historians look back and say this nation fell in 1644. In reality, hundreds of things attack the foundation over a long period of time until the crumble is complete. Things like…the poor are treated like shit. There’s not enough food, housing, or protection. The nation stretched itself too thin. They spent too much. Minorities are treated like shit. The military is power hungry. There is a dictator. There is a crazy dictator. Rules are not followed or enforced. Information is restricted. Education is restricted. Propaganda is allowed. Disease. No jobs. Famine. Natural Events. (A nation can crumble if conquered by force)
 


 

 

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Hate

Hate 20117

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Jesus Christ. Of course the Gen Z’ers don’t have much hope. They have to listen to all of the goddamn ledge sitters like the ones on Surly. There has never been a better age to be alive than the one in which we currently live. Stop being a bunch of fucking Debbie downers and enjoy it.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89735

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Just now, Hate said:

There has never been a better age to be alive than the one in which we currently live.

You have a point. 

Never before in human history have we had a small device that fits in our pockets and can be taken into the bathroom undetected, and can access tens of millions of pornographic pictures and videos.

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2112

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5 minutes ago, Hate said:

Jesus Christ. Of course the Gen Z’ers don’t have much hope. They have to listen to all of the goddamn ledge sitters like the ones on Surly. There has never been a better age to be alive than the one in which we currently live. Stop being a bunch of fucking Debbie downers and enjoy it.

I think Twitter was a big mistake. Something would have taken over for Twitter, but it's still just a bunch of not happy people bitching about shit.

8 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

You have a point. 

Never before in human history have we had a small device that fits in our pockets and can be taken into the bathroom undetected, and can access tens of millions of pornographic pictures and videos.

I don't think porn makes people happy, but other people with meaningful relationships.

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Harrison Bergeron

Harrison Bergeron 1798

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45 minutes ago, Hate said:

Jesus Christ. Of course the Gen Z’ers don’t have much hope. They have to listen to all of the goddamn ledge sitters like the ones on Surly. There has never been a better age to be alive than the one in which we currently live. Stop being a bunch of fucking Debbie downers and enjoy it.

This 1000%. Our idea of "have nots" is hilarious not only compared to the rest of the world but compared to history. The poorest Americans are still global 1%ers. But you're right, we're addicted to whining because we do not have any real, existential threats. That does not mean there will not be some sort of economic collapse if we keep blowing out our deficits and other terrible governmental policies. I do not see a collapse as much as there could be some self-induced fundamental shifts that continues us on the road to Idiocracy, where half the population gets a UBI check and watches Instagram and plays video games all day. I do not think a revolution is really possible - the gap between the U.S. military's capabilities and a revolutionary force is just too great. That doesn't mean we don't ultimately lose a war to China someday.

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Don Johnson

Don Johnson 4754

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15 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

This 1000%. Our idea of "have nots" is hilarious not only compared to the rest of the world but compared to history. The poorest Americans are still global 1%ers. But you're right, we're addicted to whining because we do not have any real, existential threats. That does not mean there will not be some sort of economic collapse if we keep blowing out our deficits and other terrible governmental policies. I do not see a collapse as much as there could be some self-induced fundamental shifts that continues us on the road to Idiocracy, where half the population gets a UBI check and watches Instagram and plays video games all day. I do not think a revolution is really possible - the gap between the U.S. military's capabilities and a revolutionary force is just too great. That doesn't mean we don't ultimately lose a war to China someday.

This. Things are so good that many people have no purpose in life. No important cause that needs to consume them.  So they desperately search for their generation’s revolution, civil war, civil rights battle, etc. 

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52-80

52-80 19185

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3 hours ago, Hate said:

Jesus Christ. Of course the Gen Z’ers don’t have much hope. They have to listen to all of the goddamn ledge sitters like the ones on Surly. There has never been a better age to be alive than the one in which we currently live. Stop being a bunch of fucking Debbie downers and enjoy it.

It takes a lot to topple a nation.
 

Warts and all - stupid fucking politicians, stupid fucking constituents, greed and inequality, detroit san francisco and bryan/college station - america is still america. And its gonna reign for a long fucking time. 

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52-80

52-80 19185

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6 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

We're living in the best period of American history. Right now is the best time to crank out some children. I don't understand the doom and gloom.

Toxic cocktail of defeatism and victim complex. Everythings fuck and its everyone elses fault. 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89735

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2 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

This. Things are so good that many people have no purpose in life. No important cause that needs to consume them.  So they desperately search for their generation’s revolution, civil war, civil rights battle, etc. 

Or they search for batshit conspiracy theories on SEC and aggy-related forums that they can use to annoy the fuck out of their relatives.

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89735

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5 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

You know a country has got it good when kids coming from actual war-ravaged places hear that the most pressing issue in their new school is that the mathematics curriculum is deemed too racist 

As long as our rich people don't start trying to move to other countries or worse, try to pool their resources and go into space or something.

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52-80

52-80 19185

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2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

As long as our rich people don't start trying to move to other countries or worse, try to pool their resources and go into space or something.

America mints more immigrant millionaires (im looking at you, indians in silicon valley) than anywhere else in the world, so the wealth and opportunities is still plentiful. 
 

If a few greedy bastards want to shelter their tax in small islands so be it but youre not seeing them repatriate or expatriate to germany, sweden, france, or wherever idealists think is this foreign utopia

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