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ESPN: Who is the best HS QB to ever come out of Texas?

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 28232

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, hobbes2702 said:

VYs accomplishments especially for an inner city school are truly amazing. No doubt. But he never won state and never went undefeated and that has to matter. 
And it’s easy to say anyone could step into Kyler’s situation and do that. My question would be why that hasn’t happened then?

This is ridiculous. Put VY on a team like Murray’s (or Brees’, Gilbert’s, Sam’s, BM’s you get the idea) and he’d own every record there is. That poll is just recency bias and over-weighting wins

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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2 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

He won three straight top division state titles. No one else can even come close to competing with that.

And honestly Garrett Gilbert might be number 2 on that list. State records for yards, no losses his junior or senior years, back to back state titles.

reminder that LT's 35 game playoff winning streak was snapped when Baker Mayfield lost to one of the weakest Pflugerville teams to ever make the playoffs. in the first round no less. 

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21346

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8 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

This is ridiculous. Put VY on a team like Murray’s (or Brees’, Gilbert’s, Sam’s, BM’s you get the idea) and he’d own every record there is. That poll is just recency bias and over-weighting wins

The midget in hs was as dominant as you could get.  Watch the videos of him toying with people.  Size matters even less in hs.  There's film.  It's hard to argue with the little man.  Again, that's hs only.  

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Helobious

Helobious 9823

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1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Did Murray have a better high school career than jerrod heard?

Murray had over 3,000 more total career yards, 52 more total career TDs, and one more state title than Heard. All while playing in a higher classification than Heard and going 42-0 as a starter. So yes.

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 28232

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Just now, ChiTownDoc said:

The midget in hs was as dominant as you could get.  Watch the videos of him toying with people.  Size matters even less in hs.  There's film.  It's hard to argue with the little man.  Again, that's hs only.  

Have you seen any HS film on VY? He was unreal. He had 400 yards passing and another 100 on the ground vs Westlake in the semis. Madison scored 42. I guess VY should have played both ways

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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there's two arguments being made here, and i feel like both arguments are correct.

1: When it comes to the most accomplished Texas HS QB with the best career, it's Murray. This is true.

2:Vince Young is the actual best QB to ever play HS football in Texas, possibly anywhere. I personally believe that this is also true. to be 6'5", over 200 lbs, to be the best athlete on the field, to run like a gazelle while throwing the most beautiful deep ball anyone has ever seen...man. VY was truly something else. there's has never ever ever been another VY, at any level of football. nobody who's ever played the QB position at his size has ever had the speed, open field moves, and natural running ability that VY had. hell, only a handful of guys of any size have had his running ability, and all of them were half a foot shorter and 50 lbs lighter than VY. he became a very good passer, but having his speed and agility at his size is what takes him over the top. 

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13492

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35 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

there's two arguments being made here, and i feel like both arguments are correct.

1: When it comes to the most accomplished Texas HS QB with the best career, it's Murray. This is true.

2:Vince Young is the actual best QB to ever play HS football in Texas, possibly anywhere. I personally believe that this is also true. to be 6'5", over 200 lbs, to be the best athlete on the field, to run like a gazelle while throwing the most beautiful deep ball anyone has ever seen...man. VY was truly something else. there's has never ever ever been another VY, at any level of football. nobody who's ever played the QB position at his size has ever had the speed, open field moves, and natural running ability that VY had. hell, only a handful of guys of any size have had his running ability, and all of them were half a foot shorter and 50 lbs lighter than VY. he became a very good passer, but having his speed and agility at his size is what takes him over the top. 

Great post

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21346

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46 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Have you seen any HS film on VY? He was unreal. He had 400 yards passing and another 100 on the ground vs Westlake in the semis. Madison scored 42. I guess VY should have played both ways

I did.  And I saw what was posted here.  VY was unreal.  I’ll vote Murray by a hair.  I don’t think either answer is wrong.  

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Helobious

Helobious 9823

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27 minutes ago, Ignatius said:

Best Mexican QB in UIL history? Lupe Rodruiguez from Mission; not even close….

My dad says Sammy Garza was a lot better than him back then but Harlingen didn’t run the offense to give him stats. My Mt. Rushmore of homie QBs at the high school level is Travis Quintanilla, Lupe, Ryder Hernandez, Marquez Perez, and Sean Salinas. Honorable mention to Sammy Garza & Steven Montez for making NFL rosters. Montez is actually currently on the Lions.

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3 hours ago, slorch said:

So fucking what. Give hima  stat trophy then.

  He overcame virtually nothing.  Most weeks in practice he played against better teams than they faced on Friday/ Saturday.

 

Tell us when Murray was at Allen College:

1996     TH             7-5-0         278-233         Todd Graham
1997     TH             4-7-0         149-266         Todd Graham
1998                      3-7-0         139-215         Todd Graham
1999      R              8-3-0         170-130         Todd Graham
2000     TH             9-3-0         339-218         Todd Graham
2001      C--          10-3-0         340-257         Joe Martin
2002     CO             8-4-0         274-172         Joe Martin
2003      C--          13-2-0         577-342         Joe Martin
2004      R              9-3-0         390-253         Tom Westerberg
2005      R              9-3-0         304-247         Tom Westerberg
2006      C--          13-2-0         510-353         Tom Westerberg
2007      C--          10-1-0         436-299         Tom Westerberg
2008      C--          15-1-0         548-268         Tom Westerberg
2009      C--          10-2-0         490-214         Tom Westerberg
2010      C--          10-2-0         466-270         Tom Westerberg
2011      C--          11-1-0         476-253         Tom Westerberg
2012      C--          15-1-0         702-301         Tom Westerberg
2013      C--          16-0-0         807-298         Tom Westerberg
2014      C--          16-0-0         791-417         Tom Westerberg
2015      C--          14-1-0         710-247         Tom Westerberg
2016      C--          14-1-0         630-245         Terry Gambill
2017      C--          16-0-0         665-253         Terry Gambill
2018      C--          14-1-0         741-272         Terry Gambill
2019      C--          11-1-0         522-258         Terry Gambill
2020      C--          10-1-0         497-298         Terry Gambill
2021    CO/C         11-3-0         605-391         Chad Morris

 

Now tell us when that Young kid was at Madison

1996       C--      10-3-0          402-167         Ray Seals
1997       R--      10-2-0          424-  91         Ray Seals
1998       C--      10-2-0          420-102         Ray Seals
1999      CO         9-3-0          446-269         Ray Seals
2000       C--      10-2-0          580-215         Ray Seals
2001       C--      14-1-0          754-316         Ray Seals
2002       R          7-4-0          295-232         Ray Seals
2003                   1-9-0          155-343         Ray Seals
2004                   6-4-0          305-239         Ray Seals
2005       R          9-2-0          458-176         Ray Seals
2006      TH         6-5-0          268-202         Ray Seals
2007       R          7-5-0          276-239         Ray Seals
2008     TRI         8-3-0          330-214         Ray Seals
2009      TH         6-4-0          226-180         Ray Seals
2010      TH         6-5-0          256-238         Ray Seals
2011       F-         6-5-0          353-261         Pat Reinecke
2012                   4-6-0          220-223         Pat Reinecke
2013       F-         4-7-0          167-392         Pat Reinecke
2014       C          8-3-0          442-177         Pat Reinecke
2015       R          7-4-0          365-228         Pat Reinecke
2016       C          9-2-0          462-162         Pat Reinecke
2017      TH         6-4-0          217-131         Damian Judge
2018                   3-7-0          188-370         Shawn Narcisse
2019                   1-9-0          105-392         Shawn Narcisse
2020                   3-6-0          195-299         Shawn Narcisse

VY carried Madison.  They didn't have 4,000 students and the size and depth Allen High had.  VY took Madison to the semi-finals for the only time in its history, although it got to the quarterfinals a couple times when Broderick Thomas (UNL great) was there.

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1 hour ago, Gut Wagon said:

Just watching them on the field in high school, Murray and Young were freaks from another planet. That much was clear, regardless of who they did or didn't have as teammates or coaches. They stood apart. Could argue Stafford did, too...and even Ewers. 

I almost went to that Madison-North Shore playoff game, but decided not to at the last minute.  Madison won 61-58 in the VY vs. Bobby Reid (played at Oklahoma St. and Baylor) show.

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pyrohornIII

pyrohornIII 4846

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As an honorable mention:

Marty Akins wasn't a slouch coming out of HS.   But then he played at Gregory Portland, which at the time was like 2 students below the break between 3A and 4A.  Most of the schools in that 3A district were much smaller than the G-P behemoth.  In short, not sure if his stats were padded by having lesser competition.  They seldom went very deep in state playoffs.  That could be a south Texas thing, so I figure that really wasn't much his fault.  

Either way, he was a stellar athlete, not only in rushing and passing, but also kicking.   And he lettered in track at UT as well.  

 

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 35598

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9 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

High school it actually is Murray.

College it’s VY.

Pros it’s Drew Brees, or I guess some early NFL guy like Sammy Baugh or Y.A. Tittle, but that was a long ass time ago.

This is currently the correct answer. I do think that Mahomes has a shot to become the best NFL QB that Texas has ever produced, but what he did at Whitehouse and Tech can’t put him in the conversation. 

RGIII does not get enough love for college, or really Murray either. I think VY outshines them but they had amazing college careers. The gap isn’t that big, but it’s there. No one could take over a game like VY. 
 

I also think that this year’s QBs might end up in the conversation down the road. Klubnik is so damn good and is likely going to get two trophies, and will be playing for a great college program. Weigmann has the raw tools. 

 

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1 hour ago, Dutchrudder said:

Is the competition for best College Quarterback from Texas really that weak? It's hard to believe there aren't more with at least one Title win.

Well, the Texas teams that won titles before VY weren’t exactly known for their high-flying QB play.

Someone up thread mentioned Tommy Kramer, but Ty Detmer absolutely belongs in this conversation. For that matter, Koy was a hell of a baller getting a valley team to semis. He was a real Heisman contender until his awful injury.

I have to say, I discount a bit the titles from the divisional and four team playoff era. Getting a Mission team to semis in the 1990 was a seriously big deal, as was winning a unified big school championship. 

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F250

F250 29202

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14 hours ago, Harrison Stafford said:

Tommy Kramer of San Antonio Lee, Rice University, and the Minnesota Vikings.  Haven’t heard of Tommy Kramer, grasshopper?  Google him.

Tommy Kramer didn't lose a football game from 7th to 12th grade until his senior year in the state semifinals. He had a future NFL receiver and another future MLB player as wide receivers and a D1 prospect running the ball. Two other D1 prospects on the defense. That team was loaded. What is interesting is that core group of players had been together since elementary school. That was quite a talent cluster.

My doctor was part of that core and every time I go to the doctor I am told stories about the glory days for about 45 minutes.

My doctor: and that was how we won the state championship in 1971.

Me: Cool story bro, so doc does everything look good with my blood work?

My doctor: So we were playing Alamo Heights in '72 and it was a cold rainy day.

 

lulz

 

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Helobious

Helobious 9823

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5 minutes ago, F250 said:

Tommy Kramer didn't lose a football game from 7th to 12th grade until his senior year in the state semifinals. He had a future NFL receiver and another future MLB player as wide receivers and a D1 prospect running the ball. Two other D1 prospects on the defense. That team was loaded. What is interesting is that core group of players had been together since elementary school. That was quite a talent cluster.

My doctor was part of that core and every time I go to the doctor I am told stories about the glory days for about 45 minutes.

My doctor: and that was how we won the state championship in 1971.

Me: Cool story bro, so doc does everything look good with my blood work?

My doctor: So we were playing Alamo Heights in '72 and it was a cold rainy day.

 

lulz

 

Some serious football in North central SA back in the day. Jefferson passed the torch to Lee who passed the torch to Churchill. 

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Funk Doctor Spock

Funk Doctor Spock 13289

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19 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

if you had VY finishing a distant third, just ahead of garrett gilbert, well then you nailed it kirk bohls.

https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/30484720/is-arizona-cardinals-kyler-murray-best-high-school-qb-texas

 

50E9AFD0-4BBD-4958-AD07-EEFBE62A27D8.jpeg

Only one of these dudes had a perfect ranking coming out of hs and lived up to it. VY all day. He's a one man army Ason  

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13 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

As an honorable mention:

Marty Akins wasn't a slouch coming out of HS.   But then he played at Gregory Portland, which at the time was like 2 students below the break between 3A and 4A.  Most of the schools in that 3A district were much smaller than the G-P behemoth.  In short, not sure if his stats were padded by having lesser competition.  They seldom went very deep in state playoffs.  That could be a south Texas thing, so I figure that really wasn't much his fault.  

Either way, he was a stellar athlete, not only in rushing and passing, but also kicking.   And he lettered in track at UT as well.  

 

For honorable mention, Todd Dodge broke a bunch of passing records at PA Jefferson.

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Thatguy

Thatguy 9395

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20 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

there's two arguments being made here, and i feel like both arguments are correct.

1: When it comes to the most accomplished Texas HS QB with the best career, it's Murray. This is true.

2:Vince Young is the actual best QB to ever play HS football in Texas, possibly anywhere. I personally believe that this is also true. to be 6'5", over 200 lbs, to be the best athlete on the field, to run like a gazelle while throwing the most beautiful deep ball anyone has ever seen...man. VY was truly something else. there's has never ever ever been another VY, at any level of football. nobody who's ever played the QB position at his size has ever had the speed, open field moves, and natural running ability that VY had. hell, only a handful of guys of any size have had his running ability, and all of them were half a foot shorter and 50 lbs lighter than VY. he became a very good passer, but having his speed and agility at his size is what takes him over the top. 

  Outside of Texas Vick might have something to say about that. Inside of Texas there is only one player you could drop on any team and instantly run deep in the state playoffs, and it ain't KM.

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