Any former 400 meter dashers out there?

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

You can do Jiggy-Z's workout, it's respectable and his advice regarding waiting on the interval work is very good advice.

If I were your PT, I'd advise a  Couch to 5k type program even though you have some fitness and in that it is similar to what Jiggy-Z has laid out. I'd also add some caveats:

Make sure you have decent running shoes, injury leads to layoffs. With a deadline the tendency to rush back into prep is common and it really sucks to have a nagging injury. Be patient.

Don't get hung up on distance in the early days, run for time. i.e. run for twenty minutes and don't worry about if that is two miles or three.

Be prepared to repeat a week once in awhile if the running feels uncomfortable. The goal right now is to build a base for 'jogging' not 'running' and w/o injury.

Once you have that base where jogging three miles is not a strain, then you can turn the intensity up a little before the anaerobic work begins. Most of those couch-5k programs are about 6-10 weeks and especially with the slower, longer program still provides time prior to your race to add additional fine tuning for a 400 meter bet.

 

With respect to stretching, my routine was a light stretch prior, then a slow mile or two then more stretching and then to begin training with the workout, followed by a cool down and post run stretch. The post run stretch was usually the more important one for me (distance runner) but IMO, that is something that is really individual.

[Jiggy-Z 3,432]

23 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

You can do Jiggy-Z's workout, it's respectable and his advice regarding waiting on the interval work is very good advice.

If I were your PT, I'd advise a  Couch to 5k type program even though you have some fitness and in that it is similar to what Jiggy-Z has laid out. I'd also add some caveats:

Make sure you have decent running shoes, injury leads to layoffs. With a deadline the tendency to rush back into prep is common and it really sucks to have a nagging injury. Be patient.

Don't get hung up on distance in the early days, run for time. i.e. run for twenty minutes and don't worry about if that is two miles or three.

Be prepared to repeat a week once in awhile if the running feels uncomfortable. The goal right now is to build a base for 'jogging' not 'running' and w/o injury.

Once you have that base where jogging three miles is not a strain, then you can turn the intensity up a little before the anaerobic work begins. Most of those couch-5k programs are about 6-10 weeks and especially with the slower, longer program still provides time prior to your race to add additional fine tuning for a 400 meter bet.

 

With respect to stretching, my routine was a light stretch prior, then a slow mile or two then more stretching and then to begin training with the workout, followed by a cool down and post run stretch. The post run stretch was usually the more important one for me (distance runner) but IMO, that is something that is really individual.

Yeah, I was really bad about stretching afterward.  It always took me a really long time to warm up, too.

This quest of yours reminds me of a Youtube video I saw where this guy in his 20's wanted to train and run a 5:00 minute mile with something like 6-8 weeks of training.  He started off at with a mile time of 7:48, and of course I knew how this video was going to end right then and there.  He ended up at at about 6:40 after his training.

For reference, I did something similar at age 32.  I was running everyday and did a timed mile 5:48.  Probably not my best, but pretty close.  So i decided to train for the mile and as luck would have it, the Congress Avenue Mile was 3 months away.  I ran 6 days a week and 3 of those work outs were on the track and brutal.  I broke 5min about 10 days before the race, but I started a full two minutes faster than this guy and trained twice as long.  i guess we tend to overestimate our abilities and underestimate the difficulties of our chosen quest.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

3 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

Yeah, I was really bad about stretching afterward.  It always took me a really long time to warm up, too.

This quest of yours reminds me of a Youtube video I saw where this guy in his 20's wanted to train and run a 5:00 minute mile with something like 6-8 weeks of training.  He started off at with a mile time of 7:48, and of course I knew how this video was going to end right then and there.  He ended up at at about 6:40 after his training.

For reference, I did something similar at age 32.  I was running everyday and did a timed mile 5:48.  Probably not my best, but pretty close.  So i decided to train for the mile and as luck would have it, the Congress Avenue Mile was 3 months away.  I ran 6 days a week and 3 of those work outs were on the track and brutal.  I broke 5min about 10 days before the race, but I started a full two minutes faster than this guy and trained twice as long.  i guess we tend to overestimate our abilities and underestimate the difficulties of our chosen quest.

The clock is unforgiving.

 

[Jkwellborn 6,704]

You ever see a cheetah stretch before it chases a gazelle?

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

A cheetah has a lifespan of ten to twelve years in the wild. I believe @closetohumping would benefit from a little more elasticity before he begins exerting himself.

[UT_OB1 2,224]

Is there a baseline number yet?  We need to know how fast you can run one now so we can compare your (lack of?) progress every 4-6 weeks

[closetohumping 17,442]

2 hours ago, UT_OB1 said:

Is there a baseline number yet?  We need to know how fast you can run one now so we can compare your (lack of?) progress every 4-6 weeks

Thinking I just get in shape and start training in June.  Three months should do

[Bevo 13,577]

On 12/15/2021 at 10:07 AM, deadshank said:

That was my race  back in the  HS glory days.

Depending on how fat and out of shape you are:

Put your cigarette in an ash can, finish your scotch.

Run 40s on a football field to start. After you get over the soreness and your lungs adjust move to 100s.

Get on the track and run a 100, bounce a 100, run a 100 and bounce a 100. Rinse and repeat all away around the track.

Get on the track and run 200 and then bounce 200 all  the way around the track.

When you get  the stamina, start the 400s.  Keep the same regimen throughout.  Don't just blaze away running 400s to start.  Always start with the 40s, then the running / bouncing 100s and 200s then move to the 400s.

A little extra mileage through longer runs (1 mile +/-) will help stamina for the shorter 400 race which is an underload distance-wise.

When in the turns, over throw your left elbow back and your right hand forward to help turn your body's momentum through and around the turns. 

Run upright with your hips and pelvis pushed forward to get proper posture and expand your lungs. Don't hunch over.  If you're into the wind, lean forward (not hunched over) and down a bit with your head to improve your drag coefficient into the wind.

Try not to brake yourself with your feet.  Learn proper heel contact to the track surface and roll your feet from heel to toe as part of your stride running motion where it is smooth, seamless contact.  Braking is when your heel jars into the surface and causes excess friction and slows you down.

Good luck.

 

 

Assuming he is old, stretch like a mother fucker. If he belongs to a gym, he should take up yoga. Any injury is going to derail training and interest in winning. And before even starting sprint training, just get out there and run so that the body gets use to the impact.

[deadshank 24,653]

1 minute ago, Bevo said:

Assuming he is old, stretch like a mother fucker. If he belongs to a gym, he should take up yoga. Any injury is going to derail training and interest in winning. And before even starting sprint training, just get out there and run so that the body gets use to the impact.

Of course.  Hence my second sentence.  He seems competent enough to not require a warning label on everything he encounters as he plods and staggers along life’s journey. 

[Bevo 13,577]

18 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Of course.  Hence my second sentence.  He seems competent enough to not require a warning label on everything he encounters as he plods and staggers along life’s journey. 

Most people are stupid. Take me for example.

 

We were on vacation in Alaska a few years ago and my high school son wanted to race. It was a cold and rainy morning, the kind that makes old men pull up their covers and go back to sleep. That would have been the best choice. The second best choice would have been to take the loss. The third best choice would have been to make up an excuse. There were a lot of best choices that day. I picked none of them.

[closetohumping 17,442]

2 hours ago, deadshank said:

Of course.  Hence my second sentence.  He seems competent enough to not require a warning label on everything he encounters as he plods and staggers along life’s journey. 

That’s the nicest thing anyone has said to me. 
 

 

yes I need to focus on stretching.  

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

6 hours ago, closetohumping said:

That’s the nicest thing anyone has said to me. 
 

 

yes I need to focus on stretching.  

Here's some more encouragement: you know the old adage about slow and steady wins the race? A more accurate version is slow and steady wins the training which enables you to win the race.

Start out slow, stay steady and even with the training, and then go out and win the race.

[idigTexas 2,289]

Never mind.  Late to the party and someone stole my line, as always.
 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by idigTexas
OU sucks

[Guest]

My grown ass kids asked me today on group call, "Dad could you run a mile?"  I have told them I am starting to use the wife's Pelaton with my diet after Super Bowl, so they were busting my chops a little..

"Yeah.  Once."

Per this thread, no way I could run a competitive quarter.  No fucking way.  I could run a mile though just to do it. It's basically 10 minutes of light/ medium cardo.  Running a quarter against someone is basically the "lion/ bear is after your ass."

Edited January 9, 2022 by slorch

[closetohumping 17,442]

3 hours ago, slorch said:

My grown ass kids asked me today on group call, "Dad could you run a mile?"  I have told them I am starting to use the wife's Pelaton with my diet after Super Bowl, so they were busting my chops a little..

"Yeah.  Once."

Per this thread, no way I could run a competitive quarter.  No fucking way.  I could run a mile though just to do it. It's basically 10 minutes of light/ medium cardo.  Running a quarter against someone is basically the "lion/ bear is after your ass."

[closetohumping 17,442]

4 hours ago, slorch said:

My grown ass kids asked me today on group call, "Dad could you run a mile?"  I have told them I am starting to use the wife's Pelaton with my diet after Super Bowl, so they were busting my chops a little..

"Yeah.  Once."

Per this thread, no way I could run a competitive quarter.  No fucking way.  I could run a mile though just to do it. It's basically 10 minutes of light/ medium cardo.  Running a quarter against someone is basically the "lion/ bear is after your ass."

Honestly second guessing myself.  Should’ve stretched it to a mile.   I’m the much smaller dude. Was thinking the forty but again his long ass legs could’ve made it difficult 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

3 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Honestly second guessing myself.  Should’ve stretched it to a mile.   I’m the much smaller dude. Was thinking the forty but again his long ass legs could’ve made it difficult 

The 400 is preferable to the 40 based on your description of your competition. But when the wager was placed, it was during your group football discussion and regarding a football player messing up in the game, so a 400 is way more appropriate, IMO, than a mile. Not uncommon at the hs level for football players who run track to compete in the 400 and 4x400 relay (and obviously the shorter distances) but the mile much less so. You would have quite the advantage compared with his size and weight were you to race that longer four lap distance around the oval.

You still have the edge, because his weight and age may be problematic. He's right around the height for a 400 meter runner, if a little tall by a couple of inches but we're not talking Rai Benjamin and Fred Kerley musculature and conditioning here. Those fellows at peak shape are still at or around 200 pounds and usually less. (Kerley's frame can carry more muscle which it did when he raced collegiately, but I was surprised at how much leaner he was when he dropped down to the 100/200 for Tokyo. He looked great.)

Without knowing how much this fellow is keeping any ability he has on the down-low, wouldn't want to underestimate and get smoked.

Stay humble, stay focused, and stay healthy.

[closetohumping 17,442]

3 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

The 400 is preferable to the 40 based on your description of your competition. But when the wager was placed, it was during your group football discussion and regarding a football player messing up in the game, so a 400 is way more appropriate, IMO, than a mile. Not uncommon at the hs level for football players who run track to compete in the 400 and 4x400 relay (and obviously the shorter distances) but the mile much less so. You would have quite the advantage compared with his size and weight were you to race that longer four lap distance around the oval.

You still have the edge, because his weight and age may be problematic. He's right around the height for a 400 meter runner, if a little tall by a couple of inches but we're not talking Rai Benjamin and Fred Kerley musculature and conditioning here. Those fellows at peak shape are still at or around 200 pounds and usually less. (Kerley's frame can carry more muscle which it did when he raced collegiately, but I was surprised at how much leaner he was when he dropped down to the 100/200 for Tokyo. He looked great.)

Without knowing how much this fellow is keeping any ability he has on the down-low, wouldn't want to underestimate and get smoked.

Stay humble, stay focused, and stay healthy.

True if a big guy has a chance, it'll likely be in the 40.  Montez Sweat has a faster 40 time than Joe Haden.  Yes I realize I'm not Joe Haden.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

Commit to the 400 if you can get him to do it at that distance. While conditioning is always a positive no matter the distance, the 400 has the greater crash and burn factor than the 40. Even elite athletes go out too fast on occasion and oh, around the 300 meter mark,  just cannot make their legs get the turnover to maintain speed. If this fellow has no sports background, and less conditioning, that will come a lot sooner. I don't know what his pain tolerance is, but there is a point at which that simply does not matter, the body just says "I'm done."

 

[closetohumping 17,442]

Ok guys, trust circle here as you guys have been mostly supportive.   I did the baseline test this morning and I’m pretty disappointed and you guys will be disappointed.  100 seconds.  Now this was an unofficial surface and distance.   The Santa Ana winds were blowing hot from the north at 30 mph.  When I finished I saw two crows standing at midfield so I just went home. My options:

1 find a way to shave 35 seconds off by bama

2 talk him out of racing, using money if necessary

4 feign an injury.  Figuring I could steal a cast off of some teenager at some point

 

i clearly need to start running as these workout videos aren’t doing it

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

2 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Ok guys, trust circle here as you guys have been mostly supportive.   I did the baseline test this morning and I’m pretty disappointed and you guys will be disappointed.  100 seconds.  Now this was an unofficial surface and distance.   The Santa Ana winds were blowing hot from the north at 30 mph.  When I finished I saw two crows standing at midfield so I just went home. My options:

1 find a way to shave 35 seconds off by bama

2 talk him out of racing, using money if necessary

4 feign an injury.  Figuring I could steal a cast off of some teenager at some point

 

i clearly need to start running as these workout videos aren’t doing it

Disappointed? No. Realistic about your outcome if you had told me you were doing this today? You bet.

First off: Unknown surface and more importantly, when you say unofficial distance--what is your method for determining accuracy? Eyeball it?

Second, the wind matters somewhat on a north-south oriented track, but even then-during a race everyone has to deal with it. That's why shorter runners tuck in behind the taller ones. If you're talking about it affecting your time since 30 mph is strong, then drop a little off the time today if you were heading into it the whole time. If it was at your back and you're disappointed you weren't faster, it was a guesstimated 400 meters, not a one way marathon.

Next, 1:40 is slower than average if you're around or approaching age 40, but you explained that you don't run if I recall? There really is no substitute for it if running is what you're trying to do. I mean cross training for injured runners is common--swimming, biking, etc to take stress off of a joint, but to race well, one really does need to run well.

You're right though, around 30 seconds faster to hit in the vicinity of average male times for not quite(?) middle aged guys would be optimal.  35 seconds off is a 1:05, and that may seem slow to you, but if I were you, I'd make that your reach goal and work up to it. I mean, aiming for a 1:10 is not wimping out. And since I can't recall exactly how old you are, that is likely on the faster side. Lot of regular every day guys in this country that run several times a week can probably chrono at 1:20 if you grabbed one of them and stuck him in an all comer's meet. Hard to say because fitness is more than just age and perceived healthiness.

Start your conditioning (now) that was mentioned in earlier posts or perhaps forfeit to your opponent. You sound like you aren't really interested in it, and without the motivation to do so, it won't be much fun. I believe you're capable of dropping time and having a good race but you don't want to be fighting with yourself the whole time. Counter productive. Good luck and peace.

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Mrs Whiggins
added some.

[closetohumping 17,442]

5 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Disappointed? No. Realistic about your outcome if you had told me you were doing this today? You bet.

First off: Unknown surface and more importantly, when you say unofficial distance--what is your method for determining accuracy? Eyeball it?

Second, the wind matters somewhat on a north-south oriented track, but even then-during a race everyone has to deal with it. That's why shorter runners tuck in behind the taller ones. If you're talking about it affecting your time since 30 mph is strong, then drop a little off the time today if you were heading into it the whole time. If it was at your back and you're disappointed you weren't faster, it was a guesstimated 400 meters, not a one way marathon.

Next, 1:40 is slower than average if you're around or approaching age 40, but you explained that you don't run if I recall? There really is no substitute for it if running is what you're trying to do. I mean cross training for injured runners is common--swimming, biking, etc to take stress off of a joint, but to race well, one really does need to run well.

You're right though, around 30 seconds faster to hit in the vicinity of average male times for not quite(?) middle aged guys would be optimal.  35 seconds off is a 1:05, and that may seem slow to you, but if I were you, I'd make that your reach goal and work up to it. I mean, aiming for a 1:10 is not wimping out. And since I can't recall exactly how old you are, that is likely on the faster side. Lot of regular every day guys in this country that run several times a week can probably chrono at 1:20 if you grabbed one of them and stuck him in an all comer's meet. Hard to say because fitness is more than just age and perceived healthiness.

Start your conditioning (now) that was mentioned in earlier posts or perhaps forfeit to your opponent. You sound like you aren't really interested in it, and without the motivation to do so, it won't be much fun. I believe you're capable of dropping time and having a good race but you don't want to be fighting with yourself the whole time. Counter productive. Good luck and peace.

 

 

 

Thanks.  The forfeiting comment was tongue in cheek. I have 8 months.  As mentioned above it’s a conditioning issue.  I need to start putting miles in and that may make it easier.  Yes the 400 is a sprint but conditioning will be as big a factor as natural speed.   I’m going to incorporate a couple of days of running in.  Got time and I sense that he’s not taking this seriously 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

Just now, closetohumping said:

Thanks.  The forfeiting comment was tongue in cheek. I have 8 months.  As mentioned above it’s a conditioning issue.  I need to start putting miles in and that may make it easier.  Yes the 400 is a sprint but conditioning will be as big a factor as natural speed.   I’m going to incorporate a couple of days of running in.  Got time and I sense that he’s not taking this seriously 

 

Yes it's a conditioning issue, I agree.

I hope I didn't come across as condescending, it wasn't my intent and I'm bad with tone in text, so apologies.

 

[Jiggy-Z 3,432]

3 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Ok guys, trust circle here as you guys have been mostly supportive.   I did the baseline test this morning and I’m pretty disappointed and you guys will be disappointed.  100 seconds.  Now this was an unofficial surface and distance.   The Santa Ana winds were blowing hot from the north at 30 mph.  When I finished I saw two crows standing at midfield so I just went home. My options:

1 find a way to shave 35 seconds off by bama

2 talk him out of racing, using money if necessary

4 feign an injury.  Figuring I could steal a cast off of some teenager at some point

 

i clearly need to start running as these workout videos aren’t doing it

That is not bad at all, given no prior training, and the fact that you have 8 months to do this.

The track can be kind of intimidating because there are strict times, you can see the finish line that never seems to get there as fast as you want, wind is always a factor, the curves zap your momentum etc.

Once you get your couple of months in with jogging with your dog, spend some time on the track.  This familiarity will pay big dividends, even if you are just jogging.

Don't be afraid of this distance.

When I was training for the mile back in my early 30's, I was deathly afraid of the track.  I started running 8 sets of 1:15 quarters with a quarter of walking in between and was absolutely gassed doing that only once a week.  After about a month, I was still gassed but I noticed, I was no longer running those 400s at 1:15 but at 1:07-1:10.

Then about at that same time, my Tuesday running group decided to to do timed 400's kind of like a race, and I ran my 400 at :58 and it didn't even feel like I was breathing hard.  From that point on, I no longer feared the track, but looked forward to track work outs, because I saw the positives in it:  Which are: 1. You can run at close to your maximum without having to worry about saving it for later. 2. You can take as much rest as you need before the next go. 3. You will actually get faster during the workout. 4. You can scale up or down to the 800 or 200 very easily. 4 It is a quick run and you can adjust for any tactical failures in subsequent reps. 5. You actually get better at that distance very quickly.

Training for the 400 should be really fun.  In fact, I wish more people would make resolutions to run faster and better rather than, say, train for the 10K or marathon.

 

[TexasEd 8,067]

Following.

 

This may actually motivate me so people don't describe me as "skinny fat"

[Slacks 6,821]

holy shit... i want to do this.... not for money, but to see how less out of shape I can become... and to see if my fucking hamstrings will regenerate.

[UT_OB1 2,224]

Honestly, 90 seconds sounds great for not running and assuming you’re around 40.  Even if you’re in shape because you lift weights and walk or some other low impact cardio, a lot of people would go out there and cramp up around 250-300 and fail to finish. 

[closetohumping 17,442]

31 minutes ago, Snacks said:

holy shit... i want to do this.... not for money, but to see how less out of shape I can become... and to see if my fucking hamstrings will regenerate.

Find a loud mouth, fat friend that will challenge your manhood.  That's what happened to me.

 

 

Also, to answer a few comments above.  It was 104 seconds, which is about 40 seconds more than my high school years I think.  I also did a 100 just for shits and giggles and it was 16 ish, which is, well, I think speed walkers can beat that time.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

1 hour ago, Jiggy-Z said:

That is not bad at all, given no prior training, and the fact that you have 8 months to do this.

The track can be kind of intimidating because there are strict times, you can see the finish line that never seems to get there as fast as you want, wind is always a factor, the curves zap your momentum etc.

Once you get your couple of months in with jogging with your dog, spend some time on the track.  This familiarity will pay big dividends, even if you are just jogging.

Don't be afraid of this distance.

When I was training for the mile back in my early 30's, I was deathly afraid of the track.  I started running 8 sets of 1:15 quarters with a quarter of walking in between and was absolutely gassed doing that only once a week.  After about a month, I was still gassed but I noticed, I was no longer running those 400s at 1:15 but at 1:07-1:10.

Then about at that same time, my Tuesday running group decided to to do timed 400's kind of like a race, and I ran my 400 at :58 and it didn't even feel like I was breathing hard.  From that point on, I no longer feared the track, but looked forward to track work outs, because I saw the positives in it:  Which are: 1. You can run at close to your maximum without having to worry about saving it for later. 2. You can take as much rest as you need before the next go. 3. You will actually get faster during the workout. 4. You can scale up or down to the 800 or 200 very easily. 4 It is a quick run and you can adjust for any tactical failures in subsequent reps. 5. You actually get better at that distance very quickly.

Training for the 400 should be really fun.  In fact, I wish more people would make resolutions to run faster and better rather than, say, train for the 10K or marathon.

 

All good comments here. 200 repeats are great, can't say I enjoyed them but they do have benefits.

 

 

 

[Slacks 6,821]

1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

Find a loud mouth, fat friend that will challenge your manhood.  That's what happened to me.

 

 

Also, to answer a few comments above.  It was 104 seconds, which is about 40 seconds more than my high school years I think.  I also did a 100 just for shits and giggles and it was 16 ish, which is, well, I think speed walkers can beat that time.

104?! That's a 1:44. Did you run the whole thing?

You ran a 16s 100m, but then ran your 100m splits at 26s for the 400m.

You either jogged or were REALLY REALLY gassed for the last 150m. 

You're going to improve significantly just by training 2x a week.

Let's go!

[closetohumping 17,442]

5 minutes ago, Snacks said:

104?! That's a 1:44. Did you run the whole thing?

You ran a 16s 100m, but then ran your 100m splits at 26s for the 400m.

You either jogged or were REALLY REALLY gassed for the last 150m. 

You're going to improve significantly just by training 2x a week.

Let's go!

So, I feel like, I may have subconsciously not sprinted the 400m at all, as in, better save some energy.   Second half of the workouts I just ran 50 and coasted 50 as someone above recommended.

[Deej 76,800]

[washparkhorn 9,939]

Develop the proper mindset for achieving  these goals:

1. Develop your explosiveness and power so that it is superior to the other athletes that you will be competing against. 

2. Develop your speed endurance so that you can run at a more intense speed for a longer amount of time. 

3. Develop your sprinting form and technique so that you can run as efficiently as possible. 

Please pay attention to point number 3.  As you develop your conditioning, you want to minimize the amount of wasted energy so you can run more efficiently, at a higher intensity.

https://www.fastrunning.club/category/400m-training/
 

Now go get some proper shoes. 
 

Edited January 11, 2022 by washparkhorn

[closetohumping 17,442]

29 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Develop the proper mindset for achieving  these goals:

1. Develop your explosiveness and power so that it is superior to the other athletes that you will be competing against. 

2. Develop your speed endurance so that you can run at a more intense speed for a longer amount of time. 

3. Develop your sprinting form and technique so that you can run as efficiently as possible. 

Please pay attention to point number 3.  As you develop your conditioning, you want to minimize the amount of wasted energy so you can run more efficiently, at a higher intensity.

https://www.fastrunning.club/category/400m-training/
 

Now go get some proper shoes. 
 

Those look pretty tight.   I got some Nike air max.  Burn orange edition but may invest in those 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

2 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

Now go get some proper shoes.

If you're going all in with spikes for speed to drop time, you've got to go all in. Super spikes:

https://www.umass.edu/news/article/whats-science-behind-tracks-new-super-spikes

https://www.wsj.com/articles/nike-vaporfly-victory-super-spikes-so-fast-rivals-wearing-them-11623640980

 

If you haven't worn spikes since hs, be careful. My second oldest suffered a fracture due to his spikes.

[washparkhorn 9,939]

Thanks @Mrs Whiggins    A 4% reduction the in the metabolic cost of running is significant and quite an advantage for the runner. CTH is going to dominate.

Research taking place at CU Boulder;

 

[UT_OB1 2,224]

I like how the thread moved from cautioning him to take it slow for months - some even saying to just walk to get a baseline - to pushing him to buy spikes meant to help trained athletes squeeze a few more percent at peak performance. True Surely spirit here. 

[deadshank 24,653]

He gonna need lots of kinesiology  tape, too.  
 

Just to look cool.   

[hookemATL 11,739]

Remember, the only difference between you and Usain Bolt is natural athletic talent and a lifetime of strict training on the track.  You can do this!

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

18 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

I like how the thread moved from cautioning him to take it slow for months - some even saying to just walk to get a baseline - to pushing him to buy spikes meant to help trained athletes squeeze a few more percent at peak performance. True Surely spirit here. 

He should take it slow, and you're correct--spikes aren't necessary and can cause injury even in young athletes for a variety of reasons. However,  ctj can also throw caution to the wind to get that Surly psyche out advantage if he wants to go that route. Show up in lycra with sleeves and show out.

Of course, the opposite side of the coin-- one of the better Master's runners in the Midwest showed up for a meet wearing some ancient mustard colored tights, a stretched out singlet of dubious age and a headband. The young studs were smirking at him and he was entered in an open age group. He smoked everybody. I can't recall what uni he had run for back in the day, but he was so nonchalant about it and the older folks who knew him and had kept quiet were ribbing my male friends pretty hard. Guy sure did have some wheels. Now I'm getting old and I can't remember his name. Will have to see if I can bring it to mind.

 

 

[closetohumping 17,442]

2 hours ago, UT_OB1 said:

I like how the thread moved from cautioning him to take it slow for months - some even saying to just walk to get a baseline - to pushing him to buy spikes meant to help trained athletes squeeze a few more percent at peak performance. True Surely spirit here. 

This thread, and the posters in it fuck

2 hours ago, deadshank said:

He gonna need lots of kinesiology  tape, too.  
 

Just to look cool.   

Goes w/o saying.

1 hour ago, hookemATL said:

Remember, the only difference between you and Usain Bolt is natural athletic talent and a lifetime of strict training on the track.  You can do this!

That pussy can't run the 400.  That's why he's hanging out in the 100.

[Jiggy-Z 3,432]

12 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

If you're going all in with spikes for speed to drop time, you've got to go all in. Super spikes:

https://www.umass.edu/news/article/whats-science-behind-tracks-new-super-spikes

https://www.wsj.com/articles/nike-vaporfly-victory-super-spikes-so-fast-rivals-wearing-them-11623640980

 

If you haven't worn spikes since hs, be careful. My second oldest suffered a fracture due to his spikes.

All kidding aside, I'm going to go ahead and say spikes are completely unnecessary for this race.

I will say though that Air Max's are not the best option either, at least as you approach more 400 specific training.  In time the Air Max's will  begin to wear out, and at that time should be replaced with something between a minimalist running shoe and a full cushy heel shoe.  Pretty middle of the road type of shoe that is light...and for you, you should race in the shoe that you trained in just for familiarity.

Case in point:  Above I mentioned that I had a timed 400 at :58 seconds in my early 30's at the beginning of my mile training.  I did another timed 400 about 1 week before the race and did it in :49 seconds while wearing just a pair of Nike Air Bowerman(inexpensive middle of the road shoe) series training shoes(and some shorts), that I ended up purchasing one day because I somehow forgot my other running shoes.

I trained in the 200 as well with rep times of 23-24 seconds and can honestly say I have never worn spikes in my life.  Also never even came close to getting injured.

 

[Jiggy-Z 3,432]

On 12/19/2021 at 11:37 AM, closetohumping said:

The hero:

I'm just a little guy.  5'9"170, same weight I was in high school, only a lot softer.  Drink most nights, though I suspect he does as well.  Did play football in a small Texas town but was not a noteworthy athlete, ie couldn't start at a 3A school.  I'd like to think I workout 3-4 times a week.  Workouts include light weights, walking my dogs and a subscription to Beachbody workout platform, where I usually quit about half way through the videos while following the "modifier," usually played by a middle-aged, endomorphic white woman.  He's on record as saying that he has no plans to workout at all.

I went back and pulled this up, just in case the Surl forgot our hero's vitals.

The good news is that to be at pretty much optimal training weight you only need to drop about 10lbs.

If you take this halfway seriously, I think you can break the 1:00 mark.

[closetohumping 17,442]

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

2 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

All kidding aside, I'm going to go ahead and say spikes are completely unnecessary for this race.

Of course they're not necessary. He could train, race, and win with a pair of mid price trainers, split shorts, and a chrono watch, never mind a smart phone and spikes. But it's  Surly to smack talk (XC/TF/running in this case) mixed in with practical info. Like @deadshanksays, ctj can sort it out w/o too much trouble.

 

Those super-spikes are sweet though. Asics fit my feet better, but Nike has always had an eye for technocool.

 

 

 

[HornOnTheBayou 8,931]

I would also suggest investing in a Theragun or some other massage gun. Mine has done wonders for sore legs after a run. And I get the feeling you'll be aching in muscles you never realized you could ache in.

[Horn of Gabriel 1,614]

[Slacks 6,821]

3 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

All kidding aside, I'm going to go ahead and say spikes are completely unnecessary for this race.

I will say though that Air Max's are not the best option either, at least as you approach more 400 specific training.  In time the Air Max's will  begin to wear out, and at that time should be replaced with something between a minimalist running shoe and a full cushy heel shoe.  Pretty middle of the road type of shoe that is light...and for you, you should race in the shoe that you trained in just for familiarity.

Case in point:  Above I mentioned that I had a timed 400 at :58 seconds in my early 30's at the beginning of my mile training.  I did another timed 400 about 1 week before the race and did it in :49 seconds while wearing just a pair of Nike Air Bowerman(inexpensive middle of the road shoe) series training shoes(and some shorts), that I ended up purchasing one day because I somehow forgot my other running shoes.

I trained in the 200 as well with rep times of 23-24 seconds and can honestly say I have never worn spikes in my life.  Also never even came close to getting injured.

 

I see your nice humble brag...  :49.

[Slacks 6,821]

1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

You would be better off running up hills... better on hamstrings, joints, everything... and you won't get laughed at for running :10 in the 50m

[closetohumping 17,442]

8 minutes ago, Snacks said:

You would be better off running up hills... better on hamstrings, joints, everything... and you won't get laughed at for running :10 in the 50m

That's what they said to Thomas Edison too.