no.2 overall recruit in the nation decommits from Florida State to go play for Coach Prime at Jackson State

[SarkAfterDark 1751]

1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

i could not possibly disagree with you more, so no, i don't think we can all agree on that. highly rated prospects flame out all of the time, every single year. the recruiting rankings that come out when guys are actually seniors end up being completely rearranged when viewed again 3-4 years later. every time. being a highly rated recruit doesn't mean jack shit if you don't continue to improve at your craft. major d-1 programs have long, successful track records of developing talent and sending said talent to the next level where they can earn a real living. 1-AA schools do not have such a track record when it comes to developing players. not even remotely close. at all. it's an absolutely stark contrast in this respect. if where you go to college as a top prospect didn't matter then the Bamas and Clemsons and LSUs and Texas's of the world wouldn't dominate recruiting. but they do. for a reason. 

D-1 has a track record because they get all the talent. Same with your example regarding the individual schools. Bama is known as a NFL football factory because their 2 deep is littered with top HS talent. If more nationally ranked kids start going to HBCUs what do you think is going to happen to their NFL pedigree reputation?

Edited December 17, 2021 by SarkAfterDark

[Guest]

2 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

Greg Davis was a terrible play caller, but he was objectively a very good QBs coach. That's not up for debate. Vince Young, the guy who most of us consider to be the best college QB ever, if not the best *player* ever, improved tremendously under GD's tutelage, and he has said so himself many, many times. are you gonna sit here and tell me that VY becomes VY if he goes to Jackson State? seriously? y'all are all seriously going to sit here and take the stance that coaching and competition has zero effect on the growth of a high school kid. wow. just wow. pat yourselves on the fucking back. congrats. you all believe the same completely asinine idea. don't confuse being stupid and illogical in large numbers with being correct.

You may have a point there.  VY damned sure didn't develop against the best in the NFL.

I always took it as another layer of VY's greatness that he carried Greg Davis and Mack to the MNC.  It was absolutely an endictment of Jeff Fisher in how VY's NFL experience went.

I was thinking of another dude with a ( slightly better than Greg Davis) QB track record In Kliff Kingsbury.  Is it his fault Johnny 8-ball was an NFL disaster?  Can he claim that he made Mahomes, from Whitehouse, TX, a meteoric talent at QB? What about Ewok or Baker? They both switched schools in college and thrived, with Baker having left Kliff and Murray thriving under his tutelage as a pro.

Lotsa factors play into it.  In the end, you buy into prestige and "the best somebody can get." Some of us believe in letting the young man make his own path, with that qualifiers that he's keeping it constructive and has considered the differences in his choice. I'm never going to have that conversation when I'm 70 and my kid is 45, " Dad I hated Florida State.  I didn't really want to go there after other things came to light; but you insisted it was the only way to go.  You should have let me make my own choices, so now I'm making one for you.  Enjoy the nursing home from hell..."

Edited December 17, 2021 by slorch

[956 Worldwide 35598]

I agree that the liberal transfer policy is what makes this gamble work. That said, if he plays his career at JSU and performs at a top level, he will almost certainly suffer in the draft as compared to a similar career at a big FBS school. And that is leaving money on the table.

The last time a FCS CB was taken in the first round was 2008– Rodgers-Cromartie. He got there thanks to an amazing Senior Bowl at a 4.29 draft. That’s the type of skill set you need, and luck.
 

By the time the draft rolls around, he will just be a minor interest story (what happened to the former 5*) and to scouts, he’ll just be the Jackson State DB whose film is all against SWAC. Deion being HC will not matter. GMs will err on the side of taking the kid with film against high-level prospects, all else being equal. A player with a similar combine and film from P5 WILL be drafted higher. 
 

It is possible he’s really mature and knows himself and will be more likely to succeed in that type of environment, because success in FCS is for sure better than flameout at P5. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

5 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

Greg Davis was a terrible play caller, but he was objectively a very good QBs coach. That's not up for debate. Vince Young, the guy who most of us consider to be the best college QB ever, if not the best *player* ever, improved tremendously under GD's tutelage, and he has said so himself many, many times. are you gonna sit here and tell me that VY becomes VY if he goes to Jackson State? seriously? y'all are all seriously going to sit here and take the stance that coaching and competition has zero effect on the growth of a high school kid. wow. just wow. pat yourselves on the fucking back. congrats. you all believe the same completely asinine idea. don't confuse being stupid and illogical in large numbers with being correct.

You can’t help but contradict your own points.

If Greg Davis was such a great QB coach VY would have benefitted by being coached by him regardlesss of the school Davis coached at.The competition is less valuable than the quality of the coaching at a certain point .  
 

You still keep ignoring that fact that he can transfer whenever he wants to play against that top notch competition.   
 

kurt Warner has stated much of his later success in the NFL came from playing in arena league ball where he had to make split second decisions about when to throw. He wasn’t  playing against the best competition in that league. He was acquiring a mental skill set that benefitted him when he went to the NFL

[PilotsError 2337]

You people are trying to apply the wisdom and experience of grown ass men to an 18 year old.  He saw the one point five million, saw the bling that Deion always brings with him, and signed.  If FSU had matched or beaten it he's probably a Seminole.  

[Derka _original_ 3]

16 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

this post does not even address the issue at hand, but congrats on winning martyr of the year. the HBCU's you're naming are not the academic equivalent to Jackson State athletics. if they were then you'd have a point, but they aren't, so you don't. going to Xavier for school is not the equivalent of going to Jackson State for football. 

also, seriously, stop making this out to be some attack on HBCU's when it clearly isn't. 

Also also- it's hilarious how many people have pos repped that post. The groupthink is out in full force.

Keep crying. 

[El Diablo 4232]

Question : What is the average HS recruit * rating of players who end up drafted into the NFL. To what extent is their being drafted attributable to their coaching vs the competition they faced in college? 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

36 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

You people are trying to apply the wisdom and experience of grown ass men to an 18 year old.  He saw the one point five million, saw the bling that Deion always brings with him, and signed.  If FSU had matched or beaten it he's probably a Seminole.  

You could be right, and you could be completely wrong, and this kid has thought about what he thinks is the best way to get to the NFL.  Not all kids are just non thinking idiots, like most of us here on Surly probably were, and still are. 

[SimonBolivar 11065]

14 hours ago, Grade of D as in David said:

Is nobody else terrified that derka is mentoring someone?

[Underdog 29201]

1 hour ago, PilotsError said:

You people are trying to apply the wisdom and experience of grown ass men to an 18 year old.  

Pretty sure OP is older than 18, could be wrong though.  

[CheesePie 238]

15 hours ago, Grade of D as in David said:

Is nobody else terrified that derka is mentoring someone?

He's the Jackson State of mentors.

[B00M 6735]

5 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I agree that the liberal transfer policy is what makes this gamble work. That said, if he plays his career at JSU and performs at a top level, he will almost certainly suffer in the draft as compared to a similar career at a big FBS school. And that is leaving money on the table.

The last time a FCS CB was taken in the first round was 2008– Rodgers-Cromartie. He got there thanks to an amazing Senior Bowl at a 4.29 draft. That’s the type of skill set you need, and luck.
 

By the time the draft rolls around, he will just be a minor interest story (what happened to the former 5*) and to scouts, he’ll just be the Jackson State DB whose film is all against SWAC. Deion being HC will not matter. GMs will err on the side of taking the kid with film against high-level prospects, all else being equal. A player with a similar combine and film from P5 WILL be drafted higher. 
 

It is possible he’s really mature and knows himself and will be more likely to succeed in that type of environment, because success in FCS is for sure better than flameout at P5. 

From what I can find Rodgers-Cromartie was a 0 star recruit. Completely unknown. Apples to oranges.

Generic 5 star recruit has a 40% chance of being drafted in 1st 2 rounds and a 40% of being drafted in 7th round or going undrafted. 

I bet most of the undrafted ones suffered injuries in college like Johnathan Gray or Tray Allen (Maybe an eval miss too, but OL eval is way tougher than CB) ...

Then you have the guys that put up lots of bad film at the D1 level like Malik Jefferson. How good would he gave looked vs lesser opponents? He would've popped off the screen. Bad film vs good opponents hurts your stock. Good film vs bad opponents doesn't.

Do we ever see a guy crushing 2A Texas HS football and conclude that he sucks? No. We wonder if what we're seeing will translate and beg him to sign. NFL scouts aren't particularly better.

Are we gonna sit here and pretend players like Mike Davis and Malik Jefferson really maxed out their development potential under superior coaching against better competition? Malcolm Brown? Mason Walters? Steve Edmond? 

I'd argue most if not all of those guys would have made more money from that 1st NFL contract if they'd played lower level college football. 

All a modern 5 star CB has to do is stay healthy, don't get arrested, and run a good 40 at the combine. They will get drafted. Film where they smother scrubs or never get thrown at will in no way hurt their stock. 

 

 

[Royale with cheese 1493]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You could be right, and you could be completely wrong . . . 

 

[Royale with cheese 1493]

Just now, Royale with cheese said:

 

Well, fuck.

[956 Worldwide 35598]

9 minutes ago, B00M said:

From what I can find Rodgers-Cromartie was a 0 star recruit. Completely unknown. Apples to oranges.

Generic 5 star recruit has a 40% chance of being drafted in 1st 2 rounds and a 40% of being drafted in 7th round or going undrafted. 

I bet most of the undrafted ones suffered injuries in college like Johnathan Gray or Tray Allen (Maybe an eval miss too, but OL eval is way tougher than CB) ...

Then you have the guys that put up lots of bad film at the D1 level like Malik Jefferson. How good would he gave looked vs lesser opponents? He would've popped off the screen. Bad film vs good opponents hurts your stock. Good film vs bad opponents doesn't.

Do we ever see a guy crushing 2A Texas HS football and conclude that he sucks? No. We wonder if what we're seeing will translate and beg him to sign. NFL scouts aren't particularly better.

Are we gonna sit here and pretend players like Mike Davis and Malik Jefferson really maxed out their development potential under superior coaching against better competition? Malcolm Brown? Mason Walters? Steve Edmond? 

I'd argue most if not all of those guys would have made more money from that 1st NFL contract if they'd played lower level college football. 

All a modern 5 star CB has to do is stay healthy, don't get arrested, and run a good 40 at the combine. They will get drafted. Film where they smother scrubs or never get thrown at will in no way hurt their stock. 

 

 

This is completely out of sync with how NFL scouts work.  They pore over HOURS of film.  There’s never been a 5* recruit go to FCS, so there is no comparison. But scouts will care more about his competition at the most recent level than his ranking. 

That said, the idea that NFL scouts will care about his high school star ranking is laughable. And there are going to be plenty of DBs with good film and similar combine figures in his class. Any GM will go for the kid with good film against quality competition. 
 

Lots of 5* get drafted, but that’s because most 5* go to good schools and play well. It has nothing to do with their ranking. I think this kid had a good shot to get drafted, but I also think he will easily cost himself half a round in draft positioning just by going FCS. And that’s money. The first contract is vital. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

This is completely out of sync with how NFL scouts work.  They pore over HOURS of film.  There’s never been a 5* recruit go to FCS, so there is no comparison. But scouts will care more about his competition at the most recent level than his ranking. 

That said, the idea that NFL scouts will care about his high school star ranking is laughable. And there are going to be plenty of DBs with good film and similar combine figures in his class. Any GM will go for the kid with good film against quality competition. 
 

Lots of 5* get drafted, but that’s because most 5* go to good schools and play well. It has nothing to do with their ranking. I think this kid had a good shot to get drafted, but I also think he will easily cost himself half a round in draft positioning just by going FCS. And that’s money. The first contract is vital. 

And again, he will probably transfer to a P5 school when it's time to get his draft status jacked up.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, Royale with cheese said:

Well, fuck.

Yes, yes, I see your point........

[B00M 6735]

3 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Lots of 5* get drafted, but that’s because most 5* go to good schools and play well. It has nothing to do with their ranking. I think this kid had a good shot to get drafted, but I also think he will easily cost himself half a round in draft positioning just by going FCS. And that’s money. The first contract is vital. 

I'll agree with this. He's lowering his draft ceiling but raising his draft floor. 

[Gene Parmesan 4064]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And again, he will probably transfer to a P5 school when it's time to get his draft status jacked up.

Most likely and probably sooner rather than later because someone will give Dieon a P5 job pretty soon pulling talent like this.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

8 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Most likely and probably sooner rather than later because someone will give Dieon a P5 job pretty soon pulling talent like this.

IF he can win.

[trza-hawk 269]

 

[HeHateMe 916]

Derka…why are you so passionate and why do you pretend to know what’s best for this kid?  Is it because you mentored a “high D-1 athlete “?  What was your pinnacle of athletic success that would make you such an expert in choosing from an endless number of offers?  I will never pretend to know what it’s like to be an 18 year old black kid with 5 stars and a million dollar NIL deal waiting.  I was a white safety with 9 offers.  2 P5, a handful of G5 and two 1AA (one was a HBCU).  I signed to play at a G5 school, because I wanted to see the field.  I could have gone to UVA and received a much superior education, but I didn’t want to back up an all American.  I wanted to see the field.  My point is, don’t try to get in this kids head, he’s 18 and is doing what he think is best for him.  I have a feeling that things will work out ok for him.  And if they don’t, at least he chose his own path.  I still wish I had that UVA degree, but I’ve managed to be successful without it.  Things happen how they should, so don’t get so worked up about the decision of a kid that you’ve never met.  He will be ok.

[Porteroso 0]

I love how the UT kings of the NIL are trying to convince themselves that great talent can't survive outside blueblood. NFL scouts will just see their competition, they will forget the "generational talent" out of high school, oh yeah the HOURS of film wont be enough to get this guy drafted. 

Face it, NIL means anyone can go anywhere deep pockets exist. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

what an athlete:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CXpGk81v1Q0/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

[bornbama1 106]

On 12/17/2021 at 8:02 PM, trza-hawk said:

 

Lord I hope not. Deion was a great player, may turn out to be a great coach but he seems to have a huge ego.

Saban is 70, at that age five more years coaching is a long time with the grind. I expect he doesn't live long once he's done coaching. By that time I might feel differently about "Coach Prime".

[FOXHOUND 1182]

Good for this kid. As a Cornerback he has the opportunity to be under the direct tutelage of the GOAT CB in Prime. The "he's getting paid" argument falls on deaf ears to me, he would have been getting deals at any P5 school. Deion has the gift of gab, and once he got that kid to do his visit during Jackson St's homecoming weekend it was a wrap, an HBCU homecoming is an experience.

 

I wish more blue chip athletes would go to HBCUs, and more former high profile pro players would coach there. It's time to start pumping these institutions.

[DDD Dad 14655]

3 hours ago, FOXHOUND said:

Good for this kid. As a Cornerback he has the opportunity to be under the direct tutelage of the GOAT CB in Prime. The "he's getting paid" argument falls on deaf ears to me, he would have been getting deals at any P5 school. Deion has the gift of gab, and once he got that kid to do his visit during Jackson St's homecoming weekend it was a wrap, an HBCU homecoming is an experience.

 

I wish more blue chip athletes would go to HBCUs, and more former high profile pro players would coach there. It's time to start pumping these institutions.

If nothing else it would make for more entertaining halftime shows if they could get air time. 

[tbone_ 14455]

Lord I hope not. Deion was a great player, may turn out to be a great coach but he seems to have a huge ego.
Saban is 70, at that age five more years coaching is a long time with the grind. I expect he doesn't live long once he's done coaching. By that time I might feel differently about "Coach Prime".

Seems?

[Underdog 29201]

Like Saban doesn’t have a huge ego himself…. FOH with that nonsense. 

[Helobious 9823]

@shadow_operative well now he’ll have another elite WR to line up against in practice everyday. 
 

 

[Pam Cummings 9882]

I just cant shake the feeling that Deion is a snake oil salesman type of guy. Dude just seems slimy to me and always will.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Pam Cummings

[Vertigo 20500]

13 minutes ago, Helobious said:

@shadow_operative well now he’ll have another elite WR to line up against in practice everyday. 
 

 

lol If Deion can pull 4 and 5 stars to Jackson State, then SMU or TCU needs to be beating down his door. 

[52-80 19377]

On 12/19/2021 at 12:34 AM, shadow_operative said:

what an athlete:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CXpGk81v1Q0/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

Holy shit

[shadow_operative 15932]

The one thing i will say is that I know that Deion is a very demanding coach who tries to create a very professional, NFL-like environment, as far as it's needed anyway (they are still kids after all). if spends Hunter spends one year at Jackson State learning from Deion and maturing, and then transfers to Bama or LSU or something then that is a pretty great deal. if he stays any more than one year then that gets dicey for me. 

[Helobious 9823]

1 hour ago, Vertigo said:

lol If Deion can pull 4 and 5 stars to Jackson State, then SMU or TCU needs to be beating down his door. 

If I’m an AD I’d at least like to see how the next 2 years play out. If they’re both 10 win seasons and he keeps getting big time recruits that’ll quell a lot of doubt.

[quigley 1565]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

I just cant shake the feeling that Deion is a snake oil salesman type of guy. Dude just seems slimy to me and always will.

What's special about Deion? Aren't all college football coaches snake oil salemen?

I listen to OU podcasts where players hint at the same stuff this guy at Ohio State is talking about. I doubt Geogia or FSU or even UT are different.

 

[Horn21 175]

The one thing i will say is that I know that Deion is a very demanding coach who tries to create a very professional, NFL-like environment, as far as it's needed anyway (they are still kids after all). if spends Hunter spends one year at Jackson State learning from Deion and maturing, and then transfers to Bama or LSU or something then that is a pretty great deal. if he stays any more than one year then that gets dicey for me. 

Sounds like you’re pretty cool with him wasting a year of his life competing against inferior talent while surrounded by scrub teammates after all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[quigley 1565]

1 hour ago, Vertigo said:

lol If Deion can pull 4 and 5 stars to Jackson State, then SMU or TCU needs to be beating down his door. 

 

6 minutes ago, Helobious said:

If I’m an AD I’d at least like to see how the next 2 years play out. If they’re both 10 win seasons and he keeps getting big time recruits that’ll quell a lot of doubt.

There was some buzz about TCU and Sanders, and the Frogs should've jumped. Super high upside coach for a TCU program that wasn't a shambles. He's proven he's at least competent. Jackson St was 24-40 over their last 3 coaches (all with losing records). Deion's 13-4. Going after Sanders would be a high upside play, and a ACC (Georgia Tech?) or SEC team (Auburn?) sure do it. I think he'd be terrific at either of those places.